comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Champions League itself is a joke. It's massively rigged in favour of the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues.
It doesn't have the same integrity or value as the old European Cup for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it? The old European Cup style would be far easier for the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues to win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
Would you like 64 years of empirical evidence?
Sign of how far united have come down when they start questioning CL places 👍
Soon they’ll question UEFA league places too
This debate has been going on for as long as CL was extended to second, few years back
It is not driven by money as much as it is driven by how well in CL each league’s champion fared and generally the better those teams did, the more sense it made to allow more clubs from that league.
The impact of this ruling meant CL got more attractive and generates more rewards.
Van Der Sar never moaned while he was qualifying for CL with his clubs.
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Champions League itself is a joke. It's massively rigged in favour of the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues.
It doesn't have the same integrity or value as the old European Cup for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it? The old European Cup style would be far easier for the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues to win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it nonsense? Juventus went out to the 3rd placed Spanish team, Bayern to 4th in England, Barca to the 4th in England, Man City to the 3rd in England, PSG to the 2nd in England.
They would have had a fair easier ride if they had to face Estonian, Faroe Islands, and Georgian champions instead...
Also should be mentioned all those champions are champions again, so the varied nature of competitors idea seems very misplaced...
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Champions League itself is a joke. It's massively rigged in favour of the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues.
It doesn't have the same integrity or value as the old European Cup for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it? The old European Cup style would be far easier for the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues to win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it nonsense? Juventus went out to the 3rd placed Spanish team, Bayern to 4th in England, Barca to the 4th in England, Man City to the 3rd in England, PSG to the 2nd in England.
They would have had a fair easier ride if they had to face Estonian, Faroe Islands, and Georgian champions instead...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's nonsense because since the Cup became the League, the trophy has been won near exclusively by one of the top two richest sides in one of the top three richest leagues.
Previously, it was won by Steaua Bucaresti, Marseille, Hamburg, PSV, Feyenoord, Benfica, Celtic, Villa, Forest and Red Star Belgrade, amongst others.
Money has warped football and some football fans, they forgot what its all about, happy to see their teams with nobody from their locale representing them and how they feel about their club
Its all about the bottom line. All the domestic cups are devalued because there is no money in it, no cup winners cup (diddy trophy but still threw up interesting games) UEFA cup has morphed into the underfunded Europa league (still a decent trophy though) and the CL isn't for Champions but for 2nd, 3rd and 4th place losers.
Since it became the champions leagues has been won by Marseille, Ajax, Porto, Dortmund, Inter, Chelsea.
3 of the teams you list were corrupt.
3 of the others came from the biggest leagues.
Between 69 and 84 the European cup was won 4 times in a row by Dutch sides, 3 times in a row by Bayern then six times in a row by English sides.
The biggest leagues dominating.
In fact the history of the European Cup is one where it has been dominated by one country, mainly one team, years in a row. Real 5 in a row, then Benfica 2 in a row, then over to Italy and the Milan clubs sharing 3 in a row. Then there was a short period where it was passed around before the Ajax domination.
The English ban is the only thing offering variance - Liverpool would have had a few more otherwise.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
Money has warped football and some football fans, they forgot what its all about, happy to see their teams with nobody from their locale representing them and how they feel about their club
Its all about the bottom line. All the domestic cups are devalued because there is no money in it, no cup winners cup (diddy trophy but still threw up interesting games) UEFA cup has morphed into the underfunded Europa league (still a decent trophy though) and the CL isn't for Champions but for 2nd, 3rd and 4th place losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about entertainment. Who cares where a player was born? I want to see the best players and the best teams competing.
As someone who supports a Conference South team and has been to watch the likes of Millwall, Brentford, Gillingham, Charlton, Leyton Orient and Sheppey United on numerous occasions, I slum it regularly. The Premier League and Champions League, however, are elite competitions and should have the best teams and best players in them.
Where was the entertainment in the CL final?
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 9 seconds ago
Where was the entertainment in the CL final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It had been used up in the cracking knockout stage games unfortunately.
