This rubbish that we werent a big club before Wenger is nonsense
Please look at our honours list before wenger arrived and our support base and you will see we were
perhaps not united/liverpool record but you'll be tough to find another club bigger than us 21 years ago.
Our Board only seem to care about the money.
players who earn a years' salary in a week
And a Manager who earns £8 mil!ion a year
======
A couple of contradictions there
perhaps not united/liverpool record but you'll be tough to find another club bigger than us 21 years ago.
====
Even without the Wenger years we would still be third most successful club in England.
How about the chelsea fan abuse on Rafa before he even managed a game...
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 21 seconds ago
perhaps not united/liverpool record but you'll be tough to find another club bigger than us 21 years ago.
====
Even without the Wenger years we would still be third most successful club in England.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats my point
Yeah, I was backing you up Willy
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by jar jar winks (U21185)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
Why do all other fans take the rough with the smooth, maintain a sense of humour, loyalty through thick and thin? But time and again you see childlike reactions from Arsenal fans.
======
Again, what teams take a manager through thick and thin? Your own fans turned on Redknapp, hated your most successful manager of the last 20 years - George Graham, turned Gross into a joke figure, turned on Ramos after a couple of games into a season etc etc etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Ramos thing isn't a true comparison. We had two points after eight games and looked like contending for relegation. Compeeky different situation. You lot are crying because you might not be top 4 for one time in 20 years.
Likewise Redknapp, some fans didn't like him personally but the fans never turned on him for footballing reasons. He sacked after finishing fourth actually.
Gross is ancient history. I can confirm we were garbage and came close to relegation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you didn't take the rough with the smooth, as the OP claimed. As for "ancient history" - all happened within Mr Wengers reign...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. I'm saying you are comparing the tenure of Christian Gross to Wenger. One was almost relegated and one won the double. Even by current standards, Spurs fans can confirm you are not as bad as Tottenham under Gross...
So I don't see the comparison.
You can make an argument that Redknapp was unfairly dismissed (he was) but we are talking about fan protests etc. There weren't any at Spurs. On Wenger, as I said above, he should be sacked.
No. I'm saying you are comparing the tenure of Christian Gross to Wenger.
=====
No I am not, I am replying to the OPs comment that other clubs fans take the rough with the smooth.
The big difference between Mr Wenger is that he is seemingly unaccountable and unsackable - whereas the likes of Gross and Ramos were swiftly dismissed. You lot didn't have the chance to build up the frustration.
Imagine if Arsenal were like we were last season, 16th at one point. The Arsenal fans would have burned the Emirates down.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
No. I'm saying you are comparing the tenure of Christian Gross to Wenger.
=====
No I am not, I am replying to the OPs comment that other clubs fans take the rough with the smooth.
The big difference between Mr Wenger is that he is seemingly unaccountable and unsackable - whereas the likes of Gross and Ramos were swiftly dismissed. You lot didn't have the chance to build up the frustration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frustration? One season in 20 without CL. FA Cup trophy like 2 years ago or something. On the back of one before.
You guys live in your world.
comment by Cesc + Costa - The Spanish Duo (U21341)
posted 32 seconds ago
Imagine if Arsenal were like we were last season, 16th at one point. The Arsenal fans would have burned the Emirates down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
Super Kami Willy - bit paranoid there mate? No one said you weren't a big club before 1994. But undeniably in 92/93 season you finished 10th and in 94/95 you finished 12th.
D'Jeezus - comparing dropping out of the top 4 with having 2 points from 8 games is stupid. That's not taking the rough with the smooth. That's just getting relegated...
As for "we are the 3rd biggest team" nonsense, do you think that means you should finish 3rd every year? A bunch of Leagues won in the 1930s has warped your Stats but I don't see Villa and Huddersfield fans ranting and raving that they should be winning every year.
Football is cyclical!! Surely that's just common sense!
Love your club, support and cheer them through thick and thin, and retain your dignity no matter what.
Aresnal fans just seem like kids who didn't get the exact Christmas present they had demanded.
