Also rules have changed quite a lot. 300 these days is a cake in the walk. 2 new balls means spinners are rarely in the game. I am not suprised by seeing so many batsmen these days are averaging 45 quite easily. Back then averaging 45 was quite rare.
Let's not forget that in limited overs cricket, averages can be very misleading, Trott had an average of over 50 in ODIs but I never really felt he won us many matches, you could argue that some of his innings lost us some matches.
Botham on the other hand had a really poor ODI average (batting at 6 or 7) but won a number of matches with the bat, so whilst averages never tell the full story, it can leave out many, many chapters in limited overs version of the game.
Very true, just true, though Kohli does tend to win a few matches, and score when it matters and has a healthy strike rate.
Yes that's right, Kohli's strike rate and contributions to victory are very impressive.
Very true, just true, though Kohli does tend to win a few matches, and score when it matters and has a healthy strike rate.
---
I read somewhere that his record in the ko stages of tounrments is actually quite average(we,semi, final etc), I can't remember where I saw it but sachins overall stats in ko stages of tournaments is far superior than his similar to how amlas stats differ massively in ko games compared to your bog standard odi
Kohli average in knockout games is 23 while Sachin is 52.
Ponting is at 42 while Amla goes down to 17.
Kohli average in knockout games is 23 while Sachin is 52.
Ponting is at 42 while Amla goes down to 17.
---------------
I read something to that effect, pretty shocking the disparity between those
Yes Sachin has done really well scoring 80s vs Kenya and against Pak when they dropped him around 5 times.
Which knockout games are these? Only ICC ODIs?
World Cup Finals (Biggest Knockout game you can play)
Tendulkar Average 11.00
Kohli Average 35.00
World Cup Finals (Biggest Knockout game you can play)
Tendulkar Average 11.00
Kohli Average 35.00
-----------
I get the point your trying to make but that's a sample of what 2games? unless your willing to write of any player after 2 games
and I think it refers to tournament ko games across all formats
I also understand the point you are trying to make as you seem to be highlighting that Kohli's record in knockout games is not as impressive as his normal stats, but to use Tendulkar as some sort of benchmark is what I have an issue with.
His ODI career was littered with scoring bucketloads of runs but when it really mattered in WC Finals and many other crucial games against top opposition, he got out early.
As I've said, as a Test player Tendulkar was phenomenal and far better than Kohli has been so far.
its a direct comparison between the two in ko games,
again you bring up wc finals as a example of what 2 games? ignoring conveniently then he is the highest scorer of runs in world cups, most 100's and 50's as well, so if you want to narrow the parameters to wc finals it can be easily by counter argument be expanded to all wc games
Why are knockout games important? Surely they are important because you get no second chances and the pressure is really on. So performing under that type of pressure is very impressive. If you are praising a player for his knockout stats, surely his WC Final stats should be more impressive than an average of 11.00?
What you're saying is Tendulkar's stats are great in knockout games, but I am saying that he failed in 2 world cup finals, he performed against Kenya in 2003 (yes Kenya got to the World Cup Semi Final), Pakistan in 2011 (dropped multiple times).
in 1992, 1999 and 2007 India didn't even reach the knockout stage. 2007 remember when they had a virtual knockout encounter vs Sri Lanka (in the first group stage), India lost and Sachin failed. 1999 Super Six stage match vs Australia was a virtual knockout match (as India needed to win all super 6 matches to go through to SF), India lost and I'm assuming Sachin failed, (don't remember what he did in that match).
So my point is taking random knockout stats without any context doesn't mean much to me, just like the 2 matches I mentioned don't mean much to you.
this conversation veered of by mentioning specific criteria for wc matches, weather it was 2 games(by you) or the whole competition(by me),
the original point was in ko games in icc tournaments not just wc's! that's a set fixed criteria,
you can break it down by saying oh look at his stats in semi final matches or finals or even qf matches but the point was to compare their stats in ko tournament games
Yes, but my point is that some group matches played by both Kohli and Tendulkar have been virtual knockout games?
Kohli may have a very good average in these games and Tendulkar may have a very poor one. The pressure in these games surely must be the same as a knockout game.
You wanting a fixed criteria means you simply do not care why you are comparing, you just want it to be fixed?
Maybe we should look at how many runs they made when they are clean shaven. Tendulkar has more runs, hence he is the winner. Who cares about the reason for this comparison, at least we have a fixed criteria.
seriously? wanting a set criteria for a ko game is the same as a player being shaven?
your more than welcome to find the stats for final group game matches but i'm fairly confident tendulkers avg will still be quiet a bit higher
Kohli has a much higher average overall.
