He was up with Sterling as the best player on the night.
Rooney doesn't fit the new team and Sturridge had a poor game, otherwise Wilsheres work would have had a greater effect on the scoreline.
To much expectation on him at the moment. He need to do a Ramsey and get back to basic's.
In my opinion he played well against Besiktas and again last night. People need to stop focussing on him too much
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
He was up with Sterling as the best player on the night.
Rooney doesn't fit the new team and Sturridge had a poor game, otherwise Wilsheres work would have had a greater effect on the scoreline.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I thought that, Sterling aside, he was comfortably our best playing going forward.
I think Rooney's a great player, but trying to fit him into the team has upset the balance a bit over recent years.
"To much expectation on him at the moment. He need to do a Ramsey and get back to basic's.
In my opinion he played well against Besiktas and again last night. People need to stop focussing on him too much"
Exactly I do feel he's sometimes guilty of doing a little too much - particularly when he tries those cute one-twos in and around a crowded penalty area.
But otherwise, his all-round game is excellent.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The problem is that most pundits wrongly assumed that Wilshere is the second coming of Gazza. He is not a play maker and never will be. Its exactly the same way Waddle etc. , wrongly looked at Walcott as a winger.
England players have generally been incapable of playing in multiple positions. So England managers have played rigid formations that focus more on positioning players rather than playing a more fluid formation where they can move from position to position.
Hopefully in future England managers can just pick most of the Arsenal team and allow them to combine play naturally as they would at club level. Until then players like Wilshere will always be criticised because those analysing them can't look beyond their own limited ability.
If Wilshere was a nice guy, you'd hear none of this talk.
He's comfortably been our best midfielder this year. I think people's opinions on him are skewed because they expect him to be a CAM, but Wenger highlighted quite a while ago that his best position is deeper.
He plays a different role now. Whilst there's still room for improvement as he's not playing amazing, he is doing basics better.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
The problem is that most pundits wrongly assumed that Wilshere is the second coming of Gazza. He is not a play maker and never will be. Its exactly the same way Waddle etc. , wrongly looked at Walcott as a winger.
England players have generally been incapable of playing in multiple positions. So England managers have played rigid formations that focus more on positioning players rather than playing a more fluid formation where they can move from position to position.
Hopefully in future England managers can just pick most of the Arsenal team and allow them to combine play naturally as they would at club level. Until then players like Wilshere will always be criticised because those analysing them can't look beyond their own limited ability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a very good point
I still remember a game a year or so ago when Wilshere was played as the AM in a midfield three of Lampard and Gerrard. The latter two were seemingly instructed not to venture over the half-way line, whilst the striker, Lambert, was hanging off the shoulder of the defender, and the two widemen were pretty much told to hug the touchline. Wilshere was essentially left isolated in the centre of the final third.
Wilshere's a great passer, but his style relies on being able to give-and-go with other players.
At Arsenal, he has the likes of Ozil, Cazorla, and even Giroud - who drops off the frontline a lot - who he can link-up with in this respect.
This is one of the reasons I want to see England play with a 3-man-midfield.
"He's comfortably been our best midfielder this year. I think people's opinions on him are skewed because they expect him to be a CAM, but Wenger highlighted quite a while ago that his best position is deeper.
He plays a different role now. Whilst there's still room for improvement as he's not playing amazing, he is doing basics better."
Agreed! Unfortunately, it's going to be difficult for him to break into the team with Ramsey there. I think that's why Wenger has toyed with a more traditional 433 at times this season.
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
posted 52 seconds ago
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's one of the problems I have with the 442 - at times, the widemen are required to come inside to help cover the 2-man midfield, which limits their ability to isolate the full-back and take him on.
Jack IS a decent guy. I didnt see any.other England player step up to wheel the disabled kid put yesterday. #decent
TBH I pay little or no attention to how our players fare on international duty (as long as they come through games unscathed).
From what I saw of the game last night however there was no particularly outstanding performances from anyone – albeit Sterling again looks a class act, and Rooney had mare.
Really not sure what benefit the England (or any other) team achieve from these type of games.
comment by I have a Seaman moustache. I love Seaman........(David). I love German POP-Per Ozil Pod (U8893)
posted 5 minutes ago
Jack IS a decent guy. I didnt see any.other England player step up to wheel the disabled kid put yesterday. #decent
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've always got the impression that he's a good guy - just a little fiery on the pitch.
"TBH I pay little or no attention to how our players fare on international duty (as long as they come through games unscathed).
