There were more luckier teams than Arsenal.
Suppose in 2004 it was more psychological than anything else - had we beat Utd in the cup, we'd have probably beaten Chelsea.
I always thought you guys could have done more in Europe. I think inferiority complex added to a lack of tactical nous. In the PL you certainly had an air of superiority, but this seemed to evaporate often in European games. I remember one season (might have been the season after your 1st double in 98), and you had a weak group of something like Lens, Panathinaikos and Kiev, and failed.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 9 minutes ago
Between '04/05 and '08/09. Liverpool under Benitez' tactical mastery won one CL, made another final and 2 semis. 4 years out of 5 of making at least the semis. Contrast this with Wenger's first 8 campaigns, where Arsenal never made even ONE semi on 8 years. Infact, we went 7 campaigns before finally making ONE measly quarter final. Other than tactical ineptitude, I'd like to know any other plausible reason for that shambles of a record. Even Leeds made the semis in their only campaign in that period, and a pre-Abramovic Chelsea also made the semis in their only campaign. And we were far better than Livrpool, Leeds or Chelsea. Why then was our record so pathetic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you're going to ignore Liverpool's cheating during their 2005 CL run? No tactics can account for a player theatrically falling to get a penalty. Why they are celebrated for that "night in Istanbul" exemplifies the revisionism that happens when teams win.
Tbf though I think we did get some bad luck though such as the CL final and that dive from Babel in 2008.
Some of it was just bad planning, PSV in 2007 () and Bayern in 2005.
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 10 minutes ago
There were more luckier teams than Arsenal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's moronic - even for you.
So you're going to ignore Liverpool's cheating during their 2005 CL run? No tactics can account for a player theatrically falling to get a penalty. Why they are celebrated for that "night in Istanbul" exemplifies the revisionism that happens when teams win.
----------------------------------------------------
We scored in the '05/06 final from a set-piece won by an Eboue dive. The difference is Liverpool made theirs count and we didn't.
Well of course we could have done better. Absolute no doubt. Surely there are some reason that come together.
On the other hand CL is a Cup competition. Crazy things can happen. Look at the game Liverpool against AC Milan. Look how Chelsea won the CL title.
That late goal from Wayne Bridge was a real kick in the teeth, think that year was your best chance of winning it, even though you made the final in '05. Monaco in the semi then Porto in the final afterwards..
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 2 minutes ago
So you're going to ignore Liverpool's cheating during their 2005 CL run? No tactics can account for a player theatrically falling to get a penalty. Why they are celebrated for that "night in Istanbul" exemplifies the revisionism that happens when teams win.
----------------------------------------------------
We scored in the '05/06 final from a set-piece won by an Eboue dive. The difference is Liverpool made theirs count and we didn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not trying to be pedantic, but the difference is that a penalty will almost certainly lead to a goal scored. It is a big reason why they won the CL.
Worst thing is knowing if we beat Chelsea we would have smashed Mourn his Porto and the curse would have been killed before it started...
That quarter final stage was ridiculous.
Milan, arguably the best team in Europe back then, tooka 4-1 lead into second leg with a match with Porto pretty much set up. They were expected to get to the final.
Then you had Madrid leading 4-2 from their first leg poised to meet an Arsenal side that regularly made Chelsea their biiitches at Highbury.
Somehow all three managed to go out! One of the biggest shocks in the CL that it happened.
Worst thing is knowing if we beat Chelsea we would have smashed Mourn his Porto and the curse would have been killed before it started...
---------------------------------------------
Porto were pretty much that season's Athletico. Like Athletico, they had dominated the UEFA Cup the previous season and convincingly stepped up to the CL. Like Athletico, they were a well drilled, organized side who played with intensity. Like Athletico, they had a larger-than-life, young, enthusiastic, inspirational manager who could get his players to run through brick walls. I'd pretty much put our likelihood of beating them at 50-50.
Eboue did dive for the free kick that led to the goal in the final however did u forget the countless times the barca players floped to the floor winning a free kick out of nothing?
Milan, arguably the best team in Europe back then, tooka 4-1 lead into second leg with a match with Porto pretty much set up. They were expected to get to the final.
-----------------------------------------
I remember watching that Milan-Depor match. Surreal scenes. Was a wee kid at the time and I went nuts when the 4th goal went in for Depor. I think there was some Albert Luque kid who ran Milan ragged that night. I really enjoyed European footy around that era.
