Key question:
Is Pence more likely to take votes away from Trump or away from DeSantis?
Given his positioning, it looks like it could be the latter to me. Which will do nicely.
Caroline Lucas stepping down at the next GE now
comment by Jonathan Moore (U11781)
posted about an hour ago
Caroline Lucas stepping down at the next GE now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big loss for the Greens
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 1 day, 17 hours ago
Nah only joking, of course there's more to it and important context
1. The notion that this is a Starmer decision is both giving him too much credit and also unfairly paints him as an autocrat. This was a decision made by a panel of both NEC and REC members.
2. Sharing the stage with Loach wasn't the sole problem but, given the issues Labour had with anti-Semitism and the image of the party as a result, doing so was stupid at best
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no more to it, there's a reasonable article about it on the guardian today, and if you believe there's more to it, I do believe the hour long interview between Driscoll and the panel is available online.
1 member of the panel responds to Driscoll saying he was "Talking about the film's" responded with "You cannot seperate his views and work"
Which is interesting because both Starmer and Lammy have shared a stage with Loach and agreed with his views.
I do like that for years now we have had the painting of Corbyn as an anti-Semite because he "Failed to deal with anti-Semitism in the party" even had a ECHR investigation report that said he wasn't anti-Semitic, yet still he's accused of it.
Yet you seem to want to give starmer cover for his autocratic actions, by claiming it's others responsible. If he was against it, he would have stamped it out no? There's a continually building body of evidence against him, whereby at all elections since he took over starmer aligned candidates have been given advantages over others, and left wing labour members have often been prevented from standing at all.
Starmers supporters are seemingly heading in to the same sort of denial territory Boris Johnson's supporters used to inhabit.
Did Starmer and Lammy share the stage with Loach after he was expelled?
Doubt
Also now you're saying Starmer should show he's not autocratic by overruling the selection committee??
Lol ok mate
https://www.ft.com/content/e5d14398-e866-44b3-8ecb-4e6371167c6d
Could never have guessed Crispin Odey would be a sexpest
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0608/1388048-france-annecy/
Terrible
Hopefully no deaths or life changing injuries
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not even the hard left mate.
There are probably a lot of young progressives - social democrats and democratic socialists alike - who are being put off by this mad purge.
And on the purposeful blurring of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments, beyond the inherent false equivalence of the narrative, it isn’t a smart move electorally: there’s only a third of young Brits (18-24) who say they wouldn’t boycott Israeli goods right now. That speaks volumes about how young Brits see the actions of the Israeli state, and I would warrant that the vast, vast majority of those young people wouldn’t be very happy at anyone remotely suggesting that they have a single anti-Semitic bone in their bodies.
I really don’t think Labour wants to be working any harder to turn the other two-thirds of those young voters off.
Perversely his new green agenda is putting off the right of the party but largely supported by the left apart from obvious concerns from trade unions who by their nature can be small c conservative
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
You can't be a decent politician and please everybody but let's be honest Starmer has clearly pleasing more than enough to win the election
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not even the hard left mate.
There are probably a lot of young progressives - social democrats and democratic socialists alike - who are being put off by this mad purge.
And on the purposeful blurring of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments, beyond the inherent false equivalence of the narrative, it isn’t a smart move electorally: there’s only a third of young Brits (18-24) who say they wouldn’t boycott Israeli goods right now. That speaks volumes about how young Brits see the actions of the Israeli state, and I would warrant that the vast, vast majority of those young people wouldn’t be very happy at anyone remotely suggesting that they have a single anti-Semitic bone in their bodies.
I really don’t think Labour wants to be working any harder to turn the other two-thirds of those young voters off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the problem is that those on the hard right or hard left think that huge numbers of people are just as concerned about fringe issues as they are. When in fact this isn't the case.
By making a big deal out of issues such as 'purging', the left will just play directly into the hands of the right. We've already seen Insert and Pawl start agreeing on stuff about Labour, despite being completely opposed.
The right are always better at creating a rhetoric and turning people from an opposition towards them. What will happen is that the left will think they are going to force Labour to move further to the left for this election, when really they are going allow Tories to point at infighting, allow the rhetoric the parties are the same and push more undecideds to vote Tory again whilst they vote elsewhere.
