The problem with stats is, they'll never tell you the outcome of the foregone alternative. You know how well the players in the team have done, but no way of telling if the team would be better or worse of with somebody else in the team.
Not saying he should be dropped like.
Fair comment, Corporal. But, I think we'd be hard pushed to find someone capable of leapfrogging the likes of Wilshire, Modric, Silva, Fabregas, Malouda and Nasri. Just think of the names that didn't even make this list.
Credit where it's due.
Nice one, Finlay. I think those Opta stats require no analysis, they speak for themselves.
Every time we lose a game this season, an article stating that one out of Jussi, SKD or Muamba are rubbish and should be dropped will appear. Just like last season. They may even be accompanied by images of dog faeces if written by the inarticulate, and if we're really unlucky.
No doubt from people who would be happy to have Nasri, Malouda, Fabregas, Silva, Modric, Wilshere, Arteta, Murphy or Adam in our side.
I think it's a decent stat. Alot of clubs that operate with fast flowing football have a big man to control and distribute. Look at the performance of Dzeko on Sunday.. City had Milner, Aguero and Silva milling about feeding off him...
We could do that with Davies. And with his distribution figures, he clearly can.
It's a decent stat, but it doesn't change my opinion that I would like him to be dropped more often.
Decent stat, that.
Look at it closely though. All of the other players are generally midfield players.
This just shows how much we used Davies last seaaon and how much we avoided going through the middle of the pitch.
IMO we became too predictable toward the end of the season, going to SKD more often than not. Although this stat shows he clearly keeps the ball well, I hope that Coyle uses him less this season, thus utilizing the strengths of our ball playing midfielders.
Robot, all those midfielders are all attacking or attack minded midfielders.
Towards the end of last season, we didn't have anybody of any sort of quality in our CM (apart from Muamba and we all know his passing skills) which is why we tailed off imo.
I'd love to see them successful passes as a percentage of attempted passes to see where that'd leave Davies in the division. A large amount of those passes will be from flick-ons too so it is in no way a suggestion of Davies ability to pass a ball, again, I'd love to see stats regarding Davies' passing along the floor and how many times he gives the ball away from mis-control and passing, or his total number of dribbles over the season compared to other strikers, or indeed total number of fouls given against him, and yes he may win free-kicks but the amount of needless fouls he gives away quelling any ambition we had to attack and keeping us pinned in our own half for longer than we should infuriates me. Case in point, the foul on Paddy Kenny at QPR last week in the corner flag when we were about to win a corner - absolutely no need, someone claimed that this was one of the turning points of the game - delusional ! - and just attempting to make Davies' part in the victory seem larger than it actually was.
Another thing is, this is one stat that has been provided to prove that Davies is important to the team, but like has been mentioned most players on this list are midfielders so a striker shouldn't be being compared on these sort of stats.
Another thing is the amount of 'ground' Davies supposedly covers in a game, whilst he does work hard I'd again love to see the stats on this as in my view, most of the games he is immobile.
If Davies wasn't getting beyond his best, people wouldn't find the need to produce articles proving how he isn't past his best everytime he has a good match (which is becoming less frequent) ... Although I am not suggesting Davies doesn't still have a large role to play at BWFC I find the constant bigging up of every little thing he does ridiculous and think he should be slowly phased out of the team this season and used as a big-man impact sub.
Agreed, one statistic in isolation is misleading. Whenever someone has the audacity to even slightly question SKD, people wheel out every stat they can find as to why he's completely undroppable.
This statistic isn't suprising, considering the amount of play that goes through him. What's more important is the amount of successful passes that the team as a whole completes, and I'd imagine we are somewhere near the bottom in that department. I'd go so far as to bet, that while say if we replace Davies with Tuncay he'd probably have less successful passes in the final third, but I'm sure our approach as a whole would change, so that we would have more passes, and as such more successful ones, in the final third.
Only one of those players played in every game last season, like Davies did.
Everyone said this last season. In the cup games that Davies was dropped, our attack toothless and worse then crep. Short memories.
Everyone said this last season. In the cup games that Davies was dropped, our attack toothless and worse then crep. Short memories.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in several games in which he played we were 'crep'.
You can't use that cup game as an example, because it wasn't the first team with Davies swapped for somebody else, there would have been several other changes made, so you can't attribute the poor performance solely to his absence. Such a narrow-minded approach.
Our worst Cup game last season was the FA Cup semi-final...
Our worst Cup game last season was the FA Cup semi-final...
--
Where the whole team played bad, not just Davies.....
--
Whenever someone has the audacity to even slightly question SKD, people wheel out every stat they can find as to why he's completely undroppable.
---
Someone using stats to back up an argument....Shocking
Someone using stats to back up an argument....Shocking
But like I said stats in isolation are misleading, but you conveniently ignored that part.
But like I said stats in isolation are misleading, but you conveniently ignored that part.
