if you look at Van Gaals track record, he is very much into promoting youth and building a team from the roots. He has done it at Barca and Bayern and left them both a legacy. But United's current need is urgent, he isnt going to be given the time to do that right now, he needs instant success and spending big is the only way to do it. But the two things are not mutually exclusive, I expect us to produce a few players in the coming years who move from the academy to the first team and dont be surprised if a lot of them are Dutch.
Michael Keane went on loan right? If so, isn't that the usual path the players take? Loan at lower division and then onto a PL side at the bottom to mid-table before being a proper feature in the first team. Both Cleverley and Welbeck have followed this path as have Evans and others.
Unfortunately for us to sustain our business model we need to be buying the very best footballers. Don't think the owners are going to be happy if we don't take all the money Adidas will owe us if we're out the Champions League again.
There's nothing better for me to watch Man United's youth product play in our team, but then again I say this to everyone. When was the last time any of them really made it?
We hype everyone of them up in the beginning, then 2 seasons down the line we say they're not good enough.
They have been good enough to be back up players, which I would be happy to keep some of them as but apparently anyone who isn't world class must be abused at all times....
Rojo is not a top player. He is rank average.
we bought Rojo to sort out the noisey neighbours, he is good at that apparently.
comment by CurrentlyInChina84 (U11181)
posted 28 minutes ago
Michael Keane went on loan right? If so, isn't that the usual path the players take? Loan at lower division and then onto a PL side at the bottom to mid-table before being a proper feature in the first team. Both Cleverley and Welbeck have followed this path as have Evans and others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they're all gash! Owen, Rooney, Fowler, Giggs, McManaman and Scholes get loaned out?
Yes he did. To toughen him up as I recall. Fact is good players rarely get loaned out over the age of 20. It's not a good sign and this is not football manager. Ronaldo get loaned out? Zidane? Fat Ronaldo? Gerrard? Neville? Sometimes you get an under 20 going from a big club for a season but it's not common place as you want you're good players to train inthe best facilities with the best players and best coaches. If you're getting loaned out over 20 then it's rarely a good sign. More often than not it's because they can't handle playing in front of a crowd. Talent in training but bottle it on the pitch.
Some players develop later than others...
Drogba being the prime example.
Certain positions can sometimes have a later peak than others as well, Centre backs, which Keane is as one of the older of the outfield positions.
In the past Barca finished 3rd the season before his first spell and Bayern finished 2nd, he's having to take United from 7th into the top four which means immediate changes are needed. He, eventually will bring in more academy players and young signings IMO.
If you're getting loaned out over 20 then it's rarely a good sign.
------
What about Falcao?
Drogba get loaned out did he?
If you're getting oaned out over 20 then you're in trouble. I've watched Keane for years.
Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
I agree with you to an extent, Robbing. Obviously players develop at different rates so it's not to say the players are in trouble in terms of their career if a big club like United loans you at over the age of 20, but it doesn't bode well for your future at the club as an influential player - squad players less so.
There is always an exception to the rule Darren, yes, but far more often than not if you're over 20 it's a bit of a death knell. Shop window springs to mind.
Drogba get loaned out did he?
......................................
He was bought for £80,000 in 2001/02....
Such a worthless player wouldn't have even been loaned out by a big club (like Keane is at) he would have probably been sold, or even let go on a free...
Which is a much lesser regard for a player than loaning them out.
In fact just look at Utd's loan history. Player like Chadwick et al. Yes you have Beckham and in fact Welbeck.
I've watched the Keane brothers for a while in the ressies and they're not getting any better really. Wilson though.....
I don't disagree that Keane may/probably won't make it just the original post regarding a loan for a player meaning their useless...
Although getting loaned out over 20 is generally a bad sign, Chelsea have loaned out a few pretty good players over 20 haven't they?
*They're
Yes and none of them are any good for the first team (That's not to say that they nor Keane are useless which was a crass leap by yourself).
Chelsea have loaned out over 20 players and it's arguable that they stockpiled young players pre FFP in order to make money on them later through loan and transfer fees via putting them in the shop window.
