Not really macca. I never doubted we would sign players. What concerned we was the delays in getting these players in. We wasted time going for TV, a player arsenal were never going to sell to us and preferred a move to Barca anyway. Had we moved for Rojo sooner maybe we would have done better at Swansea Sunderland and MK dons? Same goes for di Maria and anybody else we may yet bring in.
----------------
yeah, maybe we should have gone for them during the WC eh?
Come off it
The players were bought when they became available.
It was only last week Di Maria even became available.
Maybe here is the place
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/269621
------------------------------------
You seem to have plagiarised my article there, Macca!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 57 seconds ago
Maybe here is the place
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/269621
------------------------------------
You seem to have plagiarised my article there, Macca!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I did, then I have a functional time machine
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 43 minutes ago
IAmMe
Thanks for your post but isn't there a tension between arguing against short-termism and slating the signing of foreign-based players on the rationale that they will take longer to get used to the Premiership?
Personally, I find it hard to see the evidence that the purchases we have made are ill-considered. All four improve our options in areas of the squad where we our resources are stretched or quality is too low. They haven't resolved every such area but they are all steps in the right direction. Perhaps more will be made in the next six days.
If we end the window without every issue resolved, that will be a shame but we can't say with any authority that it is as a direct result of other transfers we have made. It may take a couple more windows to bring in all the players LVG wants to shape a coherent squad. Look at Mourinho's business since returning to Chelsea: he improved his side last summer but didn't transform it; Matic came in January; Fabregas and Costa this summer; now it looks like the team he wants. And he had more preparation time last summer than LVG has had since the WC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I agree that LvG has had very little time to get it right but David Moyes was also not given enough time to get it right. That was very poor directorship from the club. If they got the choice wrong in the first place then they too are to blame. Having made the choice he needed more time to at least work it out or not. I don't know if the current choice is any wiser or not. That is what worries me. How they deal with him is down to the directors
LvG may just walk.
It is not about what he does or who he brings in. It is about recognising that SAF was not god, and that he did make mistakes as well as pulling off miracles.
Reddevils double, it strikes me as a minor gripe set against the bigger picture. Yes, the sooner we buy the players, the better. But the primary objective is to bring in the players we need. If we have a workable squad this time next week, I think we can afford to cut the management some slack in relation to the timings, especially taking the WC and LVG's late arrival into account.
Worse, in my view, would have been rushing to bring players in without properly analysing what LVG needed: having a full squad in place for the Swansea game but saddling the manager with players who didn't quite fit. The way it has gone we have paid the price in 2-3 games; the other way would risk paying the price for the whole season. Moreover, who can say with any certainty that it is the players we haven't signed, rather than the injuries and the tactical transitions, which have brought about the poor performances of the last two weeks?
If I did, then I have a functional time machine
--------------------------------------------
Could explain all of your updates from the 1880s.
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 58 minutes ago
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
-------------------------------
Yeah
Southampton were in the Championship I suppose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never suggested Shaw is a 'luxury' player - mainly, because he isn't.
Getting a bit desperate are we?
That tends to be the trouble with liars
It is always fine margins at the top, 30 seconds was the difference to Moyes inheriting a twice continuous championship winning team
The danger I said that can happen after someone like ferguson retired was this -
"For me, what you as fans need to remember now in order to temper that, is that Ferguson, despite being one of the greatest managers of all time, still made mistakes. Dealing with the press, some transfer signings, tactical decisions, relationships with certain players – for all of those aspects of management, I can think of at least one example where Ferguson got things wrong from time to time, particularly in the early days. He got them wrong far less often than most, but in his retirement and the unbelievable level of success you guys have enjoyed over the past 25 years, I think it is just as important to remember those mistakes as much as how brilliant he was"
The last couple of days I've seen a lot of comments saying "ferguson really was a genius getting these players to win the title". Whilst that is true, he was a genius, it doesn't mean that underperformance is inevitable either.
It is a very difficult balance, but whether someone is the right fit can only be fully answered through time. I'm a big believer that no one can win the title without exceptional players. You have that and you have a few of them. A top four challenge to me is still easily within your grasp, if not more.
