Looking at some of the far left response to Ukraine on Reddit, is shocking.
They have grievances on western foreign policy and Nato - I get it (although, do not entirely agree). The sheer amount of deflection they do for Russian aggression, makes them very useful idiots.
I just watched a video of some Ukrainian people driving past a Russian tank that seemingly had run out of fuel and the driver joked that he’d tow him back to Russia and everyone laughed.
You have to feel that many of these Russian soldiers have no interest in killing their Ukrainian brothers. So sad 😞
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent⚡️
Multiple reports suggest that Russian forces are about to conduct heavy airstrikes and rocket attacks against Kyiv.
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 11 minutes ago
Looking at some of the far left response to Ukraine on Reddit, is shocking.
They have grievances on western foreign policy and Nato - I get it (although, do not entirely agree). The sheer amount of deflection they do for Russian aggression, makes them very useful idiots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine how you’d feel if the invasion of your country was sponsored by Applebees
https://twitter.com/JNkappers/status/1496904138768199690
USA
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
This situation perfectly shows why someone like Corbyn, would not have been competent in this situation.
There is anti-imperialism (which I do stand for), and then there is being anti-imperialist idiot.
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand - I do think a lot of people who are naturally eurosceptic and isolationist, myself included, need to recognise that what Putin has done in the past two weeks is frankly, an act of evil. He has initiated war on our continent and is brutalising a nation and its people.
On the question of the anti-Nato far left, I think they fear that even conceding that others are capable of bad actions somehow is a concession or sign of weakness, rather than of an active, adaptive, sympathetic mind that responds to the reality around them.
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
Adam Tooze
@adam_tooze
So we are now in spectacularly dangerous territory:
Brave Ukrainian resistance frustrates Russian initial attack -> Kiev refuses humiliating negotiations.
Russia about to ramp up destructiveness of attack
NATO members rushing weapons to Ukraine
EU/US announce major sanctions.
Javier Blas
@JavierBlas
BREAKING: EU, US, UK and Canada announce that "selected" Russian banks will be disconnected from the SWIFT banking system. The statement doesn't indicate names of banks, or whether this will stop oil and gas payments (my guess is payments will continue)
SWIFT statement
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1497700006647709700/photo/1
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try being in Oz. Our Tv is like this…
5:00pm - Opening titles for a show
5:02pm - Ad
5:05pm - Show starts
5:15 - Ad
And so on.
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 11 minutes ago
Looking at some of the far left response to Ukraine on Reddit, is shocking.
They have grievances on western foreign policy and Nato - I get it (although, do not entirely agree). The sheer amount of deflection they do for Russian aggression, makes them very useful idiots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.
Hate for America blinds some too👍
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man gyrating in jeans next to a news banner announcing the invasion of Ukraine...
Murica
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted about a minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man gyrating in jeans next to a news banner announcing the invasion of Ukraine...
Murica
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand - I do think a lot of people who are naturally eurosceptic and isolationist, myself included, need to recognise that what Putin has done in the past two weeks is frankly, an act of evil. He has initiated war on our continent and is brutalising a nation and its people.
On the question of the anti-Nato far left, I think they fear that even conceding that others are capable of bad actions somehow is a concession or sign of weakness, rather than of an active, adaptive, sympathetic mind that responds to the reality around them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put Sir, and my personal cynism concerning western foreign policy somewhat clouded my vision, but Putin in recent times has gone even further over to the dark side, and that takes some doing.
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also well put, Sir👍
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand - I do think a lot of people who are naturally eurosceptic and isolationist, myself included, need to recognise that what Putin has done in the past two weeks is frankly, an act of evil. He has initiated war on our continent and is brutalising a nation and its people.
On the question of the anti-Nato far left, I think they fear that even conceding that others are capable of bad actions somehow is a concession or sign of weakness, rather than of an active, adaptive, sympathetic mind that responds to the reality around them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put Sir, and my personal cynism concerning western foreign policy somewhat clouded my vision, but Putin in recent times has gone even further over to the dark side, and that takes some doing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree
Western intervention has been disaster in recent years. But I will not let my resentment to intervention, allow me to side or be apathetic to Ukraine.
I also do not appreciate Russian threats to Finland.
Right now there is traction towards a referendum on NATO, which would not have been conceivable really had Putin not lost the plot.
I can see the Finn's saying "Painu vittuun" to Putin.
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 2 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's a logical step to see that NATO has questionable history and Russia's current stance is wrong. The question of who has been more wrong shouldn't come into it. Both need to rethink.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
👍
Great to read some rational and fair posting here guys.....very refreshing.
Sign in if you want to comment
Arguing w/strangers cause I'm lonely thread
Page 2471 of 4911
2472 | 2473 | 2474 | 2475 | 2476
posted on 26/2/22
Looking at some of the far left response to Ukraine on Reddit, is shocking.
They have grievances on western foreign policy and Nato - I get it (although, do not entirely agree). The sheer amount of deflection they do for Russian aggression, makes them very useful idiots.
posted on 26/2/22
I just watched a video of some Ukrainian people driving past a Russian tank that seemingly had run out of fuel and the driver joked that he’d tow him back to Russia and everyone laughed.
You have to feel that many of these Russian soldiers have no interest in killing their Ukrainian brothers. So sad 😞
posted on 26/2/22
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
posted on 26/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/2/22
The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent⚡️
Multiple reports suggest that Russian forces are about to conduct heavy airstrikes and rocket attacks against Kyiv.
posted on 26/2/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 11 minutes ago
Looking at some of the far left response to Ukraine on Reddit, is shocking.