This is about bringing players through to the first team as a philosophy is it not? Keane will be on his way.
Useless isn't as bad a word as it sounds, you were describing players being sent out on loan as not being 'useful' for the club in the future.... thats the very definition of useless...
Lets just call it crossed wires though.
It somewhat worked with Cleverly and Welbeck, if we hadn't had the dip last season and finished midtable they would have probably stayed as decent squad players (though I think Welbeck would have kicked on)
I am pretty sure it wouldn't have been better for Welbeck to stay at United the years he went on loan because he would have been competing against much better players and had very limited game time in which to improve.
Part of the reason B teams are getting mentioned in regards to English football is to allow our youngsters to play regular competitive football which is what a loan allows.
Also didn't Chelsea loan out Courtois, he seems fairly good for the first team....
comment by Robbing_Hoody - Here, have some goals. You don't have to work for them. They're a gift. That's what we do now. (U6374)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina84 (U11181)
posted 28 minutes ago
Michael Keane went on loan right? If so, isn't that the usual path the players take? Loan at lower division and then onto a PL side at the bottom to mid-table before being a proper feature in the first team. Both Cleverley and Welbeck have followed this path as have Evans and others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they're all gash! Owen, Rooney, Fowler, Giggs, McManaman and Scholes get loaned out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who all started their careers 15/20 years ago when not many players were loaned out. Hardly comparing like for like are you. Most top clubs today have 10 players on loan at any one time, the game is totally different.
Yeah I would say in fairness at the top in England the competition is that much tougher these days that youngsters get less chances at their club and have to prove themselves on loan more often.
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The Change in Philosophy at Manchester
Page 1 of 2
posted on 3/9/14
Danny Welbeck
posted on 3/9/14
if you look at Van Gaals track record, he is very much into promoting youth and building a team from the roots. He has done it at Barca and Bayern and left them both a legacy. But United's current need is urgent, he isnt going to be given the time to do that right now, he needs instant success and spending big is the only way to do it. But the two things are not mutually exclusive, I expect us to produce a few players in the coming years who move from the academy to the first team and dont be surprised if a lot of them are Dutch.
posted on 3/9/14
Michael Keane went on loan right? If so, isn't that the usual path the players take? Loan at lower division and then onto a PL side at the bottom to mid-table before being a proper feature in the first team. Both Cleverley and Welbeck have followed this path as have Evans and others.
posted on 3/9/14
Unfortunately for us to sustain our business model we need to be buying the very best footballers. Don't think the owners are going to be happy if we don't take all the money Adidas will owe us if we're out the Champions League again.
There's nothing better for me to watch Man United's youth product play in our team, but then again I say this to everyone. When was the last time any of them really made it?
We hype everyone of them up in the beginning, then 2 seasons down the line we say they're not good enough.
posted on 3/9/14
They have been good enough to be back up players, which I would be happy to keep some of them as but apparently anyone who isn't world class must be abused at all times....
posted on 3/9/14
Rojo is not a top player. He is rank average.
posted on 3/9/14
we bought Rojo to sort out the noisey neighbours, he is good at that apparently.
posted on 3/9/14
comment by CurrentlyInChina84 (U11181)
posted 28 minutes ago
Michael Keane went on loan right? If so, isn't that the usual path the players take? Loan at lower division and then onto a PL side at the bottom to mid-table before being a proper feature in the first team. Both Cleverley and Welbeck have followed this path as have Evans and others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they're all gash! Owen, Rooney, Fowler, Giggs, McManaman and Scholes get loaned out?
posted on 3/9/14
Beckham got loaned out.
posted on 3/9/14
So did Frank Lampard.
posted on 3/9/14
Yes he did. To toughen him up as I recall. Fact is good players rarely get loaned out over the age of 20. It's not a good sign and this is not football manager. Ronaldo get loaned out? Zidane? Fat Ronaldo? Gerrard? Neville? Sometimes you get an under 20 going from a big club for a season but it's not common place as you want you're good players to train inthe best facilities with the best players and best coaches. If you're getting loaned out over 20 then it's rarely a good sign. More often than not it's because they can't handle playing in front of a crowd. Talent in training but bottle it on the pitch.
posted on 3/9/14
Some players develop later than others...
