What would you call it then Edin?
Definitely not 'attitude'; that implies that we hate the window and would rather not spend to spite the system.
If I had the same opinion I would have said:
Our intent in the January transfer window is so poor.
I think you're overanalysing what I said a bit much
'Attitude', 'Approach', 'Intent', 'Stupidity' etc......you know what I'm saying.
I mean you know what I'm 'typing', not saying.
If we did our business correctly in the summer when there is more time to plan and assess then the January window would only be for emergencies
That is true. The lack of doing the right things in the summer can have a knock on effect for Jan.
I knew we should have got rid of Ade in the summer.
Let's look in our garage for a bit..
Lennon - doesn't start
BAE - won't start
Ade - fires into life occasionally but gawd knows for how long
We hold onto deprecating assets like rusting minis on the drive in the vain hope someone will come out of nowhere and buy it. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you have to cut your losses and move on but until you move those players on we cant buy more and add to our already mega wage bill.
Mistakes always cost one way or another and at this point in time we are paying for the mistakes that have been made in some of our signings.
As for naming names I wont bother if you have not read the "we need to buy in January" comments you must be blind altho some are cunningly concealed under "Levy must buy the players Poch wants" or "Levy never got the players Poch wanted" comments.
comment by grandspurs (U3810)
posted 14 minutes ago
Let's look in our garage for a bit..
Lennon - doesn't start
BAE - won't start
Ade - fires into life occasionally but gawd knows for how long
We hold onto deprecating assets like rusting minis on the drive in the vain hope someone will come out of nowhere and buy it. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you have to cut your losses and move on but until you move those players on we cant buy more and add to our already mega wage bill.
Mistakes always cost one way or another and at this point in time we are paying for the mistakes that have been made in some of our signings.
As for naming names I wont bother if you have not read the "we need to buy in January" comments you must be blind altho some are cunningly concealed under "Levy must buy the players Poch wants" or "Levy never got the players Poch wanted" comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Grand, you'll notice that's the source of my frustration. The likes of Gomes, Bentley, BAE, and to some extent Adebayor, have been allowed to become a drain on the club. This is at least in part down to Levy's refusal to take a loss on those players, and we lose out on the pitch.
As someone who has said "Levy must buy the players Poch wants" I do so because our phannying around cost us Schneidelin. Of course we can't buy everyone the manager would want but when they're realistic (Remy, Moutinho, Hulk, Schneidelin) it seems mad not to.
Obviously January is not the time for marquee signings or rebuilding the team, but we've a few in the squad that we'd easily move on if we weren't so hard nosed about a few million.
And yes, Saha over Remy will always irk me. As I suspect it will Harry. Lose a couple on a player that will win you nothing, risk a couple more on a player that might.. I'm not talking about buying Aguero!
Basically, it's not the number of signings but the way we go about it. I think 'most posters' that complain about transfers do it because they see us repeating the same mistakes.
Firstly Schneidelin, we were never going to get him Southampton had lost the heart of their team and Schneidelin was never going to be sold just like we would not sell Modric to chelsea when they wanted him.
I honestly dont blame Levy the managers/DOF/coaches tell him what players they want to buy and those players and their agents negotiate contracts. Unfortunately when the manager/dof/coaches pick a dud then the club is stuck with it, thats the way it is.
As for Levy refusing to take a loss I dont think thats the case either. BAE refused a move and a loan move because it suited him and if you think it will be easy to unload Adebayor then you must be joking nobody will touch him and his wage demands which leaves us stuck with him.
Levy is a businessman and is fully aware that sometimes you have to take a loss there is no doubt in my mind that if he could get 1 mill for Adebayor and get his wages off our bill he would jump at the chance.
IMO it all revolves around whoever wanted that player or those players bought to the club in the first place and thats down to the football staff not the admin staff
Firstly Schneidelin, we were never going to get him Southampton had lost the heart of their team and Schneidelin was never going to be sold just like we would not sell Modric to chelsea when they wanted him.