They have grievances on western foreign policy and Nato - I get it (although, do not entirely agree). The sheer amount of deflection they do for Russian aggression, makes them very useful idiots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 26/2/22
Imagine how you’d feel if the invasion of your country was sponsored by Applebees
https://twitter.com/JNkappers/status/1496904138768199690
USA
posted on 26/2/22
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
posted on 26/2/22
This situation perfectly shows why someone like Corbyn, would not have been competent in this situation.
There is anti-imperialism (which I do stand for), and then there is being anti-imperialist idiot.
posted on 26/2/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand - I do think a lot of people who are naturally eurosceptic and isolationist, myself included, need to recognise that what Putin has done in the past two weeks is frankly, an act of evil. He has initiated war on our continent and is brutalising a nation and its people.
On the question of the anti-Nato far left, I think they fear that even conceding that others are capable of bad actions somehow is a concession or sign of weakness, rather than of an active, adaptive, sympathetic mind that responds to the reality around them.
posted on 26/2/22
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
posted on 26/2/22
Adam Tooze
@adam_tooze
So we are now in spectacularly dangerous territory:
Brave Ukrainian resistance frustrates Russian initial attack -> Kiev refuses humiliating negotiations.
Russia about to ramp up destructiveness of attack
NATO members rushing weapons to Ukraine
EU/US announce major sanctions.
posted on 26/2/22
Javier Blas
@JavierBlas
BREAKING: EU, US, UK and Canada announce that "selected" Russian banks will be disconnected from the SWIFT banking system. The statement doesn't indicate names of banks, or whether this will stop oil and gas payments (my guess is payments will continue)
posted on 26/2/22
SWIFT statement
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1497700006647709700/photo/1
posted on 26/2/22
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
posted on 26/2/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try being in Oz. Our Tv is like this…
5:00pm - Opening titles for a show
5:02pm - Ad
5:05pm - Show starts
5:15 - Ad
And so on.
posted on 26/2/22
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 11 minutes ago
Looking at some of the far left response to Ukraine on Reddit, is shocking.
They have grievances on western foreign policy and Nato - I get it (although, do not entirely agree). The sheer amount of deflection they do for Russian aggression, makes them very useful idiots.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded.
Hate for America blinds some too👍
posted on 26/2/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man gyrating in jeans next to a news banner announcing the invasion of Ukraine...
Murica
posted on 26/2/22
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted about a minute ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 12 minutes ago
Still that poorly timed Applebees was ridiculous!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its surreal and so American!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A man gyrating in jeans next to a news banner announcing the invasion of Ukraine...
Murica
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 26/2/22
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand - I do think a lot of people who are naturally eurosceptic and isolationist, myself included, need to recognise that what Putin has done in the past two weeks is frankly, an act of evil. He has initiated war on our continent and is brutalising a nation and its people.
On the question of the anti-Nato far left, I think they fear that even conceding that others are capable of bad actions somehow is a concession or sign of weakness, rather than of an active, adaptive, sympathetic mind that responds to the reality around them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put Sir, and my personal cynism concerning western foreign policy somewhat clouded my vision, but Putin in recent times has gone even further over to the dark side, and that takes some doing.
posted on 26/2/22
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also well put, Sir👍
posted on 26/2/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/2/22
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 17 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary
There has been western missteps in the region for the past decade or so. I find myself reflecting upon my own ideals as a result.
I do agree with criticisms of NATO but I find something quite irrational with the far lefts reaction to the crisis. If they find themselves resenting NATO so much, that they are deflecting from Russian aggression; then in my opinion they are completely lost in their world of ivory tower politics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand - I do think a lot of people who are naturally eurosceptic and isolationist, myself included, need to recognise that what Putin has done in the past two weeks is frankly, an act of evil. He has initiated war on our continent and is brutalising a nation and its people.
On the question of the anti-Nato far left, I think they fear that even conceding that others are capable of bad actions somehow is a concession or sign of weakness, rather than of an active, adaptive, sympathetic mind that responds to the reality around them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put Sir, and my personal cynism concerning western foreign policy somewhat clouded my vision, but Putin in recent times has gone even further over to the dark side, and that takes some doing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree
Western intervention has been disaster in recent years. But I will not let my resentment to intervention, allow me to side or be apathetic to Ukraine.
posted on 26/2/22
I also do not appreciate Russian threats to Finland.
Right now there is traction towards a referendum on NATO, which would not have been conceivable really had Putin not lost the plot.
I can see the Finn's saying "Painu vittuun" to Putin.
posted on 26/2/22
comment by The goat did it (U10408)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by NPE - Puns are for Prats (U22712)
posted 2 minutes ago
There are legitimate reasons to criticise Nato, and there are both extensive historical and relatively recent reasons to understand why Russia's perspective and actions don't correspond to those of Western countries. Nevertheless, Putin invaded Ukraine and initiated an aggressive war, which nothing justifies. Even if you are ambiguous about the West, the brutality of Russia is now certain.
The tragedy is obviously Ukraine's, but while I am in Westerner navel gazing mode - it is somewhat interesting to see who was more wrong. Isolationists such as myself who thought Russia would act pragmatically in its interests, or the surprisingly bullish internationalists who don't realise Russian aggression also reflects the folly that greater access to free markets does not mean a country morphs into a liberal democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's a logical step to see that NATO has questionable history and Russia's current stance is wrong. The question of who has been more wrong shouldn't come into it. Both need to rethink.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
👍
Great to read some rational and fair posting here guys.....very refreshing.
Page 2471 of 4911
2472 | 2473 | 2474 | 2475 | 2476