But cause you all fuel each other, you can't see how ridiculous it's all become.
Wenger must wonder why he bothered with you lot sometimes. If you can do that at a club and still get chased out, there's no honour left.
Comfortably one of the most ill-informed, cliché riddled, pice of sh-t articles to pollute these boards - and that is saying something.
It's pitifully off the mark stuff like this, that really makes me laugh:
"The Arsenal performances at the start of the season weren't that bad but the rot has seeped from the stands to the players confidence and Wenger is getting the brunt of it all."
Yeah, and during that time, if you look at what the majority of Arsenal fans were saying, you'll see that optimism was palpable - even after the back-to-back defeats at City and Everton most Arsenal fans (admittedly not myself) were showing superb support and were fully confident of this season bringing something markedly different than the norm we've been served with for a decade. So how the feck you've managed to work out that the atmosphere from the stands is what's caused this is beyond me; it's actually the crap served up on the pitch (for a decade I once again add) that has caused the unease in the stands.
DJ is right. Wait until you have a manager who goes 12 years without a major title bar 2 fa cups. Where we decline every year, fall away from the larger sides every year and the club constantly ignoring fan concern.
We used to fight toe to toe with other top sides and a big loss (as in like a 4-0, 5-1, etc) would be rare. Now we get regularly humiliated by sides that are meant to be our equals.
I accept that we cant win the league every season and i also accept that we will get beat a few times by big sides and small sides. However i want us to at least show some challenge towards the title. Have a proper go. It annoys me how opposition fans (who cant remember before wenger) tell us to accept it because he made us a big club.
I wasnt around before wenger (i was 3 when he joined) but even i know that we were a massive club in England before 1996.
If we have a new manager next season i don't expect much change to happen. Having said that i think in the next 2, 3, 4, 5 years i expect better progression under a new manager than i do under wenger.
if wenger is still with us in 2020 then 4th place battles is our best hope until then.
If we have a new manager then who knows but it could be better.
comment by Nicky Law's bald coot (U6025)
posted 57 minutes ago
Arsenal have a lot of urban gremlins as fans who can't talk properly, can't afford to go to games so are a generation of slang talking twitter moaners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume the irony of this post coming from a Rangers fan was intentional.
"I accept that we cant win the league every season and i also accept that we will get beat a few times by big sides and small sides. However i want us to at least show some challenge towards the title."
===========================================
It's pointless, mate. Rival fans have created this narrative that we're all knuckle dragging, mouth breathing mongoloids who demand the league be won invincibly every year because they're too bone idle to actually take the time to listen to the number of reasoned and justifiable commentaries from supporters on why the fans are as frustrated as they are.
Well written article, but honestly, its badly researched and ill informed.
I cannot be bothered to type out all the rebuttals to short sighted opposition fans once again.
If the Arsenal board.dont want to compete then half the price of the season tickets. U can't charge Harrods prices and have poundland quality.
Why keep comparing United and Arsenal? United were PL winners when Fergie left we haven't won it in 12 years plus. Even after Fergie left you didn't exactly have a lean trophy period did u now. What was it 2 years without a trophy before u won the FA cup and u followed that up with the league cup and have an excellent chance of winning the Europa.
I can guarantee United fans would be up in arms if they saw the same groundhog day chit we have been seeing for ten plus years. Weak players, rudderless leadership, pathetic tactics and more.
United may not be up there at the moment but the board want to win the big trophies, they are linked to signing top class players whereas we are left with the leftovers.
Fack me, we should fade into obscurity like Huddersfield should we?
Our stats are not warped, we have continually won titles over the decades - the 50s was the last time we didn't win one.
Fans want whats best for the club. Sticking by someone who is leading us to decline is not the best for the club. It is that simple.
And to use your "warped stats" theory, then 3 titles in the first third of his time here surely fits that when talking about his success over 20+ years.