From what I saw of the game last night however there was no particularly outstanding performances from anyone – albeit Sterling again looks a class act, and Rooney had mare.
Really not sure what benefit the England (or any other) team achieve from these type of games."
In theory, I think they're designed to help improve the cohesion of the team and get the players used to playing with one another.
However, the system itself doesn't seem to suit the players, and I don't think there's any amount of match practice that can overcome that.
I agree, he played quite well yesterday. But Rooney got the headlines for scoring a penalty...
Had an argument at lunch with a Man C and Liverpool fans. They all said Wilshere was shít last night, I laughed and asked the Man C fan where were the man C players last night and deliberately pretended to not know which Liverpool player was playing alonside Wilshere in the middle as he did not hardly touch the ball...
I find it (a bit like Ozil) the media and rival fans jump on the band wagon. Wilshere is a good player, a great prospect if he can keep out of getting injured. I would love if he could play alongside Ramsey everyweek but atm its like Gerrard and Lampard for England, does not work.
He has a lot of pressure on him, especially when Sholes came out with his comments recently.
With Gerrard and Lampard now gone he has a chance for England to rule that midfield. He just needs someone who turns up for games to play alongside him.
Also Rooney was the worst player last night. If I was Roy I would drop him and play Sterling behind Sturridge, he has far more skill and desire then Rooney....
But Rooney (unlike Wilshere) is the media favourite....
Wilshere is the most talented English player since Rooney. But hopefully unlike Rooney he does reach his potential. I also think he's the most talented in the Arsenal team besides Özil & Alexis.
Such a top talent, not many midfielders are big superstars by 22 either.
comment by Sanchez is a little red hot Chile. Ready to burn the Arsé-nal records. And he is not from Russia...yeaa!! (U6483)
posted 7 minutes ago
I agree, he played quite well yesterday. But Rooney got the headlines for scoring a penalty...
Had an argument at lunch with a Man C and Liverpool fans. They all said Wilshere was shít last night, I laughed and asked the Man C fan where were the man C players last night and deliberately pretended to not know which Liverpool player was playing alonside Wilshere in the middle as he did not hardly touch the ball...
I find it (a bit like Ozil) the media and rival fans jump on the band wagon. Wilshere is a good player, a great prospect if he can keep out of getting injured. I would love if he could play alongside Ramsey everyweek but atm its like Gerrard and Lampard for England, does not work.
He has a lot of pressure on him, especially when Sholes came out with his comments recently.
With Gerrard and Lampard now gone he has a chance for England to rule that midfield. He just needs someone who turns up for games to play alongside him.
Also Rooney was the worst player last night. If I was Roy I would drop him and play Sterling behind Sturridge, he has far more skill and desire then Rooney....
But Rooney (unlike Wilshere) is the media favourite....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely agree about Rooney. I'd personally like to see Rooney dropped, a natural deep-lying playmaker/DM - like Huddlestone, Noble, or Rodwell - brought in to play behind Wilshere and Henderson, and Sterling and Chamberlain pushed further up the pitch.
I think Wilshere and Ramsey can play together if this system is right. Against Man City, we played a high-line and these two pressed them superbly all over the field, with Arteta mopping up. Unfortunately, we haven't really played a high-line since.
"Wilshere is the most talented English player since Rooney. But hopefully unlike Rooney he does reach his potential. I also think he's the most talented in the Arsenal team besides Özil & Alexis.
Such a top talent, not many midfielders are big superstars by 22 either."
Pretty much agree Although, like Big Willy-Sanchez, I think Chamberlain is at least as talented.
"I just surprised that you wrote an article, you never write articles!"
Haha! When something annoys me enough I do!
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
-----------------------------
I said this on another post that for some reason when ox starts a game he drifts infield even when there are no obvious gaps to exploit and eventually we lose shape.
He will still be a top player but hard to say in which position but given his strength I think in the middle of the park.
comment by b10 (U18580)
posted 6 minutes ago
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
-----------------------------
I said this on another post that for some reason when ox starts a game he drifts infield even when there are no obvious gaps to exploit and eventually we lose shape.
He will still be a top player but hard to say in which position but given his strength I think in the middle of the park.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've thought this myself at times, although sometimes it's hard to know how much is tactical and how much is his own-doing - a lot of our 'widemen' tend to drift in - much to my frustration!
DaStuDogg
I havent seen such praise for Wilshere in a long time. Anyway I am one of those that actually wants Wilshere-Ramsey to work.I am not too fussed if it doesnt work always but I think its something we can make use of in some games esp against City when the league resumes.