Eboue did dive for the free kick that led to the goal in the final however did u forget the countless times the barca players floped to the floor winning a free kick out of nothing?
-------------------------------------------
Not arguing with that. I was just pointing out if wouldn't be fair to denigrate Liverpool's victory in that final because of a Gerrard dive. Coming back from 3-0 down against Milan is an incredible feat. They showed uncommon heart and courage on the biggest stage which for all our brilliant qualities and brilliant football, we've rarely displayed under Wenger. Youd have to go back to Graham's team to see an Arsenal team with such resolve.
Same, The Football Italia Show on Channel 4
Luque went to Newcastle and was shocking.
The Madrid vs Monaco game was just as funny. They took the lead in France and were 5-2 up in the tie. But i the space of about 20 mins they conceded three and ended up going out. Plus Morientes was on loan and they allowed him to play and he scored twice.
Luque went to Newcastle and was shocking.
The Madrid vs Monaco game was just as funny. They took the lead in France and were 5-2 up in the tie. But i the space of about 20 mins they conceded three and ended up going out. Plus Morientes was on loan and they allowed him to play and he scored twice.
---------------------------------------------------
I saw some of that game. There was this Rothen fellow who could whip in a hell of a ball. And of course, pocket rocket Giuly. I think Evra was in that Monaco team, wasn't he?
All the same, it's shocking they reached the final.
Yeah he was. The also had two other players that would go on to become premier lesgue legends: Adebayor and Squillaci.
Ah Squillaci was great value for entertainment
He scored at the Bernabeu.
Believe it or not, Squillaci was a good, solid pro before he came to Arsenal. And then he just went to pieces. Was still better than Silvestre though by far.
Sign in if you want to comment
The Invincibles and Europe
Page 2 of 4
posted on 23/2/15
There were more luckier teams than Arsenal.
posted on 23/2/15
Suppose in 2004 it was more psychological than anything else - had we beat Utd in the cup, we'd have probably beaten Chelsea.
posted on 23/2/15
I always thought you guys could have done more in Europe. I think inferiority complex added to a lack of tactical nous. In the PL you certainly had an air of superiority, but this seemed to evaporate often in European games. I remember one season (might have been the season after your 1st double in 98), and you had a weak group of something like Lens, Panathinaikos and Kiev, and failed.
posted on 23/2/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 9 minutes ago
Between '04/05 and '08/09. Liverpool under Benitez' tactical mastery won one CL, made another final and 2 semis. 4 years out of 5 of making at least the semis. Contrast this with Wenger's first 8 campaigns, where Arsenal never made even ONE semi on 8 years. Infact, we went 7 campaigns before finally making ONE measly quarter final. Other than tactical ineptitude, I'd like to know any other plausible reason for that shambles of a record. Even Leeds made the semis in their only campaign in that period, and a pre-Abramovic Chelsea also made the semis in their only campaign. And we were far better than Livrpool, Leeds or Chelsea. Why then was our record so pathetic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you're going to ignore Liverpool's cheating during their 2005 CL run? No tactics can account for a player theatrically falling to get a penalty. Why they are celebrated for that "night in Istanbul" exemplifies the revisionism that happens when teams win.
posted on 23/2/15
Tbf though I think we did get some bad luck though such as the CL final and that dive from Babel in 2008.
Some of it was just bad planning, PSV in 2007 () and Bayern in 2005.
posted on 23/2/15
More luckier teams.
posted on 23/2/15
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 10 minutes ago
There were more luckier teams than Arsenal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's moronic - even for you.
posted on 23/2/15
So you're going to ignore Liverpool's cheating during their 2005 CL run? No tactics can account for a player theatrically falling to get a penalty. Why they are celebrated for that "night in Istanbul" exemplifies the revisionism that happens when teams win.
----------------------------------------------------
We scored in the '05/06 final from a set-piece won by an Eboue dive. The difference is Liverpool made theirs count and we didn't.
posted on 23/2/15
Well of course we could have done better. Absolute no doubt. Surely there are some reason that come together.