And there it is again, through thick and thin. Did you support Hoddle through his thin times? Nah, you turned on him a month into a season just like Ramos. Thick and thin, rough and smooth
comment by Cesc + Costa - The Spanish Duo (U21341)
posted 11 minutes ago
Imagine if Arsenal were like we were last season, 16th at one point. The Arsenal fans would have burned the Emirates down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone knew the players weren't playing for Jose and it was one frigging season.
Aresnal fans just seem like kids who didn't get the exact Christmas present they had demanded.
But cause you all fuel each other, you can't see how ridiculous it's all become.
Wenger must wonder why he bothered with you lot sometimes. If you can do that at a club and still get chased out, there's no honour left.
------------------
Wenger's overstayed his welcome. I think a lot of outsiders such as yourself can't seem to separate the first 8 years of his reign from what's followed since. Standards have clearly declined relatively. This season is not a one-off. It's been a long time in the coming. From being a CL quarters/semis/final team in the 00s, to now being eliminated by the 1st leg of the 2nd round. From title challenges in the 00s to 15+ points behind the leaders and humiliating, Hull City-level thrashings by big teams.
At some point you have to draw a line, otherwise you end up with a Brian Clough-style situation where the club legend ends up relegating the side he'd once-upon-a-time achieved greatness with. Arsenal fans have been extremely patient with the same manager at the helm for 20+ years. Just think about how long that is. No other set of supporters could possibly relate, aside from Utd fans who oversaw CL finals and PL triumphs in his final years.
comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 15 seconds ago
Comfortably one of the most ill-informed, cliché riddled, pice of sh-t articles to pollute these boards - and that is saying something.
It's pitifully off the mark stuff like this, that really makes me laugh:
"The Arsenal performances at the start of the season weren't that bad but the rot has seeped from the stands to the players confidence and Wenger is getting the brunt of it all."
Yeah, and during that time, if you look at what the majority of Arsenal fans were saying, you'll see that optimism was palpable - even after the back-to-back defeats at City and Everton most Arsenal fans (admittedly not myself) were showing superb support and were fully confident of this season bringing something markedly different than the norm we've been served with for a decade. So how the feck you've managed to work out that the atmosphere from the stands is what's caused this is beyond me; it's actually the crap served up on the pitch (for a decade I once again add) that has caused the unease in the stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed
I was actually saying to mates of mine that i thought unlike previous seasons, this team seems different. I thought Mustafi had made us more solid. I thought there was more mental and physical strength about the team. i was confident we would make proper strides this season.
Then december happened and it was obvious that nothing had changed.
With the club ignoring us every year what do you expect. I blame the lack of communication from the board. The lack of will to change from the board.
If they stopped only caring about the size of their pockets for one minute then perhaps the arsenal fans would behave better in your eyes.
They treat us like bad customers they don't like having to deal with. We are fans and we are the ones who built and build this team.
When you are over charged every season and you are not getting your moneys worth then you have a right to complain. If you pay a £1000 for a television and it breaks half way through a show, you're not going to just accept it because at least the first half of the show the tv was excellent.
But you're not children - your club can both improve and get worse. You should support regardless if you truly love them.
Maybe the number of 1st generation fans Arsenal attracted during the Henry / Vieira days has led to a number of 'plastic' supporters at the Emirates? They've only known the club do well.
But surely Arsenal fans don't feel they should / will finish in the Top 4 from now to eternity? Or do you?
But you're not children - your club can both improve and get worse. You should support regardless if you truly love them.
=======
And it is getting worse, hence for the desire for a new manager.
But surely Arsenal fans don't feel they should / will finish in the Top 4 from now to eternity? Or do you?
====
But surely we shouldn't have a manager who is unsackable no matter what? Can you imagine if Hoddle had immunity because he is a Spurs legend? Where would Spurs be now?
Sign in if you want to comment
Are Arsenal fans part of the problem?
Page 2 of 5
posted on 11/4/17
This rubbish that we werent a big club before Wenger is nonsense
Please look at our honours list before wenger arrived and our support base and you will see we were
perhaps not united/liverpool record but you'll be tough to find another club bigger than us 21 years ago.
posted on 11/4/17
Our Board only seem to care about the money.
players who earn a years' salary in a week
And a Manager who earns £8 mil!ion a year
======
A couple of contradictions there
posted on 11/4/17
perhaps not united/liverpool record but you'll be tough to find another club bigger than us 21 years ago.
