comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 11 minutes ago
I never said that westerners wouldn't be safe walking around etc. I said that the western world is a long way off being welcomed at the moment.
-----------------------------------------
Okay but when we talk about Russia being welcoming or hostile we need to make a distinction between the regulatory climate vis-a-vis business and how ordinary Russian treat ordinary people visiting the country. If there is a trade war going on, it doesn't mean you'll see obnoxious behaviour on the streets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct, obnoxiousness wouldn't be an issue anyway. More so violence. I saw a lot of obnoxiousness myself whilst visiting Moscow, although as you say that's just their society, even kids looks like robots.
I don't think the place will make for a great World Cup, regardless of the politics involved.
The real issue comes when it isn't only an industrial war, if Russia continue to invade their neighbours the world has to do something, eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are fresh from illegally invading two middle-eastern countries, I don't think we should be pointing any fingers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah because what we did to Iraq and Afgan are so very similar to what Russia have done to Ukraime, Georgia ect
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your right.
We killed and over million people and stole their oil.... not to mention using depleted uranium tipped missiles that are causing a number of birth deformaties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose bombing the Islamic State is wrong on the US's part too? As battling Al Qaeda was so bad.
Sudam Hussain, what a gentleman he was too
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 19 minutes ago
It's the West that are mainly in the wrong. After the USSR was dissolved the West promised to stay away from the Russian borders and leave Ukraine out of it but over the past 10 or so years NATO had been inching closer to the Russian borders and from a Russian perspective it would look like Ukraine might join NATO.
Now of course the Russians are far from innocent but if the US and friends stayed away from the Ukraine a lot of this wouldn't be happening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it NATO's fault that Russia are invading Ukraine, and have already done so to Georgia?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Go do some research! The West have been inching closer to the Russian border for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because Georgia was to become a part of the west, that is NATO's fault?
Basically Russia control these surrounding "separatist" regions and still hold grudges from wars in the 1920's. It's ludicrous.
You have basically read a theory, more so a conspiracy and felt because it was different you'd spout it yourself, you like to be different.
Also Robb, if Russia were to co-operate we'd feel no need to have bases nearer the Russian boarder. They are clearly there to protect the west from any missiles fired, it's no as though the west are going to attack Russia unprovoked now, is it.
No, it's not a theory that part of the agreement to end the cold war was that Ukraine was to be left out of any US expansionist plans. The Ukraine has long thought to be joining NATO for a while now so Russia are acting.
It's very simplistic for you to think that the Russians are bad guys and the West are good.
If Russia had a military alliance and were close to invading France or Scotland I'm sure you'd want England to intervene.
Falcao
Surely you can see why Russia would get annoyed by the West building missile defence systems on the borders of Russia?
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 27 seconds ago
Falcao
Surely you can see why Russia would get annoyed by the West building missile defence systems on the borders of Russia?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I can, but if they weren't invading countries without the permission of the UN it wouldn't happen.
Why shouldn't Ukraine join NATO? It's not Russias decision
If Russia had a military alliance and were close to invading France or Scotland I'm sure you'd want England to intervene.
__________________________________________
But the West are not invading Ukraine, Russia are.
"It's very simplistic for you to think that the Russians are bad guys and the West are good. "
Simplistic doesn't mean it's wrong though...
Like I said before, in 1991 when the cold war ended the US and Russia agreed that Ukraine would be left out of any expansionist plans. Ukraine houses the bulk of Russias nuclear missiles and is also a hugely strategic part of that region.
Had NATO not made inroads into that area Russia would not have been provoked into defending their border in the way they're doing it.
NATO and their eastern inroads into dangerous territory are causing all this.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 41 seconds ago
"It's very simplistic for you to think that the Russians are bad guys and the West are good. "
Simplistic doesn't mean it's wrong though...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is Robbs problem, maybe his dad was a magician?
Do you want this McDonalds Robb.....oops it's bubble and squad.
Would you like this PS for Christmas Robb, shazam, it's an Abacus.
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 52 seconds ago
Like I said before, in 1991 when the cold war ended the US and Russia agreed that Ukraine would be left out of any expansionist plans. Ukraine houses the bulk of Russias nuclear missiles and is also a hugely strategic part of that region.
Had NATO not made inroads into that area Russia would not have been provoked into defending their border in the way they're doing it.
NATO and their eastern inroads into dangerous territory are causing all this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explain the shooting down of a civilian flight then....
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
If Russia had a military alliance and were close to invading France or Scotland I'm sure you'd want England to intervene.
