Best to get Jose back in. Or Simone. Someone to suit the Chelsea style.
Get rid at the end of the season if we've not made CL football.
Currently the football is horrible to watch, possession for the sake of it. Don't think we've got the players to play this way so if he was to stay beyond this season then he'd need backing in the window if we're not banned.
But so far the signings/loan deals made have been poor - Higuain, Jorginho and Kovacic. Kepa has been good and will improve as he's quite young.
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 30 minutes ago
Best to get Jose back in. Or Simone. Someone to suit the Chelsea style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So In other words, oleball?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 12 minutes ago
Some of your criticisms are very fair, but the defence of Sarri for me, is mainly because some criticisms are not consistent. For example, you mentioned his lack of success, which is often taken as a prophesy that he has no chance of winning any silverware here. Yet when we’re discussing potential replacements, whether a manager has achieved success or not is ignored, or diminished in favour of other arguments.
You’re right that we can only judge Sarri on what he produces here. So far it is taking him far too long to adapt to the demands of the league; but this season was never going to be easy. We’ve been far too erratic to predict what is yet to come, and what can be considered success or failure is likely to all come down to a game or a point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Side,
I think my biggest gripe is one I’ve not used on here…………….
“You clearly don’t understand Sarriball or what he’s trying to do………”
In terms of Trophies, I don’t demand them. Hell I am that lone Chelsea Fan that would still welcome (not just accept) Koeman as our next head coach. I understand the argument for not hiring him. Especially his last season at Everton.
But I also remember his time at Southampton and his first season at Everton when he did not spend that much. He had to use and utilise what he had. Similar conditions to what Sarri is about work under, assuming the board stick with him and the ban is not lifted.
Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them?
------------------------
This is my biggest problem. Why are we as a club going against our identity? We've always been the team that doesn't play great football and sometimes does park the bus but above all we do what it takes to win and that's what our club has been about for the last 10 years. If Man City and Arsenal are the beauties then we're the beasts, furrrking up the beauties by playing maybe what some people would call negative football but it's football that wins. Why are we going against that? I don't understand it.
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 56 minutes ago
Best to get Jose back in. Or Simone. Someone to suit the Chelsea style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love Simeone or Mourinho. Those are the types of managers who've always had success with us. Why are we going against our identity as a club?
Fecking heck the lack of patience with our support is embaressing.
You lot are asking a manager to be patient with young players, but then show no patience for the manager
"At the moment we’re not even playing what I consider attractive football."
We haven't done since Conte was here and we employed wing backs, and actually took it to teams
Sarri won't be leaving until
1) We get knocked out of Europa
2) We don't make top four
3) Roman sells to someone else who will have their own agenda
Even then we're probably so disjointed in the upper eschelons of the club that we'll end up retaining him until next season
By which time we'll be into no transfers, CHO & Hazard will be gone or going, and we'll be trawling back loanees like it's going out of fashion in a desperate attempt to try and find an 11 to survive in the Prem top 10 until we can buy new players
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
comment by Jose Mourinho, just the Portuguese Fat Sam, te... (U22090)
posted 47 minutes ago
Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them?
------------------------
This is my biggest problem. Why are we as a club going against our identity? We've always been the team that doesn't play great football and sometimes does park the bus but above all we do what it takes to win and that's what our club has been about for the last 10 years. If Man City and Arsenal are the beauties then we're the beasts, furrrking up the beauties by playing maybe what some people would call negative football but it's football that wins. Why are we going against that? I don't understand it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This assumes that if we revert back to this "negative" style that we would be successful again. We actually don't have the squad to play counter attacking football, nor do we have the squad to play possession football.
Also, your claim lacks any nuance, as both under Conte and Mourinho we reverted between possession and counter attacking. The problem is that we never made much of a leap forward (despite some success), and never quite worked out the balance between the two styles to become consistent. I have no issue to becoming more flexible, provided we build a better team for this approach. Right we don't have this team unfortunately.
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That we will be fighting to survive in top 10.
