BTW Mancini teams performance wise in champions league was far worse, pub team level bailed out by Joe Hart. I think Hart made like 50 saves on average in each of Mancini last 2 campaigns.

Kinsang - They are not as great as everyone believes and fed up of hearing United fans of all people eulogising about them. And in Europe are naive tactically and inept. It's not just confidence. They regularly get outnumbered in midfield and the teams are technical and do their homework. City's FBs aren't allowed to waltz unchallenged to the byeline and have actually to defend too.
We had the same all those years ago losing to teams like Gothenburg, naively bombing forward and trying to play offside traps against sharp teams.
I maintain that Russian side have some very good footballers as do the teams near the top of every league. That's why they play in the CL.
City are like England and their golden generation. Overhyped and don't know how to play this competition jut as England regularly qualify easily and then come unstuck in the tournaments. Too predictable etc

Iron Tulip - I recoginse that City are a good team, if you can't/don't then you are just kidding yourself. Look at Arsenal - make it pass the group stages consistently, do they change their style of play??!! As I said before, City have players and a style of play that is good enough to beat most teams, regardless of being in Europe or not, they just don't apply themselves in the right way.

Look at how we won in 99 - we bombed forward at every occasion. City strive to be at the level of Real, Barca, Bayern etc, but aren't anywhere near it yet, and it's nothing to do with tactics, it's to get the players thinking that they are as good as these teams and having the arrogance of these teams also.

I go back to the Arsenal point - City can play just as well and in a similar way to Arsenal, but Arsenal have that confidence in Europe, City do not.

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I don't deny City are a good team, they aren't great. If they won back to back PL titles it would be a start. If they got to CL finals too.
Disagree, they are miles off Bayern and Real Madrid. That's not to say they could't beat them in a one-off game either.
It's a combination of mental and naivety. Toure has been awful in Europe for example and should be dropped in some games. They don't make the right calls, are not courageous enough and continue to be naive.
As for Arsenal, they always get through the group bu come second always and then play a better team and get knocked out. Same will happen. You could say they have a block too. They are naive time and time again and the manager as well as players takes the wrap as far as I am concerned. Merson etc all said it again last night. Typical Arsenal.
Only Chelsea and their manager of the PL teams atm have the mentality, nous to go far

Not this season. Bilbao have been waank this season.

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 52 seconds ago
The myth that the PL is the best league is constantly being destroyed. The likes of City, Arsenal and Pool are nothing special. Only Chelsea are a side of real note atm due to Jose. The general standard of the PL is average compared to La Liga for example. I'd fancy Atletico for example to beat every side in the PL and the likes of Bilbao and Valencia to beat most PL teams. Barca and Madrid may be better than every team in La Liga but the likes of Atletico, Bilbao and Valencia are better than most PL teams.
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Agreed. But you will get slated for airing those views here. The Greek team that Spurs play tomorrow that nobody heard of played very good football for example and were unlucky to lose. I expect them to get a result tomorrow and Spurs are supposed to be top 6 or 7 side for example.

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Not this season. Bilbao have been waank this season.
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Here we go again..they would probably beat us if we played them tomorrow !
Were you the one that reckoned no way Swansea would beat us first game of the season too and were relegation candidates ? You like to shout your mouth off don't you?!

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They're three points above the relegation zone and have one point in their CL group. They certainly have been waank this season.

I said we should be beating Swansea with the team we had out. And I stand by that.

Early days for them, they still could battle relegation seeing how there's not a great points difference between them and the bottom three.

Not sure what your problem is because I have a difference in opinion and don't rate a shiiit Russian team.

I agree that the PL isn't as good as La Liga, though.

But Bilbao was a poor example to use given how bad they've been.

Look like being this seasons Sociedad in the CL as well.

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 2 minutes ago
The Iron Tulip has landed (U17867)

May do but its the truth. The PL is over hyped but it's not close to La Liga and there are a lot of really poor sides in the league too. Our teams are really not that good and they are being shown up in the CL where it really matters. Beating a couple of mid ranged PL teams does not count for much if you can't beat the best on the continent. It's what annoys me about our CL record which really is quite mediocre for a club that prides itself as one of the best.
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We should have won it more than twice under SAF and has has acknowledged that. The semi final defeats were the ones really, not the Barca final defeats.
All in all I would say SAF should have won it 4 times. We had the chances.
I doubt Arsenal or City will get close to winning it.

