Yeah, I know. Like most people, I thought this was just a joke or something but upon doing further research, I actually found out that there are advocay groups who are trying to lobby the powers that be to legally recognise the status of age fluid people.
If this were to come to fruition, how would it affect sports? Would you have a problem with a 30 year old man that identifies as a 16 year old age fluid boy being in the same dressing room as your son?
Is it possible for one to be both age & gender fluid (e.g 30 year old man that identifies as a 16 year old girl being in the same locker room as a bunch of teenage netball players).
Are guys such as meself just failing to keep up with the times? Are we nothing more than just knuckle dragging neanderthals who are stuck in our ways or are things really getting slightly out of control?
I don't know where I stand with this one to be honest because I am a product of an interracial relationship & back in the day, it was interracial relationships were illegal in Apartheid South Africa & were frowned upon by our fore bearers. Society has since changed & interracial relationships are not only legal, but socially acceptable too.
Are those that are against gender & age fluidity really no different to those that opposed interracial relationships all those years back? Can't help but wonder.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Naw.. Just naw
Dont try to justify what is clearly a mental health person.
You cant just claim to be something because you want to and that must be accepted as truth. Thats the equivalent of going out, murdering someone and claiming you 'identify' as innocent. Its absolutely insane.
These people need a serious slap and to stop looking for attention. You are the age you are, you are the gender you are.
The problem we have is most things have been done in life. So people are looking for extreme ways to get new 'highs and kinks' (And by this i mean something new) without having to work hard for it ala space exploration or technological advancements, etc..
Dont give these people air time. Get them fast tracked to the psych ward and get them treatment
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 36 seconds ago
https://go.ted.com/CXoq
Check out this TED talk by Beth who has been researching telomere shortening associated with social interactions, stress and immortality.
She sums it up pretty well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe one can eventually shorten telomeres and prolong life. But to respond to the OP - I just can’t get my head around age fluidity. It’s not really to do with identity. Age = the number of years since your birth. You can be “a young 60”, or “a mature 21”, but you’re still 60 or 21. Age might even be the one thing you literally cannot change. Slowing or even reversing the ageing process doesn’t change that. It’s a number.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
At present, we cannot change the aging process, but in time we will be able to, so I don't believe you're right in asserting that this is one thing that literally cannot change.
-------------------
Age is something we cannot change
We can stop decaying of the human body, we cannot stop aging
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, but telomere shortening is happening every second of the day. We need to counter that shortening process to stave off apoptosis.
In essence, you could stop aging entirely. It's quite remarkable.
The number of years since birth would continue to accrue, that's true, so there is some valid issue with the "fluidity" concept in the OP.
At present, we cannot change the aging process, but in time we will be able to, so I don't believe you're right in asserting that this is one thing that literally cannot change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m saying that we will be able to stop the process but age is a number - you ARE 10, or 30, or 60, if you that many years have passed since your birth. Your physical condition is secondary.
Now I’ve got my telomeres mixed up - longer ones mean longer life, don’t they?
comment by The artist formerly known as Joe (U15888)
posted 4 minutes ago
At present, we cannot change the aging process, but in time we will be able to, so I don't believe you're right in asserting that this is one thing that literally cannot change.
-------------------
Age is something we cannot change
We can stop decaying of the human body, we cannot stop aging
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But couldn't one make the same argument about gender? How can one change one's gender though?
See one of my issues is when proponents of gender neutrality/fluidity try to turn biology into bigotry.
If a straight person were to argue against gender neutrality/fluidity using biology as the central point of the argument, one would be called a bigot.
As much as I support & right to exist, I have a problem with them though trying to twist scientific & biological facts to suit their argument. That I have a problem with.
But couldn't one make the same argument about gender? How can one change one's gender though?
———————
I don’t think ageing and gender are the same in that way. I’m saying that age is purely a number but you may be able to alter the effects that number has on the body. The number can’t change.
I’m no biologist, but there are people born with both male and female characteristics, and some who feel in their bones that they can’t neatly fit into either category.
Without time travel or redefining what numbers mean, you cannot change your age even if you change your body’s signs of age.
On an interesting note it may well make sense (once the tech exists to at least roughly measure it) to have two ages.
Your actual age and another age based on your body and mind health.
By that I mean the age your body and mind feel and work at. According to studies people can vary massively, for instance a 50 year old being 40 and another being 60.
It means the "60" year old is at a massive physical and mental disadvantage - in a truly fair world should they be retiring at the same time or expected to work at the same level physically? It's an interesting thought for the future.
Question still stands: Would you be comfortable with an age fluid or gender fluid person being in the same dressing room of your netball or football playing teenage daughter? By you not being comfortable with this (assuming that you are), would that make you a bigot or is one completely justified in raising an objection? Tough one to tackle.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Gender is different to what šéx you are. People can physically be a man, but mentally feel they are a woman. That’s been a thing forever, it’s not new. Some people legitimately have those issues. I’m sure it’s got more popular as it’s almost become a thing to say to stand out, bet most of the young people who say it won’t feel the same when they leave school.
