No reason he cant do well at all. Management takes more than a bit of luck though. They get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go badly.
Hope he does do well fwiw. Be great to have some top English managers.
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 23 minutes ago
No reason he cant do well at all. Management takes more than a bit of luck though. They get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go badly.
Hope he does do well fwiw. Be great to have some top English managers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. A good manager is a lucky manager as they say.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 23 minutes ago
No reason he cant do well at all. Management takes more than a bit of luck though. They get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go badly.
Hope he does do well fwiw. Be great to have some top English managers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. A good manager is a lucky manager as they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Managers can just do one good job and live off it for ages.
Look at Moyes or Ole.
The trick is to get a big job with really good players to manage and then youre on the merry go round.
Typical, Robbing. Always having digs, and being wrong on both accounts.
Anyway I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll address the Op.
Success is relative to the club and its expectations. Derby are about where they are supposed to be under Lampard. With a bit of luck, they could have gone up instead. I think management isn't about being a good player nor just a measure of intelligence. It's how good you are are motivating and commanding respect from the players. Neil Warnock doesn't come across as the most intelligent of people, yet he is a good Championship level manager (poor PL one).
Typical!
Anyway I don't want to derail the thread.
At least we can agree on something
Not really as I'm not wrong on either count.
Ah well.
Always think of Warnock as quite a wily character even if he isn't outwardly intelligent.
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 58 seconds ago
Always think of Warnock as quite a wily character even if he isn't outwardly intelligent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he gets far too much grief myself.
Old man now too.
Robbing, yeah Moyes lived off that Everton success for years thanks to having cuddly Bill Kenwright as Chairman who didn't sack him even through the big dips Everton went through under Moyes.
He wouldn't have lasted as long as he did at a different club.
The best outcome in my opinion would be that Sarri has a change of heart, stays with us, discards the deadwood and uses the best of the youth until the transfer ban has been served.
If, however we take the rumours of his departure at face value, his replacement is a situation I’m torn over. Ideally, in a perfect world I’d like to see Frank continue to cut his teeth and learn his trade in a lower league and return to us with a broader managerial experience behind him.
However, we’re not facing an ideal situation at the moment. I don’t see a so called, high profile safe pair of hands such as Allegri wanting to come anywhere near us at the present time, with a sub standard squad with it’s best player now in the clutches of RM and facing the prospect of using youth players (with three of the best currently long term injured).
I think top four next season without Hazard will be too much to ask of any manager and unless anything dramatic happens over the transfer ban in the next few weeks, any manager will HAVE to use the academy to fill any gaps.
Given the circumstances I think the best solution, although far from ideal, is to appoint someone who will be fully prepared and committed to use the academy and who has a good knowledge of the abilities of the young players that are available to them. Straight away that narrows our options with Frank with Morris as his assistant as the only realistic contender. Morris coming with Frank, I’d suggest is absolutely essential given his in depth knowledge of the academy.
I really don’t see any other logical contender who will be prepared to come in and work with their hands tied behind their backs.
The other problem is that the club have to expect that whoever they pick will be unable to deliver a top four finnish.
All opinions of whether he should be our next manager aside, it's really hard to imagine Lampard being anything but a success in management (provided he makes the right club choices like all managers).
As a player he was pretty much a manager's dream. If he can work out how to instill that dedication and work ethic into his players that he had, and early signs are good at Derby, how can he possibly fail? The only aspect left is the tactical, and that's where Morris comes in - if he proved anything as our U18's manager besides being a great coach it was his ability as a tactician.
Hope he stays right where he is for now, don't make the same mistake AVB did by jumping back to Chelsea at the first opportunity.
Allegri looks the best bet for Chelsea imo. Not sure he speaks English but so what. Chelsea have a bit of history with Italian managers too. Be good to see what he can do outside of Juve too but I like his footy.
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 9 minutes ago
All opinions of whether he should be our next manager aside, it's really hard to imagine Lampard being anything but a success in management (provided he makes the right club choices like all managers).