The most important thing for Jack is to try to stay fit all season.Once he does that he has his whole career to look forward to. I suspect he will line up along Ramsey and Arteta against City.
Thats the formation I want to see in the big games. Against mid table to lower teams Wenger is willing to sacrifice a central midfielder for a winger or attacking mid.
Wilshere's ability to drive forward with the ball & dribble is rare and once he gets the final ball right he will be amazing.
I actually think the English team should be built around Wilshere and barkley.
comment by b10 (U18580)
posted 3 minutes ago
DaStuDogg
I havent seen such praise for Wilshere in a long time. Anyway I am one of those that actually wants Wilshere-Ramsey to work.I am not too fussed if it doesnt work always but I think its something we can make use of in some games esp against City when the league resumes.
The most important thing for Jack is to try to stay fit all season.Once he does that he has his whole career to look forward to. I suspect he will line up along Ramsey and Arteta against City.
Thats the formation I want to see in the big games. Against mid table to lower teams Wenger is willing to sacrifice a central midfielder for a winger or attacking mid.
Wilshere's ability to drive forward with the ball & dribble is rare and once he gets the final ball right he will be amazing.
I actually think the English team should be built around Wilshere and barkley.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see that set-up too, although I hope Wenger puts Chamberlain on the left instead of Cazorla or Ozil. I think it also requires a higher-defensive line to allow us to press effectively, so, as risky as it sounds, I wouldn't be averse to dropping Mertesacker for Chambers in such situations.
Wilshere and Barkley are both exceptional at carrying the ball through midfield, and with a front-three of Sterling-Sturridge-Chamberlain, the athleticism and directness of the side would be very tough for teams to handle - that is providing such a system is employed!
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'Average' Wilshere vs Norway
Page 1 of 3
posted on 4/9/14
He was up with Sterling as the best player on the night.
Rooney doesn't fit the new team and Sturridge had a poor game, otherwise Wilsheres work would have had a greater effect on the scoreline.
posted on 4/9/14
To much expectation on him at the moment. He need to do a Ramsey and get back to basic's.
In my opinion he played well against Besiktas and again last night. People need to stop focussing on him too much
posted on 4/9/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/9/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/9/14
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
He was up with Sterling as the best player on the night.
Rooney doesn't fit the new team and Sturridge had a poor game, otherwise Wilsheres work would have had a greater effect on the scoreline.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I thought that, Sterling aside, he was comfortably our best playing going forward.
I think Rooney's a great player, but trying to fit him into the team has upset the balance a bit over recent years.
"To much expectation on him at the moment. He need to do a Ramsey and get back to basic's.
In my opinion he played well against Besiktas and again last night. People need to stop focussing on him too much"
Exactly I do feel he's sometimes guilty of doing a little too much - particularly when he tries those cute one-twos in and around a crowded penalty area.
But otherwise, his all-round game is excellent.
posted on 4/9/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 4/9/14
The problem is that most pundits wrongly assumed that Wilshere is the second coming of Gazza. He is not a play maker and never will be. Its exactly the same way Waddle etc. , wrongly looked at Walcott as a winger.
England players have generally been incapable of playing in multiple positions. So England managers have played rigid formations that focus more on positioning players rather than playing a more fluid formation where they can move from position to position.
Hopefully in future England managers can just pick most of the Arsenal team and allow them to combine play naturally as they would at club level. Until then players like Wilshere will always be criticised because those analysing them can't look beyond their own limited ability.
posted on 4/9/14
If Wilshere was a nice guy, you'd hear none of this talk.
posted on 4/9/14
He's comfortably been our best midfielder this year. I think people's opinions on him are skewed because they expect him to be a CAM, but Wenger highlighted quite a while ago that his best position is deeper.
He plays a different role now. Whilst there's still room for improvement as he's not playing amazing, he is doing basics better.
posted on 4/9/14
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 3 minutes ago
The problem is that most pundits wrongly assumed that Wilshere is the second coming of Gazza. He is not a play maker and never will be. Its exactly the same way Waddle etc. , wrongly looked at Walcott as a winger.
England players have generally been incapable of playing in multiple positions. So England managers have played rigid formations that focus more on positioning players rather than playing a more fluid formation where they can move from position to position.