Three of the worst finals in European Cup / Champions League history were Red Star vs Marseille, Bucherest vs Barcelona and PSV vs Benfica
I, of course, hear what you're saying about top players playing in the top competitions, there is no dispute about that. The wider point is about fairness and equality of opportunity. We are all part of the UEFA family yet due to TV audience figures there is a disparity of equitable distribution of top tier placings, a lack of romance of the cup opportunity.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 9 seconds ago
Where was the entertainment in the CL final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It had been used up in the cracking knockout stage games unfortunately.
Three of the worst finals in European Cup / Champions League history were Red Star vs Marseille, Bucherest vs Barcelona and PSV vs Benfica
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Marseille v Milan
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
I, of course, hear what you're saying about top players playing in the top competitions, there is no dispute about that. The wider point is about fairness and equality of opportunity. We are all part of the UEFA family yet due to TV audience figures there is a disparity of equitable distribution of top tier placings, a lack of romance of the cup opportunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% correct.
Additionally, within individual leagues there are ways to create greater balance. This could be in part achieved by distributing European tv/sponsorship revenue equally amongst all teams in that league, so you don't end up with having the same team from a certain league qualifying each season. This would all play into the romance of the competition, and European football competition in general. It would mean my club (Celtic) are less likely to saunter to the league each season comfortably, but I'd be all for that.
Truly bored these days of the billionaire circle-jerk.
Its become boring these days with the same teams in the later stages.
European football used to be exciting playing teams you had rarely seen against players you knew nothing about.
comment by timmy (U14278)
posted 2 minutes ago
Its become boring these days with the same teams in the later stages.
European football used to be exciting playing teams you had rarely seen against players you knew nothing about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, Spurs, Ajax, Liverpool always being in the latter stages...
European football used to be exciting playing teams you had rarely seen against players you knew nothing about.
United fans should be in for a great season then.
Spurs and Liverpool are now two of the top ten richest clubs in the world. Given that they qualified, we should expect to see them in the knockout stages of the CL with its current bias.
Outside the PL, only PSG (just), Bayern, Barca and Real are wealthier.
Ajax were the only really huge surprise.
Celtic got to play Alashkert and Suduva last season. Must have been very exciting. Shame we dont get teams like that in CL semi finals.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 14 hours, 34 minutes ago
Celtic got to play Alashkert and Suduva last season. Must have been very exciting. Shame we dont get teams like that in CL semi finals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The snobbery of the entitled in one post.
Soulless.
Dj can never understand on this one. Which is surprising being an arsenal fan who have has much chance as Celtic of winning it.
DJ’s points about the CL are usually spot on.
Nothing to do with snobbery. There is a massive gap in quality, and while the CL has to be representative of a Europe wide competition, it also has to be competitive.
The system in use does that, it gives clubs from "smaller" leagues the chance to prove themselves against other clubs from "smaller" leagues. If a team is good enough it will progress and get the rewards.
The funny thing is, I get slagged off on here - what is mainly a forum for football fans - for watching too much football. I go to non-league games, I go to League 2, League 1 and Championship games. I will be watching the AFCON, I will be watching Copa America.
I am one of the most likely to watch Alashkert vs Suduva if it happened.
Yet I am the 'snob'
It's the snobbery of 'elite' when that 'elite' is a closed shop. There is no opportunity for evolution when money is the deciding factor.
The pleasure neutrals get when, for example, Leicester win the league or Ajax get to the CL semi, is delightful but they are anomalies.
Share the wealth in a more equitable fashion and the opportunity to see alternatives to the usual suspects from the TV audience leagues/state sponsored teams will grow. Change is good.
Sign in if you want to comment
UEFA are a joke..
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 10/6/19
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Champions League itself is a joke. It's massively rigged in favour of the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues.
