Don't be too dispondent. You have played the 2 best teams in the prem (I'm not being arrogant, just realistic) at home and a rejuvinated Liverpool away in your 1st four games.
Bolton will get better. A top 10 finish is on the cards for you IMHO
Mavies wasn't good yesterday but was good against Liverpool, he never had a chance but he will get that chance against Norwich.
I also think Reo coker is better than you are making him out to be, a lot better at distrobuting the ball than Muamba.
Personally I would play the following side against Norwich.
Jussi
Boyata/ Steinsson - Knight/ Boyata - Cahill - Robbo
Tuncay - Reo Coker - Mavies - Petrov
N'gog - Davies.
Would go for Boyata CB IF Steinsson is fit, I don't think he is at the moment.
Not convinced about 4-5-1 just yet, neither Davies nor Klasnic are up to be being a lone striker and haven't seen enough of N'gog/ Tuncay to judge if they would be good as a loan striker.
We already got rid of the deadwood. Just need to drop Knight for Wheater, and I'd keep Boyata in at RB instead of Steinsson. Petrov was good going forward, but he left Robbo completely exposed all game. 1 on 1 against Nani he had very little chance of coming out on top. We do need to improve when without the ball. I'm a huge Muamba fan, but Reo-Coker is much better with the ball, not only does he complete more passes but he makes himself available to receive the ball which is important for a holding midfielder and I think him and Holden would be a great partnership.
I was going to respond to the OP in a bit of detail and point out that he is clearly panicking in his assessments, but then I got to the bottom of the article and saw how he wants to throw Holden back into the first eleven after 130 minutes of reserve team football, and think he's made that clear for all to see.
Risk Holden breaking down against Norwich at home? Really?
Risk Holden breaking down against Norwich at home? Really?
He won't be rushed back, whether he's ready for Norwich is up to the medical staff and the management. I see him returning against Villa in the cup personally, but then I am just guessing.
Largehat i think Holden with another reserve team game under his belt is a lot fitter than you give him credit for.
He has already said he feels fitter and stronger than at any stage last season his muscle mass has increased and he seems ready and raring to go.
The Norwich game is 7 days away and what better team to give him a comeback against if we waited till Arsenal or Chelsea he would be fitter yes but he would face much classier opposition and would as you say if not fully fit possibly struggle more against them than a team like Norwich who no disrespect to them are Championship at best.
I also find it odd to see some people defending Robbo who was at fault for the first 3 goals yesterday as he has zero pace and did not stop a single cross coming in against him when Alonso is back fit we must consider the change there as well.
Also Largehat if you think i am panicking in my assessments maybe i am i know we faced a wonderful team in United yesterday and a good solid performance from Liverpool but in those 2 games we were like headless chickens in the middle of the park.
I have not seen such terrible performances from us since the dark days of Megson so i may sound a bit Rebel like here but yesterday was an all time low for me as a Wanderers fan for the first time in many a year.
I also find it odd to see some people defending Robbo who was at fault for the first 3 goals yesterday as he has zero pace and did not stop a single cross coming in against him when Alonso is back fit we must consider the change there as well.
--
Do we have anyone else for that position ATM?
--
Also Largehat if you think i am panicking in my assessments maybe i am i know we faced a wonderful team in United yesterday and a good solid performance from Liverpool but in those 2 games we were like headless chickens in the middle of the park.
--
IMO, these are two of the best teams in the prem, we aren't going to be playing them every week and I think the QPR game is a more fair test for what we will be facing every week....
Drop Knight, and drop Kevin Davies.
Magic shall happen.
BWFC forever, besides the Holden thing the other thing that strikes me about your article is that you have created an article about shipping out dead wood and then gone through yesterday's line up an criticised 9 out of 11 players. My view is that we would have got hammered yesterday with any permutation of players, formations and tactics you can think of. The way united played and the quality of players they have in the form they're in is on a completely different level to that with which we can compete with. If we draw, say, Burnley in the FA Cup and hammer them 5-0 it will hurt them and there will be recriminations among the fans (but no on JA606 as there's only two of them) but ultimately it is academic. The Citeh fan is spot on.
I think the OP is being overly critical of the team yesterday.
Yes we were rubbish, but the main culprits yesterday were Robbo and SKD - no doubt about it.
They just aren't up to it anymore. The rumbles about SKD being dropped are getting louder and louder around the 'bok.
