comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 10 minutes ago
Some really need to get real? Can we really pay the wages of the likes of Falcao, Cavani or on the other hand are these player available? This is not a FIFA game on your computer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are available if you actually put the effort in (we could have got Suarez if we did press the issue and approach the whole affair more competently) and have the pull.
Wages are an issue though. I do however think we can afford the players of Sanchezs and Ozils calibre but having squad members who contribute little and are on big wages doesn't help.
That's why I made the point against extending Artetas contract in the first place!
Suarez agree. Biggest regret I have. But we would have kept Giroud then, March.
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by march_2k (U10336)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Stuffing the squad with players who add little..."
Who do you mean with that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See my post above for example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Giroud is our top scorer though but respect that you cant stand him. Only an opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about not standing him. It's about wanting the best for the team.
How much is Costa on? I'd rather we paid that amount to a player of similar predatory ability than have us pay 80k to Giroud. It's that simple. Team takes priority over individual players.
Anyway we as fans and supporters cant change anything and havent got influence on these kind of internal issues. Just share views here
comment by WengersBodyguard2 (U8276)
posted 17 seconds ago
Nope. Chelsea, who will finish higher than also pay less than us over all.
Shows that the squad is poorly constructed compared to our closest genuine competitor, geographically and literally.
Why are we paying £80k to Giroud when we could pay £40k a week extra to Walcott and Ramsey who could get more elsewhere?
---------------------
Because we need to have strikers as well. Who plays up front when you give Giroud's 80 to Theo and Aaron instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Welbeck then Alexis and then Walcott and if necessary Sanogo.
Didn't Wenger buy Alexis specifically to play up front! His words!
But if you think Welbeck is not good enough to carry the attack then buy a striker who will be a starter good enough to be better than Welbeck, Alexis and Theo! Keep in mind there was time last season when Giroud was not even even good enough to start ahead of Sanogo!
Keep your definite starters on high wages and then pay the supporting cast lower money on the hope they can push for the starting position. Then sell the starter who has been demoted! Its quite simple and that way you don't allow you wages to hamstring on who you can buy or are forced to keep!
Wenger bought Pod, kept him while he preferred Santi in his position and occasionally Oxlade and then bought Alexis. What stability is Wenger rabbiting on about. It shows a man floundering and scared of taking the tough decisions.
In the meantime, Walcott will have less than 2 years left and will easily walk into Man City or Chelsea on 50% increase on his salary.
Some really need to get real? Can we really pay the wages of the likes of Falcao, Cavani or on the other hand are these player available? This is not a FIFA game on your computer.
------------------------
I swear people think it's as easy for Wenger as pushing buttons on a controller. People don't even stop to think "Well what happens when we pay Cavani 200k a week?" They all seem to reckon that he'll get that and Ramsey Walcott and co will just sit like mugs getting 100k. Because yes they'll all put up with being wage trumped that badly. We'd get our trousers pulled down and get bent over proper come contract reneg time.
Can't actually believe nobody seems to get the sports car explanation, thought it was a pretty good one myself. But then this is the age of living in debt well beyond our means just to own the latest mobile phone or tablet. So I shouldn't really be surprised that this lot can't grasp the difference between having the money to buy something and actually being able to afford to pay for it.
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
It's not about not standing him. It's about wanting the best for the team.
How much is Costa on? I'd rather we paid that amount to a player of similar predatory ability than have us pay 80k to Giroud. It's that simple. Team takes priority over individual players.
______________
Don't think we can Costa's wages. We cant compete with the likes of Chelsea and City on wages if they these teams compete with us about one player. Hazard is here a good example....
I dont think that Costa is worth his immense wages. He shines and scores at the moment....true but if you analyse his goals you have to come to the conclusion that a lot depend on Fabregas. But yes this pair work well together at the moment.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 seconds ago
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe it's only a myths? Did the telegraph actually reveal if they imply the wages of all loanies? Why do you think that at the end of the business year Chelsea didnt make any profit?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html
People also forget paying agents is more and more an issue.
I see what you're saying Jenius but that's not the model we've worked with for years now. We're at the tail end of the youngsters project where the idea was sign them young on higher than normal wages with long term contracts. Those young ones we've signed have smply had increases each reneg.
