Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
Then I rephrase... what makes him not good enough?
He's not. Just standard reaction for a lot of our fans after a loss - get rid of the player/manager.
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 50 seconds ago
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what sense is he not good enough?
I've not understood it myself. There are tons of dodgy goals I've seen De Gea concede in recent months which would have had our fans baying for blood if it were Ospina. I just can't see what people are talking about with him. He hasn't been tested enough to determine whether he's good enough or not. He hasn't been a match-winner, but he hasn't lost us matches either.
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 50 seconds ago
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what sense is he not good enough?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ability.
I think he's good enough if we are happy being the plucky underdogs, maybe an outside chance at the title.
But why should we settle for that? FFP and our finances basically means we can spend a similar level to anyone in the league bar United.
We should be looking to improve upon our weakest positions, and GK is probably one of them.
I've not understood it myself. There are tons of dodgy goals I've seen De Gea concede in recent months which would have had our fans baying for blood if it were Ospina. I just can't see what people are talking about with him. He hasn't been tested enough to determine whether he's good enough or not. He hasn't been a match-winner, but he hasn't lost us matches either.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We could have DDG and some fans would still want him sold after 1 mistake.
Yesterday wasn't even a mistake imo, could argue Kos and Monreal weren't strong enough and Bellerin didn't stop the cross. Should they all be dropped as well.
Chris H (U15205)
Ability.
I think he's good enough if we are happy being the plucky underdogs, maybe an outside chance at the title.
But why should we settle for that? FFP and our finances basically means we can spend a similar level to anyone in the league bar United.
We should be looking to improve upon our weakest positions, and GK is probably one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What exactly is he doing wrong which is costing the team?
"We could have DDG and some fans would still want him sold after 1 mistake."
Mistakes are not the only way to judge a keeper.
Between Szcz and Ospina I think we basically have a choice - the former is more talented, a better shot stopper and has better handling but unlike the latter he's more prone to silly decisions which can cost us.
Ospina is more dependable but I think he's really top 4/5 keeper rather than a title winning one.
As for De Gea comparisons, that's just silly. DDG is a far superior keeper to either of ours in almost every way.
As for De Gea comparisons, that's just silly. DDG is a far superior keeper to either of ours in almost every way.
------------------------------------------------------------------------totally agree, not even close
"What exactly is he doing wrong which is costing the team?"
What kind of system is this to judge a player? Do they have to be done something in particular "wrong" before any kind of consideration around whether we can do better takes place?
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 18 seconds ago
"What exactly is he doing wrong which is costing the team?"
What kind of system is this to judge a player? Do they have to be done something in particular "wrong" before any kind of consideration around whether we can do better takes place?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why else would you want to replace a player?
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
I've not understood it myself. There are tons of dodgy goals I've seen De Gea concede in recent months which would have had our fans baying for blood if it were Ospina. I just can't see what people are talking about with him. He hasn't been tested enough to determine whether he's good enough or not. He hasn't been a match-winner, but he hasn't lost us matches either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Monaco? Spurs? Last night
Could've lost us Chelsea if he was rightly dismissed
Sczesney >>>> Ospina
But Chris we can theoretically do better in all positions until we get messi and Ronaldo.
The OPs point is given that Odpina has played half a season what criteria is being used to judge him as a poor keeper?
I have also seen poor mistakes from DDG and Courtois but little is ever said as they are probably tall enough or young.
Nobody talks about Adam's goal vs Courtois. If that had been Ospina everybody would be slaughtering him no end. I guess we have our frustrations as Arsenal fans, and somebody must take the stick.
He is not a bad keeper he is pretty good. He is just not world class like Chelsea united and at times city have. How many times has he made a save that has made you applaud or that surprised you.
Our whole team is very good. We need now to be looking towards the world class bracket to improve and reach the Bayerns of this world
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 50 seconds ago
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what sense is he not good enough?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ability.
I think he's good enough if we are happy being the plucky underdogs, maybe an outside chance at the title.
But why should we settle for that? FFP and our finances basically means we can spend a similar level to anyone in the league bar United.
