Well giggs appointment as assistant manager and the fact LVG has asked all age groups plays the same system points at a long term approach.
Well giggs appointment as assistant manager and the fact LVG has asked all age groups plays the same system points at a long term approach.
----------------------------------------
These are good signs and I'm encouraged that LVG is by nature someone who likes to look at the long term.
Hopefully the OP didn't come across as a 'woe is us' piece. I think the instability in decision making partly explains our current situation but also why we're probably going to improve the longer LVG has to work with us.
I do think that it could be useful for the club to look at ways to systematise long-termism, rather than relying on individual personalities to take that view. Or at least to make sure, if LVG's 'philosophy' proves a success at United, that the man to take over from him subscribes to it too.
I can see this article has really struck a chord.
Can't think why it's quiet on this board today...
If today's criteria for success were applied Ferguson would have been sacked. That's the way the world is now. LVG will probably get the same leeway as Moyes. No CL no job.
Prior to us starting to spend this Summer, 'warchest'. amounts were being banded around. 100 million, even 200 million.
I don't think many of us believed that amount was available with a few thinking 60-70 million might be.
The player positions many thought needed strengthening were. CB, LB, CM, the wing
So far:
CB Rojo 21m (partly Nani's wages if true)
LB Shaw 27m
CM Herrera 30m
Wing: Di Maria 59m
Now. If someone suggested in June that the above would be our incoming transfers this season, I think there would be a fair few of us that would have claimed there was no way we would buy all those players. No way would we have that amount to spend.
£137,000,000 on top of the £37,000,000 spent in January
That is 174 million spent in 2014.
I think the three issues are that
1. We have become a little greedy in our expectations in a single window as the window heads on (me included)
2. We haven't been able to offload the players that potentially need to be offloaded
3. The CM is still missing a beast
This wndow has been far from a disaster. We have discovered that: Workd class players still want to come and, as Ed stated, we have the money to be able to bring them in.
Of course there is long term planning RR, certainly in terms of tactics (which I'm not particularly liking atm but that's not to suggest I know more than LVG and can really claim they are wrong) but also this window so far certainly shows me there is also a shot term splurge going on, that may be completed in january, that is trying to get us back competetive almost immediately.
If Vidal does somehow come in this week.This will go down as one of the best windows ever, if not THE best
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
I can see this article has really struck a chord.
Can't think why it's quiet on this board today...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought it would be in meltdown
If Moyes was still manager, and last night had happened under him, this article would probably already be on page 2
Kamikaze
That's probably true. And with the stakes so high it's probably justifiable. However, clubs should also recognise the value in minimising the disruptive effects of transitions, and in making timely investments to renew a team to avoid having to make radical, expensive changes at regular intervals.
City seem to be a good example of achieving this via the structure of the club and director of football. United having the better of Chelsea from 2006 to 2013, while the latter executed managers every season is another good example, where success relies on a stable manager with a strong relationship with his MD.
Honestly I dont like the fact we have spent so much in this window,it just doesn't feel the 'United way' but obviously that point of view is based on the stability that went before it.
If Vidal does somehow come in this week.This will go down as one of the best windows ever, if not THE best
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
only if hes fit macca and there seems to be a lot of speculation surronding his long term fitness
Macca (referring to your first post), I'm certainly not saying there isn't long-term planning going on now. I'm saying there has been something of a dislocation of planning as a result of changing managers twice. Essentially, we are now setting down NEW long-term plans from scratch. We're suffering from the breakdown that inevitably occurs when Fergie leaves and the new script is ripped up less than a year later (and of course from bad decisions made by Fergie and Moyes, some of which may have been long-term in conception but still wrong).
One thing I'd like to add is something I mentioned early on in Moyes tenure too
Our squad, minus the new signings, are no doubt hearing about everything that is being said. Which players are being sold on or should be sold on. Who is utter 'trash'. Who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt. United need a rebuild, the players arnt good enough.
I'm fairy sure in odd cases, that will be having a negative affect on performances, particularly if said player has already been told they can leave Welbeck? Clevs? Chich? Ando? Kagawa?