But people decided to break in down by knockout games, so all I've said is if you want to break it down by knockout games then do so, but don't just give me an average, give me some context.
Please give me an example of a knockout game against top opposition in the latter stages of an ICC tournament that Tendulkar has performed in? Don't limit it to World Cups, look at the T20 World Cup (which I'm assuming he has never even played in) or look at the Champions Trophy, please give me an example?
the stats were given by another poster pointing out tendulkers 20+ run higher average in ko games, you can moan about context all you want and the opposition faced but the stats have already been provided, it was a pretty simple thing to compare yet you seem to be more interested in comparing their beards
My opinion is that simple comparisons and no context is great for casual fans, but I assumed that the posters here are true fans.
India fans don't care about such things. We love them both equal. They will always be hero in our nation
comment by chooshanguru (U21387)
posted 35 minutes ago
India fans don't care about such things. We love them both equal. They will always be hero in our nation
=========================================
Thanks for your wonderful thoughts and they would be well placed in a Disney Channel movie.
However, the question here was has Kohli surpassed Tendulkar, I think he definitely will in ODIs, but Tendulkar will comfortably ahead in Tests.
You have offered no opinion, please share and we can discuss
I dont have a say on this as they are high heros in my eyes. Would person compare ther mum and dad like the same way? Dad might bring in income but mum do the running of house so in total both the same. Children love both of them and so not get in so much detail to compare. These two players are similar way different but we love them same for achievement of India cricket in this era
Just true, I agree with guru here.. think what he's trying to say is that kohli and sachin are the husband and wife of Indian cricket... forget stats. You should only compare the two on that alone - so in that context is sachin the mum or the dad of Indian cricket?
I really don't like my father as he behaves strangely with me and my mother.On the other hand,I love my mother as she is great.My father behaves like an immature person and loves his nephews and nieces more than me.Also,he wastes money and is very miser when I ask him for money but opens his pursr the moment somebody else asks for cash--be it servants or other relatives.
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Virat Kohli
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posted on 9/9/17
Yes I think so U19770.
posted on 9/9/17
Also rules have changed quite a lot. 300 these days is a cake in the walk. 2 new balls means spinners are rarely in the game. I am not suprised by seeing so many batsmen these days are averaging 45 quite easily. Back then averaging 45 was quite rare.
posted on 11/9/17
Let's not forget that in limited overs cricket, averages can be very misleading, Trott had an average of over 50 in ODIs but I never really felt he won us many matches, you could argue that some of his innings lost us some matches.
Botham on the other hand had a really poor ODI average (batting at 6 or 7) but won a number of matches with the bat, so whilst averages never tell the full story, it can leave out many, many chapters in limited overs version of the game.
posted on 11/9/17
Very true, just true, though Kohli does tend to win a few matches, and score when it matters and has a healthy strike rate.
posted on 12/9/17
Yes that's right, Kohli's strike rate and contributions to victory are very impressive.
posted on 18/9/17
Very true, just true, though Kohli does tend to win a few matches, and score when it matters and has a healthy strike rate.
---
I read somewhere that his record in the ko stages of tounrments is actually quite average(we,semi, final etc), I can't remember where I saw it but sachins overall stats in ko stages of tournaments is far superior than his similar to how amlas stats differ massively in ko games compared to your bog standard odi
posted on 19/9/17
Kohli average in knockout games is 23 while Sachin is 52.
Ponting is at 42 while Amla goes down to 17.
posted on 19/9/17
Kohli average in knockout games is 23 while Sachin is 52.
Ponting is at 42 while Amla goes down to 17.
---------------
I read something to that effect, pretty shocking the disparity between those
posted on 19/9/17
Yes Sachin has done really well scoring 80s vs Kenya and against Pak when they dropped him around 5 times.
Which knockout games are these? Only ICC ODIs?
posted on 19/9/17
World Cup Finals (Biggest Knockout game you can play)
Tendulkar Average 11.00
Kohli Average 35.00
posted on 19/9/17
World Cup Finals (Biggest Knockout game you can play)
Tendulkar Average 11.00
Kohli Average 35.00
-----------
I get the point your trying to make but that's a sample of what 2games? unless your willing to write of any player after 2 games
and I think it refers to tournament ko games across all formats
posted on 19/9/17
I also understand the point you are trying to make as you seem to be highlighting that Kohli's record in knockout games is not as impressive as his normal stats, but to use Tendulkar as some sort of benchmark is what I have an issue with.
His ODI career was littered with scoring bucketloads of runs but when it really mattered in WC Finals and many other crucial games against top opposition, he got out early.