We should be looking to improve upon our weakest positions, and GK is probably one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
It seems (for some) replacing players, (in various areas of the pitch) are a consequence of every poor result.
IMO it is difficult to confidently assess Ospina at this stage as there has been few occasions when he has been really stretched (pardon the pun). He was however at fault last night – but does that mean he is a poor goalkeeper? No, it simply means he made a mistake.
However when you look at title wining sides of the past (and present) they all have had a top/world class goalkeeper.
Blaming the goal for Ospina last night was criminal. I was surprised to see G.Neville criticise him. The only danger was coming from Gomis and we had Per, Koscielny, and Monreal to deal with him, so it was the defence's fault. Ospina had to first cover his near post when Montero had the ball, but our defence should have watched Gomis closer. However, the reason we lost the game was our finishing last night. Ospina is a good keeper, but we need competition in the area, so a WC keeper is needed in the summer.
Good teams are about balance not lining up the best players in each position. There are no obvious qualities about Ospina that make him a world beater but for some reason when he is in between the sticks we defend better and concede less.
Some of the names being thrown around like lloris or DDG have had shocking seasons before. Buying them wouldn't necessarily take us to some imaginary Level.
Look at what happened with Di Maria, Falcao or Cuadrado. It's not as simple as most people think it is. I don't remember Cech making many worldie saves like DDG, but all I know is he is a solid wonderful keeper u barely recognize.
I personally prefer keepers that remain behind the scenes. When DDG comes of his line that's when you see all his weaknesses. Same as Ospina against Oscar.
I would rather we defend better as a team rather than replace Ospina for the sake of it.
"However when you look at title wining sides of the past (and present) they all have had a top/world class goalkeeper."
---------------------------------------------
Not true. Real Madrid conquered Europe with an average Casillas. For the past two seasons Joe Hart has been average, but City won the league. Dortmund dominated in Germany with a keeper hardly describable as world class. The list is endless. If you sort out all other departments you can win the title with a good keeper who is not necessarily world class, and Ospina is good enough. With better finishing we would have won very comfortably last night, that's why we lost.
comment by Gunners_49 - Abou Diaby - The master of the ball (U7239)
posted 3 minutes ago
Blaming the goal for Ospina last night was criminal. I was surprised to see G.Neville criticise him. The only danger was coming from Gomis and we had Per, Koscielny, and Monreal to deal with him, so it was the defence's fault. Ospina had to first cover his near post when Montero had the ball, but our defence should have watched Gomis closer. However, the reason we lost the game was our finishing last night. Ospina is a good keeper, but we need competition in the area, so a WC keeper is needed in the summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While Ospina could not be faulted for our outfield defending, once Gomis made contact with the ball, it was a save he (or any other PL goalkeeper) would have made 9 time out of ten.
No one was arguing cout who is better between De Gea and Ospina. The point being made was De Gea has made more glaring errors than Ospina. He's particularly prone to conceding at his near post. If Ospina made some of the blatant errors Courtois or De Gea have made - Courtois has had some Lehman moments - he'd get savaged on here.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 57 seconds ago
No one was arguing cout who is better between De Gea and Ospina. The point being made was De Gea has made more glaring errors than Ospina. He's particularly prone to conceding at his near post. If Ospina made some of the blatant errors Courtois or De Gea have made - Courtois has had some Lehman moments - he'd get savaged on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The mistakes blamed on Ospina are far from glaring. Against Spurs, he was ridiculously blamed. The blame for the Kondogbia goal is nonsense too. He was wrong footed by a deflection. Yesterday, he was covering his near post after Montero raced past Bellerin into the area and had too much ground to cover when the ball was crossed to the far post. Neville's criticism sounded like ballacks to me.
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Ospina...
Page 1 of 3
posted on 12/5/15
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
posted on 12/5/15
Then I rephrase... what makes him not good enough?
posted on 12/5/15
He's not. Just standard reaction for a lot of our fans after a loss - get rid of the player/manager.
