comment by Dont cry for me Argentina we have Pochetinno and Lamela (formely avb easy as 123) (U17539)
posted 21 minutes ago
im afraid to say United are a couple of top defenders away from having a formidable side again.
The attacking talent they have at their disposal is incredible.
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we really dont have that much attacking talent.
rooney > declining rapidly
falcao > injury waiting to happen + unproven in PL
di maria > more inconsistent than englands weather
van persie > past it
januzaj > too young
valencia > gash
rafael > weaker than the weakest glass ever made
Blind > actually pretty decent
Herrara > not seen enough
Fellaini >
Where is our ridiculous attacking talent at disposal, ty
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by itsonlyagame - I used to be a PL fan but then I saw the light. (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
^
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cösign
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Tbh, was meant as an agreement with Wonder Man, not Chris. I'd be much more confident having LvG rather than Moyes trying to make things happen.
Don't agree that he's past it either. Did very well with a not-so-good Dutch side at the World Cup, did the domestic double with Bayern and took them to the CL final in 2010, and engineered a minor miracle in guiding AZ to the Dutch title the year before.
"Having no European football should be a godsend if you want to try and break into the top 4. "
Worked for Liverpool because they had a small squad and once they got a run together in January they could see the finish line early on and focus on it.
With United, it looks a bit of an issue - trying to get multiple players fit and sharp whilst trying to gel the team together only playing once a week must be difficult
in fairness to United, there really wasn't much to choose from as far as defenders go
do you by for the sake of buying or do you choose to let Smalling, Jones, Evans and Rojo try and form a settled set of partnerships
hindsight is easy, but they were looking at Hummels with no joy at getting him to move
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 minutes ago
"Because without an unlucky amount of injuries to defenders"
Is it unlucky? Didn't you guys get rid of both Vidic and Rio and replace them with Rojo?
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vidic and rio are awful
we got rid because they cannot cut it at the top level
same with evra, so not sure what else we are meant to do.
with everyone fit - jones/evans/smalling/rojo, the defence is more than good enough. We also have blackett and mcnair who look incredible for their age.
saying that, I think we wanted one experienced defender but benatia went to bayern, and hummels wasn't going anywhere.
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Having no European football should be a godsend if you want to try and break into the top 4. "
Worked for Liverpool because they had a small squad and once they got a run together in January they could see the finish line early on and focus on it.
With United, it looks a bit of an issue - trying to get multiple players fit and sharp whilst trying to gel the team together only playing once a week must be difficult
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Biggest excuse ever. He has a whole week to prepare in between games and a big squad of talented players to choose from, that should be a benefit not a disadvantage.
United couldn't even beat Burnley for Christ's sake.
Heisenberg, my point wasn't really about ability.
It was about Rio & Vidic playing 67 times between them last season and LvG bringing in only Rojo to replace them - not sure how this was ever meant to work out?
Particuarly when the likes of Smalling and Jones has never put in consistent, injury free spells in the team
So do you agree with me that it's not really bad luck that you're struggling to fill defensive slots - rather bad business in the transfer window?
---
Both really. We needed to get another decent CB in, at least, and use Smalling/Jones/Evans as back ups. Unfortunately we didn't but to be honest, we have 4 CBs, it shouldn't be the case that they're all injured all the time. Yes they have poor injury records, but it's bad luck that their injuries are all aligned.
the benefits of not being in Europe are not only completely overblown, I think they're backwards prior to xmas.
you need players to gel, get fully match fit, etc.
IMO not being in Europe + not having the Carling cup is actually hurting them at this point in the season
comment by Dont cry for me Argentina we have Pochetinno and Lamela (formely avb easy as 123) (U17539)
posted 35 minutes ago
im afraid to say United are a couple of top defenders away from having a formidable side again.
The attacking talent they have at their disposal is incredible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, but doesn't change the fact they have spent more than enough to have a decent defence. their squad has been assembled for approx £402 million
"the benefits of not being in Europe are not only completely overblown, I think they're backwards prior to xmas.
you need players to gel, get fully match fit, etc.
IMO not being in Europe + not having the Carling cup is actually hurting them at this point in the season"
This is what I meant, Spurtle.