As a player he was pretty much a manager's dream. If he can work out how to instill that dedication and work ethic into his players that he had, and early signs are good at Derby, how can he possibly fail? The only aspect left is the tactical, and that's where Morris comes in - if he proved anything as our U18's manager besides being a great coach it was his ability as a tactician.
Hope he stays right where he is for now, don't make the same mistake AVB did by jumping back to Chelsea at the first opportunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is, is Roman the type of manager to hear "not now try again in a few years"? Not only that, if he shows himself to be a top manager and City also try and get him are we that sure he will choose us in a straight choice? We seen how ruthless he is with his career going there as a player.
There will never be a perfect time to appoint Lampard, if he comes we will likely be his first big job plus I think unless he does a Jose 15/16 he will be afforded the time.
DL11, just because he seems like he should be a great manager doesn't mean he will be though. There's every chance he'll be shown completely out of his depth if we gave him the job now. Again, AVB!!!
It's a shame there's no loaning system for managers cos that's 100% the solution here
Allegri looks the best bet for Chelsea imo. Not sure he speaks English but so what. Chelsea have a bit of history with Italian managers too. Be good to see what he can do outside of Juve too but I like his footy.
---------------------------------------------------------
Agreed but never gunna happen. The world's his oyster right now, no way will he view us as an attractive prospect.
Where next for him? Could wait to see how Tuchel and Zidane get in I guess. Valverde doesnt look that safe either I guess. Dunno about Bayern.
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 51 minutes ago
Not really as I'm not wrong on either count.
Ah well.
----
I was referring to derailing the thread when I said we could agree on something.
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 51 minutes ago
Not really as I'm not wrong on either count.
Ah well.
----
I was referring to derailing the thread when I said we could agree on something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well after you did so yesterday and attempting to today Im starting to notice a pattern.
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 38 minutes ago
DL11, just because he seems like he should be a great manager doesn't mean he will be though. There's every chance he'll be shown completely out of his depth if we gave him the job now. Again, AVB!!!
It's a shame there's no loaning system for managers cos that's 100% the solution here
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe but on the other hand if he is set to become a top manager we will see signs of it even if he initially struggles.
We have gone down pretty much every other road with managers we may aswell give this one a try.
We have gone down pretty much every other road with managers we may aswell give this one a try.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I do see that argument. Bringing Lampard in would be systematic of the problems rather than addressing any solutions, but that in itself creates a 'why not?' argument. We've always been about impulsively going in one direction only to U-turn in a year/two years later, so in a weird way he would kind of fit into the chaotic nature in which we make managerial appointments cos we have never done that before - makes it intriguing if nothing else
My issue with it as I've stated before is blowing a real opportunity to fix that underling problem down the road. Funnily enough if Morris was still our U18's manager (and still killing it) I'd have advocated for promoting them now MUCH more than I did last season because in the grand scheme of things if he fails it's not that big of a deal, but Lampard's different. The risk of allowing him to develop and possibly choose a rival if he does succeed is worth it compared to hiring him now and potentially ruining him as a potential beacon of unity in 3/4/5 years time.
This also depends how much weight you put onto managers growth and the importance of career choices in how they function in their jobs, which I do a great deal... e.g. I still believe if AVB had of stayed at Porto even just one more year his entire career would've panned out differently.
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 3 hours, 11 minutes ago
Allegri looks the best bet for Chelsea imo. Not sure he speaks English but so what. Chelsea have a bit of history with Italian managers too. Be good to see what he can do outside of Juve too but I like his footy.
---------------------------------------------------------
Agreed but never gunna happen. The world's his oyster right now, no way will he view us as an attractive prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I see it the other way. I'd say we'd be a very tempting proposition for him. Massive wages, very good players to work with albeit with a transfer ban, living in London.
Also if things don't work out then there's almost zero damage to his rep as we sack so many managers anyway. What's not to like from his part ?