Working that way has got us to the point we're at now where we have the luxury to argue about affording Cavani. Your way is ideal and we'll no doubt return to that way now that our circumstances are ideal. But at the time our Theo and co were signed, we were in way less than ideal circumstances and had to come up with a way to compete. We did and now we can start to do it as you suggest. But we can't just start getting shot of players wholesale and change everything back overnight. The smart way to do it is gradually over a couple of seasons at least. Or we risk falling down the table due to too many changes in too many places too quickly. Mass wholesale squad change rarely does a team any good. Unless you're buying an entire squad a la City or Chelsea
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 53 seconds ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly why having so many passengers hampers us so much. They eat up the budget for wages and on top of that, we cannot even get rid of them to get someone better.
WengersBodyguard2
Don't you see the issue? As our English core all mature well, we will not be able to afford to keep them. Especially if we need interim players because of injuries or lack of form (see Wilshere) because of keeping aged players on salaries we can't shift who have never been able to produce on the pitch. Which is the reason why they have been replaced in the first place!
Giroud is 28 with a long term injury and was never really good enough in the first place. Arteta 34. Now I will commend Wenger if he is able to shift Giroud at the end of the season for more than his loyalty bonus signing on fee. Giroud and Arteta are not wholesale changes. They should have been the start of a new era of acting like a big club. But Wenger is going all socialist that he admits nearly destroyed the club and frankly can still do so!
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
-------------------------------------
It's called creative accounting. There's no way Chelsea's true wage bill is lower than ours. They're paying Costa alone what we pay Theo AND Ozil.
The same way rich people pay accountantsand lawyers to avoid taxes. Chelsea and City will be paying an army of them each to avoid FFP sanction. They've padded the figures. THAT'S how thier wage bill is lower.
WB
The whole point of the youth project was supposedly to put is through the lean years. No one says we cannot gradually deviate from that approach. In fact we already have with Ozil and Sanchez.
Gt
If we are serious about progressing, it's just another thing to reckon with. Paying off agents should not prevent us from moving forward.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by WengersBodyguard2 (U8276)
posted 2 minutes ago
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
-------------------------------------
It's called creative accounting. There's no way Chelsea's true wage bill is lower than ours. They're paying Costa alone what we pay Theo AND Ozil.
The same way rich people pay accountantsand lawyers to avoid taxes. Chelsea and City will be paying an army of them each to avoid FFP sanction. They've padded the figures. THAT'S how thier wage bill is lower.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly my thoughts.
Gt
If we are serious about progressing, it's just another thing to reckon with. Paying off agents should not prevent us from moving forward.
_________________________
Agree. I also want to progress and not happy with our transfer window, March. Think only that we have bigger issues in our team than our strike force. No player in the world guarantee you anything.
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 53 seconds ago
Gt
If we are serious about progressing, it's just another thing to reckon with. Paying off agents should not prevent us from moving forward.
_________________________
Agree. I also want to progress and not happy with our transfer window, March. Think only that we have bigger issues in our team than our strike force. No player in the world guarantee you anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd agree that a quality DM and a backup CD are the most pressing issues. However, having said that, I'd also keep improving on Giroud on the agenda.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
March and Jenius
I see where you're both coming from but the change from the lean years model has to be slow and easy. We can't go replacing 6,7 and 8 players per window. We've brought in Ozil last year. Now Sanchez then Chambers and Debuchy. Welbeck in too. Assuming we'll get a DM in Jan. That's enough change in personnel for one season. We can worry about moving other on out come seasons end. Several are out of contract anyway and as we never paid huge amounts for them, it won't really hur us to just let them leave and buy the replacements. One thing we don't have to do much of is making back transfer fees.
I know it's alot to say to Gooners a little more patience but that is what we have to do. Because going potty in the transfer market like some kid in a sweet shop handed his piggy bank will have us in trouble real quick. In football terms we are "rich" as opposed to City and Chelsea's "wealthy" You can't lose wealth. However a couple of dodgy transfers and there goes our rich.
We'll phase in the squad everyone wants over the next 2 seasons I reckon and I've no [problem with waiting. I'd rather do that and go 3rd, 2nd, 1st over seasons to win the title. Than get cash happy rag the squad silly and risk being nowhere near the top four for at least a year.
It's called creative accounting.
----------------------------
Not really because UEFA have a team of forensic accountants examining all clubs. They are very serious abt ffp so a club found cheating is punished more harshly.
Its very easy to dismiss good strategy by competitors.
Arsene Wenger has never been able to separate himself from the dressing room. Thats all the players love him when they leave. The truth is he is too close to the dressing room and he awards mediocrity. Dein was the bad cop to Wenger's player love-in and its no surprise we have not been near to winning the league since he left.
Because going potty in the transfer market like some kid in a sweet shop handed his piggy bank will have us in trouble real quick.