Hopefully in future England managers can just pick most of the Arsenal team and allow them to combine play naturally as they would at club level. Until then players like Wilshere will always be criticised because those analysing them can't look beyond their own limited ability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a very good point
I still remember a game a year or so ago when Wilshere was played as the AM in a midfield three of Lampard and Gerrard. The latter two were seemingly instructed not to venture over the half-way line, whilst the striker, Lambert, was hanging off the shoulder of the defender, and the two widemen were pretty much told to hug the touchline. Wilshere was essentially left isolated in the centre of the final third.
Wilshere's a great passer, but his style relies on being able to give-and-go with other players.
At Arsenal, he has the likes of Ozil, Cazorla, and even Giroud - who drops off the frontline a lot - who he can link-up with in this respect.
This is one of the reasons I want to see England play with a 3-man-midfield.
"He's comfortably been our best midfielder this year. I think people's opinions on him are skewed because they expect him to be a CAM, but Wenger highlighted quite a while ago that his best position is deeper.
He plays a different role now. Whilst there's still room for improvement as he's not playing amazing, he is doing basics better."
Agreed! Unfortunately, it's going to be difficult for him to break into the team with Ramsey there. I think that's why Wenger has toyed with a more traditional 433 at times this season.
posted on 4/9/14
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
posted on 4/9/14
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
posted 52 seconds ago
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's one of the problems I have with the 442 - at times, the widemen are required to come inside to help cover the 2-man midfield, which limits their ability to isolate the full-back and take him on.
posted on 4/9/14
Jack IS a decent guy. I didnt see any.other England player step up to wheel the disabled kid put yesterday. #decent
posted on 4/9/14
*out
posted on 4/9/14
TBH I pay little or no attention to how our players fare on international duty (as long as they come through games unscathed).
From what I saw of the game last night however there was no particularly outstanding performances from anyone – albeit Sterling again looks a class act, and Rooney had mare.
Really not sure what benefit the England (or any other) team achieve from these type of games.
posted on 4/9/14
comment by I have a Seaman moustache. I love Seaman........(David). I love German POP-Per Ozil Pod (U8893)
posted 5 minutes ago
Jack IS a decent guy. I didnt see any.other England player step up to wheel the disabled kid put yesterday. #decent
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've always got the impression that he's a good guy - just a little fiery on the pitch.
"TBH I pay little or no attention to how our players fare on international duty (as long as they come through games unscathed).
From what I saw of the game last night however there was no particularly outstanding performances from anyone – albeit Sterling again looks a class act, and Rooney had mare.
Really not sure what benefit the England (or any other) team achieve from these type of games."
In theory, I think they're designed to help improve the cohesion of the team and get the players used to playing with one another.
However, the system itself doesn't seem to suit the players, and I don't think there's any amount of match practice that can overcome that.
posted on 4/9/14
I agree, he played quite well yesterday. But Rooney got the headlines for scoring a penalty...
Had an argument at lunch with a Man C and Liverpool fans. They all said Wilshere was shít last night, I laughed and asked the Man C fan where were the man C players last night and deliberately pretended to not know which Liverpool player was playing alonside Wilshere in the middle as he did not hardly touch the ball...
I find it (a bit like Ozil) the media and rival fans jump on the band wagon. Wilshere is a good player, a great prospect if he can keep out of getting injured. I would love if he could play alongside Ramsey everyweek but atm its like Gerrard and Lampard for England, does not work.
He has a lot of pressure on him, especially when Sholes came out with his comments recently.
With Gerrard and Lampard now gone he has a chance for England to rule that midfield. He just needs someone who turns up for games to play alongside him.
Also Rooney was the worst player last night. If I was Roy I would drop him and play Sterling behind Sturridge, he has far more skill and desire then Rooney....
But Rooney (unlike Wilshere) is the media favourite....
posted on 4/9/14
Wilshere is the most talented English player since Rooney. But hopefully unlike Rooney he does reach his potential. I also think he's the most talented in the Arsenal team besides Özil & Alexis.
Such a top talent, not many midfielders are big superstars by 22 either.
posted on 4/9/14
posted on 4/9/14
posted on 4/9/14
comment by Sanchez is a little red hot Chile. Ready to burn the Arsé-nal records. And he is not from Russia...yeaa!! (U6483)
posted 7 minutes ago
I agree, he played quite well yesterday. But Rooney got the headlines for scoring a penalty...
Had an argument at lunch with a Man C and Liverpool fans. They all said Wilshere was shít last night, I laughed and asked the Man C fan where were the man C players last night and deliberately pretended to not know which Liverpool player was playing alonside Wilshere in the middle as he did not hardly touch the ball...