I also think that the club will likely to appoint him this summer. He's a free agent which will hugely appeal.
Not that he's be my first choice as I'm not sure he's what we need at the moment. Then again I'm still not sure what the club's plan is going forward or if we even have one tbh.
I would love to have Lampard (and Morris) back at the club - I think he is as intelligent as anyone in the game (which isn't necessarily saying a lot). But I would much prefer him to cut his teeth as a manager elsewhere - otherwise I fear he will have one bad season at Chelsea and will be sacked, as we're not known for our patience.
I would far prefer to let Allegri manage for now. I realize he won't be able to make any signings this year - but it is just for one season. Next Summer he will be able to make huge signings with the Hazard money and CL money we generate. He is very good at dealing with big egos, and I think he would make an ideal manager until Frank is ready to join him/replace him.
I would love to have Lampard (and Morris) back at the club - I think he is as intelligent as anyone in the game (which isn't necessarily saying a lot). But I would much prefer him to cut his teeth as a manager elsewhere - otherwise I fear he will have one bad season at Chelsea and will be sacked, as we're not known for our patience.
I would far prefer to let Allegri manage for now. I realize he won't be able to make any signings this year - but it is just for one season. Next Summer he will be able to make huge signings with the Hazard money and CL money we generate. He is very good at dealing with big egos, and I think he would make an ideal manager until Frank is ready to join him/replace him.
---------------------------------------------------------
This
Though I doubt Allegri will join. If he does, perfect
Been seeing reports that Allegri isn't interested in us as he wants a year off but I suspect that's just paper talk and he'll be appointed after Sarri to Juvevis done and dusted.
Sign in if you want to comment
Super Frank's managerial career.
Page 1 of 2
posted on 11/6/19
No reason he cant do well at all. Management takes more than a bit of luck though. They get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go badly.
Hope he does do well fwiw. Be great to have some top English managers.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 23 minutes ago
No reason he cant do well at all. Management takes more than a bit of luck though. They get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go badly.
Hope he does do well fwiw. Be great to have some top English managers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. A good manager is a lucky manager as they say.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 23 minutes ago
No reason he cant do well at all. Management takes more than a bit of luck though. They get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go badly.
Hope he does do well fwiw. Be great to have some top English managers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. A good manager is a lucky manager as they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Managers can just do one good job and live off it for ages.
Look at Moyes or Ole.
The trick is to get a big job with really good players to manage and then youre on the merry go round.
posted on 11/6/19
Typical, Robbing. Always having digs, and being wrong on both accounts.
Anyway I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll address the Op.
Success is relative to the club and its expectations. Derby are about where they are supposed to be under Lampard. With a bit of luck, they could have gone up instead. I think management isn't about being a good player nor just a measure of intelligence. It's how good you are are motivating and commanding respect from the players. Neil Warnock doesn't come across as the most intelligent of people, yet he is a good Championship level manager (poor PL one).
posted on 11/6/19
Typical!
Anyway I don't want to derail the thread.
posted on 11/6/19
At least we can agree on something
posted on 11/6/19
Not really as I'm not wrong on either count.
Ah well.
posted on 11/6/19
Always think of Warnock as quite a wily character even if he isn't outwardly intelligent.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 58 seconds ago
Always think of Warnock as quite a wily character even if he isn't outwardly intelligent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think he gets far too much grief myself.
Old man now too.
posted on 11/6/19
Robbing, yeah Moyes lived off that Everton success for years thanks to having cuddly Bill Kenwright as Chairman who didn't sack him even through the big dips Everton went through under Moyes.
He wouldn't have lasted as long as he did at a different club.
posted on 11/6/19
The best outcome in my opinion would be that Sarri has a change of heart, stays with us, discards the deadwood and uses the best of the youth until the transfer ban has been served.