"So take away my gripe about his stubbornness and his reluctance to play the younger players……………"
We've had three managers on the trot who have been deemed stubborn and reluctant to give young players a chance, or rotate the players. Could this be because we have cultivated a culture of immediate success which makes it almost impossible for managers to have time to experiment, or gamble with youth players? I wouldn't expect any of managers to have done much differently to be honest.
"Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them? "
We've not even gone a full season yet, and here you are comparing us to Arsenal.
The rest of your article is a complete strawman of those who want to give a manager time. Again, you completely miss any nuance, so this article is complete BS
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That we will be fighting to survive in top 10.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you see us next term...assuming Sarri is still in place and we have no transfers..?
It's quite funny black hawk, only we could give an 18 year old 20-25 appearances in a season which leads to an England call up and still be criticized for being "reluctant to play youth"
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That we will be fighting to survive in top 10.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you see us next term...assuming Sarri is still in place and we have no transfers..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite some way clear of the bottom half of the table.
Also, the irony of highlighting Arsenal - a team which PROMOTED youth players for years, and won nothing!
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 3 minutes ago
It's quite funny black hawk, only we could give an 18 year old 20-25 appearances in a season which leads to an England call up and still be criticized for being "reluctant to play youth"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly!
I agree somewhat that Sarri should be giving more opportunities with our youth players. But you can't expect any manager to try this without an element of patience.
Also, its worth considering how despite the limited opportunities, every youth player has improved quite drastically. RLC particularly looks like he has learned a lot, and could if he avoids injury be making the jump to the first team. Sarri in general is renowned in developing players; he is one of the finest coaches in this regard.
comment by The Black Hawk War, or, How to Demolish an Entire Civilization and Still Feel Good About Yourself in the Morning (U16342)
posted 15 minutes ago
"So take away my gripe about his stubbornness and his reluctance to play the younger players……………"
We've had three managers on the trot who have been deemed stubborn and reluctant to give young players a chance, or rotate the players. Could this be because we have cultivated a culture of immediate success which makes it almost impossible for managers to have time to experiment, or gamble with youth players? I wouldn't expect any of managers to have done much differently to be honest.
"Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them? "
We've not even gone a full season yet, and here you are comparing us to Arsenal.
The rest of your article is a complete strawman of those who want to give a manager time. Again, you completely miss any nuance, so this article is complete BS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we’re talking ‘BS’ then could it be I am expecting Sarri to be true to his own words?
“I now consider Callum on the same level as Willian and Pedro.” Actions speak louder than words, that statement is now more than 2 months ago. No evidence that he really believed what he said.
Could it not now be that the instant success culture might not have applied to him considering his own CV?
“We've not even gone a full season yet, and here you are comparing us to Arsenal”
You’re right I should not have not have done that. Nothing we’ve done so far suggests we’re gonna even reach as high as Wenger’s Arsenal. And we’re certainly not playing as good football as they were, and I’m not saying Wenger’s Arsenal played that great football, except in the eyes of journos and pundits etc.
comment by The Black Hawk War, or, How to Demolish an Entire Civilization and Still Feel Good About Yourself in the Morning (U16342)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 3 minutes ago
It's quite funny black hawk, only we could give an 18 year old 20-25 appearances in a season which leads to an England call up and still be criticized for being "reluctant to play youth"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly!
I agree somewhat that Sarri should be giving more opportunities with our youth players. But you can't expect any manager to try this without an element of patience.
Also, its worth considering how despite the limited opportunities, every youth player has improved quite drastically. RLC particularly looks like he has learned a lot, and could if he avoids injury be making the jump to the first team. Sarri in general is renowned in developing players; he is one of the finest coaches in this regard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If any youth player can deem themselves a bit unfortunate its Ampadu, RLC and CHO have had a lot of games/minutes all things considered.
I saw this on Reddit the other day which rung true, when CHO wasn't playing the narrative was we should be playing him the same way Arsenal are with Smith Rowe or City are with Foden (ala in the second rate tourny's), we do that and people moan because most of his minutes aren't league, no doubt had it been the league he started in and not the cups the narrative would be we aren't trusting him in the tournaments we have a chance of winning
And don't get me started on RLC, i explained in detail yesterday or the day before the elements on which he improved this season and why i didn't particularly rate him previously and i got my head bit off and accused of having an agenda
comment by The Black Hawk War, or, How to Demolish an Entire Civilization and Still Feel Good About Yourself in the Morning (U16342)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Jose Mourinho, just the Portuguese Fat Sam, te... (U22090)
posted 47 minutes ago
Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them?