It was a poor, poor performance, which could easily have been sorted had Coyle played 4-5-1. That also allows us to leave our wingers a bit higher up and gives them less emphasis on defending - which both Petrov and Eagles are rubbish at. This would also allow us to play Kakuta instead of Eagles.
I was very disappointed with Boyata. He definately isn't a full back. Caught out of position numerous times, reluctant to get forward and let Ronney wander around him for their 2nd goal. Not good.
Moses, I know what you mean about not judging our season on the games against the big teams, but judging it on the game vs QPR isn't quite fair either. They are especially poor.
The good thing is, we have beaten teams that will finish lower than us (alright, one!) and lost to the teams that will finish above us. No need to panic
Personally i think Robinson was the weak link yesterday, three goals came from crosses or runs down our left side, he isn't completely to blame as he gets no help from Petrov who cant tackle his way out of a paper bag and doesn't track back enough.
I also think the time has come for Super Kev to take more of a back seat and see what the new lads can do upfront.He commits too many fouls and his influence is waning especially against quality centre backs who can stand up to him.
It's ridiculous that fans are having a go at Petrov for not covering Robbo defensively. It's his job to defend, not Petrov. If he can't deal with players 1vs1 then he shouldn't be playing. Petrov was our only attacking force yesterday, why would you want to quash that just because Robbo needs help?
Because a team needs balance, I don't want use to lose 3-2 every week because Petrov get's some crosses in but can't defend.
One step at a time. Firstly get our striker situation sorted. Some combo of Klas/Eggnog/Tuncay with SKD on the bench. That right there will take some settling in time.
After that Wheater in for Zat, Alonso for Robbo....and Holden/Pratts in..... lets see how we stand after that lot.
Do you think Fergie would let his wingers get away with not tracking back? All the best teams have wide players who are prepared to do both jobs.
De Gea, Evra, Jones, Ferdinand, Evans (Smalling 61), Anderson, Cleverly (Carrick)
My question is: Are the above players so much better than ours? Is that a scary big-name line up? I say no..
It's the following forward line that is the diference and was the diference yesterday.
Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young.
Faster, more skillful, more vision etc etc......we need to move towards that type of forward. Nippy & tricky.
I'd like to see:
Bogdan/Jussi
Steinsson Boyata Cahill Alonso
Eagles Pratley Reo Coker Petrov
Tuncay N'Gog
I'd like to see Mears, Holden and Lee introduced when fit.
I'm regards to Eagles, he was signed as a back up player to Lee. He was never going to be as good, we are missing our 2 key players and when we are saying we should be doing this we should be doing that, we have to remember the circumstances. I'd drop Knight and Robbo, both dnt have enough pace and in the PL that a real issue as it's the quickest league in th world.
Eagles has to play until Lee is back, Tuncay could play there which would allow Klasnic to play up top but then switching between 442 and 451 while were playing is not possible. Having Tuncay up front means he can drop back in the second striker role and go deep ala Rooney. N'Gog can stay up top and use his pace, strength height to hold up play, beat a defender as he is a skilful player.
We would have a different team, at the minute but Ricketts, Alonso, Mears, Holden an Lee are injured. Mears would be a welcome addition at RB for me because he is pacey, and if he has problems with positioning like Steinsson, he has the pace to get back.
Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young.
---
They are arguably some of the best players in the league and around £70m worth of talent, we can't compete with that.
Even without them four, they have enough talent to beat us.
This time last season people where saying Rooney was done, worth nowt, usless etc......Nani couldn't get into the team on regular basis and threatened to be off. Not sure if Utd were the only ones to make a bid for AshleyYoung.
There's something in the training/coaching/fitness that makes ok players look like world beaters. Give them some credit I suppose.
This time last season people where saying Rooney was done, worth nowt, usless etc......Nani couldn't get into the team on regular basis and threatened to be off. Not sure if Utd were the only ones to make a bid for AshleyYoung.
--
Form is temporary, class is permanent. They are all very good players, £70m worth.
£70m for those four? And the rest. Rooney at his best has got to be worth the £50m Torres at his best is worth, if not more. The other three are all worth well over £10m too. Probably about £50m between them. Our 'front four' consists of three free transfers and a £1.5m signing, who was bought for a fair price.
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Time to ship out some dead wood.
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posted on 11/9/11
Don't be too dispondent. You have played the 2 best teams in the prem (I'm not being arrogant, just realistic) at home and a rejuvinated Liverpool away in your 1st four games.
