In the league we had Bergkamp.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Thing that separates Wenger from being one of the all time greats for me is him not winning the Champions League with one of his teams. Oddly enough I think 2002-03 was our best, even though that side only won the FA Cup they played the best football. Maybe even early 04-05.
The Invincible year specifically was fatigue. As soon as it went 1-1 we were never going to win. The players were dead on their feet.
Other than that tactics obviously was an issue as was squad depth.
Things like having to play Wiltord wide left v Valencia coat us, as well as never having top quality defence.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The most annoying is somehow contriving to lose fixtures we're fancied to win. In that unbeaten season, we faced Chelsea in the CL quarters - a team we had beaten THRICE domestically - with all the favoured heavyweights like Madrid, Juve, Milan, Inter, Man U etc all dumped out before the quarters. It looked like it had opened up or us. We got a draw at the Bridge, took a lead at Highbury and were running Chelsea ragged. But we bottled it in true Arsenal style late on. I was far more disappointed with that campaign than losing in the '05/06 final.
Or losing to Liverpool in the '07/08 quarters - a glaringly inferior team at the time. Not that we would have beaten Chelsea in the semis if we went through.
Losing to Bayern in 04/05 really annoyed me, thought we were much the better team overall.
Think Real Madrid, Barca and United were all out in the same round too.
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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
GT, I don't think you can argue that we were tactical out thought in many games. In the two group stage era we were embarrassed a lot.
The squad was never quite strong enough but also the tactics weren't.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
GT, I don't think you can argue that we were tactical out thought in many games. In the two group stage era we were embarrassed a lot.
The squad was never quite strong enough but also the tactics weren't.
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Wenger not doing any tactics is a myth, DJ.
No one said no tactics ...
DJ, I cant remember of all games we played during that period. For example our only final we played against Barca in the CL League we gifted them the title because our players make schoolboy error began with Lehmann got the red card and Henry let us down.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
No one said no tactics ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure about that.
Chelsea game annoyed me. Wayne freaking bridge.
Wouldn't say there was an inferiority complex. Arsenal were knocked out by a few sides you'd have expected them to beat.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 34 minutes ago
The most annoying is somehow contriving to lose fixtures we're fancied to win. In that unbeaten season, we faced Chelsea in the CL quarters - a team we had beaten THRICE domestically - with all the favoured heavyweights like Madrid, Juve, Milan, Inter, Man U etc all dumped out before the quarters. It looked like it had opened up or us. We got a draw at the Bridge, took a lead at Highbury and were running Chelsea ragged. But we bottled it in true Arsenal style late on. I was far more disappointed with that campaign than losing in the '05/06 final.
Or losing to Liverpool in the '07/08 quarters - a glaringly inferior team at the time. Not that we would have beaten Chelsea in the semis if we went through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this.
Marginally thin squads, little insurance, meant that everything had to go for us in order to win the CL.
We cannot escape the fact that managers with lesser teams, out thought us.
We would have won the CL that year if we didn't choke against Chelsea.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 43 minutes ago
The most annoying is somehow contriving to lose fixtures we're fancied to win. In that unbeaten season, we faced Chelsea in the CL quarters - a team we had beaten THRICE domestically - with all the favoured heavyweights like Madrid, Juve, Milan, Inter, Man U etc all dumped out before the quarters. It looked like it had opened up or us. We got a draw at the Bridge, took a lead at Highbury and were running Chelsea ragged. But we bottled it in true Arsenal style late on. I was far more disappointed with that campaign than losing in the '05/06 final.
Or losing to Liverpool in the '07/08 quarters - a glaringly inferior team at the time. Not that we would have beaten Chelsea in the semis if we went through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most frustrating season in my lifetime was the 07/08 season. We would have won the league were it not for that damn Birmingham game and we were dumped out of the CL by two shocking refereeing performances plus Ryan Babel's theatrics. Wenger masterminded a brilliant but desperately unlucky team on a shoestring budget that year. Credit to him.
And by the way all the people saying Wenger is tactically sheet, I thought the criticism of even the most avid WOBer begins around the year 2006. Doesn't the very existence of the Invincibles kind of make your argument fall flat on its face?
comment by BO$$™ (U6401)
posted 6 minutes ago
We would have won the CL that year if we didn't choke against Chelsea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger wouldn't have beaten Mourinho.
Wengers tactics during the past 5 years have been pathetic though. Loosing the same way over and over again against big teams. Is that not tactically stupid?
Going into a season with only 2 Senior CB. Is that not tactically stupid? There have been many examples in the past 5 years.
He was good at tactics pre 2006 but times have moved on and Wenger hasn't altered his methods. People have worked out that you need to sit back against us and hit us on counter.
It is amazing how well the 03/04 team did considering the lack of depth in defence and midfield. For me it shows where we could have gotten in recent years were we not plagued by injuries.
Also, I forgot about the Bergkamp factor.
Between '04/05 and '08/09. Liverpool under Benitez' tactical mastery won one CL, made another final and 2 semis. 4 years out of 5 of making at least the semis. Contrast this with Wenger's first 8 campaigns, where Arsenal never made even ONE semi on 8 years. Infact, we went 7 campaigns before finally making ONE measly quarter final. Other than tactical ineptitude, I'd like to know any other plausible reason for that shambles of a record. Even Leeds made the semis in their only campaign in that period, and a pre-Abramovic Chelsea also made the semis in their only campaign. And we were far better than Livrpool, Leeds or Chelsea. Why then was our record so pathetic?
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The Invincibles and Europe
Page 1 of 4
posted on 23/2/15
In the league we had Bergkamp.
posted on 23/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/2/15
Thing that separates Wenger from being one of the all time greats for me is him not winning the Champions League with one of his teams. Oddly enough I think 2002-03 was our best, even though that side only won the FA Cup they played the best football. Maybe even early 04-05.
posted on 23/2/15
The Invincible year specifically was fatigue. As soon as it went 1-1 we were never going to win. The players were dead on their feet.
