comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by The Mane Man ( life at this age is rubbish with no money #needajob) (U19731)
posted 16 minutes ago
I will not say VVD is the best ever maybe if we win the league and he has won trophies in the next few years.
Pogba would not get in a Klopp team. He needs to run and press for 90 minutes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None of your players did this effectively in the league until last season, Klopp trained them to play that way. I’m guessing he could do the same with another talented player dedicated to his sport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they did. In fact Salah didnt do as well last season. We tightened the defence though. Midfield was not given as much freedom really but the year before we still reached the CL final and finished 4th with 'average' and 'poor' midfielders.
I dont mean it in a bad way but after chatting to you on other threads (such as Alisson would be a 'complete liability' in other systems despite being a success for all three of his clubs and country) that you find it hard to give credit where's it's due to Liverpool players.
Managers get far too much credit when things go well and far too much grief when things go badly. Football is ultimately about players and they deserve just as much credit. There is a reason he sold the entire team (and most of the squad) but kept Henderson and Firmino.
I get bias but it just gets silly on here sometimes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robbing on that same thread I called Klopp a good manager and Salah, Mane, Firminho, Robertson and Fab great players.
I have criticised your keeper and two of your starting midfielders. Three players out of 11.
What I’ve found from these conversations is that a lot of Liverpool fans expect every single one of their players to be rated.
Comments like Henderson being better than Pogba individually is a typical sign of fans going overboard. Every fan base does it but in the JA community not many Liverpool fans are looking at things realistically since last season imo.
Judging by some of the logic on here Gibson, Cleverley and Anderson were top midfielders. Sometimes you just have to be happy you have a brilliant manager instead of rating players with average ability.
Out of all of our senior midfielders combined I feel Pogba and Fab are the only players other top clubs would go for.
Liverpool don't have any great midfielders. Pogba has more natural talent than all of them. A hell of a lot more. But his application is nowhere near where it needs to be. The Liverpool midfield is comprised of a group of good midfielders that are all excellent professionals, are well drilled, selfless and working under a very good manager in a system where everyone understands their job. They are a prime example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
I think a lot of people just look at numbers tbh. I remember Henderson getting pelters saying that his numbers show he's bobbins (despite playing a deep 6 and instructions to the letter).
Fabinho comes in and Henderson promptly moved forward to cm and gets about 6 assists and a goal in as many games. Id hazard thats better than Freds career at Utd to date.
It's all very well saying it's all down to Klopp but if it was why didnt he keep the likes of Joe Allen and Lucas whilst turning Stewart into the new Paul Ince? Henderson isnt a bit of nostalgia he's a bonafide international footballer who captains the European champions.
Wijnaldum is technically VERY good. His numbers are poor for us but he quite obviously has goals in him because he scored loads at Newcastle and PSV and does so for his country too. Brought on against Barca and given license to get in the box he promptly rattles two goals in.
It shows an incredible lack of understanding of the game in my opinion.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
Liverpool don't have any great midfielders. Pogba has more natural talent than all of them. A hell of a lot more. But his application is nowhere near where it needs to be. The Liverpool midfield is comprised of a group of good midfielders that are all excellent professionals, are well drilled, selfless and working under a very good manager in a system where everyone understands their job. They are a prime example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id say that's about spot on realky Elvis. Fabinho could become one of the best in his position though I reckon, interested to see this seaso. him now he's had a season under his belt and earned a starting place.
Yeh I like Fabinho. He would have been a good signing for us.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yeh I like Fabinho. He would have been a good signing for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially given the issues Utd had at rb and the season before he played there at Monaco. Can cover cb too. Signing came from nowhere tbh.
Very slow start, took a bit too much time on the ball and struggled to get games but looking a very good player and getting better. Surprised he got over looked for the copa america given his end to the season.
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think a lot of people just look at numbers tbh. I remember Henderson getting pelters saying that his numbers show he's bobbins (despite playing a deep 6 and instructions to the letter).
Fabinho comes in and Henderson promptly moved forward to cm and gets about 6 assists and a goal in as many games. Id hazard thats better than Freds career at Utd to date.
It's all very well saying it's all down to Klopp but if it was why didnt he keep the likes of Joe Allen and Lucas whilst turning Stewart into the new Paul Ince? Henderson isnt a bit of nostalgia he's a bonafide international footballer who captains the European champions.
Wijnaldum is technically VERY good. His numbers are poor for us but he quite obviously has goals in him because he scored loads at Newcastle and PSV and does so for his country too. Brought on against Barca and given license to get in the box he promptly rattles two goals in.