It's just increasing the likelihood of the Tories getting more votes, when the number one objective should be to oust this incompetent government. Focusing on shifting the Overton window can come once that has happened. It's less likely to happen if we end up with a large Tory presence in the next government.
Ultimately, the Labour executive has to decide which voters it wants to go after, and I think we’re already getting quite a clear picture of the support it’s chasing.
But given where it’s positioning itself, I don’t think anyone will be able to complain if young voters in particular (as well as trade unionists and socialists) don’t turn out to vote, or instead elect to support the Greens, for example.
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
Did Starmer and Lammy share the stage with Loach after he was expelled?
Doubt
Also now you're saying Starmer should show he's not autocratic by overruling the selection committee??
Lol ok mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about overruling them, it's about stopping the factionalism his acolytes are pushing, and using to purge elements of the left from the party.
It's about creeping de-democratising of the party under his leadership, something he pledged not to do.
When even the guardian is starting to turn on labour over these issues its going to start taking a toll because it's being widely reported.
As rosso suggested, I wouldn't be surprised to see the left/young labour voters who are being taken for granted turning to the greens or lib Dems (pro Europe) as starmer forges further and further right culturally and economically to capture grey haired voters
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not even the hard left mate.
There are probably a lot of young progressives - social democrats and democratic socialists alike - who are being put off by this mad purge.
And on the purposeful blurring of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments, beyond the inherent false equivalence of the narrative, it isn’t a smart move electorally: there’s only a third of young Brits (18-24) who say they wouldn’t boycott Israeli goods right now. That speaks volumes about how young Brits see the actions of the Israeli state, and I would warrant that the vast, vast majority of those young people wouldn’t be very happy at anyone remotely suggesting that they have a single anti-Semitic bone in their bodies.
I really don’t think Labour wants to be working any harder to turn the other two-thirds of those young voters off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the problem is that those on the hard right or hard left think that huge numbers of people are just as concerned about fringe issues as they are. When in fact this isn't the case.
By making a big deal out of issues such as 'purging', the left will just play directly into the hands of the right. We've already seen Insert and Pawl start agreeing on stuff about Labour, despite being completely opposed.
The right are always better at creating a rhetoric and turning people from an opposition towards them. What will happen is that the left will think they are going to force Labour to move further to the left for this election, when really they are going allow Tories to point at infighting, allow the rhetoric the parties are the same and push more undecideds to vote Tory again whilst they vote elsewhere.
It's just increasing the likelihood of the Tories getting more votes, when the number one objective should be to oust this incompetent government. Focusing on shifting the Overton window can come once that has happened. It's less likely to happen if we end up with a large Tory presence in the next government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hardly think the fact myself and Pawl agree Starmer hasnt stuck to his leadership manifesto is an existential threat.
I'd say the far bigger issue for British politics is this "They are better than the Tories" way of thinking that allows them to push any policies or cultural changes they want so long as they stay at arms length, you could stick a playing card between Camerons tories and starmer culturally. Economically there's a bit more distance, but he's still happy pandering to big business.
It's a complacency that's going to use up valuable time in power, short of a manifesto promise for PR, theres no way I'll vote labour currently.
"even the guardian"
The paper of Owen Jones?
Take it you listened to their latest podcast today as well then
Thought they were pretty balanced, and look, some of the criticisms of Starmer are fair but a lot is overblown
Barring a catastrophe or coup, he will be in number 10 in 18months and we will really on then be able to judge his politics and ability to lead the country
Until then take everything with a pinch of general election campaign salt
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 20 minutes ago
"even the guardian"
The paper of Owen Jones?
Take it you listened to their latest podcast today as well then
Thought they were pretty balanced, and look, some of the criticisms of Starmer are fair but a lot is overblown
Barring a catastrophe or coup, he will be in number 10 in 18months and we will really on then be able to judge his politics and ability to lead the country
Until then take everything with a pinch of general election campaign salt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't listen to podcasts no, and just because owen Jones does opinion pieces, i dont thonk he owns the paper (nor did he write the article in question)
Well there certainly won't be a coup, he's consolidated power in the party by purging the "broad church" members, and preventing replacements with the same beliefs being elected.
