After all that, I think we almost agree...?
"After all that, I think we almost agree...?"
===
Not really, I think Kozza is our best centre back, you don't.
I think he's head & shoulders above Squillaci & Djourou...but he's not tall enough to be head and shoulders over Mert
Kos is good but not as good as Verm and Mert.
Mertersacker is a defensive leader which is what we have been lacking. I was very happy at the Emirates last Saturday when I saw Mertersacker organising the defense and putting in a great shift on his debut.
Vermaelen and Mertesacker will be the first choice partnership!
Squillaci is actually the same height as Koscielny and Djourou is taller!
Koscielny >> Vermaelen >> Mertesacker >> Djourou
Chamakh my pitch up
====
Koscielny will definitely be a starter for us. He's our best CB
and Kos is definitely taller than Theo.
Koscielny will definitely be a starter for us. He's our best CB
----------------------------------------
Is the wrong statement, please try again.
"Is the wrong statement, please try again."
===
Why is it a wrong statement?
This is why Kossy is not rated by many people, Arsenal fans included:
Last Summer Wenger was urged to spend big money on a good old fashioned English gritty center back.
Being Wenger he didn't listen to the media or 'experts' and decided to spend a £8M on a foreign CB not capped for his country who was only proven in the lower tiers of France and to a lesser extent the highest tier.
Signing an unknown unproven foreign defender instead of signing a proven Englishman automatically gives the media and those who listen to the media ammunition to fire at Wenger.
Following on from this, on his debut he made meal of Joe Cole's red card on him (carried off on a stretcher only to come back on after half time and play the rest of the match). He then got sent off for a handball. This gives the media more ammo, that he is a cheat and is clumsy. On his return from suspension he was at fault for Blackburn's goal where he was muscled off the ball by El Hadj Diouf. More ammo - he is foreign so he is lightweight, Wenger should have bought English.
Then there was the nightmare partnership with Squillaci, at this stage I myself had turned on Kossy, thought he was worse than Silvestre, Cygan, etc. Made countless rash tackles, too many bookings, red cards, etc. Once negative fans feelings about a player leaks through to the media they will feel even more justified in their criticism and take it to a new level.
Since then Kossy has been criticised even to this day by the media, 'experts', fans of other teams and even Arsenal fans themselves.
Kossy is not perfect, he was never going to come in on his first season and become one of the best defenders in the league. Ok Vermaelen did it but he had a good partnership with Gallas that was settled for most of the season and even when Gallas got injured we had an experienced defender like Sol who he was able to work well with. Kossy didn't have any of this, he had Squillaci and only started looking the part when Djourou started playing alongside him.
Kossy's problem is he will always be remembered for the CC goal which he was at fault for (Szczesney's fault too but come on Kossy could have stopped it from happening so easily). Until Arsenal win something with him at the heart of our defence he will probably never get the recognition the likes of Rio, Vidic or even Vermaelen who never seems to come in for criticism despite being far from perfect himself, seem to get.
Per has looked good so far but TV and Kossy although have seldom played together look a really good partnership. We just need to make that happen again and things will be fine, IMO.
He will compete for a starting place with TV & Mert, which has to be a good thing. While TV is injured, he & Mert will be our CB partnership, which I'm quite happy with TBH. When all 3 are fit, he may be the 1st choice, but that will depend on how he plays.
That should say Summer 2010* not last Summer. I also forgot to mention that one thing that will always work against Kossy is his leadership skills, or lack of to be more precise. With Mertesacker or TV alongside him organising the defence he is a top player but when he has to carry the likes of Squillaci then he simply can't cut it. Kossy is not a leader which is what Arsenal are lacking but playing alongside TV or Per it shouldn't be a problem.
Because Kos, for all his qualities still has a lot to learn. Mertersacker is a more experienced and better defender than Kos. Szesney looked very comfortable having big Per in front of him last weekend and was constantly rolling the ball out to him because he could tell that he is excellent on the ball, does not panic, and has a very acurate pass on him.
Agree with pretty much everything you said Batmanu
"He will compete for a starting place with TV & Mert, which has to be a good thing. While TV is injured, he & Mert will be our CB partnership, which I'm quite happy with TBH. When all 3 are fit, he may be the 1st choice, but that will depend on how he plays."
===
You're getting there. Now admit that Koscielny is our best centre back and I will allow you to continue posting on this forum with my blessing
Kamran you're too kind.
Koscielny for President!
"Because Kos, for all his qualities still has a lot to learn. Mertersacker is a more experienced and better defender than Kos. Szesney looked very comfortable having big Per in front of him last weekend and was constantly rolling the ball out to him because he could tell that he is excellent on the ball, does not panic, and has a very acurate pass on him."
===
Mertesacker is not a better defender than Koscielny. Kozza is better on the ball, he reads the game better, his positioning is better, his tackling is definitely better etc. Mertesacker is better in the air, though.