====
Even without the Wenger years we would still be third most successful club in England.
posted on 11/4/17
How about the chelsea fan abuse on Rafa before he even managed a game...
posted on 11/4/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 21 seconds ago
perhaps not united/liverpool record but you'll be tough to find another club bigger than us 21 years ago.
====
Even without the Wenger years we would still be third most successful club in England.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
thats my point
posted on 11/4/17
Yeah, I was backing you up Willy
posted on 11/4/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by jar jar winks (U21185)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
Why do all other fans take the rough with the smooth, maintain a sense of humour, loyalty through thick and thin? But time and again you see childlike reactions from Arsenal fans.
======
Again, what teams take a manager through thick and thin? Your own fans turned on Redknapp, hated your most successful manager of the last 20 years - George Graham, turned Gross into a joke figure, turned on Ramos after a couple of games into a season etc etc etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Ramos thing isn't a true comparison. We had two points after eight games and looked like contending for relegation. Compeeky different situation. You lot are crying because you might not be top 4 for one time in 20 years.
Likewise Redknapp, some fans didn't like him personally but the fans never turned on him for footballing reasons. He sacked after finishing fourth actually.
Gross is ancient history. I can confirm we were garbage and came close to relegation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you didn't take the rough with the smooth, as the OP claimed. As for "ancient history" - all happened within Mr Wengers reign...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. I'm saying you are comparing the tenure of Christian Gross to Wenger. One was almost relegated and one won the double. Even by current standards, Spurs fans can confirm you are not as bad as Tottenham under Gross...
So I don't see the comparison.
You can make an argument that Redknapp was unfairly dismissed (he was) but we are talking about fan protests etc. There weren't any at Spurs. On Wenger, as I said above, he should be sacked.
posted on 11/4/17
No. I'm saying you are comparing the tenure of Christian Gross to Wenger.
=====
No I am not, I am replying to the OPs comment that other clubs fans take the rough with the smooth.
The big difference between Mr Wenger is that he is seemingly unaccountable and unsackable - whereas the likes of Gross and Ramos were swiftly dismissed. You lot didn't have the chance to build up the frustration.
posted on 11/4/17
Imagine if Arsenal were like we were last season, 16th at one point. The Arsenal fans would have burned the Emirates down.
posted on 11/4/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
No. I'm saying you are comparing the tenure of Christian Gross to Wenger.
=====
No I am not, I am replying to the OPs comment that other clubs fans take the rough with the smooth.
The big difference between Mr Wenger is that he is seemingly unaccountable and unsackable - whereas the likes of Gross and Ramos were swiftly dismissed. You lot didn't have the chance to build up the frustration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frustration? One season in 20 without CL. FA Cup trophy like 2 years ago or something. On the back of one before.
You guys live in your world.
posted on 11/4/17
comment by Cesc + Costa - The Spanish Duo (U21341)
posted 32 seconds ago
Imagine if Arsenal were like we were last season, 16th at one point. The Arsenal fans would have burned the Emirates down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This
posted on 11/4/17
Super Kami Willy - bit paranoid there mate? No one said you weren't a big club before 1994. But undeniably in 92/93 season you finished 10th and in 94/95 you finished 12th.
D'Jeezus - comparing dropping out of the top 4 with having 2 points from 8 games is stupid. That's not taking the rough with the smooth. That's just getting relegated...
As for "we are the 3rd biggest team" nonsense, do you think that means you should finish 3rd every year? A bunch of Leagues won in the 1930s has warped your Stats but I don't see Villa and Huddersfield fans ranting and raving that they should be winning every year.
Football is cyclical!! Surely that's just common sense!
Love your club, support and cheer them through thick and thin, and retain your dignity no matter what.
Aresnal fans just seem like kids who didn't get the exact Christmas present they had demanded.