I get that you can get your players fresher and fitter but match fitness and sharpness only comes through competitive game time. Wouldn't normally necessarily be a problem, certainly isn't for 13 or 14 of the teams not in Europe, but when you are trying to bed in 6 or 7 new players it's at least as much of a disadvantage as an advantage
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 44 seconds ago
Heisenberg, my point wasn't really about ability.
It was about Rio & Vidic playing 67 times between them last season and LvG bringing in only Rojo to replace them - not sure how this was ever meant to work out?
Particuarly when the likes of Smalling and Jones has never put in consistent, injury free spells in the team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
im pretty sure rio and vidic had their fair share of injury problems over the last two seasons. especially vidic.
rojo was brought in with the hope that one of the three (smalling/evans/jones) would step up their games. we also had blackett emerging and LVG is known to give youth a chances.
it's a wait an see until january for LVG in regards to the defence, but even in january i cannot think of any top defenders that would come to us that would improve us drastically. LVG must have thought the same in the summer.
Last few games have shown that the defence has tightened up, even if its make shift, we are defending more as a team and improving. The attack has suffered as a result but I think the balance is getting there.
comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 4 minutes ago
the benefits of not being in Europe are not only completely overblown, I think they're backwards prior to xmas.
you need players to gel, get fully match fit, etc.
IMO not being in Europe + not having the Carling cup is actually hurting them at this point in the season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed
players like falcao who is a beast needed these carling cup games to get dfit. i dont mind us being out of all competitions in january but right now we need the games.
imo United's biggest mistake was dumping their three most experienced defenders all at once
should have used the money spent on Falcao to go the whole hog for a world class defender
"imo United's biggest mistake was dumping their three most experienced defenders all at once"
Agree, but it was probably down to Fergie & Moyes for letting them all get to that age at the same time.
Look at Arsenal - we could have kept Sagna for another year and not had to spend £9m on Debuchy, but we have our two CB's coming up to 30 and 31 so best to gradually replace them rather than all 3 at once.
Agree, but it was probably down to Fergie & Moyes for letting them all get to that age at the same time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------you do know Fergie & Moyes can't stop time right
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
Agree, but it was probably down to Fergie & Moyes for letting them all get to that age at the same time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------you do know Fergie & Moyes can't stop time right
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what I mean
Fergie time would suggest he can.
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 minutes ago
"Because without an unlucky amount of injuries to defenders"
Is it unlucky? Didn't you guys get rid of both Vidic and Rio and replace them with Rojo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
vidic and rio are awful
we got rid because they cannot cut it at the top level
same with evra, so not sure what else we are meant to do.
with everyone fit - jones/evans/smalling/rojo, the defence is more than good enough. We also have blackett and mcnair who look incredible for their age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones/Smalling/Evans have never shown themselves to be top class and certainly nowhere near the calibre of their City/Chelsea equivalents.
Just seen a stat on sky showing Untied are worse off than last year. Having spent all that money why arent the United fans getting on Buttheads back about this
-------------------------
The media have made a big fuss about this but anyone with a brain can see that there is no comparison.
Moyes took over from champions, LVG picked up the pieces after we finished 7th.
Moyes did ok at the start of the season but got worse and worse as the season went on. LVG is showing the opposite trend (which is surely preferable).
Moyes hardly made any personnel changes - he signed one player and sold none. Thus, there was some continuity at the start of the season. LVG has turfed out 19 players and brought in 6. Does it take a genius to work out that it takes longer to integrate 6 new players than just one?
Finally, Moyes could have spent as much money as he wanted. That he did not was one of his biggest mistakes. Furthermore, part of the reason we needed to spend "all that money" this summer was in order to repair the damage done by Moyes.
Moyes was given 10 months. Lets see how LVG's team is doing after 10 months. That is really the only relevant comparison. Comparing points totals at this stage of the season is not only meaningless, it is actually quite stupid.
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posted on 3/11/14
comment by Dont cry for me Argentina we have Pochetinno and Lamela (formely avb easy as 123) (U17539)
posted 21 minutes ago
im afraid to say United are a couple of top defenders away from having a formidable side again.