"The myth that the PL is the best league is constantly being destroyed. "

It just all goes in cycles, though, you have to analyse it over a longer term. For a few years England have 2/3 sides in the semi, then Spain, then Germany, and now back to Spain.

Teams react to other teams and build systems to stop them, don't think we'll ever again see a period of more than 3 years dominated by by one team/country in the CL later stages.

Suspect England will be next, maybe next season.

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Yep Sevilla have really kicked on under Emery. Valencia never should have sacked him in the first place.

I think it's a little early to say that 3 or 4 teams could win La Liga, but it's good to see the start they've all made.

Saw an interesting stat about Valencia. They've scored about 60% of their shots on target this season. They've been very clinical. Will have to keep that up or start creating more chances if they're going to keep up with the big boys all season.

Hope they get top four this year.

Wouldn't surprise me if Sevilla win the Europa League this year and La Liga ends up having five teams in the CL next season.

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It just all goes in cycles
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This is basically it.

The PL is living off past glories because there was a time when it had the strongest group of teams in the CL but now they've regressed and other European teams have got better.

There always seems to be an obsession with comparing the teams of La Liga with EPL and whose got the better teams, but it's never that easy to compare, and even the matches played in Europe don't necessarily tell you that much (various teams from various nations over the years have had good runs in Europe, regardless of the leagues they come from)

In recent years, the best teams have been Barca, Real and Bayern. It's too soon to say about a team like Athletico, because we don't know how well they will do over the next few years.

Right now in the EPL, only Chelsea are playing any near to the level they can, most of the other big teams are struggling at the moment. The standard at the top of La Liga is good, and the best teams in Spain are currently better than the best teams in England, but as for the teams lower down I'm not convinced there's really much difference - there are poor teams in both leagues and some good ones also. So outside of Barca and Real, and maybe Athletico on current form, for me there's not much difference between the 2 leagues, but such opinions are always subjective.

And Spurs may wish to be a top 6 side, but currently aren't playing like one, but there will be teams who do well in Europe but not in the league and vice-versa (Dortmund for example, even us last year), so there is not always a clear link between performances in the league and Europe.

There is a tendency to under-estimate teams from abroad that we may have never heard of, but they can up their games against all teams, not just English ones.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

The Spanish league is getting back on top. United would struggle in la liga.

Way too hard/early to predict who will win the CL. Even up until just before the CL semis last year Bayern looked odd on to retain it. It's a cup competition, 1 or 2 bad results and you can be out.

Even though clubs have bigger squad these days they seem to be fighting for domestic honours as well as the CL which I think has a major effect. It would be interesting to see how often clubs won league title and European Cup/CL doubles back in the day compared to recently.

Fair points, kinsang.

It's also difficult making comparisons of a league over a more extended period of time as well given how quickly things can change in a season.

Liverpool losing Suarez, for example, has massively changed the strength of the team over a matter of months.

We were champions and lost our manager and then looked what happened.

These things can also be applied to teams from La Liga in some cases.

It's not impossible but I think it's unlikely.

It'd be an incredible achievement if Valencia and, or Sevilla, can still be up there fighting for the title come the end of the season.

Will be interesting to see if Atletico can maintain their consistency as well having lost some key players.

I still think Atletico will be a big threat in the CL, even if they fall away in La Liga, as they're basically like Chelsea.

comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 2 minutes ago
kinsang (U3346)

Have to disagree. Our teams do little to nothing in Europa league whilst the Spanish lower sides do a lot. This season anyway, the likes of Valencia and Sevilla are doing very well and would beat most if not all PL teams baring maybe City and Chelsea. The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and us are very average teams.
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Agree again. The easiest team to fix is Arsenal, a CB and a very commanding CM. They have scary pace now with Welbeck Sanchez and Walcott, backed up by OX and of course good midfield players but it's Arsenal and stubborn Wenger and their weak mentality !
I disagree with several here. The style is important and the Spanish sides like CSKA tonight are ultra comfortable on the ball and can keep hold. This is vital in European games when the standard is often higher.
As for us, miles of right now...no defence, injury crisis again, ageing centre froward on the decline, injury prone players, no leadership, no commanding powerful presence and still a lack of pace generally though improved by Shaw and Di Maria