Which is kind of the point. Being slightly better than the Tories isn't good enough, and I think on his current path he will alienate a lot of the left wingers. I don't forsee the landslide he should be getting, because silly little stunts like manipulating these nominations are going to drive too much of a wedge
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3g63DEn1R0lEZfIbEc6klH?si=QqCdt09SRsKOB-rYJ4GimA
Well recommend this episode, the last 15mins are on Starmer and it's a good debate
Not sure who owns the guardian but it's never been a cheerleader for Labour, it's not how the paper operates. I just think saying "even the guardian is turning on Starmer" or whatever is a bit off considering the hate it's printed towards Starmer from Owen Jones since 2020
Apologies for what follows, Insert...
Royal Mail: SHIIIIIT AS FACK JOKE
Posted a letter to the UK with a 3-5 day service with the Portuguese post office on 29 May, 5.15pm. The letter managed to make it from our small village, to the sorting office in our closest city, then up to Lisbon sorting, then scanned out in Lisbon airport, all by 9am the following morning. The Portuguese postal service managed to do its end of the deal in 16 hours.
Then....... FACK ALL!
Should have been delivered close to a week ago, and hasn't even been scanned in at Heathrow yet.
PrIvAtIsAtIoN dElIvErS bEtTeR sErViCe To CuStOmErS!
Fack right off it does. It's the biggest lie the British public have ever been sold, right up there with Brexit.
Fack any non-employed shareholders off and renationalise the facker, right now.
they're here dawg
https://twitter.com/NativeIndianDog/status/1666658731575181312
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Apologies for what follows, Insert...
Royal Mail: SHIIIIIT AS FACK JOKE
Posted a letter to the UK with a 3-5 day service with the Portuguese post office on 29 May, 5.15pm. The letter managed to make it from our small village, to the sorting office in our closest city, then up to Lisbon sorting, then scanned out in Lisbon airport, all by 9am the following morning. The Portuguese postal service managed to do its end of the deal in 16 hours.
Then....... FACK ALL!
Should have been delivered close to a week ago, and hasn't even been scanned in at Heathrow yet.
PrIvAtIsAtIoN dElIvErS bEtTeR sErViCe To CuStOmErS!
Fack right off it does. It's the biggest lie the British public have ever been sold, right up there with Brexit.
Fack any non-employed shareholders off and renationalise the facker, right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent an important document to Cyprus with RM which was advertised as 3-5 days.
It spent nearly 3 weeks in a sorting office 5 miles from where I live before it left these shores.
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
they're here dawg
https://twitter.com/NativeIndianDog/status/1666658731575181312
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pekerhead, peyote grows wild in the Nevada desert.
If any aliens are reading this thread, please take peks home with you
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted about a minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
It is now too late to save Arctic summer sea ice say climate scientists, even with significant cuts to emissions.
Previously, it was expected that the first ice-free summers would occur around 2050. The latest data shows that we can now expect them to occur from as soon as 2030.
The loss of Arctic sea ice will significantly impact the acceleration of the increase in atmospheric and oceanic temperatures as radiation which would previously have been reflected by the ice will instead be absorbed by the ocean.
“As scientists, we’ve been warning about the loss of Arctic summer sea ice for decades… People didn’t listen to our warnings.”
It’s beyond time we started listening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Too late. I can't go outdoors today without a mask. And we've been informed these fires from coast to coast and into the Northwest Territories could last for months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to ask you that
Are you badly affected? Will you have to be evacuated?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh and were they started by one of your Jamaican woodbines?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shh. Maybe. There's no evacuation of Montreal. Its an island with nearly 2 million people, and the fires are hundreds of miles away. The air quality is terrible though and anyone with respiratory problems has been told to stay indoors or wear a tight fitting mask. Been like that for a week or more. First it was Alberta fires blocking the skies with smoke from far west. But there are fires in eastern Quebec now and we're getting a very rare weather pattern where winds are from the east and just giving us the most hellishly beautiful sunsets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to hear you’re ok
Still a cant mind
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded
Glad you’re all good though SoQ ❤️ 🇨🇦
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted about a minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
It is now too late to save Arctic summer sea ice say climate scientists, even with significant cuts to emissions.