The attacking talent they have at their disposal is incredible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we really dont have that much attacking talent.
rooney > declining rapidly
falcao > injury waiting to happen + unproven in PL
di maria > more inconsistent than englands weather
van persie > past it
januzaj > too young
valencia > gash
rafael > weaker than the weakest glass ever made
Blind > actually pretty decent
Herrara > not seen enough
Fellaini >
Where is our ridiculous attacking talent at disposal, ty
posted on 3/11/14
comment by The_Red_Cognoscente (U9741)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by itsonlyagame - I used to be a PL fan but then I saw the light. (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
^
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cösign
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbh, was meant as an agreement with Wonder Man, not Chris. I'd be much more confident having LvG rather than Moyes trying to make things happen.
Don't agree that he's past it either. Did very well with a not-so-good Dutch side at the World Cup, did the domestic double with Bayern and took them to the CL final in 2010, and engineered a minor miracle in guiding AZ to the Dutch title the year before.
posted on 3/11/14
"Having no European football should be a godsend if you want to try and break into the top 4. "
Worked for Liverpool because they had a small squad and once they got a run together in January they could see the finish line early on and focus on it.
With United, it looks a bit of an issue - trying to get multiple players fit and sharp whilst trying to gel the team together only playing once a week must be difficult
posted on 3/11/14
in fairness to United, there really wasn't much to choose from as far as defenders go
do you by for the sake of buying or do you choose to let Smalling, Jones, Evans and Rojo try and form a settled set of partnerships
hindsight is easy, but they were looking at Hummels with no joy at getting him to move
posted on 3/11/14
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 minutes ago
"Because without an unlucky amount of injuries to defenders"
Is it unlucky? Didn't you guys get rid of both Vidic and Rio and replace them with Rojo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
vidic and rio are awful
we got rid because they cannot cut it at the top level
same with evra, so not sure what else we are meant to do.
with everyone fit - jones/evans/smalling/rojo, the defence is more than good enough. We also have blackett and mcnair who look incredible for their age.
saying that, I think we wanted one experienced defender but benatia went to bayern, and hummels wasn't going anywhere.
posted on 3/11/14
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Having no European football should be a godsend if you want to try and break into the top 4. "
Worked for Liverpool because they had a small squad and once they got a run together in January they could see the finish line early on and focus on it.
With United, it looks a bit of an issue - trying to get multiple players fit and sharp whilst trying to gel the team together only playing once a week must be difficult
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Biggest excuse ever. He has a whole week to prepare in between games and a big squad of talented players to choose from, that should be a benefit not a disadvantage.
United couldn't even beat Burnley for Christ's sake.
posted on 3/11/14
Heisenberg, my point wasn't really about ability.
It was about Rio & Vidic playing 67 times between them last season and LvG bringing in only Rojo to replace them - not sure how this was ever meant to work out?
Particuarly when the likes of Smalling and Jones has never put in consistent, injury free spells in the team
posted on 3/11/14
So do you agree with me that it's not really bad luck that you're struggling to fill defensive slots - rather bad business in the transfer window?
---
Both really. We needed to get another decent CB in, at least, and use Smalling/Jones/Evans as back ups. Unfortunately we didn't but to be honest, we have 4 CBs, it shouldn't be the case that they're all injured all the time. Yes they have poor injury records, but it's bad luck that their injuries are all aligned.
posted on 3/11/14
the benefits of not being in Europe are not only completely overblown, I think they're backwards prior to xmas.
you need players to gel, get fully match fit, etc.
IMO not being in Europe + not having the Carling cup is actually hurting them at this point in the season
posted on 3/11/14
comment by Dont cry for me Argentina we have Pochetinno and Lamela (formely avb easy as 123) (U17539)
posted 35 minutes ago
im afraid to say United are a couple of top defenders away from having a formidable side again.
The attacking talent they have at their disposal is incredible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, but doesn't change the fact they have spent more than enough to have a decent defence. their squad has been assembled for approx £402 million
posted on 3/11/14
"the benefits of not being in Europe are not only completely overblown, I think they're backwards prior to xmas.
you need players to gel, get fully match fit, etc.
IMO not being in Europe + not having the Carling cup is actually hurting them at this point in the season"
This is what I meant, Spurtle.