Bolton will get better. A top 10 finish is on the cards for you IMHO
posted on 11/9/11
Mavies wasn't good yesterday but was good against Liverpool, he never had a chance but he will get that chance against Norwich.
I also think Reo coker is better than you are making him out to be, a lot better at distrobuting the ball than Muamba.
Personally I would play the following side against Norwich.
Jussi
Boyata/ Steinsson - Knight/ Boyata - Cahill - Robbo
Tuncay - Reo Coker - Mavies - Petrov
N'gog - Davies.
Would go for Boyata CB IF Steinsson is fit, I don't think he is at the moment.
Not convinced about 4-5-1 just yet, neither Davies nor Klasnic are up to be being a lone striker and haven't seen enough of N'gog/ Tuncay to judge if they would be good as a loan striker.
posted on 11/9/11
We already got rid of the deadwood. Just need to drop Knight for Wheater, and I'd keep Boyata in at RB instead of Steinsson. Petrov was good going forward, but he left Robbo completely exposed all game. 1 on 1 against Nani he had very little chance of coming out on top. We do need to improve when without the ball. I'm a huge Muamba fan, but Reo-Coker is much better with the ball, not only does he complete more passes but he makes himself available to receive the ball which is important for a holding midfielder and I think him and Holden would be a great partnership.
posted on 11/9/11
I was going to respond to the OP in a bit of detail and point out that he is clearly panicking in his assessments, but then I got to the bottom of the article and saw how he wants to throw Holden back into the first eleven after 130 minutes of reserve team football, and think he's made that clear for all to see.
Risk Holden breaking down against Norwich at home? Really?
posted on 11/9/11
Risk Holden breaking down against Norwich at home? Really?
He won't be rushed back, whether he's ready for Norwich is up to the medical staff and the management. I see him returning against Villa in the cup personally, but then I am just guessing.
posted on 11/9/11
Largehat i think Holden with another reserve team game under his belt is a lot fitter than you give him credit for.
He has already said he feels fitter and stronger than at any stage last season his muscle mass has increased and he seems ready and raring to go.
The Norwich game is 7 days away and what better team to give him a comeback against if we waited till Arsenal or Chelsea he would be fitter yes but he would face much classier opposition and would as you say if not fully fit possibly struggle more against them than a team like Norwich who no disrespect to them are Championship at best.
I also find it odd to see some people defending Robbo who was at fault for the first 3 goals yesterday as he has zero pace and did not stop a single cross coming in against him when Alonso is back fit we must consider the change there as well.
Also Largehat if you think i am panicking in my assessments maybe i am i know we faced a wonderful team in United yesterday and a good solid performance from Liverpool but in those 2 games we were like headless chickens in the middle of the park.
I have not seen such terrible performances from us since the dark days of Megson so i may sound a bit Rebel like here but yesterday was an all time low for me as a Wanderers fan for the first time in many a year.
posted on 11/9/11
I also find it odd to see some people defending Robbo who was at fault for the first 3 goals yesterday as he has zero pace and did not stop a single cross coming in against him when Alonso is back fit we must consider the change there as well.
--
Do we have anyone else for that position ATM?
--
Also Largehat if you think i am panicking in my assessments maybe i am i know we faced a wonderful team in United yesterday and a good solid performance from Liverpool but in those 2 games we were like headless chickens in the middle of the park.
--
IMO, these are two of the best teams in the prem, we aren't going to be playing them every week and I think the QPR game is a more fair test for what we will be facing every week....
posted on 11/9/11
Drop Knight, and drop Kevin Davies.
Magic shall happen.
posted on 11/9/11
BWFC forever, besides the Holden thing the other thing that strikes me about your article is that you have created an article about shipping out dead wood and then gone through yesterday's line up an criticised 9 out of 11 players. My view is that we would have got hammered yesterday with any permutation of players, formations and tactics you can think of. The way united played and the quality of players they have in the form they're in is on a completely different level to that with which we can compete with. If we draw, say, Burnley in the FA Cup and hammer them 5-0 it will hurt them and there will be recriminations among the fans (but no on JA606 as there's only two of them) but ultimately it is academic. The Citeh fan is spot on.
posted on 11/9/11
I think the OP is being overly critical of the team yesterday.
Yes we were rubbish, but the main culprits yesterday were Robbo and SKD - no doubt about it.
They just aren't up to it anymore. The rumbles about SKD being dropped are getting louder and louder around the 'bok.