__________________________________________
But the West are not invading Ukraine, Russia are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I apologise. I chose my words wrongly there.
I mean that if a NATO equivalent of Russia were making agreements with France or Scotland and wanted to build missile defence systems on the borders of England therefore blunting their military effectiveness you'd want England to preempt that and protect its borders by making the first move.
Maybe not you particularly but most would accept that. That's what Russia are doing now.
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 52 seconds ago
Like I said before, in 1991 when the cold war ended the US and Russia agreed that Ukraine would be left out of any expansionist plans. Ukraine houses the bulk of Russias nuclear missiles and is also a hugely strategic part of that region.
Had NATO not made inroads into that area Russia would not have been provoked into defending their border in the way they're doing it.
NATO and their eastern inroads into dangerous territory are causing all this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explain the shooting down of a civilian flight then....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was the work of Russian separatists who made a huge mistake. What they did was disgusting but hardly the orders of Putin.
In the 80's the US shot down a civilian jumbo jet too. That was a mistake.
That was the work of Russian separatists who made a huge mistake. What they did was disgusting but hardly the orders of Putin.
___________________________________________
That's what Moscow want you to think
Robb, I'm far from a cheerleader for the West and I don't envy Ukraines the kind of 'reforms' that will be insisted upon by IMF etc. if they end up fully realigning with the West. But the West (let's say NATO and the EU) creeping eastwards is an altogether different thing to the kind of colonialism that Russia wants to exert. Yes, both sides want to extend their spheres of influence. On the Western side that is primarily about access to markets but also implementing things like rule of law and legitimate elections. On the Russian side it is far more direct coercion: Putin wants neighbours who do what he says and has demonstrated he is willing to intervene directly to ensure that strong influence. Long before this latest confrontation, the pro-Western presidential candidate was poisoned in a way eerily similar to a number of opposition activists and journalists in Russia. Right now there are Russian tanks and troops basically propping up a supposedly 'popular uprising' in the east of the country, one which has limited involvement from local residents despite hysterical Russian propaganda that the fascists from the west of the country want to wipe them out. (I watched a lot of Russian TV this summer and was shocked by the levels of nationalistic fury it was spouting. The thinking classes in Russia, among whom I count a few good friends are shell-shocked by the transformation of public discourse over the last year or so and how the general public is soaking it up like zombies.)
Speaking as someone who sees our own political system as fundamentally corrupt and our society as deeply unfair, I wouldn't hesitate to choose this model of Putin's Russia. We really are a lot more secure in our political freedoms, and are personally safer. We aren't afraid to tell the police if we are victims of a crime. We don't have to pay bribes at every level of life. And Russia is just as economical unequal as the UK, with billionaire crooks and politicians scréwing the public instead of the business establishment.
That's why lots of Ukrainians (and Georgians and Estonians) want what to be governed by what they see as European values. Suggesting the West is just as bad in its 'expansion' doesn't really add up to respecting the Ukrainian's right to self-determination; rather, it means abandoning Ukrainians to colonialism by another bloc.
Left-wingers in the West have no business supporting colonialism, just because it's being perpetrated by the other lot.
That was the work of Russian separatists who made a huge mistake. What they did was disgusting but hardly the orders of Putin.
------------------------------
It's a consequence of Putin helping coordinate and arming these 'separatists' (who leaders all seem to have pasts in the Russian security services). It's also a consequence of the covert invasion: the distance that allows him plausible deniability creates the break in chain of command, which created the indiscipline that caused the mistake.
RR
Believe me, I'm no cheerleader for Russia and there are many reasons that I could give for why I fundamentally disagree with their current time laws and restrictions etc but all I'm doing here is saying why I think Russia are doing what they're doing.
If there was a war tomorrow and us Aussies were involved I'd not hesitate to fight for the West. But we can all see that the US have a lot of reasons to be blamed for this (as well as the Russians).
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 11 minutes ago
I never said that westerners wouldn't be safe walking around etc. I said that the western world is a long way off being welcomed at the moment.
-----------------------------------------
Okay but when we talk about Russia being welcoming or hostile we need to make a distinction between the regulatory climate vis-a-vis business and how ordinary Russian treat ordinary people visiting the country. If there is a trade war going on, it doesn't mean you'll see obnoxious behaviour on the streets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct, obnoxiousness wouldn't be an issue anyway. More so violence. I saw a lot of obnoxiousness myself whilst visiting Moscow, although as you say that's just their society, even kids looks like robots.