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 58 minutes ago
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
-------------------------------
Yeah
Southampton were in the Championship I suppose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never suggested Shaw is a 'luxury' player - mainly, because he isn't.
Getting a bit desperate are we?
That tends to be the trouble with liars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't lying
I posted you exact words about Kroos last time
So you said you didn't include Shaw??
I would re-read what you out
People need to be honest with themselves. Back in June, do you really believe in your wildest dreams we would have added Shaw Herrera and Di Maria on top of a CB that played in the WC final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly the kind if short termist approach and mentality warned about by the OP.
In answer to your question, none of the named players signed were in my dreams. Mainly because I don't have those kind of dreams, but I kinda guessed that there was a danger of knee jerk responses to last season, and that is exactly what has happened.
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 53 minutes ago
This is exactly the kind if short termist approach and mentality warned about by the OP.
-----------------------
The drivel you come out with on these boards defies belief.
I'm happy with a potentially top class LB who's 19, a potentially top class CM, at 24, a young CB who plays for Argentina, and you accuse me of acting short term and then claim Scweinsteiger is the answer to the long term, at 30?
It's up there with your claim we didn't need Kroos because we have Hernandez
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you Dr Joseph Goebbels incarnate?
Repeating a lie is not really the best way of making it any more credible despite DJG premise that it does.
Well I agree that LvG has had very little time to get it right but David Moyes was also not given enough time to get it right. That was very poor directorship from the club. If they got the choice wrong in the first place then they too are to blame. Having made the choice he needed more time to at least work it out or not.
------------------------------------
Once again I see tensions in your argument. You accept that Moyes may have been the wrong choice but you suggest that having made the wrong choice, the board ought to have given him more time.
I disagree, if it is established he was the wrong choice, it is necessary to correct that mistake.
Personally, I wasn't one of those wielding pitch forks for Moyes. I think he was unlucky in many respects, and received poor backing in the transfer window last summer (though we don't really know who was to blame for the dithering). I suspect his plans were very coherent and progressive on paper. But I think his fatal flaw was being unable to project authority to his players. There fatal flaw was the lack of collective belief. It's very hard to win that back.
Changing managers again, as per my OP, is a disruption that has its disadvantages. But there was also a need to disrupt that plummeting self-confidence. I think we did the right thing in sacking the manager who took a team of comfortable champions (albeit with some big renovations due) to 7th place.
http://www.ja606.co.uk/comments/viewAllComments/273032/1#C11562470
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted on 19/6/14
Of the 9 names listed, only Schweinsteiger will make any significant impact.
Kroos would be useful, but only because MUFC currently only have Hernandez as a striker
Who you calling a liar again?
IAmMe
At worst, Macca has quoted you and slightly misconstrued your point. If he has, you might want to correct him on the matter, because I can't see how he is misrepresenting your earlier comments.
Either way, your response has been a tad theatrical to say the least. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it does seem some way short of demonising the Jews in order to encourage society to become complicit in genocide.
RR
I realise what I did but the point clearly remains
IamMe think Kroos plays in the same position as chich
Which is utter nonsense
Macca, I don't realise what you did. As far as I could see, you were quoting him to take issue with his reasoning. If he's calling you a liar (let alone Goebbels!) he needs to state his case more clearly.
Something else that makes me laugh
IamMe goes on and on about our CM being fully stocked and not being a priority, and that the RB GK and CF positions are the ones that need addressing to them state this
Scweinsteiger is the stuff of my dreams
make zero sense
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Macca, I don't realise what you did. As far as I could see, you were quoting him to take issue with his reasoning. If he's calling you a liar (let alone Goebbels!) he needs to state his case more clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was referring to something a few months ago
Yes, I got it slightly wrong in terms of exactly what he said but the overriding point was still valid
He stated Kroos would be useful because we currently only have Hernandez as a srtiker
Maybe you could explain that to me RR
Macca, I think the only explanation is that you are worse than Hitler and Stalin combined.
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 58 minutes ago
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
-------------------------------
Yeah
Southampton were in the Championship I suppose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never suggested Shaw is a 'luxury' player - mainly, because he isn't.
Getting a bit desperate are we?
