I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+.
----------------------------------
It's not just the price tag. Fact that Wenger considers Xhaka and Mustafi as first team players and they're still atrocious plays a big part. Under normal circumstances a manager would realise he's made a big mistake and cut his losses. But Wenger is determined to continually play those two players until he's proven right about them.
And would Anelka be considered a success even though he was only briefly at Arsenal but we made a humongous profit on him?
----------------------------------------
Of course Anelka is a success. He played an integral part in the league cup double.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 37 minutes ago
Fact we might have broke even on him is irrelevant.
-----------------------------------
It is relevant because it is a reflection of the player's worth in the market and not just a subjective dislike of the player by the fanbase.
So many players have come through Arsenal but because they didn't cost much, they aren't counted as flops. I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+. If they had been £5m-£10m Arsenal could have easily moved them on and they would be part of the list that people didn't even think played for Arsenal. Remember Stepenovs? or Cygan or Kaba Diawara or how abt Park or Inamoto?
And would Anelka be considered a success even though he was only briefly at Arsenal but we made a humongous profit on him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf... Anelka?! Jeez, J99... take a breather, mate.
And the fact that Stepenovs cost nothing makes him more of a punt, rather than an investment, so can't really count as a flop.
The fact that his signing gave Ray Parlour one of the funniest Arsenal related stories I've heard from an ex-player, almost tips him into being a mild success.
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 37 minutes ago
Fact we might have broke even on him is irrelevant.
-----------------------------------
It is relevant because it is a reflection of the player's worth in the market and not just a subjective dislike of the player by the fanbase.
So many players have come through Arsenal but because they didn't cost much, they aren't counted as flops. I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+. If they had been £5m-£10m Arsenal could have easily moved them on and they would be part of the list that people didn't even think played for Arsenal. Remember Stepenovs? or Cygan or Kaba Diawara or how abt Park or Inamoto?
And would Anelka be considered a success even though he was only briefly at Arsenal but we made a humongous profit on him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf... Anelka?! Jeez, J99... take a breather, mate.
And the fact that Stepenovs cost nothing makes him more of a punt, rather than an investment, so can't really count as a flop.
The fact that his signing gave Ray Parlour one of the funniest Arsenal related stories I've heard from an ex-player, almost tips him into being a mild success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you doing here Igors?
Is Mustafi REALLY that bad?
comment by Serial WUManiser™© - Hate Wenger, Love Bala Town (U1410)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+.
----------------------------------
It's not just the price tag. Fact that Wenger considers Xhaka and Mustafi as first team players and they're still atrocious plays a big part. Under normal circumstances a manager would realise he's made a big mistake and cut his losses. But Wenger is determined to continually play those two players until he's proven right about them.
--------------------------------------
But thats the point. Would Wenger make the effort if those players hadn't cost those ridiculous fees? Would he keep on playing them if there wasn't fee pressure?
This is why I forgive Wenger from 2007-2012. During this period he didn't have money to spend and so had to persevere with rubbish. Be it Eboue (who I compare a lot to Bellerin) before he bought Sagna to Denilson.
After 2012 Wenger's transfer policy has been atrocious. Be it not getting recognized players to perform, like Ozil or not developing players like Welbeck or sticking with players who didn't fit the Arsenal style of play like Giroud.
All managers have their share of flops. It comes with the business. But when you fail more than you succeed with talent spotting shows there is a deep problem with the management and coaching.
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Is Mustafi REALLY that bad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No hes not but he is a player who needs the team around him to be doing their job so he can do his. He cant cope with trying to recover for others not doing their job.
You also need to look at his partner, Kos. Kos is a great defender at what he does well, attacking the ball. But the problem is that is just about all he does and his partner needs to fit in with that. Vermaelen was a good defender who would attack the ball or sit back as needed. The problem was he couldnt adapt to Kos always attacking the ball and it led to mistakes. Per next was a great partner for Kos as he tens to sit back more and let his partner attack the ball, then he mops up behind them. Mustafi is probably between the two at the moment but seems to struggle to know what to do and whether Kos will attack the ball. Its all about getting the right balance and there arent that many BFG's in the world.