Previously, it was expected that the first ice-free summers would occur around 2050. The latest data shows that we can now expect them to occur from as soon as 2030.
The loss of Arctic sea ice will significantly impact the acceleration of the increase in atmospheric and oceanic temperatures as radiation which would previously have been reflected by the ice will instead be absorbed by the ocean.
“As scientists, we’ve been warning about the loss of Arctic summer sea ice for decades… People didn’t listen to our warnings.”
It’s beyond time we started listening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Too late. I can't go outdoors today without a mask. And we've been informed these fires from coast to coast and into the Northwest Territories could last for months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to ask you that
Are you badly affected? Will you have to be evacuated?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh and were they started by one of your Jamaican woodbines?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shh. Maybe. There's no evacuation of Montreal. Its an island with nearly 2 million people, and the fires are hundreds of miles away. The air quality is terrible though and anyone with respiratory problems has been told to stay indoors or wear a tight fitting mask. Been like that for a week or more. First it was Alberta fires blocking the skies with smoke from far west. But there are fires in eastern Quebec now and we're getting a very rare weather pattern where winds are from the east and just giving us the most hellishly beautiful sunsets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to hear you’re ok
Still a cant mind
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded
Glad you’re all good though SoQ ❤️ 🇨🇦
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing. Air quality back to normal here today. NYC not so good.
Sign in if you want to comment
Arguing w/strangers cause I'm lonely thread
Page 3468 of 4823
3469 | 3470 | 3471 | 3472 | 3473
posted on 8/6/23
Key question:
Is Pence more likely to take votes away from Trump or away from DeSantis?
Given his positioning, it looks like it could be the latter to me. Which will do nicely.
posted on 8/6/23
Caroline Lucas stepping down at the next GE now
posted on 8/6/23
comment by Jonathan Moore (U11781)
posted about an hour ago
Caroline Lucas stepping down at the next GE now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Big loss for the Greens
posted on 8/6/23
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 1 day, 17 hours ago
Nah only joking, of course there's more to it and important context
1. The notion that this is a Starmer decision is both giving him too much credit and also unfairly paints him as an autocrat. This was a decision made by a panel of both NEC and REC members.
2. Sharing the stage with Loach wasn't the sole problem but, given the issues Labour had with anti-Semitism and the image of the party as a result, doing so was stupid at best
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's no more to it, there's a reasonable article about it on the guardian today, and if you believe there's more to it, I do believe the hour long interview between Driscoll and the panel is available online.
1 member of the panel responds to Driscoll saying he was "Talking about the film's" responded with "You cannot seperate his views and work"
Which is interesting because both Starmer and Lammy have shared a stage with Loach and agreed with his views.
I do like that for years now we have had the painting of Corbyn as an anti-Semite because he "Failed to deal with anti-Semitism in the party" even had a ECHR investigation report that said he wasn't anti-Semitic, yet still he's accused of it.
Yet you seem to want to give starmer cover for his autocratic actions, by claiming it's others responsible. If he was against it, he would have stamped it out no? There's a continually building body of evidence against him, whereby at all elections since he took over starmer aligned candidates have been given advantages over others, and left wing labour members have often been prevented from standing at all.
Starmers supporters are seemingly heading in to the same sort of denial territory Boris Johnson's supporters used to inhabit.
posted on 8/6/23
Did Starmer and Lammy share the stage with Loach after he was expelled?
Doubt
Also now you're saying Starmer should show he's not autocratic by overruling the selection committee??
Lol ok mate
posted on 8/6/23
https://www.ft.com/content/e5d14398-e866-44b3-8ecb-4e6371167c6d
Could never have guessed Crispin Odey would be a sexpest
posted on 8/6/23
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
posted on 8/6/23
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0608/1388048-france-annecy/
Terrible
posted on 8/6/23
Hopefully no deaths or life changing injuries
posted on 8/6/23
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not even the hard left mate.