That tends to be the trouble with liars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't lying
I posted you exact words about Kroos last time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And the put them out of context
Avoid the point at all costs eh?
Your claims are dishonest (i.e. lies) because they use the old method of decontextualization.
I would seriously check that whatever chair you pontificate from does not have an angst-created, upward pointing, spike on it.
Explain the comment then
Kroos would be useful because we currently only have Hernandez as a striker
Avoid the point at all costs eh?
Your claims are dishonest (i.e. lies) because they use the old method of decontextualization.
I would seriously check that whatever chair you pontificate from does not have an angst-created, upward pointing, spike on it.
--------------------------------------
This isn't really about Luke Shaw, is it?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 27 minutes ago
IAmMe
At worst, Macca has quoted you and slightly misconstrued your point. If he has, you might want to correct him on the matter, because I can't see how he is misrepresenting your earlier comments.
Either way, your response has been a tad theatrical to say the least. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it does seem some way short of demonising the Jews in order to encourage society to become complicit in genocide.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wooah now! This has nothing to do with genocide. Let's calm down now.
Dr Joseph Goebbels - a propagandist - famously pointed out that:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"
This particular poster has done the same thing on at least two occasions in order to justify an untenable claim.
They have no evidence to support their claim and I have pointed that out to them. That is all.
Please do not allow this, very good, honest and interesting thread be hijacked by an angry fool like that.
RR
I fail to see what he's moaning about
It could have been far simpler to state 'Oh yes, I didn't mean Shaw sorry'
But no, he has to claim he didn't mean Shaw despite stating 'all' the players 'bar Mata' I mentioned
This guy gets weirder everytime he comes on here
Sign in if you want to comment
Stability
Page 3 of 4
posted on 27/8/14
Not really macca. I never doubted we would sign players. What concerned we was the delays in getting these players in. We wasted time going for TV, a player arsenal were never going to sell to us and preferred a move to Barca anyway. Had we moved for Rojo sooner maybe we would have done better at Swansea Sunderland and MK dons? Same goes for di Maria and anybody else we may yet bring in.
----------------
yeah, maybe we should have gone for them during the WC eh?
Come off it
The players were bought when they became available.
It was only last week Di Maria even became available.
posted on 27/8/14
Maybe here is the place
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/269621
------------------------------------
You seem to have plagiarised my article there, Macca!
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 57 seconds ago
Maybe here is the place
http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/269621
------------------------------------
You seem to have plagiarised my article there, Macca!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I did, then I have a functional time machine
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 43 minutes ago
IAmMe
Thanks for your post but isn't there a tension between arguing against short-termism and slating the signing of foreign-based players on the rationale that they will take longer to get used to the Premiership?
Personally, I find it hard to see the evidence that the purchases we have made are ill-considered. All four improve our options in areas of the squad where we our resources are stretched or quality is too low. They haven't resolved every such area but they are all steps in the right direction. Perhaps more will be made in the next six days.
If we end the window without every issue resolved, that will be a shame but we can't say with any authority that it is as a direct result of other transfers we have made. It may take a couple more windows to bring in all the players LVG wants to shape a coherent squad. Look at Mourinho's business since returning to Chelsea: he improved his side last summer but didn't transform it; Matic came in January; Fabregas and Costa this summer; now it looks like the team he wants. And he had more preparation time last summer than LVG has had since the WC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I agree that LvG has had very little time to get it right but David Moyes was also not given enough time to get it right. That was very poor directorship from the club. If they got the choice wrong in the first place then they too are to blame. Having made the choice he needed more time to at least work it out or not. I don't know if the current choice is any wiser or not. That is what worries me. How they deal with him is down to the directors
LvG may just walk.
It is not about what he does or who he brings in. It is about recognising that SAF was not god, and that he did make mistakes as well as pulling off miracles.
posted on 27/8/14
Reddevils double, it strikes me as a minor gripe set against the bigger picture. Yes, the sooner we buy the players, the better. But the primary objective is to bring in the players we need. If we have a workable squad this time next week, I think we can afford to cut the management some slack in relation to the timings, especially taking the WC and LVG's late arrival into account.