Burnley suddenly looks a huge game for United. Lose that and the pressure really starts
comment by Wing_Genius_John_Aston (U19099)
posted 5 minutes ago
Honestly I dont like the fact we have spent so much in this window,it just doesn't feel the 'United way' but obviously that point of view is based on the stability that went before it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wing
Fergie left us in a position that we needed a short term splurge
It won't be needed every Summer
Honestly I dont like the fact we have spent so much in this window,it just doesn't feel the 'United way' but obviously that point of view is based on the stability that went before it.
----------------------------------------
I'd be more uncomfortable with it if I didn't have the feeling that a lot of improvements ought to have been made a long time ago. This partly links to the point about long-termism. Had we bought outstanding younger players and groomed them to take over / had we dealt with the CM timebomb a few years ago, we wouldn't be in the position of playing catch-up now.
At this point I don't know whether we can afford to take relative gambles on unpolished possible gems.
comment by roonited (U11635)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Vidal does somehow come in this week.This will go down as one of the best windows ever, if not THE best
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
only if hes fit macca and there seems to be a lot of speculation surronding his long term fitness
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if not, this has still been a pretty good window
We have strengthened every position that needed it despite a little more still being needed in a couple of areas
People need to be honest with themselves. Back in June, do you really believe in your wildest dreams we would have added Shaw Herrera and Di Maria on top of a CB that played in the WC final?
Even if not, this has still been a pretty good window
------------------
I should state that only refers to incoming transfers
Whilst nobody can dismiss di Maria's abilities as a winger many on here wanted a top CB and at least 1 top CM. Have we got those this window?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
Macca (referring to your first post), I'm certainly not saying there isn't long-term planning going on now. I'm saying there has been something of a dislocation of planning as a result of changing managers twice. Essentially, we are now setting down NEW long-term plans from scratch. We're suffering from the breakdown that inevitably occurs when Fergie leaves and the new script is ripped up less than a year later (and of course from bad decisions made by Fergie and Moyes, some of which may have been long-term in conception but still wrong).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR
Oh I know what you mean RR.
For me, the preparation for Fergie leaving (and Gill) was as shoddy as it could have been.
We have suffered as a result.
And then the timing of Moyes sacking was horrendous with his replacement having to work elsewhere in the Summer.
Fergie final years were mainly about the short time and we are currently suffering the consequences
comment by Reddevils double (U12215)
posted 10 minutes ago
Whilst nobody can dismiss di Maria's abilities as a winger many on here wanted a top CB and at least 1 top CM. Have we got those this window?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you asking the OP that
Can't you make your own mind up?
Macca - I didn't ask anybody In particular. You made a statement and I asked a question off the back of it. Wasn't aimed at anybody in particular. I'm Interested in the opinion of others.
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Reddevils double (U12215)
posted 10 minutes ago
Whilst nobody can dismiss di Maria's abilities as a winger many on here wanted a top CB and at least 1 top CM. Have we got those this window?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you asking the OP that
Can't you make your own mind up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was more of a rhetorical question. We haven't really. We have obviously unproved our midfield with the addition of Herrera, but he's not what you would call one of the top midfielders. CB - no.
My view of the window so far: we have strengthened in all of the areas we needed to, and ideally we should strengthen more in midfield. One more CM and I'd see it as a very good summer's business. Stay as we are and I'd say we have made steps in the right direction.
Not overly fussed about another CB if we can get the midfield beast we need playing in front of them
I have faith in Jones Smalling and Rojo, particularly in a 433
Not overly fussed about another CB if we can get the midfield beast we need playing in front of them
-----------------------------
I wouldn't be at all upset if we bought a world class centre back but I too still see CM as the big priority.
RR / beers - agreed. Still not quite there at CB or CM and considering these were the priorities for many this window (as well as a LB) I am reluctant as I'm sure many would be to say this window has been beyond our wildest dreams.
Sign in if you want to comment
Stability
Page 1 of 4
posted on 27/8/14
Well giggs appointment as assistant manager and the fact LVG has asked all age groups plays the same system points at a long term approach.
posted on 27/8/14
Well giggs appointment as assistant manager and the fact LVG has asked all age groups plays the same system points at a long term approach.