I get that you can get your players fresher and fitter but match fitness and sharpness only comes through competitive game time. Wouldn't normally necessarily be a problem, certainly isn't for 13 or 14 of the teams not in Europe, but when you are trying to bed in 6 or 7 new players it's at least as much of a disadvantage as an advantage
posted on 3/11/14
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 44 seconds ago
Heisenberg, my point wasn't really about ability.
It was about Rio & Vidic playing 67 times between them last season and LvG bringing in only Rojo to replace them - not sure how this was ever meant to work out?
Particuarly when the likes of Smalling and Jones has never put in consistent, injury free spells in the team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
im pretty sure rio and vidic had their fair share of injury problems over the last two seasons. especially vidic.
rojo was brought in with the hope that one of the three (smalling/evans/jones) would step up their games. we also had blackett emerging and LVG is known to give youth a chances.
it's a wait an see until january for LVG in regards to the defence, but even in january i cannot think of any top defenders that would come to us that would improve us drastically. LVG must have thought the same in the summer.
Last few games have shown that the defence has tightened up, even if its make shift, we are defending more as a team and improving. The attack has suffered as a result but I think the balance is getting there.
posted on 3/11/14
comment by The Kaiser's Trainers (U5676)
posted 4 minutes ago
the benefits of not being in Europe are not only completely overblown, I think they're backwards prior to xmas.
you need players to gel, get fully match fit, etc.
IMO not being in Europe + not having the Carling cup is actually hurting them at this point in the season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed
players like falcao who is a beast needed these carling cup games to get dfit. i dont mind us being out of all competitions in january but right now we need the games.
posted on 3/11/14
imo United's biggest mistake was dumping their three most experienced defenders all at once
should have used the money spent on Falcao to go the whole hog for a world class defender
posted on 3/11/14
"imo United's biggest mistake was dumping their three most experienced defenders all at once"
Agree, but it was probably down to Fergie & Moyes for letting them all get to that age at the same time.
Look at Arsenal - we could have kept Sagna for another year and not had to spend £9m on Debuchy, but we have our two CB's coming up to 30 and 31 so best to gradually replace them rather than all 3 at once.
posted on 3/11/14
Agree, but it was probably down to Fergie & Moyes for letting them all get to that age at the same time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------you do know Fergie & Moyes can't stop time right
posted on 3/11/14
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 6 minutes ago
Agree, but it was probably down to Fergie & Moyes for letting them all get to that age at the same time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------you do know Fergie & Moyes can't stop time right
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know what I mean
posted on 3/11/14
Fergie could.
posted on 3/11/14
Fergie time would suggest he can.
posted on 3/11/14
comment by Heisenberg (U9091)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 17 minutes ago
"Because without an unlucky amount of injuries to defenders"
Is it unlucky? Didn't you guys get rid of both Vidic and Rio and replace them with Rojo?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
vidic and rio are awful
we got rid because they cannot cut it at the top level
same with evra, so not sure what else we are meant to do.
with everyone fit - jones/evans/smalling/rojo, the defence is more than good enough. We also have blackett and mcnair who look incredible for their age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones/Smalling/Evans have never shown themselves to be top class and certainly nowhere near the calibre of their City/Chelsea equivalents.
posted on 3/11/14
Who are Untied?
posted on 3/11/14
Just seen a stat on sky showing Untied are worse off than last year. Having spent all that money why arent the United fans getting on Buttheads back about this
-------------------------
The media have made a big fuss about this but anyone with a brain can see that there is no comparison.
Moyes took over from champions, LVG picked up the pieces after we finished 7th.
Moyes did ok at the start of the season but got worse and worse as the season went on. LVG is showing the opposite trend (which is surely preferable).
Moyes hardly made any personnel changes - he signed one player and sold none. Thus, there was some continuity at the start of the season. LVG has turfed out 19 players and brought in 6. Does it take a genius to work out that it takes longer to integrate 6 new players than just one?
Finally, Moyes could have spent as much money as he wanted. That he did not was one of his biggest mistakes. Furthermore, part of the reason we needed to spend "all that money" this summer was in order to repair the damage done by Moyes.
Moyes was given 10 months. Lets see how LVG's team is doing after 10 months. That is really the only relevant comparison. Comparing points totals at this stage of the season is not only meaningless, it is actually quite stupid.
posted on 4/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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