comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 minutes ago
I don't really either, but I think Mourinho does (think he's effective).
I agree about your midfield, it's why I'm amazed all the pundits seem to be going on about the two Manchester clubs as much as they are and not including Chelsea. We're both lacking in midfield. We might get away with it, but we're definitely not the finished articles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How often do you see a PL team you'd describe as a 'finished article' though melts?
We've won the league several times and even the CL with truly average midfields, as well as deficiencies in other areas of the squad.
comment by Bumblebeetuna (U4302)
posted 51 minutes ago
When we have Fellaini in the team, we don't have much control of the game. As soon as the opposition push up, we struggle, just like Southampton the other day and even Everton. A good midfielder usually finds pockets of spaces to get the ball pass move and keep hold of the ball to control the pace of the game. Fellaini can' do that. He's too slow and clumsy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When we have Fellaini in the team, we don't have much control of the game."
Completely depends on the opposition and the circumstances.
I think melts hit the nail on the head earlier on when he talked about aesthetics vs efficacy.
Generally speaking, we're never going to look as attractive to the vast majority of fans with Fellaini in the side rather than Herrera. And I think that really clouds opinions on the effectiveness Fellaini is *capable* of bringing in certain circumstances.
There are times when deploying him at number eight will look horrible, but be more effective than playing Herrera.
We haven't played any of the very best midfields yet, with our current CM squad
-------------------
and this is what worries me, even a team like Southampton couldn't be pushed bk on Saturday, if they had players with a bit more cutting edge I dnt think we would have won Saturday, I hope im proven wrong but I still believe from what ive seen to have the same control issues in midfield when pressed
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 31 seconds ago
We haven't played any of the very best midfields yet, with our current CM squad
-------------------
and this is what worries me, even a team like Southampton couldn't be pushed bk on Saturday, if they had players with a bit more cutting edge I dnt think we would have won Saturday, I hope im proven wrong but I still believe from what ive seen to have the same control issues in midfield when pressed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 19 seconds ago
We haven't played any of the very best midfields yet, with our current CM squad
-------------------
and this is what worries me, even a team like Southampton couldn't be pushed bk on Saturday, if they had players with a bit more cutting edge I dnt think we would have won Saturday, I hope im proven wrong but I still believe from what ive seen to have the same control issues in midfield when pressed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A midfield 3 of herrera, Pogba and Matic will push teams back with mkhi and Rashford/Martial on the wing. Its easy to push fellaini and matic back
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
................
Are you suggesting Jose was deliberately allowing Southampton to run the game in the second half?
I said this was a dangerous tactic against Ajax. Better teams will beat us if we can't keep the ball.
The problem is that Mourinho's teams when they cede possession in midfield look to try and control the midfield off the ball. With Fellaini in there it's even harder to do given how poor he is off the ball.
The more Mourinho persists with Fellaini in midfield from the start of games, the more we'll struggle in midfield and the more likley we are to drop points.
Definitely not with Fellaini VC.
Rosso,
True, but it's about balance to me and I still think Chelsea have the most balanced xi.
I'm not saying they will definitely win it, just that they've been disregarded a bit and ourselves both overstated.
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
--------------------
so your implying jose's plan was to give up the midfield territory and allow them on to us without having a decent outlet?
------------------------
------------------------
A midfield 3 of herrera, Pogba and Matic will push teams back with mkhi and Rashford/Martial on the wing. Its easy to push fellaini and matic back
--------------
you think in the big games jose wont use fellaini?wishfull
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
Definitely not with Fellaini VC.
Rosso,
True, but it's about balance to me and I still think Chelsea have the most balanced xi.
I'm not saying they will definitely win it, just that they've been disregarded a bit and ourselves both overstated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although each of the three sides offers quite a different proposition, I don't think there's too much between them at all in terms of the bottom line.
Could be a great race this year.
Bear in mind Mourinho likes his team to defend space, not the ball. He's more than happy to relinquish possession as long as you keep control of space.
Neither Herrera or Fellaini are great at that. The former is better at defending the ball and pressing and the latter can lose his position at times.
To me, he clearly likes the option that Fellaini brings when you have the ball and you can get it up the field quickly from time to time.
comment by rossobianchi (U17054)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
Definitely not with Fellaini VC.
Rosso,
True, but it's about balance to me and I still think Chelsea have the most balanced xi.