It doesn't have the same integrity or value as the old European Cup for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it? The old European Cup style would be far easier for the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues to win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
posted on 10/6/19
Would you like 64 years of empirical evidence?
posted on 10/6/19
Sign of how far united have come down when they start questioning CL places 👍
Soon they’ll question UEFA league places too
This debate has been going on for as long as CL was extended to second, few years back
It is not driven by money as much as it is driven by how well in CL each league’s champion fared and generally the better those teams did, the more sense it made to allow more clubs from that league.
The impact of this ruling meant CL got more attractive and generates more rewards.
Van Der Sar never moaned while he was qualifying for CL with his clubs.
posted on 10/6/19
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Champions League itself is a joke. It's massively rigged in favour of the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues.
It doesn't have the same integrity or value as the old European Cup for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it? The old European Cup style would be far easier for the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues to win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it nonsense? Juventus went out to the 3rd placed Spanish team, Bayern to 4th in England, Barca to the 4th in England, Man City to the 3rd in England, PSG to the 2nd in England.
They would have had a fair easier ride if they had to face Estonian, Faroe Islands, and Georgian champions instead...
posted on 10/6/19
Also should be mentioned all those champions are champions again, so the varied nature of competitors idea seems very misplaced...
posted on 10/6/19
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by rosso is facking happy(U17054)
posted 6 minutes ago
The Champions League itself is a joke. It's massively rigged in favour of the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues.
It doesn't have the same integrity or value as the old European Cup for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it? The old European Cup style would be far easier for the biggest teams in the biggest money leagues to win.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it nonsense? Juventus went out to the 3rd placed Spanish team, Bayern to 4th in England, Barca to the 4th in England, Man City to the 3rd in England, PSG to the 2nd in England.
They would have had a fair easier ride if they had to face Estonian, Faroe Islands, and Georgian champions instead...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's nonsense because since the Cup became the League, the trophy has been won near exclusively by one of the top two richest sides in one of the top three richest leagues.
Previously, it was won by Steaua Bucaresti, Marseille, Hamburg, PSV, Feyenoord, Benfica, Celtic, Villa, Forest and Red Star Belgrade, amongst others.
posted on 10/6/19
Money has warped football and some football fans, they forgot what its all about, happy to see their teams with nobody from their locale representing them and how they feel about their club
Its all about the bottom line. All the domestic cups are devalued because there is no money in it, no cup winners cup (diddy trophy but still threw up interesting games) UEFA cup has morphed into the underfunded Europa league (still a decent trophy though) and the CL isn't for Champions but for 2nd, 3rd and 4th place losers.
posted on 10/6/19
Since it became the champions leagues has been won by Marseille, Ajax, Porto, Dortmund, Inter, Chelsea.
3 of the teams you list were corrupt.
3 of the others came from the biggest leagues.
Between 69 and 84 the European cup was won 4 times in a row by Dutch sides, 3 times in a row by Bayern then six times in a row by English sides.
The biggest leagues dominating.
In fact the history of the European Cup is one where it has been dominated by one country, mainly one team, years in a row. Real 5 in a row, then Benfica 2 in a row, then over to Italy and the Milan clubs sharing 3 in a row. Then there was a short period where it was passed around before the Ajax domination.
The English ban is the only thing offering variance - Liverpool would have had a few more otherwise.
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
Money has warped football and some football fans, they forgot what its all about, happy to see their teams with nobody from their locale representing them and how they feel about their club
Its all about the bottom line. All the domestic cups are devalued because there is no money in it, no cup winners cup (diddy trophy but still threw up interesting games) UEFA cup has morphed into the underfunded Europa league (still a decent trophy though) and the CL isn't for Champions but for 2nd, 3rd and 4th place losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about entertainment. Who cares where a player was born? I want to see the best players and the best teams competing.
As someone who supports a Conference South team and has been to watch the likes of Millwall, Brentford, Gillingham, Charlton, Leyton Orient and Sheppey United on numerous occasions, I slum it regularly. The Premier League and Champions League, however, are elite competitions and should have the best teams and best players in them.
posted on 10/6/19
Where was the entertainment in the CL final?
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 9 seconds ago
Where was the entertainment in the CL final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It had been used up in the cracking knockout stage games unfortunately.