I find it (a bit like Ozil) the media and rival fans jump on the band wagon. Wilshere is a good player, a great prospect if he can keep out of getting injured. I would love if he could play alongside Ramsey everyweek but atm its like Gerrard and Lampard for England, does not work.
He has a lot of pressure on him, especially when Sholes came out with his comments recently.
With Gerrard and Lampard now gone he has a chance for England to rule that midfield. He just needs someone who turns up for games to play alongside him.
Also Rooney was the worst player last night. If I was Roy I would drop him and play Sterling behind Sturridge, he has far more skill and desire then Rooney....
But Rooney (unlike Wilshere) is the media favourite....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely agree about Rooney. I'd personally like to see Rooney dropped, a natural deep-lying playmaker/DM - like Huddlestone, Noble, or Rodwell - brought in to play behind Wilshere and Henderson, and Sterling and Chamberlain pushed further up the pitch.
I think Wilshere and Ramsey can play together if this system is right. Against Man City, we played a high-line and these two pressed them superbly all over the field, with Arteta mopping up. Unfortunately, we haven't really played a high-line since.
"Wilshere is the most talented English player since Rooney. But hopefully unlike Rooney he does reach his potential. I also think he's the most talented in the Arsenal team besides Özil & Alexis.
Such a top talent, not many midfielders are big superstars by 22 either."
Pretty much agree Although, like Big Willy-Sanchez, I think Chamberlain is at least as talented.
"I just surprised that you wrote an article, you never write articles!"
Haha! When something annoys me enough I do!
posted on 4/9/14
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
-----------------------------
I said this on another post that for some reason when ox starts a game he drifts infield even when there are no obvious gaps to exploit and eventually we lose shape.
He will still be a top player but hard to say in which position but given his strength I think in the middle of the park.
posted on 4/9/14
comment by b10 (U18580)
posted 6 minutes ago
England looked decent at the start when Chamberlain was out on the right with Wilshere feeding him and Sturridge but for whatever reason Ox move inside and we lost a good outlet. Presumably Hodgson told him too.
-----------------------------
I said this on another post that for some reason when ox starts a game he drifts infield even when there are no obvious gaps to exploit and eventually we lose shape.
He will still be a top player but hard to say in which position but given his strength I think in the middle of the park.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've thought this myself at times, although sometimes it's hard to know how much is tactical and how much is his own-doing - a lot of our 'widemen' tend to drift in - much to my frustration!
posted on 4/9/14
DaStuDogg
I havent seen such praise for Wilshere in a long time. Anyway I am one of those that actually wants Wilshere-Ramsey to work.I am not too fussed if it doesnt work always but I think its something we can make use of in some games esp against City when the league resumes.
The most important thing for Jack is to try to stay fit all season.Once he does that he has his whole career to look forward to. I suspect he will line up along Ramsey and Arteta against City.
Thats the formation I want to see in the big games. Against mid table to lower teams Wenger is willing to sacrifice a central midfielder for a winger or attacking mid.
Wilshere's ability to drive forward with the ball & dribble is rare and once he gets the final ball right he will be amazing.
I actually think the English team should be built around Wilshere and barkley.
posted on 4/9/14
comment by b10 (U18580)
posted 3 minutes ago
DaStuDogg
I havent seen such praise for Wilshere in a long time. Anyway I am one of those that actually wants Wilshere-Ramsey to work.I am not too fussed if it doesnt work always but I think its something we can make use of in some games esp against City when the league resumes.
The most important thing for Jack is to try to stay fit all season.Once he does that he has his whole career to look forward to. I suspect he will line up along Ramsey and Arteta against City.
Thats the formation I want to see in the big games. Against mid table to lower teams Wenger is willing to sacrifice a central midfielder for a winger or attacking mid.
Wilshere's ability to drive forward with the ball & dribble is rare and once he gets the final ball right he will be amazing.
I actually think the English team should be built around Wilshere and barkley.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see that set-up too, although I hope Wenger puts Chamberlain on the left instead of Cazorla or Ozil. I think it also requires a higher-defensive line to allow us to press effectively, so, as risky as it sounds, I wouldn't be averse to dropping Mertesacker for Chambers in such situations.
Wilshere and Barkley are both exceptional at carrying the ball through midfield, and with a front-three of Sterling-Sturridge-Chamberlain, the athleticism and directness of the side would be very tough for teams to handle - that is providing such a system is employed!
Page 1 of 3