But cause you all fuel each other, you can't see how ridiculous it's all become.
Wenger must wonder why he bothered with you lot sometimes. If you can do that at a club and still get chased out, there's no honour left.
posted on 11/4/17
Comfortably one of the most ill-informed, cliché riddled, pice of sh-t articles to pollute these boards - and that is saying something.
It's pitifully off the mark stuff like this, that really makes me laugh:
"The Arsenal performances at the start of the season weren't that bad but the rot has seeped from the stands to the players confidence and Wenger is getting the brunt of it all."
Yeah, and during that time, if you look at what the majority of Arsenal fans were saying, you'll see that optimism was palpable - even after the back-to-back defeats at City and Everton most Arsenal fans (admittedly not myself) were showing superb support and were fully confident of this season bringing something markedly different than the norm we've been served with for a decade. So how the feck you've managed to work out that the atmosphere from the stands is what's caused this is beyond me; it's actually the crap served up on the pitch (for a decade I once again add) that has caused the unease in the stands.
posted on 11/4/17
DJ is right. Wait until you have a manager who goes 12 years without a major title bar 2 fa cups. Where we decline every year, fall away from the larger sides every year and the club constantly ignoring fan concern.
We used to fight toe to toe with other top sides and a big loss (as in like a 4-0, 5-1, etc) would be rare. Now we get regularly humiliated by sides that are meant to be our equals.
I accept that we cant win the league every season and i also accept that we will get beat a few times by big sides and small sides. However i want us to at least show some challenge towards the title. Have a proper go. It annoys me how opposition fans (who cant remember before wenger) tell us to accept it because he made us a big club.
I wasnt around before wenger (i was 3 when he joined) but even i know that we were a massive club in England before 1996.
If we have a new manager next season i don't expect much change to happen. Having said that i think in the next 2, 3, 4, 5 years i expect better progression under a new manager than i do under wenger.
if wenger is still with us in 2020 then 4th place battles is our best hope until then.
If we have a new manager then who knows but it could be better.
posted on 11/4/17
comment by Nicky Law's bald coot (U6025)
posted 57 minutes ago
Arsenal have a lot of urban gremlins as fans who can't talk properly, can't afford to go to games so are a generation of slang talking twitter moaners
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume the irony of this post coming from a Rangers fan was intentional.
posted on 11/4/17
"I accept that we cant win the league every season and i also accept that we will get beat a few times by big sides and small sides. However i want us to at least show some challenge towards the title."
===========================================
It's pointless, mate. Rival fans have created this narrative that we're all knuckle dragging, mouth breathing mongoloids who demand the league be won invincibly every year because they're too bone idle to actually take the time to listen to the number of reasoned and justifiable commentaries from supporters on why the fans are as frustrated as they are.
posted on 11/4/17
Well written article, but honestly, its badly researched and ill informed.
I cannot be bothered to type out all the rebuttals to short sighted opposition fans once again.
posted on 11/4/17
If the Arsenal board.dont want to compete then half the price of the season tickets. U can't charge Harrods prices and have poundland quality.
Why keep comparing United and Arsenal? United were PL winners when Fergie left we haven't won it in 12 years plus. Even after Fergie left you didn't exactly have a lean trophy period did u now. What was it 2 years without a trophy before u won the FA cup and u followed that up with the league cup and have an excellent chance of winning the Europa.
I can guarantee United fans would be up in arms if they saw the same groundhog day chit we have been seeing for ten plus years. Weak players, rudderless leadership, pathetic tactics and more.
United may not be up there at the moment but the board want to win the big trophies, they are linked to signing top class players whereas we are left with the leftovers.
posted on 11/4/17
Fack me, we should fade into obscurity like Huddersfield should we?
Our stats are not warped, we have continually won titles over the decades - the 50s was the last time we didn't win one.
Fans want whats best for the club. Sticking by someone who is leading us to decline is not the best for the club. It is that simple.
And to use your "warped stats" theory, then 3 titles in the first third of his time here surely fits that when talking about his success over 20+ years.