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 50 seconds ago
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what sense is he not good enough?
posted on 12/5/15
I've not understood it myself. There are tons of dodgy goals I've seen De Gea concede in recent months which would have had our fans baying for blood if it were Ospina. I just can't see what people are talking about with him. He hasn't been tested enough to determine whether he's good enough or not. He hasn't been a match-winner, but he hasn't lost us matches either.
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 50 seconds ago
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what sense is he not good enough?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ability.
I think he's good enough if we are happy being the plucky underdogs, maybe an outside chance at the title.
But why should we settle for that? FFP and our finances basically means we can spend a similar level to anyone in the league bar United.
We should be looking to improve upon our weakest positions, and GK is probably one of them.
posted on 12/5/15
I've not understood it myself. There are tons of dodgy goals I've seen De Gea concede in recent months which would have had our fans baying for blood if it were Ospina. I just can't see what people are talking about with him. He hasn't been tested enough to determine whether he's good enough or not. He hasn't been a match-winner, but he hasn't lost us matches either.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We could have DDG and some fans would still want him sold after 1 mistake.
Yesterday wasn't even a mistake imo, could argue Kos and Monreal weren't strong enough and Bellerin didn't stop the cross. Should they all be dropped as well.
posted on 12/5/15
Chris H (U15205)
Ability.
I think he's good enough if we are happy being the plucky underdogs, maybe an outside chance at the title.
But why should we settle for that? FFP and our finances basically means we can spend a similar level to anyone in the league bar United.
We should be looking to improve upon our weakest positions, and GK is probably one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What exactly is he doing wrong which is costing the team?
posted on 12/5/15
"We could have DDG and some fans would still want him sold after 1 mistake."
Mistakes are not the only way to judge a keeper.
Between Szcz and Ospina I think we basically have a choice - the former is more talented, a better shot stopper and has better handling but unlike the latter he's more prone to silly decisions which can cost us.
Ospina is more dependable but I think he's really top 4/5 keeper rather than a title winning one.
As for De Gea comparisons, that's just silly. DDG is a far superior keeper to either of ours in almost every way.
posted on 12/5/15
As for De Gea comparisons, that's just silly. DDG is a far superior keeper to either of ours in almost every way.
------------------------------------------------------------------------totally agree, not even close
posted on 12/5/15
"What exactly is he doing wrong which is costing the team?"
What kind of system is this to judge a player? Do they have to be done something in particular "wrong" before any kind of consideration around whether we can do better takes place?
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 18 seconds ago
"What exactly is he doing wrong which is costing the team?"
What kind of system is this to judge a player? Do they have to be done something in particular "wrong" before any kind of consideration around whether we can do better takes place?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why else would you want to replace a player?
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 13 minutes ago
I've not understood it myself. There are tons of dodgy goals I've seen De Gea concede in recent months which would have had our fans baying for blood if it were Ospina. I just can't see what people are talking about with him. He hasn't been tested enough to determine whether he's good enough or not. He hasn't been a match-winner, but he hasn't lost us matches either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Monaco? Spurs? Last night
Could've lost us Chelsea if he was rightly dismissed
Sczesney >>>> Ospina
posted on 12/5/15
But Chris we can theoretically do better in all positions until we get messi and Ronaldo.
The OPs point is given that Odpina has played half a season what criteria is being used to judge him as a poor keeper?
I have also seen poor mistakes from DDG and Courtois but little is ever said as they are probably tall enough or young.
posted on 12/5/15
Nobody talks about Adam's goal vs Courtois. If that had been Ospina everybody would be slaughtering him no end. I guess we have our frustrations as Arsenal fans, and somebody must take the stick.
posted on 12/5/15
He is not a bad keeper he is pretty good. He is just not world class like Chelsea united and at times city have. How many times has he made a save that has made you applaud or that surprised you.
Our whole team is very good. We need now to be looking towards the world class bracket to improve and reach the Bayerns of this world
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Grand Cannon (U18697)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Chris H (U15205)
posted 50 seconds ago
Not being good enough does not equal being a bad player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what sense is he not good enough?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ability.