There are probably a lot of young progressives - social democrats and democratic socialists alike - who are being put off by this mad purge.
And on the purposeful blurring of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments, beyond the inherent false equivalence of the narrative, it isn’t a smart move electorally: there’s only a third of young Brits (18-24) who say they wouldn’t boycott Israeli goods right now. That speaks volumes about how young Brits see the actions of the Israeli state, and I would warrant that the vast, vast majority of those young people wouldn’t be very happy at anyone remotely suggesting that they have a single anti-Semitic bone in their bodies.
I really don’t think Labour wants to be working any harder to turn the other two-thirds of those young voters off.
posted on 8/6/23
Perversely his new green agenda is putting off the right of the party but largely supported by the left apart from obvious concerns from trade unions who by their nature can be small c conservative
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
You can't be a decent politician and please everybody but let's be honest Starmer has clearly pleasing more than enough to win the election
posted on 8/6/23
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not even the hard left mate.
There are probably a lot of young progressives - social democrats and democratic socialists alike - who are being put off by this mad purge.
And on the purposeful blurring of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments, beyond the inherent false equivalence of the narrative, it isn’t a smart move electorally: there’s only a third of young Brits (18-24) who say they wouldn’t boycott Israeli goods right now. That speaks volumes about how young Brits see the actions of the Israeli state, and I would warrant that the vast, vast majority of those young people wouldn’t be very happy at anyone remotely suggesting that they have a single anti-Semitic bone in their bodies.
I really don’t think Labour wants to be working any harder to turn the other two-thirds of those young voters off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the problem is that those on the hard right or hard left think that huge numbers of people are just as concerned about fringe issues as they are. When in fact this isn't the case.
By making a big deal out of issues such as 'purging', the left will just play directly into the hands of the right. We've already seen Insert and Pawl start agreeing on stuff about Labour, despite being completely opposed.
The right are always better at creating a rhetoric and turning people from an opposition towards them. What will happen is that the left will think they are going to force Labour to move further to the left for this election, when really they are going allow Tories to point at infighting, allow the rhetoric the parties are the same and push more undecideds to vote Tory again whilst they vote elsewhere.
It's just increasing the likelihood of the Tories getting more votes, when the number one objective should be to oust this incompetent government. Focusing on shifting the Overton window can come once that has happened. It's less likely to happen if we end up with a large Tory presence in the next government.
posted on 8/6/23
Ultimately, the Labour executive has to decide which voters it wants to go after, and I think we’re already getting quite a clear picture of the support it’s chasing.
But given where it’s positioning itself, I don’t think anyone will be able to complain if young voters in particular (as well as trade unionists and socialists) don’t turn out to vote, or instead elect to support the Greens, for example.
posted on 8/6/23
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
Did Starmer and Lammy share the stage with Loach after he was expelled?
Doubt
Also now you're saying Starmer should show he's not autocratic by overruling the selection committee??
Lol ok mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not about overruling them, it's about stopping the factionalism his acolytes are pushing, and using to purge elements of the left from the party.
It's about creeping de-democratising of the party under his leadership, something he pledged not to do.
When even the guardian is starting to turn on labour over these issues its going to start taking a toll because it's being widely reported.
As rosso suggested, I wouldn't be surprised to see the left/young labour voters who are being taken for granted turning to the greens or lib Dems (pro Europe) as starmer forges further and further right culturally and economically to capture grey haired voters
posted on 8/6/23
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
The hard left a probably the bigger threat to people who don't want the Tories to win the next election at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not even the hard left mate.
There are probably a lot of young progressives - social democrats and democratic socialists alike - who are being put off by this mad purge.
And on the purposeful blurring of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments, beyond the inherent false equivalence of the narrative, it isn’t a smart move electorally: there’s only a third of young Brits (18-24) who say they wouldn’t boycott Israeli goods right now. That speaks volumes about how young Brits see the actions of the Israeli state, and I would warrant that the vast, vast majority of those young people wouldn’t be very happy at anyone remotely suggesting that they have a single anti-Semitic bone in their bodies.