I don't think the place will make for a great World Cup, regardless of the politics involved.
The real issue comes when it isn't only an industrial war, if Russia continue to invade their neighbours the world has to do something, eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are fresh from illegally invading two middle-eastern countries, I don't think we should be pointing any fingers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah because what we did to Iraq and Afgan are so very similar to what Russia have done to Ukraime, Georgia ect
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your right.
We killed and over million people and stole their oil.... not to mention using depleted uranium tipped missiles that are causing a number of birth deformaties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose bombing the Islamic State is wrong on the US's part too? As battling Al Qaeda was so bad.
Sudam Hussain, what a gentleman he was too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously only get your info from mainstream media.
You understand this illigitamate "Islamic State" were propped up by the yanks to fight Asad in Syria only couple of years ago.
They literally rolled into Iraq in Toyotas given to them by the states firing guns given to them by the state.
Intervention in Iraq coincided with this group reaching the oil fields controlled by the USA.
There is plenty of horrible things happening in the world but intervention only ever happens in a place where there is plenty of natural resources.... strange that.
We didn't bob Iraq because Saddam was a bad man.
We bombed Iraq supposedly because they could attack us in 45 minutes with WMD's.... remember? And because Saddam was collaborating with Bin Laden, even though they were sworn enemies.
It turned into a war to liberate Iraq from Saddam once the WMD lie was found out.
You understand this illigitamate "Islamic State" were propped up by the yanks to fight Asad in Syria only couple of years ago.
--------------------
what has that got to do with them now ethnic cleansing Iraq and beheading innocent reporters?
Just because The US originally supported them, I don't see how why they cannot change their minds based on the acts they are now comitting
Oh, I'm still waiting for your response to why the UN would sanction resolution 1483 if they considered the Iraq war illegal?
Iraq had been ignoring UN resolution after UN resolution going back to 687 after the first Gulf War and even well before that too
Lets not pretend The UN didn't give Saddam chance after chance to get his house in order before The coalition invaded.
You have mentioned Scott Ritter's report many times befor but have yet to answer my questions on the frightening section about VX
Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
The US fought with Sunny militants I believe, although some of these broke away into the ISIS group, it certainly isn't in the way you have painted it.
Everything I have read suggests that IS (ISIS) formed in Iraq as a part of Al Qaeda but were disowned by the group
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
The US fought with Sunny militants I believe, although some of these broke away into the ISIS group, it certainly isn't in the way you have painted it.
Everything I have read suggests that IS (ISIS) formed in Iraq as a part of Al Qaeda but were disowned by the group
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are not Sunni they are Wahhabi.
They were not formed in Iraq they were created in Syria by the United States which is why they claim that the so called Islamic State extends from Syria to Iraq.
This a basic knowledge of the group that every day people don't know and it's dangerous.
You need to start doing real research!
Kung Fu Cantona
You also seem to make excuses for these kind of groups, just as you have done the Palatines previously (who are in no way innocent).
Regardless of who funded them from the outset, they were not going into villages and savagely killing anybody who doesn't pay them money or join them, which is exactly what they are doing.
There are whole towns fleeing form their homes because IS are doing just this, they are making examples of people by beheading them and leaving their heads out for all to see what happens if you do now pay up or join. This includes fellow Muslims and even children
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
The US fought with Sunny militants I believe, although some of these broke away into the ISIS group, it certainly isn't in the way you have painted it.
Everything I have read suggests that IS (ISIS) formed in Iraq as a part of Al Qaeda but were disowned by the group
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are not Sunni they are Wahhabi.
They were not formed in Iraq they were created in Syria by the United States which is why they claim that the so called Islamic State extends from Syria to Iraq.
This a basic knowledge of the group that every day people don't know and it's dangerous.
You need to start doing real research!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick google search suggests you're talking out your arsé
This thread has gone a bit off kilter to the initial point about the World Cup...
ISL wasn't simply started because Syrians crossed the boarder though, they were a separate group from the IS which began in Syria.
Sign in if you want to comment
World Cup Boycott
Page 3 of 5
posted on 5/9/14
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 11 minutes ago
I never said that westerners wouldn't be safe walking around etc. I said that the western world is a long way off being welcomed at the moment.
