hes a top manager, but like most top managers, they dance around the top clubs with a very small chance of failure.
mourinho has been clever in picking clubs where he will get massive financial backing to top up a strong team.

If he was to go to a mid table team and transform them into title winners then he goes down as one of the best...cant see him ever doing that though so he remains a whinging prikk

comment by Emre Can really is that good! (U9282)
posted 2 minutes ago
hes a top manager, but like most top managers, they dance around the top clubs with a very small chance of failure.
mourinho has been clever in picking clubs where he will get massive financial backing to top up a strong team.

If he was to go to a mid table team and transform them into title winners then he goes down as one of the best...cant see him ever doing that though so he remains a whinging prikk
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Exactly my point

comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 3 minutes ago
Mourinho is the ultimate short-term manager, basically.
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The greatest "Short term fix" in the game. If you are a club with money, desperate for results. Jose is the man for you.

He's a 'great' manager in that sense. But great as he is, his limited short term use by definition, dictates that he can never be considered amongst the 'greatest' People hailing him one or arguing he has a case to be considered are confusing greatness and success.

'Greatness' in any walk of life is measured by a different scale. Huge success does not dictate you'll be seen as great. As greatness doesn't dictate you will necessarily be the most successful. Some of football's "Greatest" players never came anywhere near a world cup winners medal as plenty winners medal holders have never been 'greats' of the game for example.

IMO Murinho misses one vital element to 'Greatness' in football management terms. A positive legacy. EVERY one of the football managers hailed as the 'greatest' has left a legacy at the clubs they managed.

"Great" football managers CREATE players as well as buying them. They BUILD something at the clubs they manage and in doing so they tend to influence the entire world of football. FOR THE BETTER! They graciously step aside or move "upstairs" after years of service. So long some players have spent as much time with them as they have their parents.

Jose will go down in history as one of the most successful managers of all time but never one of the 'greatest' because the bottom line is...

GREAT managers do so so much more than just win trophies!

comment by WengersBodyguard2 (U8276)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 3 minutes ago
Mourinho is the ultimate short-term manager, basically.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


The greatest "Short term fix" in the game. If you are a club with money, desperate for results. Jose is the man for you.

He's a 'great' manager in that sense. But great as he is, his limited short term use by definition, dictates that he can never be considered amongst the 'greatest' People hailing him one or arguing he has a case to be considered are confusing greatness and success.

'Greatness' in any walk of life is measured by a different scale. Huge success does not dictate you'll be seen as great. As greatness doesn't dictate you will necessarily be the most successful. Some of football's "Greatest" players never came anywhere near a world cup winners medal as plenty winners medal holders have never been 'greats' of the game for example.

IMO Murinho misses one vital element to 'Greatness' in football management terms. A positive legacy. EVERY one of the football managers hailed as the 'greatest' has left a legacy at the clubs they managed.

"Great" football managers CREATE players as well as buying them. They BUILD something at the clubs they manage and in doing so they tend to influence the entire world of football. FOR THE BETTER! They graciously step aside or move "upstairs" after years of service. So long some players have spent as much time with them as they have their parents.

Jose will go down in history as one of the most successful managers of all time but never one of the 'greatest' because the bottom line is...

GREAT managers do so so much more than just win trophies!
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Very well put.

As for Mourhine being a tactical genius, does this also mean that the manager of the Greece Team that won the Euros in 2004 was also a genius?

Tactical genius?? Remains to be seen.

Absolute Master of a particular tactic?? Without shadow of a doubt, ABSOLUTELY.

Wenger'sBodyguard, that really is a load of bu.llshe1t sophistry. It probably sounded clever, but it isn't. Maureen's legacy among Porto, Inter and Chelsea fans is assured and the guy could probably still coach for another 20 years and add to it. By any reasonable definition of greatness which isn't clouded in pretentious, specious logic, Maureen EASILY qualifies as a GREAT. And why the fack does every post of yours waffle on for an eternity.

And just because someone has worked in clubs managed with a different structure to Arsenal where Wenger is basically the chairman of the board, CEO, chief negotiatior, technical/football/sporting director doesn't diminish their achievements. That's basically what this silly "legacy" argument is all about: that Mourinho isn't as empowered at the helm of his clubs' affairs as Ferguson or Wenger.

He's not wrong though. Mourinho has never been a builder. He's never done what Ferguson, Wenger, Cruyff etc have done. He's a FIFA Manager Mode sort of guy. He does in real life what any guy playing FIFA can do, which is spend money to raise the level of a club within a few seasons.

It's a valid criticism of a man who does not respect the long term. Look at where Inter are now. Chelsea and RM will be okay because of their nigh-on unlimited funding, but Inter haven't been in the CL for four years now.

"He does in real life what any guy playing FIFA can do, which is spend money to raise the level of a club within a few seasons."

This same uninformed or deliberately misleading myth. So "any guy playing FIFA" could manage Inter and Porto to the CL title?

"Look at where Inter are now."

What does Inter's collapse have to do with Maureen? The club was mismanaged by Moratti. Several players were in their career twilight. And Benitez who replaced Mourinho was a disaster. The guy won a facking treble after fleecing Barca for Ibrahimovic. What the fack did you want him to do. You think every manager wants to spend a quarter-century at the same club like Wenger - especially when you're not even fond of the league you're managing in?

What a blatant attempt to misrepresent what I was saying. There was no suggestion that it replicable in real life, merely that Mourinho does the equivalent. But go ahead and berate others for making arguments in bad faith or with false logic.

Mourinho is Nitrous Oxide to a club. Unless the engine is built for it (Real Madrid), it's going to excel and then suffer. Several players were in their twilight, so Mourinho squeezed them for one last romp. Think of Ferguson's last season. Everybody knew United's squad was awful and they were overperforming. SAF only cared about his last blaze of glory.