I think with gender people don’t like how if you’re a man for example, society puts pressure on you that you’re meant to behave in a certain way, and feel or not feel certain emotions etc. So if you’re a person that doesn’t feel comfortable behaving in that way, you get all these people saying they don’t identify as a man. For me they shouldn’t have to believe they’re a different gender to feel comfortable. If you don’t feel you fit in with the stereotypical man image, then you don’t have to, who cares how you behave. You can still be a man, shame all these people feel they have to come up with a new label.its a mix of factors, legit biological reasons, or a mix of attention seeking, and reflective of how much pressure our society puts on people to fit in with their respective gender
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 11 minutes ago
Scruttocks, you've raised some very good points. It's an interesting (currently) theoretical discussion.
The special relativity twin paradox theory comes into play quite nicely here and may help rationalise the concept of aging and the abstract concept of age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it's very interesting and possibly going to be a problem for people who "older" than they actually are.
With the way the world is going atm someone who is a 50 year old in a 70 year olds body and then has that measured medically will likely be discarded as an option for employment yet won't be given an early retirement.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The anti-aging possibility really makes me nervous. The world will be completely overpopulated within a few generations, unless we stop having children. Then what? What is the point? Not a world that I would want to be a part of.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
So Adam Johnson and his like will be out within a week. Slip the girls a few grand to get them to identify as a 19 year old, and all of a sudden it's legal. There would be mayhem if that is allowed to happen. I'll be identifying as 67 and claiming my pension immediately.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
But couldn't one make the same argument about gender? How can one change one's gender though?
———————
I don’t think ageing and gender are the same in that way. I’m saying that age is purely a number but you may be able to alter the effects that number has on the body. The number can’t change.
I’m no biologist, but there are people born with both male and female characteristics, and some who feel in their bones that they can’t neatly fit into either category.
Without time travel or redefining what numbers mean, you cannot change your age even if you change your body’s signs of age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chromosomal abnormalities lead to the very rare cares of hermaphroditism. They are not however some split 50/50 male/female hybrid.
Sign in if you want to comment
So apparently age fluidity...
Page 1 of 4
posted on 27/11/18
Yeah, I know. Like most people, I thought this was just a joke or something but upon doing further research, I actually found out that there are advocay groups who are trying to lobby the powers that be to legally recognise the status of age fluid people.
If this were to come to fruition, how would it affect sports? Would you have a problem with a 30 year old man that identifies as a 16 year old age fluid boy being in the same dressing room as your son?
Is it possible for one to be both age & gender fluid (e.g 30 year old man that identifies as a 16 year old girl being in the same locker room as a bunch of teenage netball players).
Are guys such as meself just failing to keep up with the times? Are we nothing more than just knuckle dragging neanderthals who are stuck in our ways or are things really getting slightly out of control?
I don't know where I stand with this one to be honest because I am a product of an interracial relationship & back in the day, it was interracial relationships were illegal in Apartheid South Africa & were frowned upon by our fore bearers. Society has since changed & interracial relationships are not only legal, but socially acceptable too.
Are those that are against gender & age fluidity really no different to those that opposed interracial relationships all those years back? Can't help but wonder.
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
Naw.. Just naw
Dont try to justify what is clearly a mental health person.
You cant just claim to be something because you want to and that must be accepted as truth. Thats the equivalent of going out, murdering someone and claiming you 'identify' as innocent. Its absolutely insane.
These people need a serious slap and to stop looking for attention. You are the age you are, you are the gender you are.
The problem we have is most things have been done in life. So people are looking for extreme ways to get new 'highs and kinks' (And by this i mean something new) without having to work hard for it ala space exploration or technological advancements, etc..
Dont give these people air time. Get them fast tracked to the psych ward and get them treatment
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 36 seconds ago
https://go.ted.com/CXoq
Check out this TED talk by Beth who has been researching telomere shortening associated with social interactions, stress and immortality.
She sums it up pretty well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe one can eventually shorten telomeres and prolong life. But to respond to the OP - I just can’t get my head around age fluidity. It’s not really to do with identity. Age = the number of years since your birth. You can be “a young 60”, or “a mature 21”, but you’re still 60 or 21. Age might even be the one thing you literally cannot change. Slowing or even reversing the ageing process doesn’t change that. It’s a number.
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
At present, we cannot change the aging process, but in time we will be able to, so I don't believe you're right in asserting that this is one thing that literally cannot change.
-------------------
Age is something we cannot change
We can stop decaying of the human body, we cannot stop aging
posted on 27/11/18
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, but telomere shortening is happening every second of the day. We need to counter that shortening process to stave off apoptosis.