---
Firstly it's not the same - Chelsea were rivals at the time, and Harry was actually happy to let him go. Secondly that's my point! We waited while Liverpool did their business, till they had a manager who threatened to walk out if they sold any more.
I did say in part to be fair, Gomes is a particular example. We could cancel contracts as Newcastle have done with Ben Arfa, or pay them off as City had to with Ade..
I take your point we have to look at who signed them in the first place.. hopefully a return to proper scouting will improve the odds
To be fair we've got a lot of young players both academy and signings that need time. But they also need a quality, experienced player or two to help them through the tough games. It's that bit of quality we're missing IMO. One or two triffic lads to replace those we'll never see in the first XI.
We could cancel contracts as Newcastle have done with Ben Arfa, or pay them off as City had to with Ade..
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Which costs about as much as keeping him and leaves him free to go and double his money elsewhere I think I dislike the idea of him doubling his money more than I dislike keeping him
It's that kind of bloody minded attitude I suspect Levy has too
It's a false economy in my view, effectively losing a squad place on principle is not on. Whether that means doing as City have and basing a large chunk of wages on performance related bonuses, or just scouting better, I don't know.
Bales
You are possibly right I dont often let a prejuduce interfere with my views on football but I think in Adebayors case I might have made an exception
and before anybody suggests it I dont have a racial prejudice against Adebayor I just hate his mercenary attitude
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 5 hours, 44 minutes ago
Forget summer we should be talking about now while we're competing on 3 fronts. Maybe it would have been 4 fronts had we got someone else in by now.
Our attitude to the Jan transfer window is just so poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In my view, Poch's decision to make Ade captain seriously undermined his standing. All the wider stuff about Adebayor's attitude aside, it was such a strange decision without any real potential plus sides.
Unless we collapse [like we did in 6 or so week period under AVB] I think it's safe to assume we going to be stuck with Poch for a while. I don't see how Levy can sack yet another manager without resigning himself this time. It is also possible that Lewis thinks Poch is the right long-term option.
As such, Levy must go all to back Poch's strategy on transfers. No more average for cr.ap squad signings. Come to terms with the fact that good players with Premiership experience usually always cost over the odds. Remember that £20m+ for McCarthy seems steep, but is a hell of lot more senisble that the combined fees and wages of Fazio, Capoue, Vlad etc.
Yes Grand, you'll notice that's the source of my frustration. The likes of Gomes, Bentley, BAE, and to some extent Adebayor, have been allowed to become a drain on the club. This is at least in part down to Levy's refusal to take a loss on those players, and we lose out on the pitch.
______
I'm not having a go here. But I don't get why everyone says this as if it is fact? Lots of people say this but is it true? Is there any evidence that Levy has refused to sell a player cos he wants a £1m or two more.
We bought these players rightly or wrongly on high wages with long contracts. I think Levy would struggle to find a buyer who is stupid enough to pay a high sum, and substantial wage (I doubt these players would take a wage drop) for very sub-par players.
I would love Adebayor out the club as I simply don't like the bloke and don't really like cheering him on (I would never boo him). Yet who would realistically pay for him? Our highest earner (I think) who would demand a big contract at his new club.
Edin
Everyone?
I only suggested it is partly true. There is evidence Levy is a very tough negotiator.. I think it's pretty safe to assume we'd have had offers for the players mentioned that have been turned down. No doubt the players turned down offers too.
Ade is the perfect example - City did what they had to to rid themselves of him. That said Poch has brought him back into the team, which just leaves BAE.. is Levy holding out for a fee?? It seems like spite to me. Just sack the caant, you don't mind doing it to managers!
I would love Adebayor out the club as I simply don't like the bloke and don't really like cheering him on (I would never boo him). Yet who would realistically pay for him? Our highest earner (I think) who would demand a big contract at his new club.
------------------------------------------------------------
Which is exactly what I am trying to say and is most likely the reason we are restricted with what we can bring in at the moment.
That said Poch has brought him back into the team, which just leaves BAE.. is Levy holding out for a fee?? It seems like spite to me. Just sack the caant, you don't mind doing it to managers!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that depends on the terms of the players contracts and as we are not privy to that information common sense tells me that financially its better to keep them on the books for one reason or another.