Mertesacker is better in the air, though.
----------------------------------------------------
Which is where we have suffered painfully in recent years.
Koscielny for Minister of Sport...
Mertesacker is not a better defender than Koscielny. Kozza is better on the ball, he reads the game better, his positioning is better, his tackling is definitely better etc. Mertesacker is better in the air, though.
--------------------------------------------------
Nonsense! All of the things you just said Kos is better at you got the wrong way round.
Mertersacker for Prime Minister!
"Nonsense! All of the things you just said Kos is better at you got the wrong way round. "
===
Lol, are you being serious? I can't take you seriously if you are. Sorry.
Kamran for Prime Minister
I would say Kossy is better at reading the game and is definitely better at tackling. On the ball it's tough because Kossy is technically very good, has good vision and pretty much can make passes Mertesacker cannot. The problem with this is that because some of those passes are so adventurous they often end up with opposition getting the ball back. From what I've seen of Per he is very composed on the ball and won't give it away, and can keep possession very well with safe passes, etc. The sort of thing Denilson was slaughtered for!
Batmanu, who do you think our best centre backs are, in order from 1 - 4?
I'd go for this:
1. Koscielny
2. Vermaelen
3. Mertesacker
4. Djourou
1. Vermaelen
2. Mertesacker
3. Koscielny
4. Djourou
5. Pat Rice
6. Squillaci
I would say Kossy is better at reading the game and is definitely better at tackling. On the ball it's tough because Kossy is technically very good, has good vision and pretty much can make passes Mertesacker cannot. The problem with this is that because some of those passes are so adventurous they often end up with opposition getting the ball back. From what I've seen of Per he is very composed on the ball and won't give it away, and can keep possession very well with safe passes, etc. The sort of thing Denilson was slaughtered for!
-------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with most of this. To be fair though I think it is too early to say that Kos is better at tackling. They are both very good tacklers!
The last section of your paragraph is spot on
"I would say Kossy is better at reading the game"
I strongly disagree with this though!
Sign in if you want to comment
Laurent koscielny has always been quality
Page 2 of 3
posted on 16/9/11
After all that, I think we almost agree...?
posted on 16/9/11
"After all that, I think we almost agree...?"
===
Not really, I think Kozza is our best centre back, you don't.
posted on 16/9/11
I think he's head & shoulders above Squillaci & Djourou...but he's not tall enough to be head and shoulders over Mert
posted on 16/9/11
Kos is good but not as good as Verm and Mert.
Mertersacker is a defensive leader which is what we have been lacking. I was very happy at the Emirates last Saturday when I saw Mertersacker organising the defense and putting in a great shift on his debut.
Vermaelen and Mertesacker will be the first choice partnership!
posted on 16/9/11
Squillaci is actually the same height as Koscielny and Djourou is taller!
Koscielny >> Vermaelen >> Mertesacker >> Djourou
posted on 16/9/11
Chamakh my pitch up
====
Koscielny will definitely be a starter for us. He's our best CB
posted on 16/9/11
and Kos is definitely taller than Theo.
posted on 16/9/11
Koscielny will definitely be a starter for us. He's our best CB
----------------------------------------
Is the wrong statement, please try again.
posted on 16/9/11
"Is the wrong statement, please try again."
===
Why is it a wrong statement?
posted on 16/9/11
This is why Kossy is not rated by many people, Arsenal fans included:
Last Summer Wenger was urged to spend big money on a good old fashioned English gritty center back.
Being Wenger he didn't listen to the media or 'experts' and decided to spend a £8M on a foreign CB not capped for his country who was only proven in the lower tiers of France and to a lesser extent the highest tier.
Signing an unknown unproven foreign defender instead of signing a proven Englishman automatically gives the media and those who listen to the media ammunition to fire at Wenger.
Following on from this, on his debut he made meal of Joe Cole's red card on him (carried off on a stretcher only to come back on after half time and play the rest of the match). He then got sent off for a handball. This gives the media more ammo, that he is a cheat and is clumsy. On his return from suspension he was at fault for Blackburn's goal where he was muscled off the ball by El Hadj Diouf. More ammo - he is foreign so he is lightweight, Wenger should have bought English.
Then there was the nightmare partnership with Squillaci, at this stage I myself had turned on Kossy, thought he was worse than Silvestre, Cygan, etc. Made countless rash tackles, too many bookings, red cards, etc. Once negative fans feelings about a player leaks through to the media they will feel even more justified in their criticism and take it to a new level.
Since then Kossy has been criticised even to this day by the media, 'experts', fans of other teams and even Arsenal fans themselves.