In essence, you could stop aging entirely. It's quite remarkable.
The number of years since birth would continue to accrue, that's true, so there is some valid issue with the "fluidity" concept in the OP.
At present, we cannot change the aging process, but in time we will be able to, so I don't believe you're right in asserting that this is one thing that literally cannot change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m saying that we will be able to stop the process but age is a number - you ARE 10, or 30, or 60, if you that many years have passed since your birth. Your physical condition is secondary.
Now I’ve got my telomeres mixed up - longer ones mean longer life, don’t they?
posted on 27/11/18
No, it isn't.
posted on 27/11/18
comment by The artist formerly known as Joe (U15888)
posted 4 minutes ago
At present, we cannot change the aging process, but in time we will be able to, so I don't believe you're right in asserting that this is one thing that literally cannot change.
-------------------
Age is something we cannot change
We can stop decaying of the human body, we cannot stop aging
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But couldn't one make the same argument about gender? How can one change one's gender though?
See one of my issues is when proponents of gender neutrality/fluidity try to turn biology into bigotry.
If a straight person were to argue against gender neutrality/fluidity using biology as the central point of the argument, one would be called a bigot.
As much as I support & right to exist, I have a problem with them though trying to twist scientific & biological facts to suit their argument. That I have a problem with.
posted on 27/11/18
But couldn't one make the same argument about gender? How can one change one's gender though?
———————
I don’t think ageing and gender are the same in that way. I’m saying that age is purely a number but you may be able to alter the effects that number has on the body. The number can’t change.
I’m no biologist, but there are people born with both male and female characteristics, and some who feel in their bones that they can’t neatly fit into either category.
Without time travel or redefining what numbers mean, you cannot change your age even if you change your body’s signs of age.
posted on 27/11/18
On an interesting note it may well make sense (once the tech exists to at least roughly measure it) to have two ages.
Your actual age and another age based on your body and mind health.
By that I mean the age your body and mind feel and work at. According to studies people can vary massively, for instance a 50 year old being 40 and another being 60.
It means the "60" year old is at a massive physical and mental disadvantage - in a truly fair world should they be retiring at the same time or expected to work at the same level physically? It's an interesting thought for the future.
posted on 27/11/18
Question still stands: Would you be comfortable with an age fluid or gender fluid person being in the same dressing room of your netball or football playing teenage daughter? By you not being comfortable with this (assuming that you are), would that make you a bigot or is one completely justified in raising an objection? Tough one to tackle.
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
Gender is different to what šéx you are. People can physically be a man, but mentally feel they are a woman. That’s been a thing forever, it’s not new. Some people legitimately have those issues. I’m sure it’s got more popular as it’s almost become a thing to say to stand out, bet most of the young people who say it won’t feel the same when they leave school.
I think with gender people don’t like how if you’re a man for example, society puts pressure on you that you’re meant to behave in a certain way, and feel or not feel certain emotions etc. So if you’re a person that doesn’t feel comfortable behaving in that way, you get all these people saying they don’t identify as a man. For me they shouldn’t have to believe they’re a different gender to feel comfortable. If you don’t feel you fit in with the stereotypical man image, then you don’t have to, who cares how you behave. You can still be a man, shame all these people feel they have to come up with a new label.its a mix of factors, legit biological reasons, or a mix of attention seeking, and reflective of how much pressure our society puts on people to fit in with their respective gender
posted on 27/11/18
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 11 minutes ago
Scruttocks, you've raised some very good points. It's an interesting (currently) theoretical discussion.
The special relativity twin paradox theory comes into play quite nicely here and may help rationalise the concept of aging and the abstract concept of age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it's very interesting and possibly going to be a problem for people who "older" than they actually are.
With the way the world is going atm someone who is a 50 year old in a 70 year olds body and then has that measured medically will likely be discarded as an option for employment yet won't be given an early retirement.
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
The anti-aging possibility really makes me nervous. The world will be completely overpopulated within a few generations, unless we stop having children. Then what? What is the point? Not a world that I would want to be a part of.
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
So Adam Johnson and his like will be out within a week. Slip the girls a few grand to get them to identify as a 19 year old, and all of a sudden it's legal. There would be mayhem if that is allowed to happen. I'll be identifying as 67 and claiming my pension immediately.
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 27/11/18
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
But couldn't one make the same argument about gender? How can one change one's gender though?
———————
I don’t think ageing and gender are the same in that way. I’m saying that age is purely a number but you may be able to alter the effects that number has on the body. The number can’t change.
I’m no biologist, but there are people born with both male and female characteristics, and some who feel in their bones that they can’t neatly fit into either category.
Without time travel or redefining what numbers mean, you cannot change your age even if you change your body’s signs of age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chromosomal abnormalities lead to the very rare cares of hermaphroditism. They are not however some split 50/50 male/female hybrid.
Page 1 of 4