Worse, in my view, would have been rushing to bring players in without properly analysing what LVG needed: having a full squad in place for the Swansea game but saddling the manager with players who didn't quite fit. The way it has gone we have paid the price in 2-3 games; the other way would risk paying the price for the whole season. Moreover, who can say with any certainty that it is the players we haven't signed, rather than the injuries and the tactical transitions, which have brought about the poor performances of the last two weeks?
posted on 27/8/14
If I did, then I have a functional time machine
--------------------------------------------
Could explain all of your updates from the 1880s.
posted on 27/8/14
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 58 minutes ago
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
-------------------------------
Yeah
Southampton were in the Championship I suppose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never suggested Shaw is a 'luxury' player - mainly, because he isn't.
Getting a bit desperate are we?
That tends to be the trouble with liars
posted on 27/8/14
It is always fine margins at the top, 30 seconds was the difference to Moyes inheriting a twice continuous championship winning team
The danger I said that can happen after someone like ferguson retired was this -
"For me, what you as fans need to remember now in order to temper that, is that Ferguson, despite being one of the greatest managers of all time, still made mistakes. Dealing with the press, some transfer signings, tactical decisions, relationships with certain players – for all of those aspects of management, I can think of at least one example where Ferguson got things wrong from time to time, particularly in the early days. He got them wrong far less often than most, but in his retirement and the unbelievable level of success you guys have enjoyed over the past 25 years, I think it is just as important to remember those mistakes as much as how brilliant he was"
The last couple of days I've seen a lot of comments saying "ferguson really was a genius getting these players to win the title". Whilst that is true, he was a genius, it doesn't mean that underperformance is inevitable either.
It is a very difficult balance, but whether someone is the right fit can only be fully answered through time. I'm a big believer that no one can win the title without exceptional players. You have that and you have a few of them. A top four challenge to me is still easily within your grasp, if not more.
posted on 27/8/14
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 58 minutes ago
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
-------------------------------
Yeah
Southampton were in the Championship I suppose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never suggested Shaw is a 'luxury' player - mainly, because he isn't.
Getting a bit desperate are we?
That tends to be the trouble with liars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't lying
I posted you exact words about Kroos last time
posted on 27/8/14
So you said you didn't include Shaw??
I would re-read what you out
People need to be honest with themselves. Back in June, do you really believe in your wildest dreams we would have added Shaw Herrera and Di Maria on top of a CB that played in the WC final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly the kind if short termist approach and mentality warned about by the OP.
In answer to your question, none of the named players signed were in my dreams. Mainly because I don't have those kind of dreams, but I kinda guessed that there was a danger of knee jerk responses to last season, and that is exactly what has happened.
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
posted on 27/8/14
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 53 minutes ago
This is exactly the kind if short termist approach and mentality warned about by the OP.
-----------------------
The drivel you come out with on these boards defies belief.
I'm happy with a potentially top class LB who's 19, a potentially top class CM, at 24, a young CB who plays for Argentina, and you accuse me of acting short term and then claim Scweinsteiger is the answer to the long term, at 30?
It's up there with your claim we didn't need Kroos because we have Hernandez
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you Dr Joseph Goebbels incarnate?
Repeating a lie is not really the best way of making it any more credible despite DJG premise that it does.
posted on 27/8/14
Well I agree that LvG has had very little time to get it right but David Moyes was also not given enough time to get it right. That was very poor directorship from the club. If they got the choice wrong in the first place then they too are to blame. Having made the choice he needed more time to at least work it out or not.
------------------------------------
Once again I see tensions in your argument. You accept that Moyes may have been the wrong choice but you suggest that having made the wrong choice, the board ought to have given him more time.
I disagree, if it is established he was the wrong choice, it is necessary to correct that mistake.
Personally, I wasn't one of those wielding pitch forks for Moyes. I think he was unlucky in many respects, and received poor backing in the transfer window last summer (though we don't really know who was to blame for the dithering). I suspect his plans were very coherent and progressive on paper. But I think his fatal flaw was being unable to project authority to his players. There fatal flaw was the lack of collective belief. It's very hard to win that back.