Now, if we could replace Xhaka with a defensive monster who can pass a bit (literally just a bit) we will be in a far better place as a team. Wenger playing him every single facking game is in my opinion Wengers biggest mistake and the reason we are in such a bad position (not only his play but also his affect on the players around him), even bigger than keeping Giroud as our main striker for 5 years during which time he averaged 14 league goals a season.
comment by WOKO - thats Wenger out, Kronke out (U16927)
posted 6 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Is Mustafi REALLY that bad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No hes not but he is a player who needs the team around him to be doing their job so he can do his. He cant cope with trying to recover for others not doing their job.
You also need to look at his partner, Kos. Kos is a great defender at what he does well, attacking the ball. But the problem is that is just about all he does and his partner needs to fit in with that. Vermaelen was a good defender who would attack the ball or sit back as needed. The problem was he couldnt adapt to Kos always attacking the ball and it led to mistakes. Per next was a great partner for Kos as he tens to sit back more and let his partner attack the ball, then he mops up behind them. Mustafi is probably between the two at the moment but seems to struggle to know what to do and whether Kos will attack the ball. Its all about getting the right balance and there arent that many BFG's in the world.
Now, if we could replace Xhaka with a defensive monster who can pass a bit (literally just a bit) we will be in a far better place as a team. Wenger playing him every single facking game is in my opinion Wengers biggest mistake and the reason we are in such a bad position (not only his play but also his affect on the players around him), even bigger than keeping Giroud as our main striker for 5 years during which time he averaged 14 league goals a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was thinking that it might be the system that exposes the defense more than they should. Much like Liverpool who are not even playing with a defensive midfielder. But it's maybe like you say: having the right player to count on. perhaps Wenger missed the boat with vvd sailing away, he would have been perfect.
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Top 5 most expensive Wenger flops
Page 4 of 4
posted on 7/3/18
I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+.
----------------------------------
It's not just the price tag. Fact that Wenger considers Xhaka and Mustafi as first team players and they're still atrocious plays a big part. Under normal circumstances a manager would realise he's made a big mistake and cut his losses. But Wenger is determined to continually play those two players until he's proven right about them.
And would Anelka be considered a success even though he was only briefly at Arsenal but we made a humongous profit on him?
----------------------------------------
Of course Anelka is a success. He played an integral part in the league cup double.
posted on 7/3/18
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 37 minutes ago
Fact we might have broke even on him is irrelevant.
-----------------------------------
It is relevant because it is a reflection of the player's worth in the market and not just a subjective dislike of the player by the fanbase.
So many players have come through Arsenal but because they didn't cost much, they aren't counted as flops. I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+. If they had been £5m-£10m Arsenal could have easily moved them on and they would be part of the list that people didn't even think played for Arsenal. Remember Stepenovs? or Cygan or Kaba Diawara or how abt Park or Inamoto?
And would Anelka be considered a success even though he was only briefly at Arsenal but we made a humongous profit on him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf... Anelka?! Jeez, J99... take a breather, mate.
And the fact that Stepenovs cost nothing makes him more of a punt, rather than an investment, so can't really count as a flop.
The fact that his signing gave Ray Parlour one of the funniest Arsenal related stories I've heard from an ex-player, almost tips him into being a mild success.
posted on 7/3/18
comment by Lexington 125.2 (U8879)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 37 minutes ago
Fact we might have broke even on him is irrelevant.
-----------------------------------
It is relevant because it is a reflection of the player's worth in the market and not just a subjective dislike of the player by the fanbase.
So many players have come through Arsenal but because they didn't cost much, they aren't counted as flops. I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+. If they had been £5m-£10m Arsenal could have easily moved them on and they would be part of the list that people didn't even think played for Arsenal. Remember Stepenovs? or Cygan or Kaba Diawara or how abt Park or Inamoto?
And would Anelka be considered a success even though he was only briefly at Arsenal but we made a humongous profit on him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf... Anelka?! Jeez, J99... take a breather, mate.
And the fact that Stepenovs cost nothing makes him more of a punt, rather than an investment, so can't really count as a flop.