------------------------
I think you are missing the point wnm2. Arsenal are on a very poor strategy when it comes to contract renewals. They have lost the plot to a great extent since they have had money to spend. Wenger rightly blames not being able to keep the likes of Nasri, Adebayor, RVP, Cesc etc after seeing them win honours elsewhere as a lack of stability. He then uses that as an excuse for not winning major trophies. He forgets that when he did have those players there were other weaknesses which he ignored. We were always a proverbial 2 players away from the title. Why?
That comes poor assessment of player talent, lack of foresight in market movement, and the impact of a lack of customer satisfaction. Wenger does not understand he does not have the time he perceives. He needs instant success now or he will see his own brand collapse. The belief in Wenger is already very tainted after allowing RVP to leave and replacing him with less than stellar players. We won the Fa Cup last season but Wenger should have noticed how many empty seats there were during the season. The club only needs a slight drop in gate revenue and we will be foul of ffp. Handing out contracts willy-nilly is a very bad mistake unless the player is young and their is some of hope of a return. Using contracted 'names' who are not top performers as a reason for not bringing in better players only creates agro in the fan base because everyone can see that is the reason why we are always two players away from the title. That will always continue till Wenger gets ruthless with non-performing players.
That's just it though Jenius. The same way nobody who tax avoids is locked up because the rules and loopholes around taxes mean the tax avoidance isn't actually against the law...
Is the exact same way that the creative accounting measures won't be found to break the rules. A perfect example of this is the Lampard debacle. City have blatantly used an offiliate club to secure Lampard's services without having to pay a fee. Not even sure if City are even paying all his wages.
Now any fool or his dog can see what they have done but it's not going to be deemed as cheating FFP within the FFP rules framework. Although it blatantly is cheating and not at all a club behaving in the spirit of what the rule was intended for. Everyone said that FFP would be a joke and it is. City are making a mockery of it already and they'll blatantly get away with it too. Be sure that Chelsea are getting away with padding the figures in the same way
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New contracts for Giroud and Arteta
Page 3 of 4
posted on 30/9/14
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 10 minutes ago
Some really need to get real? Can we really pay the wages of the likes of Falcao, Cavani or on the other hand are these player available? This is not a FIFA game on your computer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are available if you actually put the effort in (we could have got Suarez if we did press the issue and approach the whole affair more competently) and have the pull.
Wages are an issue though. I do however think we can afford the players of Sanchezs and Ozils calibre but having squad members who contribute little and are on big wages doesn't help.
That's why I made the point against extending Artetas contract in the first place!
posted on 30/9/14
Suarez agree. Biggest regret I have. But we would have kept Giroud then, March.
posted on 30/9/14
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by march_2k (U10336)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Stuffing the squad with players who add little..."
Who do you mean with that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See my post above for example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Giroud is our top scorer though but respect that you cant stand him. Only an opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about not standing him. It's about wanting the best for the team.
How much is Costa on? I'd rather we paid that amount to a player of similar predatory ability than have us pay 80k to Giroud. It's that simple. Team takes priority over individual players.
posted on 30/9/14
Anyway we as fans and supporters cant change anything and havent got influence on these kind of internal issues. Just share views here
posted on 30/9/14
comment by WengersBodyguard2 (U8276)
posted 17 seconds ago
Nope. Chelsea, who will finish higher than also pay less than us over all.
Shows that the squad is poorly constructed compared to our closest genuine competitor, geographically and literally.
Why are we paying £80k to Giroud when we could pay £40k a week extra to Walcott and Ramsey who could get more elsewhere?
---------------------
Because we need to have strikers as well. Who plays up front when you give Giroud's 80 to Theo and Aaron instead?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Welbeck then Alexis and then Walcott and if necessary Sanogo.
Didn't Wenger buy Alexis specifically to play up front! His words!
But if you think Welbeck is not good enough to carry the attack then buy a striker who will be a starter good enough to be better than Welbeck, Alexis and Theo! Keep in mind there was time last season when Giroud was not even even good enough to start ahead of Sanogo!
Keep your definite starters on high wages and then pay the supporting cast lower money on the hope they can push for the starting position. Then sell the starter who has been demoted! Its quite simple and that way you don't allow you wages to hamstring on who you can buy or are forced to keep!
Wenger bought Pod, kept him while he preferred Santi in his position and occasionally Oxlade and then bought Alexis. What stability is Wenger rabbiting on about. It shows a man floundering and scared of taking the tough decisions.
In the meantime, Walcott will have less than 2 years left and will easily walk into Man City or Chelsea on 50% increase on his salary.
posted on 30/9/14
Some really need to get real? Can we really pay the wages of the likes of Falcao, Cavani or on the other hand are these player available? This is not a FIFA game on your computer.