Changing managers again, as per my OP, is a disruption that has its disadvantages. But there was also a need to disrupt that plummeting self-confidence. I think we did the right thing in sacking the manager who took a team of comfortable champions (albeit with some big renovations due) to 7th place.
posted on 27/8/14
http://www.ja606.co.uk/comments/viewAllComments/273032/1#C11562470
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted on 19/6/14
Of the 9 names listed, only Schweinsteiger will make any significant impact.
Kroos would be useful, but only because MUFC currently only have Hernandez as a striker
Who you calling a liar again?
posted on 27/8/14
IAmMe
At worst, Macca has quoted you and slightly misconstrued your point. If he has, you might want to correct him on the matter, because I can't see how he is misrepresenting your earlier comments.
Either way, your response has been a tad theatrical to say the least. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it does seem some way short of demonising the Jews in order to encourage society to become complicit in genocide.
posted on 27/8/14
RR
I realise what I did but the point clearly remains
IamMe think Kroos plays in the same position as chich
Which is utter nonsense
posted on 27/8/14
Macca, I don't realise what you did. As far as I could see, you were quoting him to take issue with his reasoning. If he's calling you a liar (let alone Goebbels!) he needs to state his case more clearly.
posted on 27/8/14
Something else that makes me laugh
IamMe goes on and on about our CM being fully stocked and not being a priority, and that the RB GK and CF positions are the ones that need addressing to them state this
Scweinsteiger is the stuff of my dreams
make zero sense
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Macca, I don't realise what you did. As far as I could see, you were quoting him to take issue with his reasoning. If he's calling you a liar (let alone Goebbels!) he needs to state his case more clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was referring to something a few months ago
Yes, I got it slightly wrong in terms of exactly what he said but the overriding point was still valid
He stated Kroos would be useful because we currently only have Hernandez as a srtiker
Maybe you could explain that to me RR
posted on 27/8/14
Macca, I think the only explanation is that you are worse than Hitler and Stalin combined.
posted on 27/8/14
I'm happy with that
posted on 27/8/14
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by IAmMe (U18491)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 58 minutes ago
Seriously, what is the point of signing all those luxury players at over the odds cost? None of them (apart from Mata) have EPL experience,
-------------------------------
Yeah
Southampton were in the Championship I suppose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never suggested Shaw is a 'luxury' player - mainly, because he isn't.
Getting a bit desperate are we?
That tends to be the trouble with liars
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't lying
I posted you exact words about Kroos last time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And the put them out of context
Avoid the point at all costs eh?
Your claims are dishonest (i.e. lies) because they use the old method of decontextualization.
I would seriously check that whatever chair you pontificate from does not have an angst-created, upward pointing, spike on it.
posted on 27/8/14
Explain the comment then
Kroos would be useful because we currently only have Hernandez as a striker
posted on 27/8/14
Avoid the point at all costs eh?
Your claims are dishonest (i.e. lies) because they use the old method of decontextualization.
I would seriously check that whatever chair you pontificate from does not have an angst-created, upward pointing, spike on it.
--------------------------------------
This isn't really about Luke Shaw, is it?
posted on 27/8/14
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 27 minutes ago
IAmMe
At worst, Macca has quoted you and slightly misconstrued your point. If he has, you might want to correct him on the matter, because I can't see how he is misrepresenting your earlier comments.
Either way, your response has been a tad theatrical to say the least. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it does seem some way short of demonising the Jews in order to encourage society to become complicit in genocide.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wooah now! This has nothing to do with genocide. Let's calm down now.
Dr Joseph Goebbels - a propagandist - famously pointed out that:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"
This particular poster has done the same thing on at least two occasions in order to justify an untenable claim.
They have no evidence to support their claim and I have pointed that out to them. That is all.
Please do not allow this, very good, honest and interesting thread be hijacked by an angry fool like that.
posted on 27/8/14
RR
I fail to see what he's moaning about
It could have been far simpler to state 'Oh yes, I didn't mean Shaw sorry'
But no, he has to claim he didn't mean Shaw despite stating 'all' the players 'bar Mata' I mentioned
This guy gets weirder everytime he comes on here
Page 3 of 4