------------------------
This is my biggest problem. Why are we as a club going against our identity? We've always been the team that doesn't play great football and sometimes does park the bus but above all we do what it takes to win and that's what our club has been about for the last 10 years. If Man City and Arsenal are the beauties then we're the beasts, furrrking up the beauties by playing maybe what some people would call negative football but it's football that wins. Why are we going against that? I don't understand it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This assumes that if we revert back to this "negative" style that we would be successful again. We actually don't have the squad to play counter attacking football, nor do we have the squad to play possession football.
Also, your claim lacks any nuance, as both under Conte and Mourinho we reverted between possession and counter attacking. The problem is that we never made much of a leap forward (despite some success), and never quite worked out the balance between the two styles to become consistent. I have no issue to becoming more flexible, provided we build a better team for this approach. Right we don't have this team unfortunately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never wanted Sarri. His philosophy is different to the one our club has. It’s clear that he prioritises his own style of football above all else and I don’t want that. I want a manager who prioritises winning above all else and plays whatever style he needs to to win, which is exactly what you’ve said Mourinho and Conte did.
Funny how you're so pro Conte when it suits your argument
Hudson Odoi should be a 100% first team regular every single week. We may have the next ronaldo but we don’t play him every week like we should. It’s not that he’s not getting game time, it’s that he’s not getting enough game time.
Sign in if you want to comment
The regular defence of Sarri.........
Page 1 of 4
posted on 2/4/19
Best to get Jose back in. Or Simone. Someone to suit the Chelsea style.
posted on 2/4/19
Get rid at the end of the season if we've not made CL football.
Currently the football is horrible to watch, possession for the sake of it. Don't think we've got the players to play this way so if he was to stay beyond this season then he'd need backing in the window if we're not banned.
But so far the signings/loan deals made have been poor - Higuain, Jorginho and Kovacic. Kepa has been good and will improve as he's quite young.
posted on 2/4/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 30 minutes ago
Best to get Jose back in. Or Simone. Someone to suit the Chelsea style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So In other words, oleball?
posted on 2/4/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/4/19
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 12 minutes ago
Some of your criticisms are very fair, but the defence of Sarri for me, is mainly because some criticisms are not consistent. For example, you mentioned his lack of success, which is often taken as a prophesy that he has no chance of winning any silverware here. Yet when we’re discussing potential replacements, whether a manager has achieved success or not is ignored, or diminished in favour of other arguments.
You’re right that we can only judge Sarri on what he produces here. So far it is taking him far too long to adapt to the demands of the league; but this season was never going to be easy. We’ve been far too erratic to predict what is yet to come, and what can be considered success or failure is likely to all come down to a game or a point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Side,
I think my biggest gripe is one I’ve not used on here…………….
“You clearly don’t understand Sarriball or what he’s trying to do………”
In terms of Trophies, I don’t demand them. Hell I am that lone Chelsea Fan that would still welcome (not just accept) Koeman as our next head coach. I understand the argument for not hiring him. Especially his last season at Everton.
But I also remember his time at Southampton and his first season at Everton when he did not spend that much. He had to use and utilise what he had. Similar conditions to what Sarri is about work under, assuming the board stick with him and the ban is not lifted.
posted on 2/4/19
Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them?
------------------------
This is my biggest problem. Why are we as a club going against our identity? We've always been the team that doesn't play great football and sometimes does park the bus but above all we do what it takes to win and that's what our club has been about for the last 10 years. If Man City and Arsenal are the beauties then we're the beasts, furrrking up the beauties by playing maybe what some people would call negative football but it's football that wins. Why are we going against that? I don't understand it.
posted on 2/4/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 56 minutes ago
Best to get Jose back in. Or Simone. Someone to suit the Chelsea style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love Simeone or Mourinho. Those are the types of managers who've always had success with us. Why are we going against our identity as a club?
posted on 2/4/19
Fecking heck the lack of patience with our support is embaressing.