------------------------
I swear people think it's as easy for Wenger as pushing buttons on a controller. People don't even stop to think "Well what happens when we pay Cavani 200k a week?" They all seem to reckon that he'll get that and Ramsey Walcott and co will just sit like mugs getting 100k. Because yes they'll all put up with being wage trumped that badly. We'd get our trousers pulled down and get bent over proper come contract reneg time.
Can't actually believe nobody seems to get the sports car explanation, thought it was a pretty good one myself. But then this is the age of living in debt well beyond our means just to own the latest mobile phone or tablet. So I shouldn't really be surprised that this lot can't grasp the difference between having the money to buy something and actually being able to afford to pay for it.
posted on 30/9/14
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
posted on 30/9/14
It's not about not standing him. It's about wanting the best for the team.
How much is Costa on? I'd rather we paid that amount to a player of similar predatory ability than have us pay 80k to Giroud. It's that simple. Team takes priority over individual players.
______________
Don't think we can Costa's wages. We cant compete with the likes of Chelsea and City on wages if they these teams compete with us about one player. Hazard is here a good example....
I dont think that Costa is worth his immense wages. He shines and scores at the moment....true but if you analyse his goals you have to come to the conclusion that a lot depend on Fabregas. But yes this pair work well together at the moment.
posted on 30/9/14
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 seconds ago
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe it's only a myths? Did the telegraph actually reveal if they imply the wages of all loanies? Why do you think that at the end of the business year Chelsea didnt make any profit?
posted on 30/9/14
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html
posted on 30/9/14
People also forget paying agents is more and more an issue.
posted on 30/9/14
I see what you're saying Jenius but that's not the model we've worked with for years now. We're at the tail end of the youngsters project where the idea was sign them young on higher than normal wages with long term contracts. Those young ones we've signed have smply had increases each reneg.
Working that way has got us to the point we're at now where we have the luxury to argue about affording Cavani. Your way is ideal and we'll no doubt return to that way now that our circumstances are ideal. But at the time our Theo and co were signed, we were in way less than ideal circumstances and had to come up with a way to compete. We did and now we can start to do it as you suggest. But we can't just start getting shot of players wholesale and change everything back overnight. The smart way to do it is gradually over a couple of seasons at least. Or we risk falling down the table due to too many changes in too many places too quickly. Mass wholesale squad change rarely does a team any good. Unless you're buying an entire squad a la City or Chelsea
posted on 30/9/14
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 53 seconds ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is exactly why having so many passengers hampers us so much. They eat up the budget for wages and on top of that, we cannot even get rid of them to get someone better.
posted on 30/9/14
WengersBodyguard2
Don't you see the issue? As our English core all mature well, we will not be able to afford to keep them. Especially if we need interim players because of injuries or lack of form (see Wilshere) because of keeping aged players on salaries we can't shift who have never been able to produce on the pitch. Which is the reason why they have been replaced in the first place!
Giroud is 28 with a long term injury and was never really good enough in the first place. Arteta 34. Now I will commend Wenger if he is able to shift Giroud at the end of the season for more than his loyalty bonus signing on fee. Giroud and Arteta are not wholesale changes. They should have been the start of a new era of acting like a big club. But Wenger is going all socialist that he admits nearly destroyed the club and frankly can still do so!
posted on 30/9/14
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
-------------------------------------
It's called creative accounting. There's no way Chelsea's true wage bill is lower than ours. They're paying Costa alone what we pay Theo AND Ozil.
The same way rich people pay accountantsand lawyers to avoid taxes. Chelsea and City will be paying an army of them each to avoid FFP sanction. They've padded the figures. THAT'S how thier wage bill is lower.
posted on 30/9/14
WB
The whole point of the youth project was supposedly to put is through the lean years. No one says we cannot gradually deviate from that approach. In fact we already have with Ozil and Sanchez.
Gt
If we are serious about progressing, it's just another thing to reckon with. Paying off agents should not prevent us from moving forward.
posted on 30/9/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/9/14
comment by WengersBodyguard2 (U8276)
posted 2 minutes ago
WengersBodyguard2
Do you think Chelsea can afford a £200k player?
If so, how come their wages are lower than ours?
-------------------------------------
It's called creative accounting. There's no way Chelsea's true wage bill is lower than ours. They're paying Costa alone what we pay Theo AND Ozil.