The fact that his signing gave Ray Parlour one of the funniest Arsenal related stories I've heard from an ex-player, almost tips him into being a mild success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What you doing here Igors?
posted on 7/3/18
posted on 7/3/18
Is Mustafi REALLY that bad?
posted on 7/3/18
comment by Serial WUManiser™© - Hate Wenger, Love Bala Town (U1410)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
I mean who would care abt Xhaka, Mustafi etc. if they didn't cost £35m+.
----------------------------------
It's not just the price tag. Fact that Wenger considers Xhaka and Mustafi as first team players and they're still atrocious plays a big part. Under normal circumstances a manager would realise he's made a big mistake and cut his losses. But Wenger is determined to continually play those two players until he's proven right about them.
--------------------------------------
But thats the point. Would Wenger make the effort if those players hadn't cost those ridiculous fees? Would he keep on playing them if there wasn't fee pressure?
This is why I forgive Wenger from 2007-2012. During this period he didn't have money to spend and so had to persevere with rubbish. Be it Eboue (who I compare a lot to Bellerin) before he bought Sagna to Denilson.
After 2012 Wenger's transfer policy has been atrocious. Be it not getting recognized players to perform, like Ozil or not developing players like Welbeck or sticking with players who didn't fit the Arsenal style of play like Giroud.
All managers have their share of flops. It comes with the business. But when you fail more than you succeed with talent spotting shows there is a deep problem with the management and coaching.
posted on 7/3/18
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Is Mustafi REALLY that bad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No hes not but he is a player who needs the team around him to be doing their job so he can do his. He cant cope with trying to recover for others not doing their job.
You also need to look at his partner, Kos. Kos is a great defender at what he does well, attacking the ball. But the problem is that is just about all he does and his partner needs to fit in with that. Vermaelen was a good defender who would attack the ball or sit back as needed. The problem was he couldnt adapt to Kos always attacking the ball and it led to mistakes. Per next was a great partner for Kos as he tens to sit back more and let his partner attack the ball, then he mops up behind them. Mustafi is probably between the two at the moment but seems to struggle to know what to do and whether Kos will attack the ball. Its all about getting the right balance and there arent that many BFG's in the world.
Now, if we could replace Xhaka with a defensive monster who can pass a bit (literally just a bit) we will be in a far better place as a team. Wenger playing him every single facking game is in my opinion Wengers biggest mistake and the reason we are in such a bad position (not only his play but also his affect on the players around him), even bigger than keeping Giroud as our main striker for 5 years during which time he averaged 14 league goals a season.
posted on 7/3/18
comment by WOKO - thats Wenger out, Kronke out (U16927)
posted 6 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Marksmanship (U21765)
posted 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Is Mustafi REALLY that bad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No hes not but he is a player who needs the team around him to be doing their job so he can do his. He cant cope with trying to recover for others not doing their job.
You also need to look at his partner, Kos. Kos is a great defender at what he does well, attacking the ball. But the problem is that is just about all he does and his partner needs to fit in with that. Vermaelen was a good defender who would attack the ball or sit back as needed. The problem was he couldnt adapt to Kos always attacking the ball and it led to mistakes. Per next was a great partner for Kos as he tens to sit back more and let his partner attack the ball, then he mops up behind them. Mustafi is probably between the two at the moment but seems to struggle to know what to do and whether Kos will attack the ball. Its all about getting the right balance and there arent that many BFG's in the world.
Now, if we could replace Xhaka with a defensive monster who can pass a bit (literally just a bit) we will be in a far better place as a team. Wenger playing him every single facking game is in my opinion Wengers biggest mistake and the reason we are in such a bad position (not only his play but also his affect on the players around him), even bigger than keeping Giroud as our main striker for 5 years during which time he averaged 14 league goals a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was thinking that it might be the system that exposes the defense more than they should. Much like Liverpool who are not even playing with a defensive midfielder. But it's maybe like you say: having the right player to count on. perhaps Wenger missed the boat with vvd sailing away, he would have been perfect.
Page 4 of 4