----------------------------------------
These are good signs and I'm encouraged that LVG is by nature someone who likes to look at the long term.
Hopefully the OP didn't come across as a 'woe is us' piece. I think the instability in decision making partly explains our current situation but also why we're probably going to improve the longer LVG has to work with us.
I do think that it could be useful for the club to look at ways to systematise long-termism, rather than relying on individual personalities to take that view. Or at least to make sure, if LVG's 'philosophy' proves a success at United, that the man to take over from him subscribes to it too.
posted on 27/8/14
I can see this article has really struck a chord.
Can't think why it's quiet on this board today...
posted on 27/8/14
If today's criteria for success were applied Ferguson would have been sacked. That's the way the world is now. LVG will probably get the same leeway as Moyes. No CL no job.
posted on 27/8/14
Prior to us starting to spend this Summer, 'warchest'. amounts were being banded around. 100 million, even 200 million.
I don't think many of us believed that amount was available with a few thinking 60-70 million might be.
The player positions many thought needed strengthening were. CB, LB, CM, the wing
So far:
CB Rojo 21m (partly Nani's wages if true)
LB Shaw 27m
CM Herrera 30m
Wing: Di Maria 59m
Now. If someone suggested in June that the above would be our incoming transfers this season, I think there would be a fair few of us that would have claimed there was no way we would buy all those players. No way would we have that amount to spend.
£137,000,000 on top of the £37,000,000 spent in January
That is 174 million spent in 2014.
I think the three issues are that
1. We have become a little greedy in our expectations in a single window as the window heads on (me included)
2. We haven't been able to offload the players that potentially need to be offloaded
3. The CM is still missing a beast
This wndow has been far from a disaster. We have discovered that: Workd class players still want to come and, as Ed stated, we have the money to be able to bring them in.
Of course there is long term planning RR, certainly in terms of tactics (which I'm not particularly liking atm but that's not to suggest I know more than LVG and can really claim they are wrong) but also this window so far certainly shows me there is also a shot term splurge going on, that may be completed in january, that is trying to get us back competetive almost immediately.
If Vidal does somehow come in this week.This will go down as one of the best windows ever, if not THE best
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 minutes ago
I can see this article has really struck a chord.
Can't think why it's quiet on this board today...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought it would be in meltdown
If Moyes was still manager, and last night had happened under him, this article would probably already be on page 2
posted on 27/8/14
Kamikaze
That's probably true. And with the stakes so high it's probably justifiable. However, clubs should also recognise the value in minimising the disruptive effects of transitions, and in making timely investments to renew a team to avoid having to make radical, expensive changes at regular intervals.
City seem to be a good example of achieving this via the structure of the club and director of football. United having the better of Chelsea from 2006 to 2013, while the latter executed managers every season is another good example, where success relies on a stable manager with a strong relationship with his MD.
posted on 27/8/14
Honestly I dont like the fact we have spent so much in this window,it just doesn't feel the 'United way' but obviously that point of view is based on the stability that went before it.
posted on 27/8/14
If Vidal does somehow come in this week.This will go down as one of the best windows ever, if not THE best
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
only if hes fit macca and there seems to be a lot of speculation surronding his long term fitness
posted on 27/8/14
Macca (referring to your first post), I'm certainly not saying there isn't long-term planning going on now. I'm saying there has been something of a dislocation of planning as a result of changing managers twice. Essentially, we are now setting down NEW long-term plans from scratch. We're suffering from the breakdown that inevitably occurs when Fergie leaves and the new script is ripped up less than a year later (and of course from bad decisions made by Fergie and Moyes, some of which may have been long-term in conception but still wrong).
posted on 27/8/14
One thing I'd like to add is something I mentioned early on in Moyes tenure too
Our squad, minus the new signings, are no doubt hearing about everything that is being said. Which players are being sold on or should be sold on. Who is utter 'trash'. Who doesn't deserve to wear the shirt. United need a rebuild, the players arnt good enough.
I'm fairy sure in odd cases, that will be having a negative affect on performances, particularly if said player has already been told they can leave Welbeck? Clevs? Chich? Ando? Kagawa?