The same way rich people pay accountantsand lawyers to avoid taxes. Chelsea and City will be paying an army of them each to avoid FFP sanction. They've padded the figures. THAT'S how thier wage bill is lower.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly my thoughts.
posted on 30/9/14
Gt
If we are serious about progressing, it's just another thing to reckon with. Paying off agents should not prevent us from moving forward.
_________________________
Agree. I also want to progress and not happy with our transfer window, March. Think only that we have bigger issues in our team than our strike force. No player in the world guarantee you anything.
posted on 30/9/14
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 53 seconds ago
Gt
If we are serious about progressing, it's just another thing to reckon with. Paying off agents should not prevent us from moving forward.
_________________________
Agree. I also want to progress and not happy with our transfer window, March. Think only that we have bigger issues in our team than our strike force. No player in the world guarantee you anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd agree that a quality DM and a backup CD are the most pressing issues. However, having said that, I'd also keep improving on Giroud on the agenda.
posted on 30/9/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/9/14
March and Jenius
I see where you're both coming from but the change from the lean years model has to be slow and easy. We can't go replacing 6,7 and 8 players per window. We've brought in Ozil last year. Now Sanchez then Chambers and Debuchy. Welbeck in too. Assuming we'll get a DM in Jan. That's enough change in personnel for one season. We can worry about moving other on out come seasons end. Several are out of contract anyway and as we never paid huge amounts for them, it won't really hur us to just let them leave and buy the replacements. One thing we don't have to do much of is making back transfer fees.
I know it's alot to say to Gooners a little more patience but that is what we have to do. Because going potty in the transfer market like some kid in a sweet shop handed his piggy bank will have us in trouble real quick. In football terms we are "rich" as opposed to City and Chelsea's "wealthy" You can't lose wealth. However a couple of dodgy transfers and there goes our rich.
We'll phase in the squad everyone wants over the next 2 seasons I reckon and I've no [problem with waiting. I'd rather do that and go 3rd, 2nd, 1st over seasons to win the title. Than get cash happy rag the squad silly and risk being nowhere near the top four for at least a year.
posted on 30/9/14
It's called creative accounting.
----------------------------
Not really because UEFA have a team of forensic accountants examining all clubs. They are very serious abt ffp so a club found cheating is punished more harshly.
Its very easy to dismiss good strategy by competitors.
Arsene Wenger has never been able to separate himself from the dressing room. Thats all the players love him when they leave. The truth is he is too close to the dressing room and he awards mediocrity. Dein was the bad cop to Wenger's player love-in and its no surprise we have not been near to winning the league since he left.
posted on 30/9/14
Because going potty in the transfer market like some kid in a sweet shop handed his piggy bank will have us in trouble real quick.
------------------------
I think you are missing the point wnm2. Arsenal are on a very poor strategy when it comes to contract renewals. They have lost the plot to a great extent since they have had money to spend. Wenger rightly blames not being able to keep the likes of Nasri, Adebayor, RVP, Cesc etc after seeing them win honours elsewhere as a lack of stability. He then uses that as an excuse for not winning major trophies. He forgets that when he did have those players there were other weaknesses which he ignored. We were always a proverbial 2 players away from the title. Why?
That comes poor assessment of player talent, lack of foresight in market movement, and the impact of a lack of customer satisfaction. Wenger does not understand he does not have the time he perceives. He needs instant success now or he will see his own brand collapse. The belief in Wenger is already very tainted after allowing RVP to leave and replacing him with less than stellar players. We won the Fa Cup last season but Wenger should have noticed how many empty seats there were during the season. The club only needs a slight drop in gate revenue and we will be foul of ffp. Handing out contracts willy-nilly is a very bad mistake unless the player is young and their is some of hope of a return. Using contracted 'names' who are not top performers as a reason for not bringing in better players only creates agro in the fan base because everyone can see that is the reason why we are always two players away from the title. That will always continue till Wenger gets ruthless with non-performing players.
posted on 30/9/14
That's just it though Jenius. The same way nobody who tax avoids is locked up because the rules and loopholes around taxes mean the tax avoidance isn't actually against the law...
Is the exact same way that the creative accounting measures won't be found to break the rules. A perfect example of this is the Lampard debacle. City have blatantly used an offiliate club to secure Lampard's services without having to pay a fee. Not even sure if City are even paying all his wages.
Now any fool or his dog can see what they have done but it's not going to be deemed as cheating FFP within the FFP rules framework. Although it blatantly is cheating and not at all a club behaving in the spirit of what the rule was intended for. Everyone said that FFP would be a joke and it is. City are making a mockery of it already and they'll blatantly get away with it too. Be sure that Chelsea are getting away with padding the figures in the same way
Page 3 of 4