Players contracts are extremely complicated nowadays thats why both sides have solicitors etc before they are signed fro all we know it could cost twice as much to sack Adebayor as it is to keep him thru some kind of compensation clause> I dont know anymore than anybody else does but I do know that when it comes to money Levy is extremely astute so again common sense tells me there are reasons why certain players have not been sacked
Financially better over the term of their contract maybe, though i find that hard to believe we could pay more than what we wouldve anyway..
What I'm saying is though, when it's clear it's not working out get rid. Yeah I know it's not so simple but there's always a solution if you want to find one. Free transfer, subsidise wages..
It's just my gut feeling that we hold on too long in buying and selling, maybe the lines of communication aren't there, maybe some players are just caants and we've had our fair share.
What I'm saying is though, when it's clear it's not working out get rid. Yeah I know it's not so simple but there's always a solution if you want to find one. Free transfer, subsidise wages..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem with all your solutions is that they all need the agreement of the player concerned and can you see Adebayor accepting a free transfer to say Leicester with us paying all his wages when he can sit at WHL earn the same amount and do sweet FA for his money?
No I cant either particularly at this stage in his career.
Those are the kind of reasons we were stuck with Bentley until his contract expired and also with BAE.
Its also the reason Harry was moaning and whining about the QPR squad where many mercenaries were getting their money every week without caring one way or another about the team.
Its all about player power and the other thing is of course if you do get into a public dispute with a player then the next player you want to sign might well say no to you in case it happens to him.
Its definitely not as easy as we wish it was
Ades contract runs out this year I think?
Sign in if you want to comment
LAO (Laugh at ourselves)
Page 4 of 5
posted on 25/1/15
Attitude?
posted on 25/1/15
What would you call it then Edin?
posted on 25/1/15
Definitely not 'attitude'; that implies that we hate the window and would rather not spend to spite the system.
If I had the same opinion I would have said:
Our intent in the January transfer window is so poor.
posted on 25/1/15
I think you're overanalysing what I said a bit much
'Attitude', 'Approach', 'Intent', 'Stupidity' etc......you know what I'm saying.
posted on 25/1/15
I mean you know what I'm 'typing', not saying.
posted on 25/1/15
If we did our business correctly in the summer when there is more time to plan and assess then the January window would only be for emergencies
posted on 25/1/15
True
posted on 25/1/15
That is true. The lack of doing the right things in the summer can have a knock on effect for Jan.
I knew we should have got rid of Ade in the summer.
posted on 25/1/15
Let's look in our garage for a bit..
Lennon - doesn't start
BAE - won't start
Ade - fires into life occasionally but gawd knows for how long
We hold onto deprecating assets like rusting minis on the drive in the vain hope someone will come out of nowhere and buy it. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you have to cut your losses and move on but until you move those players on we cant buy more and add to our already mega wage bill.
Mistakes always cost one way or another and at this point in time we are paying for the mistakes that have been made in some of our signings.
As for naming names I wont bother if you have not read the "we need to buy in January" comments you must be blind altho some are cunningly concealed under "Levy must buy the players Poch wants" or "Levy never got the players Poch wanted" comments.
posted on 25/1/15
comment by grandspurs (U3810)
posted 14 minutes ago
Let's look in our garage for a bit..
Lennon - doesn't start
BAE - won't start
Ade - fires into life occasionally but gawd knows for how long
We hold onto deprecating assets like rusting minis on the drive in the vain hope someone will come out of nowhere and buy it. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you have to cut your losses and move on but until you move those players on we cant buy more and add to our already mega wage bill.
Mistakes always cost one way or another and at this point in time we are paying for the mistakes that have been made in some of our signings.
As for naming names I wont bother if you have not read the "we need to buy in January" comments you must be blind altho some are cunningly concealed under "Levy must buy the players Poch wants" or "Levy never got the players Poch wanted" comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Grand, you'll notice that's the source of my frustration. The likes of Gomes, Bentley, BAE, and to some extent Adebayor, have been allowed to become a drain on the club. This is at least in part down to Levy's refusal to take a loss on those players, and we lose out on the pitch.