I'm not saying they will definitely win it, just that they've been disregarded a bit and ourselves both overstated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although each of the three sides offers quite a different proposition, I don't think there's too much between them at all in terms of the bottom line.
Could be a great race this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep completely agree
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only good thing about this is that it will cost him his job.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 11 minutes ago
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
................
Are you suggesting Jose was deliberately allowing Southampton to run the game in the second half?
I said this was a dangerous tactic against Ajax. Better teams will beat us if we can't keep the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can allow the opposition's midfield to have the ball and control possession without ceding control of the game.
For me, the only really surprising things about this weekend's game were that we didn't take any of our opportunities to kill the game off in the second half and that Southampton were so good going forward.
I thought Lemina was great with the ball, and the movement of the forwards, Redmond in particular, and the support they got from the fullbacks was excellent. Lots of constructive, sharp and incisive passing, with often just the final ball missing.
They'll be fine though, Saints. A comfortable top half finish I'd guess.
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only good thing about this is that it will cost him his job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright Mex, calm down
As if, Mex has stopped posting on here because of Mourinho.
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 54 minutes ago
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As proved in the first four games of the season...
Oh, hang on.... hmmmmm
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 43 minutes ago
As if, Mex has stopped posting on here because of Mourinho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Long live Jose!
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11053229/manchester-utd-depart-without-fellaini
No Fellaini it seems.
While Herrera is a good player who is useful to have he seems like one of those players who is decent at everything (except shooting) but doesn't excel at anything in particular.
I've argued against this point in the past but seeing how Matic has done so far I'm probably right in saying you need better players than Herrera in your best XI if you want to challenge at the very top.
Well... He has a big chance tomorrow to prove he can get back to last season's form.
This is why we shouldn't get too wound up when our faves don't play for a while... We have plenty of games and these players will get their chance.
Sign in if you want to comment
What's up with Herrera?
Page 4 of 5
posted on 25/9/17
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 6 minutes ago
I don't really either, but I think Mourinho does (think he's effective).
I agree about your midfield, it's why I'm amazed all the pundits seem to be going on about the two Manchester clubs as much as they are and not including Chelsea. We're both lacking in midfield. We might get away with it, but we're definitely not the finished articles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How often do you see a PL team you'd describe as a 'finished article' though melts?
We've won the league several times and even the CL with truly average midfields, as well as deficiencies in other areas of the squad.
posted on 25/9/17
comment by Bumblebeetuna (U4302)
posted 51 minutes ago
When we have Fellaini in the team, we don't have much control of the game. As soon as the opposition push up, we struggle, just like Southampton the other day and even Everton. A good midfielder usually finds pockets of spaces to get the ball pass move and keep hold of the ball to control the pace of the game. Fellaini can' do that. He's too slow and clumsy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When we have Fellaini in the team, we don't have much control of the game."
Completely depends on the opposition and the circumstances.
I think melts hit the nail on the head earlier on when he talked about aesthetics vs efficacy.
Generally speaking, we're never going to look as attractive to the vast majority of fans with Fellaini in the side rather than Herrera. And I think that really clouds opinions on the effectiveness Fellaini is *capable* of bringing in certain circumstances.
There are times when deploying him at number eight will look horrible, but be more effective than playing Herrera.
posted on 25/9/17
We haven't played any of the very best midfields yet, with our current CM squad
-------------------
and this is what worries me, even a team like Southampton couldn't be pushed bk on Saturday, if they had players with a bit more cutting edge I dnt think we would have won Saturday, I hope im proven wrong but I still believe from what ive seen to have the same control issues in midfield when pressed
posted on 25/9/17
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 31 seconds ago
We haven't played any of the very best midfields yet, with our current CM squad
-------------------
and this is what worries me, even a team like Southampton couldn't be pushed bk on Saturday, if they had players with a bit more cutting edge I dnt think we would have won Saturday, I hope im proven wrong but I still believe from what ive seen to have the same control issues in midfield when pressed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
posted on 25/9/17
comment by United_kaz (U9943)
posted 19 seconds ago
We haven't played any of the very best midfields yet, with our current CM squad
-------------------
and this is what worries me, even a team like Southampton couldn't be pushed bk on Saturday, if they had players with a bit more cutting edge I dnt think we would have won Saturday, I hope im proven wrong but I still believe from what ive seen to have the same control issues in midfield when pressed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A midfield 3 of herrera, Pogba and Matic will push teams back with mkhi and Rashford/Martial on the wing. Its easy to push fellaini and matic back
posted on 25/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/9/17
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
................