--
Ok, he was one of our top assisters last season and one of our top scorers.
This season, hes been integral in most of the build up play for our goals and has scored one...
I should hope so, considering that's his job...
Ok, he was one of our top assisters last season and one of our top scorers. But then, he was on penalties, he scored 3/4 from open play.
I'm not questioned his contribution anyway, I'm just putting forward the idea, that team stats and not individual player ones are more important, and you can't assess how well the team would do without him in the team if you never try it.
There are other stats which show how he detracts from our game to, top of the fouling charts by a good way, and only stoke and blackburn had less passes than us last season. This shows the impact that his presence on the pitch has on our overall style of play. But, as I've said you can't put too much faith in stats.
I should hope so, considering that's his job...
--
If we drop him, we will lose these and replace it with an unknown quantity expecting other players to take up the slack in regards to assists and expect the goals to come from, at the moment a player who has blown hot and cold in the premier league in the past...
Yes he was one of our top scorers, but he is in no way prolific and doesn't score enough for our leading frontman. Jaaskelainen would have been one of our top scorers last season if he'd had 5 or 6 penalties to take...
If we drop him our style of play will rely less on him and allow other players to provide the assists and goals, how is Klasnic expected to provide assists if the back four and goalkeeper lump it to his strikepartner every attack, not much he can do about that.
If we drop him our style of play will rely less on him and allow other players to provide the assists and goals, how is Klasnic expected to provide assists if the back four and goalkeeper lump it to his strikepartner every attack, not much he can do about that.
--
How do we know that the players are going to automatically replace SKDs contribution?
If it isn't broken, don't fix it IMO.
And with that attitude we'd still be in the dark ages, change needs to be embraced in order for progress to be made
And with that attitude we'd still be in the dark ages, change needs to be embraced in order for progress to be made
--
Thats true but it works, we can tweak the team but lets not just drop one of the most important parts of our team just for progress sake...
But this is what I'm saying, I think his importance is waning and now is the time to try out different things now that we no longer rely on him as much (we still do rely on him to an extent and he still has a role to play) I just think that Davies strengths are slowing the footballing revolution of Coyle and other players should be given a try
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There's Life In The Old Dog Yet
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posted on 23/8/11
The problem with stats is, they'll never tell you the outcome of the foregone alternative. You know how well the players in the team have done, but no way of telling if the team would be better or worse of with somebody else in the team.
Not saying he should be dropped like.
posted on 23/8/11
Fair comment, Corporal. But, I think we'd be hard pushed to find someone capable of leapfrogging the likes of Wilshire, Modric, Silva, Fabregas, Malouda and Nasri. Just think of the names that didn't even make this list.
Credit where it's due.
posted on 23/8/11
Nice one, Finlay. I think those Opta stats require no analysis, they speak for themselves.
Every time we lose a game this season, an article stating that one out of Jussi, SKD or Muamba are rubbish and should be dropped will appear. Just like last season. They may even be accompanied by images of dog faeces if written by the inarticulate, and if we're really unlucky.
No doubt from people who would be happy to have Nasri, Malouda, Fabregas, Silva, Modric, Wilshere, Arteta, Murphy or Adam in our side.
posted on 23/8/11
I think it's a decent stat. Alot of clubs that operate with fast flowing football have a big man to control and distribute. Look at the performance of Dzeko on Sunday.. City had Milner, Aguero and Silva milling about feeding off him...
We could do that with Davies. And with his distribution figures, he clearly can.
posted on 23/8/11
It's a decent stat, but it doesn't change my opinion that I would like him to be dropped more often.
posted on 23/8/11
Decent stat, that.
Look at it closely though. All of the other players are generally midfield players.
This just shows how much we used Davies last seaaon and how much we avoided going through the middle of the pitch.
IMO we became too predictable toward the end of the season, going to SKD more often than not. Although this stat shows he clearly keeps the ball well, I hope that Coyle uses him less this season, thus utilizing the strengths of our ball playing midfielders.
posted on 23/8/11
Robot, all those midfielders are all attacking or attack minded midfielders.
Towards the end of last season, we didn't have anybody of any sort of quality in our CM (apart from Muamba and we all know his passing skills) which is why we tailed off imo.
posted on 23/8/11
I'd love to see them successful passes as a percentage of attempted passes to see where that'd leave Davies in the division. A large amount of those passes will be from flick-ons too so it is in no way a suggestion of Davies ability to pass a ball, again, I'd love to see stats regarding Davies' passing along the floor and how many times he gives the ball away from mis-control and passing, or his total number of dribbles over the season compared to other strikers, or indeed total number of fouls given against him, and yes he may win free-kicks but the amount of needless fouls he gives away quelling any ambition we had to attack and keeping us pinned in our own half for longer than we should infuriates me. Case in point, the foul on Paddy Kenny at QPR last week in the corner flag when we were about to win a corner - absolutely no need, someone claimed that this was one of the turning points of the game - delusional ! - and just attempting to make Davies' part in the victory seem larger than it actually was.