Burnley suddenly looks a huge game for United. Lose that and the pressure really starts
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Wing_Genius_John_Aston (U19099)
posted 5 minutes ago
Honestly I dont like the fact we have spent so much in this window,it just doesn't feel the 'United way' but obviously that point of view is based on the stability that went before it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wing
Fergie left us in a position that we needed a short term splurge
It won't be needed every Summer
posted on 27/8/14
Honestly I dont like the fact we have spent so much in this window,it just doesn't feel the 'United way' but obviously that point of view is based on the stability that went before it.
----------------------------------------
I'd be more uncomfortable with it if I didn't have the feeling that a lot of improvements ought to have been made a long time ago. This partly links to the point about long-termism. Had we bought outstanding younger players and groomed them to take over / had we dealt with the CM timebomb a few years ago, we wouldn't be in the position of playing catch-up now.
At this point I don't know whether we can afford to take relative gambles on unpolished possible gems.
posted on 27/8/14
comment by roonited (U11635)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Vidal does somehow come in this week.This will go down as one of the best windows ever, if not THE best
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
only if hes fit macca and there seems to be a lot of speculation surronding his long term fitness
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if not, this has still been a pretty good window
We have strengthened every position that needed it despite a little more still being needed in a couple of areas
People need to be honest with themselves. Back in June, do you really believe in your wildest dreams we would have added Shaw Herrera and Di Maria on top of a CB that played in the WC final?
posted on 27/8/14
Even if not, this has still been a pretty good window
------------------
I should state that only refers to incoming transfers
posted on 27/8/14
Whilst nobody can dismiss di Maria's abilities as a winger many on here wanted a top CB and at least 1 top CM. Have we got those this window?
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 minutes ago
Macca (referring to your first post), I'm certainly not saying there isn't long-term planning going on now. I'm saying there has been something of a dislocation of planning as a result of changing managers twice. Essentially, we are now setting down NEW long-term plans from scratch. We're suffering from the breakdown that inevitably occurs when Fergie leaves and the new script is ripped up less than a year later (and of course from bad decisions made by Fergie and Moyes, some of which may have been long-term in conception but still wrong).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR
Oh I know what you mean RR.
For me, the preparation for Fergie leaving (and Gill) was as shoddy as it could have been.
We have suffered as a result.
And then the timing of Moyes sacking was horrendous with his replacement having to work elsewhere in the Summer.
Fergie final years were mainly about the short time and we are currently suffering the consequences
posted on 27/8/14
*short term
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Reddevils double (U12215)
posted 10 minutes ago
Whilst nobody can dismiss di Maria's abilities as a winger many on here wanted a top CB and at least 1 top CM. Have we got those this window?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you asking the OP that
Can't you make your own mind up?
posted on 27/8/14
Macca - I didn't ask anybody In particular. You made a statement and I asked a question off the back of it. Wasn't aimed at anybody in particular. I'm Interested in the opinion of others.
posted on 27/8/14
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Reddevils double (U12215)
posted 10 minutes ago
Whilst nobody can dismiss di Maria's abilities as a winger many on here wanted a top CB and at least 1 top CM. Have we got those this window?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are you asking the OP that
Can't you make your own mind up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was more of a rhetorical question. We haven't really. We have obviously unproved our midfield with the addition of Herrera, but he's not what you would call one of the top midfielders. CB - no.
posted on 27/8/14
My view of the window so far: we have strengthened in all of the areas we needed to, and ideally we should strengthen more in midfield. One more CM and I'd see it as a very good summer's business. Stay as we are and I'd say we have made steps in the right direction.
posted on 27/8/14
Not overly fussed about another CB if we can get the midfield beast we need playing in front of them
I have faith in Jones Smalling and Rojo, particularly in a 433
posted on 27/8/14
Not overly fussed about another CB if we can get the midfield beast we need playing in front of them
-----------------------------
I wouldn't be at all upset if we bought a world class centre back but I too still see CM as the big priority.
posted on 27/8/14
RR / beers - agreed. Still not quite there at CB or CM and considering these were the priorities for many this window (as well as a LB) I am reluctant as I'm sure many would be to say this window has been beyond our wildest dreams.
Page 1 of 4