-----------------------------------------
Okay but when we talk about Russia being welcoming or hostile we need to make a distinction between the regulatory climate vis-a-vis business and how ordinary Russian treat ordinary people visiting the country. If there is a trade war going on, it doesn't mean you'll see obnoxious behaviour on the streets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct, obnoxiousness wouldn't be an issue anyway. More so violence. I saw a lot of obnoxiousness myself whilst visiting Moscow, although as you say that's just their society, even kids looks like robots.
I don't think the place will make for a great World Cup, regardless of the politics involved.
The real issue comes when it isn't only an industrial war, if Russia continue to invade their neighbours the world has to do something, eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are fresh from illegally invading two middle-eastern countries, I don't think we should be pointing any fingers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah because what we did to Iraq and Afgan are so very similar to what Russia have done to Ukraime, Georgia ect
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your right.
We killed and over million people and stole their oil.... not to mention using depleted uranium tipped missiles that are causing a number of birth deformaties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose bombing the Islamic State is wrong on the US's part too? As battling Al Qaeda was so bad.
Sudam Hussain, what a gentleman he was too
posted on 5/9/14
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 35 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 19 minutes ago
It's the West that are mainly in the wrong. After the USSR was dissolved the West promised to stay away from the Russian borders and leave Ukraine out of it but over the past 10 or so years NATO had been inching closer to the Russian borders and from a Russian perspective it would look like Ukraine might join NATO.
Now of course the Russians are far from innocent but if the US and friends stayed away from the Ukraine a lot of this wouldn't be happening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it NATO's fault that Russia are invading Ukraine, and have already done so to Georgia?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Go do some research! The West have been inching closer to the Russian border for years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So because Georgia was to become a part of the west, that is NATO's fault?
Basically Russia control these surrounding "separatist" regions and still hold grudges from wars in the 1920's. It's ludicrous.
You have basically read a theory, more so a conspiracy and felt because it was different you'd spout it yourself, you like to be different.
posted on 5/9/14
Also Robb, if Russia were to co-operate we'd feel no need to have bases nearer the Russian boarder. They are clearly there to protect the west from any missiles fired, it's no as though the west are going to attack Russia unprovoked now, is it.
posted on 5/9/14
No, it's not a theory that part of the agreement to end the cold war was that Ukraine was to be left out of any US expansionist plans. The Ukraine has long thought to be joining NATO for a while now so Russia are acting.
It's very simplistic for you to think that the Russians are bad guys and the West are good.
If Russia had a military alliance and were close to invading France or Scotland I'm sure you'd want England to intervene.
posted on 5/9/14
Falcao
Surely you can see why Russia would get annoyed by the West building missile defence systems on the borders of Russia?
posted on 5/9/14
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 27 seconds ago
Falcao
Surely you can see why Russia would get annoyed by the West building missile defence systems on the borders of Russia?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I can, but if they weren't invading countries without the permission of the UN it wouldn't happen.
Why shouldn't Ukraine join NATO? It's not Russias decision
posted on 5/9/14
If Russia had a military alliance and were close to invading France or Scotland I'm sure you'd want England to intervene.
__________________________________________
But the West are not invading Ukraine, Russia are.
posted on 5/9/14
"It's very simplistic for you to think that the Russians are bad guys and the West are good. "
Simplistic doesn't mean it's wrong though...
posted on 5/9/14
Like I said before, in 1991 when the cold war ended the US and Russia agreed that Ukraine would be left out of any expansionist plans. Ukraine houses the bulk of Russias nuclear missiles and is also a hugely strategic part of that region.
Had NATO not made inroads into that area Russia would not have been provoked into defending their border in the way they're doing it.
NATO and their eastern inroads into dangerous territory are causing all this.
posted on 5/9/14
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 41 seconds ago
"It's very simplistic for you to think that the Russians are bad guys and the West are good. "
Simplistic doesn't mean it's wrong though...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is Robbs problem, maybe his dad was a magician?
Do you want this McDonalds Robb.....oops it's bubble and squad.
Would you like this PS for Christmas Robb, shazam, it's an Abacus.
posted on 5/9/14
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 52 seconds ago
Like I said before, in 1991 when the cold war ended the US and Russia agreed that Ukraine would be left out of any expansionist plans. Ukraine houses the bulk of Russias nuclear missiles and is also a hugely strategic part of that region.
Had NATO not made inroads into that area Russia would not have been provoked into defending their border in the way they're doing it.
NATO and their eastern inroads into dangerous territory are causing all this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explain the shooting down of a civilian flight then....
posted on 5/9/14
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
If Russia had a military alliance and were close to invading France or Scotland I'm sure you'd want England to intervene.