And there it is again, through thick and thin. Did you support Hoddle through his thin times? Nah, you turned on him a month into a season just like Ramos. Thick and thin, rough and smooth
posted on 11/4/17
*60s - apologies
posted on 11/4/17
comment by Cesc + Costa - The Spanish Duo (U21341)
posted 11 minutes ago
Imagine if Arsenal were like we were last season, 16th at one point. The Arsenal fans would have burned the Emirates down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone knew the players weren't playing for Jose and it was one frigging season.
posted on 11/4/17
Aresnal fans just seem like kids who didn't get the exact Christmas present they had demanded.
But cause you all fuel each other, you can't see how ridiculous it's all become.
Wenger must wonder why he bothered with you lot sometimes. If you can do that at a club and still get chased out, there's no honour left.
------------------
Wenger's overstayed his welcome. I think a lot of outsiders such as yourself can't seem to separate the first 8 years of his reign from what's followed since. Standards have clearly declined relatively. This season is not a one-off. It's been a long time in the coming. From being a CL quarters/semis/final team in the 00s, to now being eliminated by the 1st leg of the 2nd round. From title challenges in the 00s to 15+ points behind the leaders and humiliating, Hull City-level thrashings by big teams.
At some point you have to draw a line, otherwise you end up with a Brian Clough-style situation where the club legend ends up relegating the side he'd once-upon-a-time achieved greatness with. Arsenal fans have been extremely patient with the same manager at the helm for 20+ years. Just think about how long that is. No other set of supporters could possibly relate, aside from Utd fans who oversaw CL finals and PL triumphs in his final years.
posted on 11/4/17
comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 15 seconds ago
Comfortably one of the most ill-informed, cliché riddled, pice of sh-t articles to pollute these boards - and that is saying something.
It's pitifully off the mark stuff like this, that really makes me laugh:
"The Arsenal performances at the start of the season weren't that bad but the rot has seeped from the stands to the players confidence and Wenger is getting the brunt of it all."
Yeah, and during that time, if you look at what the majority of Arsenal fans were saying, you'll see that optimism was palpable - even after the back-to-back defeats at City and Everton most Arsenal fans (admittedly not myself) were showing superb support and were fully confident of this season bringing something markedly different than the norm we've been served with for a decade. So how the feck you've managed to work out that the atmosphere from the stands is what's caused this is beyond me; it's actually the crap served up on the pitch (for a decade I once again add) that has caused the unease in the stands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed
I was actually saying to mates of mine that i thought unlike previous seasons, this team seems different. I thought Mustafi had made us more solid. I thought there was more mental and physical strength about the team. i was confident we would make proper strides this season.
Then december happened and it was obvious that nothing had changed.
With the club ignoring us every year what do you expect. I blame the lack of communication from the board. The lack of will to change from the board.
If they stopped only caring about the size of their pockets for one minute then perhaps the arsenal fans would behave better in your eyes.
They treat us like bad customers they don't like having to deal with. We are fans and we are the ones who built and build this team.
When you are over charged every season and you are not getting your moneys worth then you have a right to complain. If you pay a £1000 for a television and it breaks half way through a show, you're not going to just accept it because at least the first half of the show the tv was excellent.
posted on 11/4/17
But you're not children - your club can both improve and get worse. You should support regardless if you truly love them.
Maybe the number of 1st generation fans Arsenal attracted during the Henry / Vieira days has led to a number of 'plastic' supporters at the Emirates? They've only known the club do well.
But surely Arsenal fans don't feel they should / will finish in the Top 4 from now to eternity? Or do you?
posted on 11/4/17
But you're not children - your club can both improve and get worse. You should support regardless if you truly love them.
=======
And it is getting worse, hence for the desire for a new manager.
But surely Arsenal fans don't feel they should / will finish in the Top 4 from now to eternity? Or do you?
====
But surely we shouldn't have a manager who is unsackable no matter what? Can you imagine if Hoddle had immunity because he is a Spurs legend? Where would Spurs be now?
Page 2 of 5