I really don’t think Labour wants to be working any harder to turn the other two-thirds of those young voters off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the problem is that those on the hard right or hard left think that huge numbers of people are just as concerned about fringe issues as they are. When in fact this isn't the case.
By making a big deal out of issues such as 'purging', the left will just play directly into the hands of the right. We've already seen Insert and Pawl start agreeing on stuff about Labour, despite being completely opposed.
The right are always better at creating a rhetoric and turning people from an opposition towards them. What will happen is that the left will think they are going to force Labour to move further to the left for this election, when really they are going allow Tories to point at infighting, allow the rhetoric the parties are the same and push more undecideds to vote Tory again whilst they vote elsewhere.
It's just increasing the likelihood of the Tories getting more votes, when the number one objective should be to oust this incompetent government. Focusing on shifting the Overton window can come once that has happened. It's less likely to happen if we end up with a large Tory presence in the next government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hardly think the fact myself and Pawl agree Starmer hasnt stuck to his leadership manifesto is an existential threat.
I'd say the far bigger issue for British politics is this "They are better than the Tories" way of thinking that allows them to push any policies or cultural changes they want so long as they stay at arms length, you could stick a playing card between Camerons tories and starmer culturally. Economically there's a bit more distance, but he's still happy pandering to big business.
It's a complacency that's going to use up valuable time in power, short of a manifesto promise for PR, theres no way I'll vote labour currently.
posted on 8/6/23
"even the guardian"
The paper of Owen Jones?
Take it you listened to their latest podcast today as well then
Thought they were pretty balanced, and look, some of the criticisms of Starmer are fair but a lot is overblown
Barring a catastrophe or coup, he will be in number 10 in 18months and we will really on then be able to judge his politics and ability to lead the country
Until then take everything with a pinch of general election campaign salt
posted on 8/6/23
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 20 minutes ago
"even the guardian"
The paper of Owen Jones?
Take it you listened to their latest podcast today as well then
Thought they were pretty balanced, and look, some of the criticisms of Starmer are fair but a lot is overblown
Barring a catastrophe or coup, he will be in number 10 in 18months and we will really on then be able to judge his politics and ability to lead the country
Until then take everything with a pinch of general election campaign salt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't listen to podcasts no, and just because owen Jones does opinion pieces, i dont thonk he owns the paper (nor did he write the article in question)
Well there certainly won't be a coup, he's consolidated power in the party by purging the "broad church" members, and preventing replacements with the same beliefs being elected.
Which is kind of the point. Being slightly better than the Tories isn't good enough, and I think on his current path he will alienate a lot of the left wingers. I don't forsee the landslide he should be getting, because silly little stunts like manipulating these nominations are going to drive too much of a wedge
posted on 8/6/23
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3g63DEn1R0lEZfIbEc6klH?si=QqCdt09SRsKOB-rYJ4GimA
Well recommend this episode, the last 15mins are on Starmer and it's a good debate
Not sure who owns the guardian but it's never been a cheerleader for Labour, it's not how the paper operates. I just think saying "even the guardian is turning on Starmer" or whatever is a bit off considering the hate it's printed towards Starmer from Owen Jones since 2020
posted on 8/6/23
Apologies for what follows, Insert...
Royal Mail: SHIIIIIT AS FACK JOKE
Posted a letter to the UK with a 3-5 day service with the Portuguese post office on 29 May, 5.15pm. The letter managed to make it from our small village, to the sorting office in our closest city, then up to Lisbon sorting, then scanned out in Lisbon airport, all by 9am the following morning. The Portuguese postal service managed to do its end of the deal in 16 hours.
Then....... FACK ALL!
Should have been delivered close to a week ago, and hasn't even been scanned in at Heathrow yet.
PrIvAtIsAtIoN dElIvErS bEtTeR sErViCe To CuStOmErS!
Fack right off it does. It's the biggest lie the British public have ever been sold, right up there with Brexit.
Fack any non-employed shareholders off and renationalise the facker, right now.
posted on 8/6/23
they're here dawg
https://twitter.com/NativeIndianDog/status/1666658731575181312
posted on 8/6/23
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Apologies for what follows, Insert...
