no he isn't. he's made DM his own

Comparing him with Kante is a good one as we have the ball the majority of the time meaning Dier doesn't necessarily need to make tackles as much.

Lesta adopt a more sit back tackle and break quickly approach so obviously they will make more tackles per game.

I also believe the reason Dembele is having a good season is due to Dier as he can play his game with less defence responsibilities.

Though I do expect him to drop back into CB in a few years time once Toby leaves

Isn't a good one that top line should read

Dembele does seem to play better alongside a powerful DM. His best form prior to this was alongside Sandro in 12/13

However, for me Dier is helped by our Belgian trio even more so

Often the English players will get credit when their foreign team mates deserve it more so

Then when the English players play for England we wonder why they don't play well together. And it's mostly because they rely on players who are better in possession, which they have more at club level

"However, for me Dier is helped by our Belgian trio even more so"

Don't agree with this tbh. Personally I think they all compliment each other and do jobs on the field that helps each other to be at the top the their game.

Personally I think you a devaluing Dier to much as he is a key member of the team.

The way that we play, and with our system, I'm not denying his importance

I just think that in most other teams he would struggle more. And that he's more suited to playing CB in the long run

Have to agree with what Hengy said. If Dier was playing for Leicester, the stats you mentioned would be higher.

Think this is a bit harsh on him to be honest. Let's not forget it's also his first season playing in this position week in, week out. He should improve.

Also, something I think goes somewhat unnoticed is his aerial ability in the middle. He's a beast in the air and he wins almost everything, helps us a lot.

comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 4 minutes ago
The way that we play, and with our system, I'm not denying his importance

I just think that in most other teams he would struggle more. And that he's more suited to playing CB in the long run
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said he's the long term successor to Toby IMO but to say he couldn't go and play in any other team is not true.

He'd get in Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool easy

Busquets has better defensive stats and he plays for Barcelona...

Anyway, defensive stats aren't the most important thing. I just have a hunch that he'll go back to CB at some point

If he is gonna go CB he should do so sooner rather than later. It's not an easy position to learn at PL level.

comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 4 minutes ago
The way that we play, and with our system, I'm not denying his importance

I just think that in most other teams he would struggle more. And that he's more suited to playing CB in the long run
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said he's the long term successor to Toby IMO but to say he couldn't go and play in any other team is not true.

He'd get in Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See this is what makes me think the overrating is getting out of hand. He would not play as a midfielder for those teams. Poch has identified him to play in a specific role in our system. That doesn't make him a better midfielder than Coquelin/Matic/Mikel/Ferandinho/Lucas etc

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 seconds ago
If he is gonna go CB he should do so sooner rather than later. It's not an easy position to learn at PL level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why he's 22. getting plenty of experience playing a defensive role already

He did play as a DM at times for Sporting, I'm not sure where his future lies but I think his versatility will be vital for England, we don't currently have a solid defensive midfielder in the squad. Henderson, Wilshere, Delph etc are box to box midfielders. It's good to have a player that will sit in front of the centre backs, he's still young and will only improve. I think he should be in the squad ahead of the likes of Carrick (still a good player but 34) and Phil Jones who I don't rate at all.

comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 4 minutes ago
The way that we play, and with our system, I'm not denying his importance

I just think that in most other teams he would struggle more. And that he's more suited to playing CB in the long run
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said he's the long term successor to Toby IMO but to say he couldn't go and play in any other team is not true.

He'd get in Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See this is what makes me think the overrating is getting out of hand. He would not play as a midfielder for those teams. Poch has identified him to play in a specific role in our system. That doesn't make him a better midfielder than Coquelin/Matic/Mikel/Ferandinho/Lucas etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Far better than Mikel & Lucas.

Playing better than Matic of this season.

Does a similar job to Coquelin who is not that good on the ball as people seem to think.

Rate Fernandinho but Toure & Fernando make him look bad.

comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 4 minutes ago
The way that we play, and with our system, I'm not denying his importance

I just think that in most other teams he would struggle more. And that he's more suited to playing CB in the long run
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said he's the long term successor to Toby IMO but to say he couldn't go and play in any other team is not true.

He'd get in Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See this is what makes me think the overrating is getting out of hand. He would not play as a midfielder for those teams. Poch has identified him to play in a specific role in our system. That doesn't make him a better midfielder than Coquelin/Matic/Mikel/Ferandinho/Lucas etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Far better than Mikel & Lucas.