Another thing is, this is one stat that has been provided to prove that Davies is important to the team, but like has been mentioned most players on this list are midfielders so a striker shouldn't be being compared on these sort of stats.
Another thing is the amount of 'ground' Davies supposedly covers in a game, whilst he does work hard I'd again love to see the stats on this as in my view, most of the games he is immobile.
If Davies wasn't getting beyond his best, people wouldn't find the need to produce articles proving how he isn't past his best everytime he has a good match (which is becoming less frequent) ... Although I am not suggesting Davies doesn't still have a large role to play at BWFC I find the constant bigging up of every little thing he does ridiculous and think he should be slowly phased out of the team this season and used as a big-man impact sub.
posted on 23/8/11
Agreed, one statistic in isolation is misleading. Whenever someone has the audacity to even slightly question SKD, people wheel out every stat they can find as to why he's completely undroppable.
This statistic isn't suprising, considering the amount of play that goes through him. What's more important is the amount of successful passes that the team as a whole completes, and I'd imagine we are somewhere near the bottom in that department. I'd go so far as to bet, that while say if we replace Davies with Tuncay he'd probably have less successful passes in the final third, but I'm sure our approach as a whole would change, so that we would have more passes, and as such more successful ones, in the final third.
posted on 23/8/11
Only one of those players played in every game last season, like Davies did.
posted on 23/8/11
Everyone said this last season. In the cup games that Davies was dropped, our attack toothless and worse then crep. Short memories.
posted on 23/8/11
Everyone said this last season. In the cup games that Davies was dropped, our attack toothless and worse then crep. Short memories.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in several games in which he played we were 'crep'.
You can't use that cup game as an example, because it wasn't the first team with Davies swapped for somebody else, there would have been several other changes made, so you can't attribute the poor performance solely to his absence. Such a narrow-minded approach.
posted on 23/8/11
Our worst Cup game last season was the FA Cup semi-final...
posted on 23/8/11
Our worst Cup game last season was the FA Cup semi-final...
--
Where the whole team played bad, not just Davies.....
--
Whenever someone has the audacity to even slightly question SKD, people wheel out every stat they can find as to why he's completely undroppable.
---
Someone using stats to back up an argument....Shocking
posted on 23/8/11
Someone using stats to back up an argument....Shocking
But like I said stats in isolation are misleading, but you conveniently ignored that part.
posted on 23/8/11
But like I said stats in isolation are misleading, but you conveniently ignored that part.
--
Ok, he was one of our top assisters last season and one of our top scorers.
This season, hes been integral in most of the build up play for our goals and has scored one...
posted on 23/8/11
I should hope so, considering that's his job...
posted on 23/8/11
Ok, he was one of our top assisters last season and one of our top scorers. But then, he was on penalties, he scored 3/4 from open play.
I'm not questioned his contribution anyway, I'm just putting forward the idea, that team stats and not individual player ones are more important, and you can't assess how well the team would do without him in the team if you never try it.
There are other stats which show how he detracts from our game to, top of the fouling charts by a good way, and only stoke and blackburn had less passes than us last season. This shows the impact that his presence on the pitch has on our overall style of play. But, as I've said you can't put too much faith in stats.
posted on 23/8/11
I should hope so, considering that's his job...
--
If we drop him, we will lose these and replace it with an unknown quantity expecting other players to take up the slack in regards to assists and expect the goals to come from, at the moment a player who has blown hot and cold in the premier league in the past...
posted on 23/8/11
Yes he was one of our top scorers, but he is in no way prolific and doesn't score enough for our leading frontman. Jaaskelainen would have been one of our top scorers last season if he'd had 5 or 6 penalties to take...
posted on 23/8/11
If we drop him our style of play will rely less on him and allow other players to provide the assists and goals, how is Klasnic expected to provide assists if the back four and goalkeeper lump it to his strikepartner every attack, not much he can do about that.
posted on 23/8/11
If we drop him our style of play will rely less on him and allow other players to provide the assists and goals, how is Klasnic expected to provide assists if the back four and goalkeeper lump it to his strikepartner every attack, not much he can do about that.
--
How do we know that the players are going to automatically replace SKDs contribution?
If it isn't broken, don't fix it IMO.
posted on 23/8/11
And with that attitude we'd still be in the dark ages, change needs to be embraced in order for progress to be made
posted on 23/8/11
And with that attitude we'd still be in the dark ages, change needs to be embraced in order for progress to be made
--
Thats true but it works, we can tweak the team but lets not just drop one of the most important parts of our team just for progress sake...
posted on 23/8/11
But this is what I'm saying, I think his importance is waning and now is the time to try out different things now that we no longer rely on him as much (we still do rely on him to an extent and he still has a role to play) I just think that Davies strengths are slowing the footballing revolution of Coyle and other players should be given a try
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