You lot are asking a manager to be patient with young players, but then show no patience for the manager
posted on 2/4/19
"At the moment we’re not even playing what I consider attractive football."
We haven't done since Conte was here and we employed wing backs, and actually took it to teams
posted on 2/4/19
Sarri won't be leaving until
1) We get knocked out of Europa
2) We don't make top four
3) Roman sells to someone else who will have their own agenda
Even then we're probably so disjointed in the upper eschelons of the club that we'll end up retaining him until next season
By which time we'll be into no transfers, CHO & Hazard will be gone or going, and we'll be trawling back loanees like it's going out of fashion in a desperate attempt to try and find an 11 to survive in the Prem top 10 until we can buy new players
posted on 2/4/19
Bit extreme.
posted on 2/4/19
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
posted on 2/4/19
comment by Jose Mourinho, just the Portuguese Fat Sam, te... (U22090)
posted 47 minutes ago
Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them?
------------------------
This is my biggest problem. Why are we as a club going against our identity? We've always been the team that doesn't play great football and sometimes does park the bus but above all we do what it takes to win and that's what our club has been about for the last 10 years. If Man City and Arsenal are the beauties then we're the beasts, furrrking up the beauties by playing maybe what some people would call negative football but it's football that wins. Why are we going against that? I don't understand it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This assumes that if we revert back to this "negative" style that we would be successful again. We actually don't have the squad to play counter attacking football, nor do we have the squad to play possession football.
Also, your claim lacks any nuance, as both under Conte and Mourinho we reverted between possession and counter attacking. The problem is that we never made much of a leap forward (despite some success), and never quite worked out the balance between the two styles to become consistent. I have no issue to becoming more flexible, provided we build a better team for this approach. Right we don't have this team unfortunately.
posted on 2/4/19
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That we will be fighting to survive in top 10.
posted on 2/4/19
"So take away my gripe about his stubbornness and his reluctance to play the younger players……………"
We've had three managers on the trot who have been deemed stubborn and reluctant to give young players a chance, or rotate the players. Could this be because we have cultivated a culture of immediate success which makes it almost impossible for managers to have time to experiment, or gamble with youth players? I wouldn't expect any of managers to have done much differently to be honest.
"Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them? "
We've not even gone a full season yet, and here you are comparing us to Arsenal.
The rest of your article is a complete strawman of those who want to give a manager time. Again, you completely miss any nuance, so this article is complete BS
posted on 2/4/19
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That we will be fighting to survive in top 10.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you see us next term...assuming Sarri is still in place and we have no transfers..?
posted on 2/4/19
It's quite funny black hawk, only we could give an 18 year old 20-25 appearances in a season which leads to an England call up and still be criticized for being "reluctant to play youth"
posted on 2/4/19
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff JW Pepper (U1007)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 59 seconds ago
Bit extreme.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what is DL...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That we will be fighting to survive in top 10.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you see us next term...assuming Sarri is still in place and we have no transfers..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite some way clear of the bottom half of the table.
posted on 2/4/19
Also, the irony of highlighting Arsenal - a team which PROMOTED youth players for years, and won nothing!
posted on 2/4/19
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 3 minutes ago
It's quite funny black hawk, only we could give an 18 year old 20-25 appearances in a season which leads to an England call up and still be criticized for being "reluctant to play youth"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly!
I agree somewhat that Sarri should be giving more opportunities with our youth players. But you can't expect any manager to try this without an element of patience.
Also, its worth considering how despite the limited opportunities, every youth player has improved quite drastically. RLC particularly looks like he has learned a lot, and could if he avoids injury be making the jump to the first team. Sarri in general is renowned in developing players; he is one of the finest coaches in this regard.
posted on 2/4/19
comment by The Black Hawk War, or, How to Demolish an Entire Civilization and Still Feel Good About Yourself in the Morning (U16342)
posted 15 minutes ago
"So take away my gripe about his stubbornness and his reluctance to play the younger players……………"
We've had three managers on the trot who have been deemed stubborn and reluctant to give young players a chance, or rotate the players. Could this be because we have cultivated a culture of immediate success which makes it almost impossible for managers to have time to experiment, or gamble with youth players? I wouldn't expect any of managers to have done much differently to be honest.
"Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them? "
We've not even gone a full season yet, and here you are comparing us to Arsenal.
The rest of your article is a complete strawman of those who want to give a manager time. Again, you completely miss any nuance, so this article is complete BS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we’re talking ‘BS’ then could it be I am expecting Sarri to be true to his own words?
“I now consider Callum on the same level as Willian and Pedro.” Actions speak louder than words, that statement is now more than 2 months ago. No evidence that he really believed what he said.
Could it not now be that the instant success culture might not have applied to him considering his own CV?
“We've not even gone a full season yet, and here you are comparing us to Arsenal”
You’re right I should not have not have done that. Nothing we’ve done so far suggests we’re gonna even reach as high as Wenger’s Arsenal. And we’re certainly not playing as good football as they were, and I’m not saying Wenger’s Arsenal played that great football, except in the eyes of journos and pundits etc.
posted on 2/4/19
comment by The Black Hawk War, or, How to Demolish an Entire Civilization and Still Feel Good About Yourself in the Morning (U16342)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by DL11 (U21614)
posted 3 minutes ago
It's quite funny black hawk, only we could give an 18 year old 20-25 appearances in a season which leads to an England call up and still be criticized for being "reluctant to play youth"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly!
I agree somewhat that Sarri should be giving more opportunities with our youth players. But you can't expect any manager to try this without an element of patience.
Also, its worth considering how despite the limited opportunities, every youth player has improved quite drastically. RLC particularly looks like he has learned a lot, and could if he avoids injury be making the jump to the first team. Sarri in general is renowned in developing players; he is one of the finest coaches in this regard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If any youth player can deem themselves a bit unfortunate its Ampadu, RLC and CHO have had a lot of games/minutes all things considered.
I saw this on Reddit the other day which rung true, when CHO wasn't playing the narrative was we should be playing him the same way Arsenal are with Smith Rowe or City are with Foden (ala in the second rate tourny's), we do that and people moan because most of his minutes aren't league, no doubt had it been the league he started in and not the cups the narrative would be we aren't trusting him in the tournaments we have a chance of winning
And don't get me started on RLC, i explained in detail yesterday or the day before the elements on which he improved this season and why i didn't particularly rate him previously and i got my head bit off and accused of having an agenda
posted on 2/4/19
comment by The Black Hawk War, or, How to Demolish an Entire Civilization and Still Feel Good About Yourself in the Morning (U16342)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Jose Mourinho, just the Portuguese Fat Sam, te... (U22090)
posted 47 minutes ago
Remember when we used to take the mick out of Arsenal for going all those years without a trophy? Their football was considered to be pleasing on the eye. Do we really want to just become a reincarnation of them?
------------------------
This is my biggest problem. Why are we as a club going against our identity? We've always been the team that doesn't play great football and sometimes does park the bus but above all we do what it takes to win and that's what our club has been about for the last 10 years. If Man City and Arsenal are the beauties then we're the beasts, furrrking up the beauties by playing maybe what some people would call negative football but it's football that wins. Why are we going against that? I don't understand it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This assumes that if we revert back to this "negative" style that we would be successful again. We actually don't have the squad to play counter attacking football, nor do we have the squad to play possession football.
Also, your claim lacks any nuance, as both under Conte and Mourinho we reverted between possession and counter attacking. The problem is that we never made much of a leap forward (despite some success), and never quite worked out the balance between the two styles to become consistent. I have no issue to becoming more flexible, provided we build a better team for this approach. Right we don't have this team unfortunately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never wanted Sarri. His philosophy is different to the one our club has. It’s clear that he prioritises his own style of football above all else and I don’t want that. I want a manager who prioritises winning above all else and plays whatever style he needs to to win, which is exactly what you’ve said Mourinho and Conte did.
posted on 2/4/19
Funny how you're so pro Conte when it suits your argument
posted on 2/4/19
Hudson Odoi should be a 100% first team regular every single week. We may have the next ronaldo but we don’t play him every week like we should. It’s not that he’s not getting game time, it’s that he’s not getting enough game time.
Page 1 of 4