As someone who has said "Levy must buy the players Poch wants" I do so because our phannying around cost us Schneidelin. Of course we can't buy everyone the manager would want but when they're realistic (Remy, Moutinho, Hulk, Schneidelin) it seems mad not to.
Obviously January is not the time for marquee signings or rebuilding the team, but we've a few in the squad that we'd easily move on if we weren't so hard nosed about a few million.
And yes, Saha over Remy will always irk me. As I suspect it will Harry. Lose a couple on a player that will win you nothing, risk a couple more on a player that might.. I'm not talking about buying Aguero!
posted on 25/1/15
Basically, it's not the number of signings but the way we go about it. I think 'most posters' that complain about transfers do it because they see us repeating the same mistakes.
posted on 25/1/15
Firstly Schneidelin, we were never going to get him Southampton had lost the heart of their team and Schneidelin was never going to be sold just like we would not sell Modric to chelsea when they wanted him.
I honestly dont blame Levy the managers/DOF/coaches tell him what players they want to buy and those players and their agents negotiate contracts. Unfortunately when the manager/dof/coaches pick a dud then the club is stuck with it, thats the way it is.
As for Levy refusing to take a loss I dont think thats the case either. BAE refused a move and a loan move because it suited him and if you think it will be easy to unload Adebayor then you must be joking nobody will touch him and his wage demands which leaves us stuck with him.
Levy is a businessman and is fully aware that sometimes you have to take a loss there is no doubt in my mind that if he could get 1 mill for Adebayor and get his wages off our bill he would jump at the chance.
IMO it all revolves around whoever wanted that player or those players bought to the club in the first place and thats down to the football staff not the admin staff
posted on 25/1/15
Firstly Schneidelin, we were never going to get him Southampton had lost the heart of their team and Schneidelin was never going to be sold just like we would not sell Modric to chelsea when they wanted him.
---
Firstly it's not the same - Chelsea were rivals at the time, and Harry was actually happy to let him go. Secondly that's my point! We waited while Liverpool did their business, till they had a manager who threatened to walk out if they sold any more.
I did say in part to be fair, Gomes is a particular example. We could cancel contracts as Newcastle have done with Ben Arfa, or pay them off as City had to with Ade..
I take your point we have to look at who signed them in the first place.. hopefully a return to proper scouting will improve the odds
To be fair we've got a lot of young players both academy and signings that need time. But they also need a quality, experienced player or two to help them through the tough games. It's that bit of quality we're missing IMO. One or two triffic lads to replace those we'll never see in the first XI.
posted on 25/1/15
We could cancel contracts as Newcastle have done with Ben Arfa, or pay them off as City had to with Ade..
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Which costs about as much as keeping him and leaves him free to go and double his money elsewhere I think I dislike the idea of him doubling his money more than I dislike keeping him
posted on 25/1/15
It's that kind of bloody minded attitude I suspect Levy has too
It's a false economy in my view, effectively losing a squad place on principle is not on. Whether that means doing as City have and basing a large chunk of wages on performance related bonuses, or just scouting better, I don't know.
posted on 25/1/15
Bales
You are possibly right I dont often let a prejuduce interfere with my views on football but I think in Adebayors case I might have made an exception
posted on 25/1/15
and before anybody suggests it I dont have a racial prejudice against Adebayor I just hate his mercenary attitude
posted on 25/1/15
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 5 hours, 44 minutes ago
Forget summer we should be talking about now while we're competing on 3 fronts. Maybe it would have been 4 fronts had we got someone else in by now.
Our attitude to the Jan transfer window is just so poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 25/1/15
In my view, Poch's decision to make Ade captain seriously undermined his standing. All the wider stuff about Adebayor's attitude aside, it was such a strange decision without any real potential plus sides.
Unless we collapse [like we did in 6 or so week period under AVB] I think it's safe to assume we going to be stuck with Poch for a while. I don't see how Levy can sack yet another manager without resigning himself this time. It is also possible that Lewis thinks Poch is the right long-term option.