If, however we take the rumours of his departure at face value, his replacement is a situation I’m torn over. Ideally, in a perfect world I’d like to see Frank continue to cut his teeth and learn his trade in a lower league and return to us with a broader managerial experience behind him.
However, we’re not facing an ideal situation at the moment. I don’t see a so called, high profile safe pair of hands such as Allegri wanting to come anywhere near us at the present time, with a sub standard squad with it’s best player now in the clutches of RM and facing the prospect of using youth players (with three of the best currently long term injured).
I think top four next season without Hazard will be too much to ask of any manager and unless anything dramatic happens over the transfer ban in the next few weeks, any manager will HAVE to use the academy to fill any gaps.
Given the circumstances I think the best solution, although far from ideal, is to appoint someone who will be fully prepared and committed to use the academy and who has a good knowledge of the abilities of the young players that are available to them. Straight away that narrows our options with Frank with Morris as his assistant as the only realistic contender. Morris coming with Frank, I’d suggest is absolutely essential given his in depth knowledge of the academy.
I really don’t see any other logical contender who will be prepared to come in and work with their hands tied behind their backs.
The other problem is that the club have to expect that whoever they pick will be unable to deliver a top four finnish.
posted on 11/6/19
All opinions of whether he should be our next manager aside, it's really hard to imagine Lampard being anything but a success in management (provided he makes the right club choices like all managers).
As a player he was pretty much a manager's dream. If he can work out how to instill that dedication and work ethic into his players that he had, and early signs are good at Derby, how can he possibly fail? The only aspect left is the tactical, and that's where Morris comes in - if he proved anything as our U18's manager besides being a great coach it was his ability as a tactician.
Hope he stays right where he is for now, don't make the same mistake AVB did by jumping back to Chelsea at the first opportunity.
posted on 11/6/19
Allegri looks the best bet for Chelsea imo. Not sure he speaks English but so what. Chelsea have a bit of history with Italian managers too. Be good to see what he can do outside of Juve too but I like his footy.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 9 minutes ago
All opinions of whether he should be our next manager aside, it's really hard to imagine Lampard being anything but a success in management (provided he makes the right club choices like all managers).
As a player he was pretty much a manager's dream. If he can work out how to instill that dedication and work ethic into his players that he had, and early signs are good at Derby, how can he possibly fail? The only aspect left is the tactical, and that's where Morris comes in - if he proved anything as our U18's manager besides being a great coach it was his ability as a tactician.
Hope he stays right where he is for now, don't make the same mistake AVB did by jumping back to Chelsea at the first opportunity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is, is Roman the type of manager to hear "not now try again in a few years"? Not only that, if he shows himself to be a top manager and City also try and get him are we that sure he will choose us in a straight choice? We seen how ruthless he is with his career going there as a player.
There will never be a perfect time to appoint Lampard, if he comes we will likely be his first big job plus I think unless he does a Jose 15/16 he will be afforded the time.
posted on 11/6/19
DL11, just because he seems like he should be a great manager doesn't mean he will be though. There's every chance he'll be shown completely out of his depth if we gave him the job now. Again, AVB!!!
It's a shame there's no loaning system for managers cos that's 100% the solution here
posted on 11/6/19
Allegri looks the best bet for Chelsea imo. Not sure he speaks English but so what. Chelsea have a bit of history with Italian managers too. Be good to see what he can do outside of Juve too but I like his footy.
---------------------------------------------------------
Agreed but never gunna happen. The world's his oyster right now, no way will he view us as an attractive prospect.
posted on 11/6/19
Where next for him? Could wait to see how Tuchel and Zidane get in I guess. Valverde doesnt look that safe either I guess. Dunno about Bayern.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 51 minutes ago
Not really as I'm not wrong on either count.
Ah well.
----
I was referring to derailing the thread when I said we could agree on something.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 51 minutes ago
Not really as I'm not wrong on either count.
Ah well.