Are you suggesting Jose was deliberately allowing Southampton to run the game in the second half?
I said this was a dangerous tactic against Ajax. Better teams will beat us if we can't keep the ball.
posted on 25/9/17
The problem is that Mourinho's teams when they cede possession in midfield look to try and control the midfield off the ball. With Fellaini in there it's even harder to do given how poor he is off the ball.
The more Mourinho persists with Fellaini in midfield from the start of games, the more we'll struggle in midfield and the more likley we are to drop points.
posted on 25/9/17
Definitely not with Fellaini VC.
Rosso,
True, but it's about balance to me and I still think Chelsea have the most balanced xi.
I'm not saying they will definitely win it, just that they've been disregarded a bit and ourselves both overstated.
posted on 25/9/17
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
--------------------
so your implying jose's plan was to give up the midfield territory and allow them on to us without having a decent outlet?
------------------------
------------------------
A midfield 3 of herrera, Pogba and Matic will push teams back with mkhi and Rashford/Martial on the wing. Its easy to push fellaini and matic back
--------------
you think in the big games jose wont use fellaini?wishfull
posted on 25/9/17
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
posted on 25/9/17
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
Definitely not with Fellaini VC.
Rosso,
True, but it's about balance to me and I still think Chelsea have the most balanced xi.
I'm not saying they will definitely win it, just that they've been disregarded a bit and ourselves both overstated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although each of the three sides offers quite a different proposition, I don't think there's too much between them at all in terms of the bottom line.
Could be a great race this year.
posted on 25/9/17
Bear in mind Mourinho likes his team to defend space, not the ball. He's more than happy to relinquish possession as long as you keep control of space.
Neither Herrera or Fellaini are great at that. The former is better at defending the ball and pressing and the latter can lose his position at times.
To me, he clearly likes the option that Fellaini brings when you have the ball and you can get it up the field quickly from time to time.
posted on 25/9/17
comment by rossobianchi (U17054)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
Definitely not with Fellaini VC.
Rosso,
True, but it's about balance to me and I still think Chelsea have the most balanced xi.
I'm not saying they will definitely win it, just that they've been disregarded a bit and ourselves both overstated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although each of the three sides offers quite a different proposition, I don't think there's too much between them at all in terms of the bottom line.
Could be a great race this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep completely agree
posted on 25/9/17
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only good thing about this is that it will cost him his job.
posted on 25/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/9/17
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 11 minutes ago
Who says Jose was trying to control the midfield?
................
Are you suggesting Jose was deliberately allowing Southampton to run the game in the second half?
I said this was a dangerous tactic against Ajax. Better teams will beat us if we can't keep the ball.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can allow the opposition's midfield to have the ball and control possession without ceding control of the game.
For me, the only really surprising things about this weekend's game were that we didn't take any of our opportunities to kill the game off in the second half and that Southampton were so good going forward.
I thought Lemina was great with the ball, and the movement of the forwards, Redmond in particular, and the support they got from the fullbacks was excellent. Lots of constructive, sharp and incisive passing, with often just the final ball missing.
They'll be fine though, Saints. A comfortable top half finish I'd guess.
posted on 25/9/17
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only good thing about this is that it will cost him his job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright Mex, calm down
posted on 25/9/17
As if, Mex has stopped posting on here because of Mourinho.
posted on 25/9/17
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 54 minutes ago
Jose will use Fellaini against anyone if available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As proved in the first four games of the season...
Oh, hang on.... hmmmmm
posted on 25/9/17
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 43 minutes ago
As if, Mex has stopped posting on here because of Mourinho.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Long live Jose!
posted on 25/9/17
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11053229/manchester-utd-depart-without-fellaini
No Fellaini it seems.
posted on 25/9/17
While Herrera is a good player who is useful to have he seems like one of those players who is decent at everything (except shooting) but doesn't excel at anything in particular.
I've argued against this point in the past but seeing how Matic has done so far I'm probably right in saying you need better players than Herrera in your best XI if you want to challenge at the very top.
posted on 25/9/17
Well... He has a big chance tomorrow to prove he can get back to last season's form.
This is why we shouldn't get too wound up when our faves don't play for a while... We have plenty of games and these players will get their chance.
posted on 25/9/17
Wednesday even
Page 4 of 5