Playing better than Matic of this season.

Does a similar job to Coquelin who is not that good on the ball as people seem to think.

Rate Fernandinho but Toure & Fernando make him look bad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just nonsense mate. Agree to disagree here. It's the sort of short-term view that led to many saying that Mason was a better player than Dembele 12 months ago

comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 10 seconds ago
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 4 minutes ago
The way that we play, and with our system, I'm not denying his importance

I just think that in most other teams he would struggle more. And that he's more suited to playing CB in the long run
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said he's the long term successor to Toby IMO but to say he couldn't go and play in any other team is not true.

He'd get in Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See this is what makes me think the overrating is getting out of hand. He would not play as a midfielder for those teams. Poch has identified him to play in a specific role in our system. That doesn't make him a better midfielder than Coquelin/Matic/Mikel/Ferandinho/Lucas etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Far better than Mikel & Lucas.

Playing better than Matic of this season.

Does a similar job to Coquelin who is not that good on the ball as people seem to think.

Rate Fernandinho but Toure & Fernando make him look bad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just nonsense mate. Agree to disagree here. It's the sort of short-term view that led to many saying that Mason was a better player than Dembele 12 months ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense is what you've just been spouting similar to the Alli nonsense in the summer.

As for Mason Dembele never read anyone saying he was a better footballer to Dembele but last clearly was playing the better football.

comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 seconds ago
If he is gonna go CB he should do so sooner rather than later. It's not an easy position to learn at PL level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why he's 22. getting plenty of experience playing a defensive role already
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think playing DM and playing CB is in any way a similar role?

At 22 you'd want him to be playing in his natural position imo.

Loads of people had Dembele on their 'to sell' list. That tells me they rated Mason higher

I already admitted I underestimated Alli. But the flaws I saw in him are still there, and I think it's why Poch likes to play him more advanced

I don't judge players by form. I look at the overall picture. Mikel and Lucas have played for two of the biggest clubs in the country for almost a decade and have played at the very highest level of football. Dier has played for Spurs in midfield for half a season

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 seconds ago
If he is gonna go CB he should do so sooner rather than later. It's not an easy position to learn at PL level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why he's 22. getting plenty of experience playing a defensive role already
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think playing DM and playing CB is in any way a similar role?

At 22 you'd want him to be playing in his natural position imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ledley King said playing in midfield helped his game as a CB and it makes sense, it's easier in comparison when you have more time on the ball and can see the whole picture

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by ツ Hєи-G (U9129)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 9 seconds ago
If he is gonna go CB he should do so sooner rather than later. It's not an easy position to learn at PL level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why he's 22. getting plenty of experience playing a defensive role already
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think playing DM and playing CB is in any way a similar role?

At 22 you'd want him to be playing in his natural position
----------------------------------------------------------------------
King played DM for Spurs before moving into his main position of CB and it helped him loads.

hes also played CB a few times in the cups and it's not like it's going to make him worse at CB because he's spending a few seasons playing DM is it.

At 22 he's got plenty of time on his side

comment by Analog (U17200)
posted 3 minutes ago
Loads of people had Dembele on their 'to sell' list. That tells me they rated Mason higher

I already admitted I underestimated Alli. But the flaws I saw in him are still there, and I think it's why Poch likes to play him more advanced

I don't judge players by form. I look at the overall picture. Mikel and Lucas have played for two of the biggest clubs in the country for almost a decade and have played at the very highest level of football. Dier has played for Spurs in midfield for half a season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes including Poch as Demebele hadn't produce anything of note 2 years. This doesn't mean he not a good footballer but he want producing/showing it on the field.

Similar to Bentaleb now. Clearly a much more talented player to Mason & Carroll but so far hasn't shown it this season so he's gone way down the pecking order.

To even think Dier wouldn't get a head of Mikel & Lucas is just ludicrous.

Well no, not including Poch because Dembele was in Poch's plans

I honestly don't think Dier would get in ahead of them, at their clubs. I'm not saying those two would get ahead of Dier at Spurs, however

I see your point but King is an exception to the rule. Players usually develop at a faster rate if played in their position from a young age.

King/ Dier will benefit from game time in general, not because they are playing a different role.

*Dier is a good player from what I've seen, I don't see why people would want him to move from that role anyway.