__________________________________________
But the West are not invading Ukraine, Russia are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I apologise. I chose my words wrongly there.
I mean that if a NATO equivalent of Russia were making agreements with France or Scotland and wanted to build missile defence systems on the borders of England therefore blunting their military effectiveness you'd want England to preempt that and protect its borders by making the first move.
Maybe not you particularly but most would accept that. That's what Russia are doing now.
posted on 5/9/14
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by #Robb - My sky subscription bought us Falcao (U19350)
posted 52 seconds ago
Like I said before, in 1991 when the cold war ended the US and Russia agreed that Ukraine would be left out of any expansionist plans. Ukraine houses the bulk of Russias nuclear missiles and is also a hugely strategic part of that region.
Had NATO not made inroads into that area Russia would not have been provoked into defending their border in the way they're doing it.
NATO and their eastern inroads into dangerous territory are causing all this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Explain the shooting down of a civilian flight then....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was the work of Russian separatists who made a huge mistake. What they did was disgusting but hardly the orders of Putin.
In the 80's the US shot down a civilian jumbo jet too. That was a mistake.
posted on 5/9/14
That was the work of Russian separatists who made a huge mistake. What they did was disgusting but hardly the orders of Putin.
___________________________________________
That's what Moscow want you to think
posted on 5/9/14
Robb, I'm far from a cheerleader for the West and I don't envy Ukraines the kind of 'reforms' that will be insisted upon by IMF etc. if they end up fully realigning with the West. But the West (let's say NATO and the EU) creeping eastwards is an altogether different thing to the kind of colonialism that Russia wants to exert. Yes, both sides want to extend their spheres of influence. On the Western side that is primarily about access to markets but also implementing things like rule of law and legitimate elections. On the Russian side it is far more direct coercion: Putin wants neighbours who do what he says and has demonstrated he is willing to intervene directly to ensure that strong influence. Long before this latest confrontation, the pro-Western presidential candidate was poisoned in a way eerily similar to a number of opposition activists and journalists in Russia. Right now there are Russian tanks and troops basically propping up a supposedly 'popular uprising' in the east of the country, one which has limited involvement from local residents despite hysterical Russian propaganda that the fascists from the west of the country want to wipe them out. (I watched a lot of Russian TV this summer and was shocked by the levels of nationalistic fury it was spouting. The thinking classes in Russia, among whom I count a few good friends are shell-shocked by the transformation of public discourse over the last year or so and how the general public is soaking it up like zombies.)
Speaking as someone who sees our own political system as fundamentally corrupt and our society as deeply unfair, I wouldn't hesitate to choose this model of Putin's Russia. We really are a lot more secure in our political freedoms, and are personally safer. We aren't afraid to tell the police if we are victims of a crime. We don't have to pay bribes at every level of life. And Russia is just as economical unequal as the UK, with billionaire crooks and politicians scréwing the public instead of the business establishment.
That's why lots of Ukrainians (and Georgians and Estonians) want what to be governed by what they see as European values. Suggesting the West is just as bad in its 'expansion' doesn't really add up to respecting the Ukrainian's right to self-determination; rather, it means abandoning Ukrainians to colonialism by another bloc.
Left-wingers in the West have no business supporting colonialism, just because it's being perpetrated by the other lot.
posted on 5/9/14
That was the work of Russian separatists who made a huge mistake. What they did was disgusting but hardly the orders of Putin.
------------------------------
It's a consequence of Putin helping coordinate and arming these 'separatists' (who leaders all seem to have pasts in the Russian security services). It's also a consequence of the covert invasion: the distance that allows him plausible deniability creates the break in chain of command, which created the indiscipline that caused the mistake.
posted on 5/9/14
RR
Believe me, I'm no cheerleader for Russia and there are many reasons that I could give for why I fundamentally disagree with their current time laws and restrictions etc but all I'm doing here is saying why I think Russia are doing what they're doing.
If there was a war tomorrow and us Aussies were involved I'd not hesitate to fight for the West. But we can all see that the US have a lot of reasons to be blamed for this (as well as the Russians).
posted on 5/9/14
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 11 minutes ago
I never said that westerners wouldn't be safe walking around etc. I said that the western world is a long way off being welcomed at the moment.
-----------------------------------------
Okay but when we talk about Russia being welcoming or hostile we need to make a distinction between the regulatory climate vis-a-vis business and how ordinary Russian treat ordinary people visiting the country. If there is a trade war going on, it doesn't mean you'll see obnoxious behaviour on the streets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct, obnoxiousness wouldn't be an issue anyway. More so violence. I saw a lot of obnoxiousness myself whilst visiting Moscow, although as you say that's just their society, even kids looks like robots.