Royal Mail: SHIIIIIT AS FACK JOKE
Posted a letter to the UK with a 3-5 day service with the Portuguese post office on 29 May, 5.15pm. The letter managed to make it from our small village, to the sorting office in our closest city, then up to Lisbon sorting, then scanned out in Lisbon airport, all by 9am the following morning. The Portuguese postal service managed to do its end of the deal in 16 hours.
Then....... FACK ALL!
Should have been delivered close to a week ago, and hasn't even been scanned in at Heathrow yet.
PrIvAtIsAtIoN dElIvErS bEtTeR sErViCe To CuStOmErS!
Fack right off it does. It's the biggest lie the British public have ever been sold, right up there with Brexit.
Fack any non-employed shareholders off and renationalise the facker, right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent an important document to Cyprus with RM which was advertised as 3-5 days.
It spent nearly 3 weeks in a sorting office 5 miles from where I live before it left these shores.
posted on 8/6/23
comment by peks - 1974 (U6618)
posted 2 minutes ago
they're here dawg
https://twitter.com/NativeIndianDog/status/1666658731575181312
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Pekerhead, peyote grows wild in the Nevada desert.
posted on 8/6/23
If any aliens are reading this thread, please take peks home with you
posted on 8/6/23
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted about a minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
It is now too late to save Arctic summer sea ice say climate scientists, even with significant cuts to emissions.
Previously, it was expected that the first ice-free summers would occur around 2050. The latest data shows that we can now expect them to occur from as soon as 2030.
The loss of Arctic sea ice will significantly impact the acceleration of the increase in atmospheric and oceanic temperatures as radiation which would previously have been reflected by the ice will instead be absorbed by the ocean.
“As scientists, we’ve been warning about the loss of Arctic summer sea ice for decades… People didn’t listen to our warnings.”
It’s beyond time we started listening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Too late. I can't go outdoors today without a mask. And we've been informed these fires from coast to coast and into the Northwest Territories could last for months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to ask you that
Are you badly affected? Will you have to be evacuated?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh and were they started by one of your Jamaican woodbines?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shh. Maybe. There's no evacuation of Montreal. Its an island with nearly 2 million people, and the fires are hundreds of miles away. The air quality is terrible though and anyone with respiratory problems has been told to stay indoors or wear a tight fitting mask. Been like that for a week or more. First it was Alberta fires blocking the skies with smoke from far west. But there are fires in eastern Quebec now and we're getting a very rare weather pattern where winds are from the east and just giving us the most hellishly beautiful sunsets.
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Good to hear you’re ok
Still a cant mind
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded
Glad you’re all good though SoQ ❤️ 🇨🇦
posted on 8/6/23
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 day, 2 hours ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted about a minute ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 19 minutes ago
It is now too late to save Arctic summer sea ice say climate scientists, even with significant cuts to emissions.
Previously, it was expected that the first ice-free summers would occur around 2050. The latest data shows that we can now expect them to occur from as soon as 2030.
The loss of Arctic sea ice will significantly impact the acceleration of the increase in atmospheric and oceanic temperatures as radiation which would previously have been reflected by the ice will instead be absorbed by the ocean.
“As scientists, we’ve been warning about the loss of Arctic summer sea ice for decades… People didn’t listen to our warnings.”
It’s beyond time we started listening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Too late. I can't go outdoors today without a mask. And we've been informed these fires from coast to coast and into the Northwest Territories could last for months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to ask you that
Are you badly affected? Will you have to be evacuated?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh and were they started by one of your Jamaican woodbines?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shh. Maybe. There's no evacuation of Montreal. Its an island with nearly 2 million people, and the fires are hundreds of miles away. The air quality is terrible though and anyone with respiratory problems has been told to stay indoors or wear a tight fitting mask. Been like that for a week or more. First it was Alberta fires blocking the skies with smoke from far west. But there are fires in eastern Quebec now and we're getting a very rare weather pattern where winds are from the east and just giving us the most hellishly beautiful sunsets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good to hear you’re ok
Still a cant mind
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seconded
Glad you’re all good though SoQ ❤️ 🇨🇦
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing. Air quality back to normal here today. NYC not so good.
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