Kossy is not perfect, he was never going to come in on his first season and become one of the best defenders in the league. Ok Vermaelen did it but he had a good partnership with Gallas that was settled for most of the season and even when Gallas got injured we had an experienced defender like Sol who he was able to work well with. Kossy didn't have any of this, he had Squillaci and only started looking the part when Djourou started playing alongside him.
Kossy's problem is he will always be remembered for the CC goal which he was at fault for (Szczesney's fault too but come on Kossy could have stopped it from happening so easily). Until Arsenal win something with him at the heart of our defence he will probably never get the recognition the likes of Rio, Vidic or even Vermaelen who never seems to come in for criticism despite being far from perfect himself, seem to get.
Per has looked good so far but TV and Kossy although have seldom played together look a really good partnership. We just need to make that happen again and things will be fine, IMO.
posted on 16/9/11
He will compete for a starting place with TV & Mert, which has to be a good thing. While TV is injured, he & Mert will be our CB partnership, which I'm quite happy with TBH. When all 3 are fit, he may be the 1st choice, but that will depend on how he plays.
posted on 16/9/11
That should say Summer 2010* not last Summer. I also forgot to mention that one thing that will always work against Kossy is his leadership skills, or lack of to be more precise. With Mertesacker or TV alongside him organising the defence he is a top player but when he has to carry the likes of Squillaci then he simply can't cut it. Kossy is not a leader which is what Arsenal are lacking but playing alongside TV or Per it shouldn't be a problem.
posted on 16/9/11
Because Kos, for all his qualities still has a lot to learn. Mertersacker is a more experienced and better defender than Kos. Szesney looked very comfortable having big Per in front of him last weekend and was constantly rolling the ball out to him because he could tell that he is excellent on the ball, does not panic, and has a very acurate pass on him.
posted on 16/9/11
Agree with pretty much everything you said Batmanu
"He will compete for a starting place with TV & Mert, which has to be a good thing. While TV is injured, he & Mert will be our CB partnership, which I'm quite happy with TBH. When all 3 are fit, he may be the 1st choice, but that will depend on how he plays."
===
You're getting there. Now admit that Koscielny is our best centre back and I will allow you to continue posting on this forum with my blessing
posted on 16/9/11
Kamran you're too kind.
Koscielny for President!
posted on 16/9/11
"Because Kos, for all his qualities still has a lot to learn. Mertersacker is a more experienced and better defender than Kos. Szesney looked very comfortable having big Per in front of him last weekend and was constantly rolling the ball out to him because he could tell that he is excellent on the ball, does not panic, and has a very acurate pass on him."
===
Mertesacker is not a better defender than Koscielny. Kozza is better on the ball, he reads the game better, his positioning is better, his tackling is definitely better etc. Mertesacker is better in the air, though.
posted on 16/9/11
Mertesacker is better in the air, though.
----------------------------------------------------
Which is where we have suffered painfully in recent years.
Koscielny for Minister of Sport...
posted on 16/9/11
Mertesacker is not a better defender than Koscielny. Kozza is better on the ball, he reads the game better, his positioning is better, his tackling is definitely better etc. Mertesacker is better in the air, though.
--------------------------------------------------
Nonsense! All of the things you just said Kos is better at you got the wrong way round.
posted on 16/9/11
Mertersacker for Prime Minister!
posted on 16/9/11
"Nonsense! All of the things you just said Kos is better at you got the wrong way round. "
===
Lol, are you being serious? I can't take you seriously if you are. Sorry.
Kamran for Prime Minister
posted on 16/9/11
I would say Kossy is better at reading the game and is definitely better at tackling. On the ball it's tough because Kossy is technically very good, has good vision and pretty much can make passes Mertesacker cannot. The problem with this is that because some of those passes are so adventurous they often end up with opposition getting the ball back. From what I've seen of Per he is very composed on the ball and won't give it away, and can keep possession very well with safe passes, etc. The sort of thing Denilson was slaughtered for!
posted on 16/9/11
Batmanu, who do you think our best centre backs are, in order from 1 - 4?
I'd go for this:
1. Koscielny
2. Vermaelen
3. Mertesacker
4. Djourou
posted on 16/9/11
1. Vermaelen
2. Mertesacker
3. Koscielny
4. Djourou
5. Pat Rice
6. Squillaci
posted on 16/9/11
I would say Kossy is better at reading the game and is definitely better at tackling. On the ball it's tough because Kossy is technically very good, has good vision and pretty much can make passes Mertesacker cannot. The problem with this is that because some of those passes are so adventurous they often end up with opposition getting the ball back. From what I've seen of Per he is very composed on the ball and won't give it away, and can keep possession very well with safe passes, etc. The sort of thing Denilson was slaughtered for!
-------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with most of this. To be fair though I think it is too early to say that Kos is better at tackling. They are both very good tacklers!
The last section of your paragraph is spot on
posted on 16/9/11
"I would say Kossy is better at reading the game"
I strongly disagree with this though!
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