This is like arguing Giggs was a greater player than Ronaldinho, or Zidane, or Shearer was greater than fat Ronaldo because of their greater career legacies at Man U and Newcastle. Sounds absurd to me.

Or that Wes Brown isn't a greater player than Kolo Toure.

Cherry picking is easy.

Sheriff your argument seems to be clouded by this notion of Wenger casting a spell over Arsenal fans. What is all that about?

"There was no suggestion that it replicable in real life, merely that Mourinho does the equivalent."

I'm sorry, but comparing Mourinho to Football Manager players is either taking the p!ss or a poor choice of words. Both are ridiculous.

"Unless the engine is built for it (Real Madrid), it's going to excel and then suffer. Several players were in their twilight, so
Mourinho squeezed them for one last romp."

Porto didn't suffer on his departure. His 2 league titles and UEFA Cup and CL in 2 seasons there set the foundation for Porto dominating their bigger rivals from Lisbon. Again, Inter's collapse had absolute fack all to do with him. It's a nonsensical argument. The ageing squad (most of which he met) needed regeneration with big spending and the team lacked the resources to do so. You may as well blame him for AC Milan's woes too. Your arguments are just blinkered with so much bias.

"Or that Wes Brown isn't a greater player than Kolo Toure.
Cherry picking is easy."

Well, you cherry picked a poor analogy. It's weird people thimk that a player like Ronaldo proving himself in difeerent clubs and countries is a plus, but Maureen doing the same is a negative. Apparently, he must sleep in the same comfort zone for 20 years like Wenger to be acknowledged as "building" a legacy.

Let me clarify.

Great manager's legacies. This is not how much they're loved by their own fans. EVERY "Great" legacy influences football itself. Shankley (spelling??) Ferguson, Cruyff and yes WENGER. ALL built teams/built up clubs that redefined the game. Other teams aspire to their brand of football and in doing so, raise the bar and so the general standards of the game. Ferguson redefined football with Utd, as Wenger did with Arsenal.

Jose has failed to do this. Nobody is rushing to run their club Murinho style and nobody wants their team play his brand of football.

Anyway, that could be deemed a matter of opinion. So I'll keep it to the one simple undisputed fact. A true football management 'legacy' HAS to include a youth system that produces talent. Great managers make great players, from their own youth setups. They don't just buy established talent.

Though I've seen many highly successful players loving and thanking Murinho for added success. I've yet to see one thanking him for the player they have become. There are IMO many reasons Jose can't be considered one of the greatest ever but the youth aspect is enough on it's own.

And my posts end up so long because there are clowns who need things explaining because they can't understand something as simple and concise as...

"Great managers do so so much more than just win trophies"

Though I've seen many highly successful players loving and thanking Murinho for added success. I've yet to see one thanking him for the player they have become. There are IMO many reasons Jose can't be considered one of the greatest ever but the youth aspect is enough on it's own.
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Terry, Lampard, Cech, Drogba

Jose has failed to do this. Nobody is rushing to run their club Murinho style and nobody wants their team play his brand of football.
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Atletico Madrid, Simeone

In what way has Arsenal or Wenger redefined the game? What a deluded load of twaddle.

And the crap you're talking about is management style and not "legacy". Success is by far the biggest, most tangible measure of legacy rather than your perverse attempt to twist it to your narrow definitions.

"Anyway, that could be deemed a matter of opinion. So I'll keep it to the one simple undisputed fact. A true football management 'legacy' HAS to include a youth system that produces talent."

In the modern game, no it doesn't. That has far more to do with club structure than management. Arsenal's academy is immensely overrated as well and Wilshere and Gibbs who aren't even starters are our only notable products in over a decade. Poaching Cesc because Barca couldn't offer him a pro contract or spending £15m on 16-year-old Ox doesn't make Wenger a genius. Maureen has worked with and improved tons of players. Hell, Maureen has mentored several notable managers including Clarke, Karanka, AVB and Rodgers - far more than Wenger in a far shorter career. I guess that doesn't suit your deluded image of "legacy".

Wenger's bodyguard, your posts end up so long because you want the reader to be overwhelmed with the amount of waffle you churn out, so the reader just gives up. It's a good tactic to be fair. B10 uses it very well.

Sherrif WTF is your problem and why are you so far up Jose's backside? What's your obsession with hailing him great?

You sure you were an Arsenal fan when Wenger arrived? In fact did you even watch football back in the 20th century? Jeez man, much as the English football world hates Wenger EVEN THEY widely acknowledge, that upon his arrival, he revolutionized, training methods etc. Hence prolonging the career of Adams and Co. Until Wenger "Sexy football" didn't exist here.

And I'm pretty sure it's Arsenal's financial model that everyone else began following. Wenger will leave an entirely reforged and evolved, stinking rich football club as his legacy. Why you think a short success period with a few trophies is a greater legacy than that is beyond me. Each to their own.

Oh and our academy has produced a dam site more top flight players than Wilshere and Gibbs. If you wanna argue about Wenger's achievements then at least take the time to find out just what they are since you look a right Muppet making claims like that to back up your stance.

comment by ＴＬＬＬ ★ (U4640)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Jose has failed to do this. Nobody is rushing to run their club Murinho style and nobody wants their team play his brand of football.
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Atletico Madrid, Simeone
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Oh sorry, one manager at one club. Don't get trampled in the rush will you.

And Terry, Cech, Lampard, Drogba were all established players before Murinho. Also I think you'll find a certain Mr Lampard thanks an entirely different manager and club for his becoming a top footballer

Mr Chelsea

I actually just try and deal with the arguments before their presented. In this case "Well look at all his trophies." So I listed what I deem "Greatness requirements" he lacks. Sherrif got a stick up his butt about something though