As I've said, as a Test player Tendulkar was phenomenal and far better than Kohli has been so far.
posted on 19/9/17
its a direct comparison between the two in ko games,
again you bring up wc finals as a example of what 2 games? ignoring conveniently then he is the highest scorer of runs in world cups, most 100's and 50's as well, so if you want to narrow the parameters to wc finals it can be easily by counter argument be expanded to all wc games
posted on 19/9/17
Why are knockout games important? Surely they are important because you get no second chances and the pressure is really on. So performing under that type of pressure is very impressive. If you are praising a player for his knockout stats, surely his WC Final stats should be more impressive than an average of 11.00?
What you're saying is Tendulkar's stats are great in knockout games, but I am saying that he failed in 2 world cup finals, he performed against Kenya in 2003 (yes Kenya got to the World Cup Semi Final), Pakistan in 2011 (dropped multiple times).
in 1992, 1999 and 2007 India didn't even reach the knockout stage. 2007 remember when they had a virtual knockout encounter vs Sri Lanka (in the first group stage), India lost and Sachin failed. 1999 Super Six stage match vs Australia was a virtual knockout match (as India needed to win all super 6 matches to go through to SF), India lost and I'm assuming Sachin failed, (don't remember what he did in that match).
So my point is taking random knockout stats without any context doesn't mean much to me, just like the 2 matches I mentioned don't mean much to you.
posted on 19/9/17
this conversation veered of by mentioning specific criteria for wc matches, weather it was 2 games(by you) or the whole competition(by me),
the original point was in ko games in icc tournaments not just wc's! that's a set fixed criteria,
you can break it down by saying oh look at his stats in semi final matches or finals or even qf matches but the point was to compare their stats in ko tournament games
posted on 19/9/17
Yes, but my point is that some group matches played by both Kohli and Tendulkar have been virtual knockout games?
Kohli may have a very good average in these games and Tendulkar may have a very poor one. The pressure in these games surely must be the same as a knockout game.
You wanting a fixed criteria means you simply do not care why you are comparing, you just want it to be fixed?
Maybe we should look at how many runs they made when they are clean shaven. Tendulkar has more runs, hence he is the winner. Who cares about the reason for this comparison, at least we have a fixed criteria.
posted on 19/9/17
seriously? wanting a set criteria for a ko game is the same as a player being shaven?
your more than welcome to find the stats for final group game matches but i'm fairly confident tendulkers avg will still be quiet a bit higher
posted on 19/9/17
Kohli has a much higher average overall.
But people decided to break in down by knockout games, so all I've said is if you want to break it down by knockout games then do so, but don't just give me an average, give me some context.
Please give me an example of a knockout game against top opposition in the latter stages of an ICC tournament that Tendulkar has performed in? Don't limit it to World Cups, look at the T20 World Cup (which I'm assuming he has never even played in) or look at the Champions Trophy, please give me an example?
posted on 19/9/17
the stats were given by another poster pointing out tendulkers 20+ run higher average in ko games, you can moan about context all you want and the opposition faced but the stats have already been provided, it was a pretty simple thing to compare yet you seem to be more interested in comparing their beards
posted on 20/9/17
My opinion is that simple comparisons and no context is great for casual fans, but I assumed that the posters here are true fans.
posted on 20/9/17
India fans don't care about such things. We love them both equal. They will always be hero in our nation
posted on 20/9/17
comment by chooshanguru (U21387)
posted 35 minutes ago
India fans don't care about such things. We love them both equal. They will always be hero in our nation
=========================================
Thanks for your wonderful thoughts and they would be well placed in a Disney Channel movie.
However, the question here was has Kohli surpassed Tendulkar, I think he definitely will in ODIs, but Tendulkar will comfortably ahead in Tests.
You have offered no opinion, please share and we can discuss
posted on 20/9/17
I dont have a say on this as they are high heros in my eyes. Would person compare ther mum and dad like the same way? Dad might bring in income but mum do the running of house so in total both the same. Children love both of them and so not get in so much detail to compare. These two players are similar way different but we love them same for achievement of India cricket in this era
posted on 21/9/17
Just true, I agree with guru here.. think what he's trying to say is that kohli and sachin are the husband and wife of Indian cricket... forget stats. You should only compare the two on that alone - so in that context is sachin the mum or the dad of Indian cricket?
posted on 28/9/17
I really don't like my father as he behaves strangely with me and my mother.On the other hand,I love my mother as she is great.My father behaves like an immature person and loves his nephews and nieces more than me.Also,he wastes money and is very miser when I ask him for money but opens his pursr the moment somebody else asks for cash--be it servants or other relatives.
Page 2 of 3