I don't think the place will make for a great World Cup, regardless of the politics involved.
The real issue comes when it isn't only an industrial war, if Russia continue to invade their neighbours the world has to do something, eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are fresh from illegally invading two middle-eastern countries, I don't think we should be pointing any fingers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah because what we did to Iraq and Afgan are so very similar to what Russia have done to Ukraime, Georgia ect
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your right.
We killed and over million people and stole their oil.... not to mention using depleted uranium tipped missiles that are causing a number of birth deformaties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose bombing the Islamic State is wrong on the US's part too? As battling Al Qaeda was so bad.
Sudam Hussain, what a gentleman he was too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You obviously only get your info from mainstream media.
You understand this illigitamate "Islamic State" were propped up by the yanks to fight Asad in Syria only couple of years ago.
They literally rolled into Iraq in Toyotas given to them by the states firing guns given to them by the state.
Intervention in Iraq coincided with this group reaching the oil fields controlled by the USA.
There is plenty of horrible things happening in the world but intervention only ever happens in a place where there is plenty of natural resources.... strange that.
We didn't bob Iraq because Saddam was a bad man.
We bombed Iraq supposedly because they could attack us in 45 minutes with WMD's.... remember? And because Saddam was collaborating with Bin Laden, even though they were sworn enemies.
It turned into a war to liberate Iraq from Saddam once the WMD lie was found out.
posted on 5/9/14
You understand this illigitamate "Islamic State" were propped up by the yanks to fight Asad in Syria only couple of years ago.
--------------------
what has that got to do with them now ethnic cleansing Iraq and beheading innocent reporters?
Just because The US originally supported them, I don't see how why they cannot change their minds based on the acts they are now comitting
Oh, I'm still waiting for your response to why the UN would sanction resolution 1483 if they considered the Iraq war illegal?
Iraq had been ignoring UN resolution after UN resolution going back to 687 after the first Gulf War and even well before that too
Lets not pretend The UN didn't give Saddam chance after chance to get his house in order before The coalition invaded.
You have mentioned Scott Ritter's report many times befor but have yet to answer my questions on the frightening section about VX
posted on 5/9/14
Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
The US fought with Sunny militants I believe, although some of these broke away into the ISIS group, it certainly isn't in the way you have painted it.
Everything I have read suggests that IS (ISIS) formed in Iraq as a part of Al Qaeda but were disowned by the group
posted on 5/9/14
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
The US fought with Sunny militants I believe, although some of these broke away into the ISIS group, it certainly isn't in the way you have painted it.
Everything I have read suggests that IS (ISIS) formed in Iraq as a part of Al Qaeda but were disowned by the group
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are not Sunni they are Wahhabi.
They were not formed in Iraq they were created in Syria by the United States which is why they claim that the so called Islamic State extends from Syria to Iraq.
This a basic knowledge of the group that every day people don't know and it's dangerous.
You need to start doing real research!
posted on 5/9/14
Kung Fu Cantona
You also seem to make excuses for these kind of groups, just as you have done the Palatines previously (who are in no way innocent).
Regardless of who funded them from the outset, they were not going into villages and savagely killing anybody who doesn't pay them money or join them, which is exactly what they are doing.
There are whole towns fleeing form their homes because IS are doing just this, they are making examples of people by beheading them and leaving their heads out for all to see what happens if you do now pay up or join. This includes fellow Muslims and even children
posted on 5/9/14
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Falcao's Fortress of Fear (U9083)
posted 1 minute ago
Kung Fu Cantona *Palestine4Ever* (U18082)
The US fought with Sunny militants I believe, although some of these broke away into the ISIS group, it certainly isn't in the way you have painted it.
Everything I have read suggests that IS (ISIS) formed in Iraq as a part of Al Qaeda but were disowned by the group
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They are not Sunni they are Wahhabi.
They were not formed in Iraq they were created in Syria by the United States which is why they claim that the so called Islamic State extends from Syria to Iraq.
This a basic knowledge of the group that every day people don't know and it's dangerous.
You need to start doing real research!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick google search suggests you're talking out your arsé
posted on 5/9/14
This thread has gone a bit off kilter to the initial point about the World Cup...
posted on 5/9/14
ISL wasn't simply started because Syrians crossed the boarder though, they were a separate group from the IS which began in Syria.
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