Three of the worst finals in European Cup / Champions League history were Red Star vs Marseille, Bucherest vs Barcelona and PSV vs Benfica
posted on 10/6/19
I, of course, hear what you're saying about top players playing in the top competitions, there is no dispute about that. The wider point is about fairness and equality of opportunity. We are all part of the UEFA family yet due to TV audience figures there is a disparity of equitable distribution of top tier placings, a lack of romance of the cup opportunity.
posted on 10/6/19
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 9 seconds ago
Where was the entertainment in the CL final?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It had been used up in the cracking knockout stage games unfortunately.
Three of the worst finals in European Cup / Champions League history were Red Star vs Marseille, Bucherest vs Barcelona and PSV vs Benfica
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Marseille v Milan
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
I, of course, hear what you're saying about top players playing in the top competitions, there is no dispute about that. The wider point is about fairness and equality of opportunity. We are all part of the UEFA family yet due to TV audience figures there is a disparity of equitable distribution of top tier placings, a lack of romance of the cup opportunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% correct.
Additionally, within individual leagues there are ways to create greater balance. This could be in part achieved by distributing European tv/sponsorship revenue equally amongst all teams in that league, so you don't end up with having the same team from a certain league qualifying each season. This would all play into the romance of the competition, and European football competition in general. It would mean my club (Celtic) are less likely to saunter to the league each season comfortably, but I'd be all for that.
Truly bored these days of the billionaire circle-jerk.
posted on 10/6/19
Its become boring these days with the same teams in the later stages.
European football used to be exciting playing teams you had rarely seen against players you knew nothing about.
posted on 10/6/19
comment by timmy (U14278)
posted 2 minutes ago
Its become boring these days with the same teams in the later stages.
European football used to be exciting playing teams you had rarely seen against players you knew nothing about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, Spurs, Ajax, Liverpool always being in the latter stages...
posted on 10/6/19
European football used to be exciting playing teams you had rarely seen against players you knew nothing about.
United fans should be in for a great season then.
posted on 10/6/19
Spurs and Liverpool are now two of the top ten richest clubs in the world. Given that they qualified, we should expect to see them in the knockout stages of the CL with its current bias.
Outside the PL, only PSG (just), Bayern, Barca and Real are wealthier.
Ajax were the only really huge surprise.
posted on 10/6/19
Celtic got to play Alashkert and Suduva last season. Must have been very exciting. Shame we dont get teams like that in CL semi finals.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 14 hours, 34 minutes ago
Celtic got to play Alashkert and Suduva last season. Must have been very exciting. Shame we dont get teams like that in CL semi finals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The snobbery of the entitled in one post.
Soulless.
posted on 11/6/19
Dj can never understand on this one. Which is surprising being an arsenal fan who have has much chance as Celtic of winning it.
posted on 11/6/19
DJ’s points about the CL are usually spot on.
posted on 11/6/19
Nothing to do with snobbery. There is a massive gap in quality, and while the CL has to be representative of a Europe wide competition, it also has to be competitive.
The system in use does that, it gives clubs from "smaller" leagues the chance to prove themselves against other clubs from "smaller" leagues. If a team is good enough it will progress and get the rewards.
posted on 11/6/19
The funny thing is, I get slagged off on here - what is mainly a forum for football fans - for watching too much football. I go to non-league games, I go to League 2, League 1 and Championship games. I will be watching the AFCON, I will be watching Copa America.
I am one of the most likely to watch Alashkert vs Suduva if it happened.
Yet I am the 'snob'
posted on 13/6/19
It's the snobbery of 'elite' when that 'elite' is a closed shop. There is no opportunity for evolution when money is the deciding factor.
The pleasure neutrals get when, for example, Leicester win the league or Ajax get to the CL semi, is delightful but they are anomalies.
Share the wealth in a more equitable fashion and the opportunity to see alternatives to the usual suspects from the TV audience leagues/state sponsored teams will grow. Change is good.
Page 5 of 6
6