----
I was referring to derailing the thread when I said we could agree on something.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well after you did so yesterday and attempting to today Im starting to notice a pattern.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 38 minutes ago
DL11, just because he seems like he should be a great manager doesn't mean he will be though. There's every chance he'll be shown completely out of his depth if we gave him the job now. Again, AVB!!!
It's a shame there's no loaning system for managers cos that's 100% the solution here
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe but on the other hand if he is set to become a top manager we will see signs of it even if he initially struggles.
We have gone down pretty much every other road with managers we may aswell give this one a try.
posted on 11/6/19
We have gone down pretty much every other road with managers we may aswell give this one a try.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I do see that argument. Bringing Lampard in would be systematic of the problems rather than addressing any solutions, but that in itself creates a 'why not?' argument. We've always been about impulsively going in one direction only to U-turn in a year/two years later, so in a weird way he would kind of fit into the chaotic nature in which we make managerial appointments cos we have never done that before - makes it intriguing if nothing else
My issue with it as I've stated before is blowing a real opportunity to fix that underling problem down the road. Funnily enough if Morris was still our U18's manager (and still killing it) I'd have advocated for promoting them now MUCH more than I did last season because in the grand scheme of things if he fails it's not that big of a deal, but Lampard's different. The risk of allowing him to develop and possibly choose a rival if he does succeed is worth it compared to hiring him now and potentially ruining him as a potential beacon of unity in 3/4/5 years time.
This also depends how much weight you put onto managers growth and the importance of career choices in how they function in their jobs, which I do a great deal... e.g. I still believe if AVB had of stayed at Porto even just one more year his entire career would've panned out differently.
posted on 11/6/19
comment by Devil D.A. (U6522)
posted 3 hours, 11 minutes ago
Allegri looks the best bet for Chelsea imo. Not sure he speaks English but so what. Chelsea have a bit of history with Italian managers too. Be good to see what he can do outside of Juve too but I like his footy.
---------------------------------------------------------
Agreed but never gunna happen. The world's his oyster right now, no way will he view us as an attractive prospect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I see it the other way. I'd say we'd be a very tempting proposition for him. Massive wages, very good players to work with albeit with a transfer ban, living in London.
Also if things don't work out then there's almost zero damage to his rep as we sack so many managers anyway. What's not to like from his part ?
I also think that the club will likely to appoint him this summer. He's a free agent which will hugely appeal.
Not that he's be my first choice as I'm not sure he's what we need at the moment. Then again I'm still not sure what the club's plan is going forward or if we even have one tbh.
posted on 11/6/19
I would love to have Lampard (and Morris) back at the club - I think he is as intelligent as anyone in the game (which isn't necessarily saying a lot). But I would much prefer him to cut his teeth as a manager elsewhere - otherwise I fear he will have one bad season at Chelsea and will be sacked, as we're not known for our patience.
I would far prefer to let Allegri manage for now. I realize he won't be able to make any signings this year - but it is just for one season. Next Summer he will be able to make huge signings with the Hazard money and CL money we generate. He is very good at dealing with big egos, and I think he would make an ideal manager until Frank is ready to join him/replace him.
posted on 11/6/19
I would love to have Lampard (and Morris) back at the club - I think he is as intelligent as anyone in the game (which isn't necessarily saying a lot). But I would much prefer him to cut his teeth as a manager elsewhere - otherwise I fear he will have one bad season at Chelsea and will be sacked, as we're not known for our patience.
I would far prefer to let Allegri manage for now. I realize he won't be able to make any signings this year - but it is just for one season. Next Summer he will be able to make huge signings with the Hazard money and CL money we generate. He is very good at dealing with big egos, and I think he would make an ideal manager until Frank is ready to join him/replace him.
---------------------------------------------------------
This
Though I doubt Allegri will join. If he does, perfect
posted on 12/6/19
Been seeing reports that Allegri isn't interested in us as he wants a year off but I suspect that's just paper talk and he'll be appointed after Sarri to Juvevis done and dusted.
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