I think he's good enough if we are happy being the plucky underdogs, maybe an outside chance at the title.
But why should we settle for that? FFP and our finances basically means we can spend a similar level to anyone in the league bar United.
We should be looking to improve upon our weakest positions, and GK is probably one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
posted on 12/5/15
It seems (for some) replacing players, (in various areas of the pitch) are a consequence of every poor result.
IMO it is difficult to confidently assess Ospina at this stage as there has been few occasions when he has been really stretched (pardon the pun). He was however at fault last night – but does that mean he is a poor goalkeeper? No, it simply means he made a mistake.
However when you look at title wining sides of the past (and present) they all have had a top/world class goalkeeper.
posted on 12/5/15
Blaming the goal for Ospina last night was criminal. I was surprised to see G.Neville criticise him. The only danger was coming from Gomis and we had Per, Koscielny, and Monreal to deal with him, so it was the defence's fault. Ospina had to first cover his near post when Montero had the ball, but our defence should have watched Gomis closer. However, the reason we lost the game was our finishing last night. Ospina is a good keeper, but we need competition in the area, so a WC keeper is needed in the summer.
posted on 12/5/15
Good teams are about balance not lining up the best players in each position. There are no obvious qualities about Ospina that make him a world beater but for some reason when he is in between the sticks we defend better and concede less.
Some of the names being thrown around like lloris or DDG have had shocking seasons before. Buying them wouldn't necessarily take us to some imaginary Level.
Look at what happened with Di Maria, Falcao or Cuadrado. It's not as simple as most people think it is. I don't remember Cech making many worldie saves like DDG, but all I know is he is a solid wonderful keeper u barely recognize.
I personally prefer keepers that remain behind the scenes. When DDG comes of his line that's when you see all his weaknesses. Same as Ospina against Oscar.
I would rather we defend better as a team rather than replace Ospina for the sake of it.
posted on 12/5/15
"However when you look at title wining sides of the past (and present) they all have had a top/world class goalkeeper."
---------------------------------------------
Not true. Real Madrid conquered Europe with an average Casillas. For the past two seasons Joe Hart has been average, but City won the league. Dortmund dominated in Germany with a keeper hardly describable as world class. The list is endless. If you sort out all other departments you can win the title with a good keeper who is not necessarily world class, and Ospina is good enough. With better finishing we would have won very comfortably last night, that's why we lost.
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Gunners_49 - Abou Diaby - The master of the ball (U7239)
posted 3 minutes ago
Blaming the goal for Ospina last night was criminal. I was surprised to see G.Neville criticise him. The only danger was coming from Gomis and we had Per, Koscielny, and Monreal to deal with him, so it was the defence's fault. Ospina had to first cover his near post when Montero had the ball, but our defence should have watched Gomis closer. However, the reason we lost the game was our finishing last night. Ospina is a good keeper, but we need competition in the area, so a WC keeper is needed in the summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While Ospina could not be faulted for our outfield defending, once Gomis made contact with the ball, it was a save he (or any other PL goalkeeper) would have made 9 time out of ten.
posted on 12/5/15
No one was arguing cout who is better between De Gea and Ospina. The point being made was De Gea has made more glaring errors than Ospina. He's particularly prone to conceding at his near post. If Ospina made some of the blatant errors Courtois or De Gea have made - Courtois has had some Lehman moments - he'd get savaged on here.
posted on 12/5/15
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 57 seconds ago
No one was arguing cout who is better between De Gea and Ospina. The point being made was De Gea has made more glaring errors than Ospina. He's particularly prone to conceding at his near post. If Ospina made some of the blatant errors Courtois or De Gea have made - Courtois has had some Lehman moments - he'd get savaged on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 12/5/15
The mistakes blamed on Ospina are far from glaring. Against Spurs, he was ridiculously blamed. The blame for the Kondogbia goal is nonsense too. He was wrong footed by a deflection. Yesterday, he was covering his near post after Montero raced past Bellerin into the area and had too much ground to cover when the ball was crossed to the far post. Neville's criticism sounded like ballacks to me.
Page 1 of 3