Drogba being the prime example.
Certain positions can sometimes have a later peak than others as well, Centre backs, which Keane is as one of the older of the outfield positions.
posted on 3/9/14
In the past Barca finished 3rd the season before his first spell and Bayern finished 2nd, he's having to take United from 7th into the top four which means immediate changes are needed. He, eventually will bring in more academy players and young signings IMO.
posted on 3/9/14
If you're getting loaned out over 20 then it's rarely a good sign.
------
What about Falcao?
posted on 3/9/14
Drogba get loaned out did he?
If you're getting oaned out over 20 then you're in trouble. I've watched Keane for years.
posted on 3/9/14
Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted on 3/9/14
I agree with you to an extent, Robbing. Obviously players develop at different rates so it's not to say the players are in trouble in terms of their career if a big club like United loans you at over the age of 20, but it doesn't bode well for your future at the club as an influential player - squad players less so.
posted on 3/9/14
There is always an exception to the rule Darren, yes, but far more often than not if you're over 20 it's a bit of a death knell. Shop window springs to mind.
posted on 3/9/14
Drogba get loaned out did he?
......................................
He was bought for £80,000 in 2001/02....
Such a worthless player wouldn't have even been loaned out by a big club (like Keane is at) he would have probably been sold, or even let go on a free...
Which is a much lesser regard for a player than loaning them out.
posted on 3/9/14
In fact just look at Utd's loan history. Player like Chadwick et al. Yes you have Beckham and in fact Welbeck.
I've watched the Keane brothers for a while in the ressies and they're not getting any better really. Wilson though.....
posted on 3/9/14
I don't disagree that Keane may/probably won't make it just the original post regarding a loan for a player meaning their useless...
Although getting loaned out over 20 is generally a bad sign, Chelsea have loaned out a few pretty good players over 20 haven't they?
posted on 3/9/14
*They're
Yes and none of them are any good for the first team (That's not to say that they nor Keane are useless which was a crass leap by yourself).
Chelsea have loaned out over 20 players and it's arguable that they stockpiled young players pre FFP in order to make money on them later through loan and transfer fees via putting them in the shop window.
This is about bringing players through to the first team as a philosophy is it not? Keane will be on his way.
posted on 3/9/14
Useless isn't as bad a word as it sounds, you were describing players being sent out on loan as not being 'useful' for the club in the future.... thats the very definition of useless...
Lets just call it crossed wires though.
It somewhat worked with Cleverly and Welbeck, if we hadn't had the dip last season and finished midtable they would have probably stayed as decent squad players (though I think Welbeck would have kicked on)
I am pretty sure it wouldn't have been better for Welbeck to stay at United the years he went on loan because he would have been competing against much better players and had very limited game time in which to improve.
Part of the reason B teams are getting mentioned in regards to English football is to allow our youngsters to play regular competitive football which is what a loan allows.
Also didn't Chelsea loan out Courtois, he seems fairly good for the first team....
posted on 3/9/14
comment by Robbing_Hoody - Here, have some goals. You don't have to work for them. They're a gift. That's what we do now. (U6374)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by CurrentlyInChina84 (U11181)
posted 28 minutes ago
Michael Keane went on loan right? If so, isn't that the usual path the players take? Loan at lower division and then onto a PL side at the bottom to mid-table before being a proper feature in the first team. Both Cleverley and Welbeck have followed this path as have Evans and others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And they're all gash! Owen, Rooney, Fowler, Giggs, McManaman and Scholes get loaned out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who all started their careers 15/20 years ago when not many players were loaned out. Hardly comparing like for like are you. Most top clubs today have 10 players on loan at any one time, the game is totally different.
posted on 3/9/14
Yeah I would say in fairness at the top in England the competition is that much tougher these days that youngsters get less chances at their club and have to prove themselves on loan more often.
Page 1 of 2