Other than that tactics obviously was an issue as was squad depth.
Things like having to play Wiltord wide left v Valencia coat us, as well as never having top quality defence.
posted on 23/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/2/15
The most annoying is somehow contriving to lose fixtures we're fancied to win. In that unbeaten season, we faced Chelsea in the CL quarters - a team we had beaten THRICE domestically - with all the favoured heavyweights like Madrid, Juve, Milan, Inter, Man U etc all dumped out before the quarters. It looked like it had opened up or us. We got a draw at the Bridge, took a lead at Highbury and were running Chelsea ragged. But we bottled it in true Arsenal style late on. I was far more disappointed with that campaign than losing in the '05/06 final.
Or losing to Liverpool in the '07/08 quarters - a glaringly inferior team at the time. Not that we would have beaten Chelsea in the semis if we went through.
posted on 23/2/15
Losing to Bayern in 04/05 really annoyed me, thought we were much the better team overall.
Think Real Madrid, Barca and United were all out in the same round too.
posted on 23/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/2/15
GT, I don't think you can argue that we were tactical out thought in many games. In the two group stage era we were embarrassed a lot.
The squad was never quite strong enough but also the tactics weren't.
posted on 23/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/2/15
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
GT, I don't think you can argue that we were tactical out thought in many games. In the two group stage era we were embarrassed a lot.
The squad was never quite strong enough but also the tactics weren't.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger not doing any tactics is a myth, DJ.
posted on 23/2/15
No one said no tactics ...
posted on 23/2/15
DJ, I cant remember of all games we played during that period. For example our only final we played against Barca in the CL League we gifted them the title because our players make schoolboy error began with Lehmann got the red card and Henry let us down.
posted on 23/2/15
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 4 minutes ago
No one said no tactics ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure about that.
posted on 23/2/15
Chelsea game annoyed me. Wayne freaking bridge.
posted on 23/2/15
Wouldn't say there was an inferiority complex. Arsenal were knocked out by a few sides you'd have expected them to beat.
posted on 23/2/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 34 minutes ago
The most annoying is somehow contriving to lose fixtures we're fancied to win. In that unbeaten season, we faced Chelsea in the CL quarters - a team we had beaten THRICE domestically - with all the favoured heavyweights like Madrid, Juve, Milan, Inter, Man U etc all dumped out before the quarters. It looked like it had opened up or us. We got a draw at the Bridge, took a lead at Highbury and were running Chelsea ragged. But we bottled it in true Arsenal style late on. I was far more disappointed with that campaign than losing in the '05/06 final.
Or losing to Liverpool in the '07/08 quarters - a glaringly inferior team at the time. Not that we would have beaten Chelsea in the semis if we went through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this.
Marginally thin squads, little insurance, meant that everything had to go for us in order to win the CL.
We cannot escape the fact that managers with lesser teams, out thought us.
posted on 23/2/15
We would have won the CL that year if we didn't choke against Chelsea.
posted on 23/2/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 43 minutes ago
The most annoying is somehow contriving to lose fixtures we're fancied to win. In that unbeaten season, we faced Chelsea in the CL quarters - a team we had beaten THRICE domestically - with all the favoured heavyweights like Madrid, Juve, Milan, Inter, Man U etc all dumped out before the quarters. It looked like it had opened up or us. We got a draw at the Bridge, took a lead at Highbury and were running Chelsea ragged. But we bottled it in true Arsenal style late on. I was far more disappointed with that campaign than losing in the '05/06 final.
Or losing to Liverpool in the '07/08 quarters - a glaringly inferior team at the time. Not that we would have beaten Chelsea in the semis if we went through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably the most frustrating season in my lifetime was the 07/08 season. We would have won the league were it not for that damn Birmingham game and we were dumped out of the CL by two shocking refereeing performances plus Ryan Babel's theatrics. Wenger masterminded a brilliant but desperately unlucky team on a shoestring budget that year. Credit to him.
And by the way all the people saying Wenger is tactically sheet, I thought the criticism of even the most avid WOBer begins around the year 2006. Doesn't the very existence of the Invincibles kind of make your argument fall flat on its face?
posted on 23/2/15
comment by BO$$™ (U6401)
posted 6 minutes ago
We would have won the CL that year if we didn't choke against Chelsea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger wouldn't have beaten Mourinho.
posted on 23/2/15
Wengers tactics during the past 5 years have been pathetic though. Loosing the same way over and over again against big teams. Is that not tactically stupid?
Going into a season with only 2 Senior CB. Is that not tactically stupid? There have been many examples in the past 5 years.
He was good at tactics pre 2006 but times have moved on and Wenger hasn't altered his methods. People have worked out that you need to sit back against us and hit us on counter.
posted on 23/2/15
It is amazing how well the 03/04 team did considering the lack of depth in defence and midfield. For me it shows where we could have gotten in recent years were we not plagued by injuries.
Also, I forgot about the Bergkamp factor.
posted on 23/2/15
Between '04/05 and '08/09. Liverpool under Benitez' tactical mastery won one CL, made another final and 2 semis. 4 years out of 5 of making at least the semis. Contrast this with Wenger's first 8 campaigns, where Arsenal never made even ONE semi on 8 years. Infact, we went 7 campaigns before finally making ONE measly quarter final. Other than tactical ineptitude, I'd like to know any other plausible reason for that shambles of a record. Even Leeds made the semis in their only campaign in that period, and a pre-Abramovic Chelsea also made the semis in their only campaign. And we were far better than Livrpool, Leeds or Chelsea. Why then was our record so pathetic?
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