It was a poor, poor performance, which could easily have been sorted had Coyle played 4-5-1. That also allows us to leave our wingers a bit higher up and gives them less emphasis on defending - which both Petrov and Eagles are rubbish at. This would also allow us to play Kakuta instead of Eagles.
I was very disappointed with Boyata. He definately isn't a full back. Caught out of position numerous times, reluctant to get forward and let Ronney wander around him for their 2nd goal. Not good.
Moses, I know what you mean about not judging our season on the games against the big teams, but judging it on the game vs QPR isn't quite fair either. They are especially poor.
The good thing is, we have beaten teams that will finish lower than us (alright, one!) and lost to the teams that will finish above us. No need to panic
posted on 11/9/11
Personally i think Robinson was the weak link yesterday, three goals came from crosses or runs down our left side, he isn't completely to blame as he gets no help from Petrov who cant tackle his way out of a paper bag and doesn't track back enough.
I also think the time has come for Super Kev to take more of a back seat and see what the new lads can do upfront.He commits too many fouls and his influence is waning especially against quality centre backs who can stand up to him.
posted on 11/9/11
It's ridiculous that fans are having a go at Petrov for not covering Robbo defensively. It's his job to defend, not Petrov. If he can't deal with players 1vs1 then he shouldn't be playing. Petrov was our only attacking force yesterday, why would you want to quash that just because Robbo needs help?
posted on 11/9/11
Because a team needs balance, I don't want use to lose 3-2 every week because Petrov get's some crosses in but can't defend.
posted on 11/9/11
rather lose 3-2 than 5-0
posted on 11/9/11
One step at a time. Firstly get our striker situation sorted. Some combo of Klas/Eggnog/Tuncay with SKD on the bench. That right there will take some settling in time.
After that Wheater in for Zat, Alonso for Robbo....and Holden/Pratts in..... lets see how we stand after that lot.
posted on 11/9/11
Do you think Fergie would let his wingers get away with not tracking back? All the best teams have wide players who are prepared to do both jobs.
posted on 11/9/11
De Gea, Evra, Jones, Ferdinand, Evans (Smalling 61), Anderson, Cleverly (Carrick)
My question is: Are the above players so much better than ours? Is that a scary big-name line up? I say no..
It's the following forward line that is the diference and was the diference yesterday.
Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young.
Faster, more skillful, more vision etc etc......we need to move towards that type of forward. Nippy & tricky.
posted on 11/9/11
I'd like to see:
Bogdan/Jussi
Steinsson Boyata Cahill Alonso
Eagles Pratley Reo Coker Petrov
Tuncay N'Gog
I'd like to see Mears, Holden and Lee introduced when fit.
I'm regards to Eagles, he was signed as a back up player to Lee. He was never going to be as good, we are missing our 2 key players and when we are saying we should be doing this we should be doing that, we have to remember the circumstances. I'd drop Knight and Robbo, both dnt have enough pace and in the PL that a real issue as it's the quickest league in th world.
Eagles has to play until Lee is back, Tuncay could play there which would allow Klasnic to play up top but then switching between 442 and 451 while were playing is not possible. Having Tuncay up front means he can drop back in the second striker role and go deep ala Rooney. N'Gog can stay up top and use his pace, strength height to hold up play, beat a defender as he is a skilful player.
We would have a different team, at the minute but Ricketts, Alonso, Mears, Holden an Lee are injured. Mears would be a welcome addition at RB for me because he is pacey, and if he has problems with positioning like Steinsson, he has the pace to get back.
posted on 11/9/11
Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Young.
---
They are arguably some of the best players in the league and around £70m worth of talent, we can't compete with that.
Even without them four, they have enough talent to beat us.
posted on 11/9/11
This time last season people where saying Rooney was done, worth nowt, usless etc......Nani couldn't get into the team on regular basis and threatened to be off. Not sure if Utd were the only ones to make a bid for AshleyYoung.
There's something in the training/coaching/fitness that makes ok players look like world beaters. Give them some credit I suppose.
posted on 11/9/11
This time last season people where saying Rooney was done, worth nowt, usless etc......Nani couldn't get into the team on regular basis and threatened to be off. Not sure if Utd were the only ones to make a bid for AshleyYoung.
--
Form is temporary, class is permanent. They are all very good players, £70m worth.
posted on 11/9/11
£70m for those four? And the rest. Rooney at his best has got to be worth the £50m Torres at his best is worth, if not more. The other three are all worth well over £10m too. Probably about £50m between them. Our 'front four' consists of three free transfers and a £1.5m signing, who was bought for a fair price.
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