As such, Levy must go all to back Poch's strategy on transfers. No more average for cr.ap squad signings. Come to terms with the fact that good players with Premiership experience usually always cost over the odds. Remember that £20m+ for McCarthy seems steep, but is a hell of lot more senisble that the combined fees and wages of Fazio, Capoue, Vlad etc.
posted on 25/1/15
Yes Grand, you'll notice that's the source of my frustration. The likes of Gomes, Bentley, BAE, and to some extent Adebayor, have been allowed to become a drain on the club. This is at least in part down to Levy's refusal to take a loss on those players, and we lose out on the pitch.
______
I'm not having a go here. But I don't get why everyone says this as if it is fact? Lots of people say this but is it true? Is there any evidence that Levy has refused to sell a player cos he wants a £1m or two more.
We bought these players rightly or wrongly on high wages with long contracts. I think Levy would struggle to find a buyer who is stupid enough to pay a high sum, and substantial wage (I doubt these players would take a wage drop) for very sub-par players.
I would love Adebayor out the club as I simply don't like the bloke and don't really like cheering him on (I would never boo him). Yet who would realistically pay for him? Our highest earner (I think) who would demand a big contract at his new club.
posted on 25/1/15
Edin
Everyone?
I only suggested it is partly true. There is evidence Levy is a very tough negotiator.. I think it's pretty safe to assume we'd have had offers for the players mentioned that have been turned down. No doubt the players turned down offers too.
Ade is the perfect example - City did what they had to to rid themselves of him. That said Poch has brought him back into the team, which just leaves BAE.. is Levy holding out for a fee?? It seems like spite to me. Just sack the caant, you don't mind doing it to managers!
posted on 25/1/15
I would love Adebayor out the club as I simply don't like the bloke and don't really like cheering him on (I would never boo him). Yet who would realistically pay for him? Our highest earner (I think) who would demand a big contract at his new club.
------------------------------------------------------------
Which is exactly what I am trying to say and is most likely the reason we are restricted with what we can bring in at the moment.
That said Poch has brought him back into the team, which just leaves BAE.. is Levy holding out for a fee?? It seems like spite to me. Just sack the caant, you don't mind doing it to managers!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that depends on the terms of the players contracts and as we are not privy to that information common sense tells me that financially its better to keep them on the books for one reason or another.
Players contracts are extremely complicated nowadays thats why both sides have solicitors etc before they are signed fro all we know it could cost twice as much to sack Adebayor as it is to keep him thru some kind of compensation clause> I dont know anymore than anybody else does but I do know that when it comes to money Levy is extremely astute so again common sense tells me there are reasons why certain players have not been sacked
posted on 25/1/15
Financially better over the term of their contract maybe, though i find that hard to believe we could pay more than what we wouldve anyway..
What I'm saying is though, when it's clear it's not working out get rid. Yeah I know it's not so simple but there's always a solution if you want to find one. Free transfer, subsidise wages..
It's just my gut feeling that we hold on too long in buying and selling, maybe the lines of communication aren't there, maybe some players are just caants and we've had our fair share.
posted on 25/1/15
What I'm saying is though, when it's clear it's not working out get rid. Yeah I know it's not so simple but there's always a solution if you want to find one. Free transfer, subsidise wages..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem with all your solutions is that they all need the agreement of the player concerned and can you see Adebayor accepting a free transfer to say Leicester with us paying all his wages when he can sit at WHL earn the same amount and do sweet FA for his money?
No I cant either particularly at this stage in his career.
Those are the kind of reasons we were stuck with Bentley until his contract expired and also with BAE.
Its also the reason Harry was moaning and whining about the QPR squad where many mercenaries were getting their money every week without caring one way or another about the team.
Its all about player power and the other thing is of course if you do get into a public dispute with a player then the next player you want to sign might well say no to you in case it happens to him.
Its definitely not as easy as we wish it was
posted on 25/1/15
Ades contract runs out this year I think?
Page 4 of 5