On the other hand CL is a Cup competition. Crazy things can happen. Look at the game Liverpool against AC Milan. Look how Chelsea won the CL title.
posted on 23/2/15
That late goal from Wayne Bridge was a real kick in the teeth, think that year was your best chance of winning it, even though you made the final in '05. Monaco in the semi then Porto in the final afterwards..
posted on 23/2/15
2006 rather*
posted on 23/2/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 2 minutes ago
So you're going to ignore Liverpool's cheating during their 2005 CL run? No tactics can account for a player theatrically falling to get a penalty. Why they are celebrated for that "night in Istanbul" exemplifies the revisionism that happens when teams win.
----------------------------------------------------
We scored in the '05/06 final from a set-piece won by an Eboue dive. The difference is Liverpool made theirs count and we didn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not trying to be pedantic, but the difference is that a penalty will almost certainly lead to a goal scored. It is a big reason why they won the CL.
posted on 23/2/15
Worst thing is knowing if we beat Chelsea we would have smashed Mourn his Porto and the curse would have been killed before it started...
posted on 23/2/15
That quarter final stage was ridiculous.
Milan, arguably the best team in Europe back then, tooka 4-1 lead into second leg with a match with Porto pretty much set up. They were expected to get to the final.
Then you had Madrid leading 4-2 from their first leg poised to meet an Arsenal side that regularly made Chelsea their biiitches at Highbury.
Somehow all three managed to go out! One of the biggest shocks in the CL that it happened.
posted on 23/2/15
Worst thing is knowing if we beat Chelsea we would have smashed Mourn his Porto and the curse would have been killed before it started...
---------------------------------------------
Porto were pretty much that season's Athletico. Like Athletico, they had dominated the UEFA Cup the previous season and convincingly stepped up to the CL. Like Athletico, they were a well drilled, organized side who played with intensity. Like Athletico, they had a larger-than-life, young, enthusiastic, inspirational manager who could get his players to run through brick walls. I'd pretty much put our likelihood of beating them at 50-50.
posted on 23/2/15
Eboue did dive for the free kick that led to the goal in the final however did u forget the countless times the barca players floped to the floor winning a free kick out of nothing?
posted on 23/2/15
Milan, arguably the best team in Europe back then, tooka 4-1 lead into second leg with a match with Porto pretty much set up. They were expected to get to the final.
-----------------------------------------
I remember watching that Milan-Depor match. Surreal scenes. Was a wee kid at the time and I went nuts when the 4th goal went in for Depor. I think there was some Albert Luque kid who ran Milan ragged that night. I really enjoyed European footy around that era.
posted on 23/2/15
Eboue did dive for the free kick that led to the goal in the final however did u forget the countless times the barca players floped to the floor winning a free kick out of nothing?
-------------------------------------------
Not arguing with that. I was just pointing out if wouldn't be fair to denigrate Liverpool's victory in that final because of a Gerrard dive. Coming back from 3-0 down against Milan is an incredible feat. They showed uncommon heart and courage on the biggest stage which for all our brilliant qualities and brilliant football, we've rarely displayed under Wenger. Youd have to go back to Graham's team to see an Arsenal team with such resolve.
posted on 23/2/15
Same, The Football Italia Show on Channel 4
posted on 23/2/15
Luque went to Newcastle and was shocking.
The Madrid vs Monaco game was just as funny. They took the lead in France and were 5-2 up in the tie. But i the space of about 20 mins they conceded three and ended up going out. Plus Morientes was on loan and they allowed him to play and he scored twice.
posted on 23/2/15
Luque went to Newcastle and was shocking.
The Madrid vs Monaco game was just as funny. They took the lead in France and were 5-2 up in the tie. But i the space of about 20 mins they conceded three and ended up going out. Plus Morientes was on loan and they allowed him to play and he scored twice.
---------------------------------------------------
I saw some of that game. There was this Rothen fellow who could whip in a hell of a ball. And of course, pocket rocket Giuly. I think Evra was in that Monaco team, wasn't he?
All the same, it's shocking they reached the final.
posted on 23/2/15
Yeah he was. The also had two other players that would go on to become premier lesgue legends: Adebayor and Squillaci.
posted on 23/2/15
Ah Squillaci was great value for entertainment
posted on 23/2/15
He scored at the Bernabeu.
posted on 23/2/15
Believe it or not, Squillaci was a good, solid pro before he came to Arsenal. And then he just went to pieces. Was still better than Silvestre though by far.
Page 2 of 4