It shows an incredible lack of understanding of the game in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It isn’t just numbers though or we’d be calling Pogba the best midfielder in the world. He produced the most out of any other midfielders in the top leagues last season but our frustration in Pogba is because he can produce even more with the right application.
Players like Henderson looked awful under different managers for club (Liverpool) and country. Klopp comes in and he’s performing because he’s given a job and he has the tools to do it. Klopp probably got rid of Allen and Stewart because they didn’t have the correct tools for the job he wanted them to do. You can only improve players who fit into your own philosophy which is why Ole has had a complete clear out.
It’s unfair to say people just find it hard to rate Liverpool players when the majority are indeed rated. There needs to be an acknowledgment that these players would not be selected for other top teams. This is why I give Klopp credit.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm dunno. Im quite patient though tbf.
On one hand I see a hugely talented footballer who came over here, think he was 22 or thereabouts, playing in his fouth league in five seasons which were all different countries. Got niggling injuries but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he's got incredible talent and could be one of the best midfielders in the league. His skill set is huge and he can do everything bar head the ball really. Great balance and acceleration. As such you want to give him time.
On the other hand I dont think he likes being kicked and there's something inside me that question his bottle.
Could be the next Essien or could be the next Anderson.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm dunno. Im quite patient though tbf.
On one hand I see a hugely talented footballer who came over here, think he was 22 or thereabouts, playing in his fouth league in five seasons which were all different countries. Got niggling injuries but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he's got incredible talent and could be one of the best midfielders in the league. His skill set is huge and he can do everything bar head the ball really. Great balance and acceleration. As such you want to give him time.
On the other hand I dont think he likes being kicked and there's something inside me that question his bottle.
Could be the next Essien or could be the next Anderson.
-------
Essien. Another one that got away. I think he was the most influential player the the pl for a few seasons. Great player.
All three when thryre on it are great to watch. Essien was pure power though wasnt he? No little skill either and would have been good if he'd been able to get on the pitch more as he had awful injuries. Always came across as a good lad too.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think a lot of people just look at numbers tbh. I remember Henderson getting pelters saying that his numbers show he's bobbins (despite playing a deep 6 and instructions to the letter).
Fabinho comes in and Henderson promptly moved forward to cm and gets about 6 assists and a goal in as many games. Id hazard thats better than Freds career at Utd to date.
It's all very well saying it's all down to Klopp but if it was why didnt he keep the likes of Joe Allen and Lucas whilst turning Stewart into the new Paul Ince? Henderson isnt a bit of nostalgia he's a bonafide international footballer who captains the European champions.
Wijnaldum is technically VERY good. His numbers are poor for us but he quite obviously has goals in him because he scored loads at Newcastle and PSV and does so for his country too. Brought on against Barca and given license to get in the box he promptly rattles two goals in.
It shows an incredible lack of understanding of the game in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It isn’t just numbers though or we’d be calling Pogba the best midfielder in the world. He produced the most out of any other midfielders in the top leagues last season but our frustration in Pogba is because he can produce even more with the right application.
Players like Henderson looked awful under different managers for club (Liverpool) and country. Klopp comes in and he’s performing because he’s given a job and he has the tools to do it. Klopp probably got rid of Allen and Stewart because they didn’t have the correct tools for the job he wanted them to do. You can only improve players who fit into your own philosophy which is why Ole has had a complete clear out.
It’s unfair to say people just find it hard to rate Liverpool players when the majority are indeed rated. There needs to be an acknowledgment that these players would not be selected for other top teams. This is why I give Klopp credit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed this.
You seem sound and capable of reasoned debate so Im genuinely not being rude but I just cant agree with what you write! Some of it I find baffling and quite a lot of it contradictory tbh.
Your first paragraph for example. I am constantly hearing, and this includes you, that Pogba is WC. Now this has to be because of his numbers but it aint his tracking back is it.
I cant agree with the second paragraph either. I dont think Henderson has looked awful. In fact I think him getting banned at the end of 2014 may have cost us the league, he was excellent. It's a fact that every single manager he's ever had since the age of 20 has started him and that shows he fits diiferent systems surely?
You said Alisson would be a 'complete liability' for other teams but suited City and Liverpool. That means not onpy has he suited every team he's ever played for but he suits the PL, CL and Copa America champions but not others? I just find that mental and based on nothing whatsoever. It's a guess.
Now as much as I can subscribe to some players suiting some systems more than others I can subscribe to Henderson, Fabinho and Wijnaldum being average and not getting in other sides.
Before City bought Rodri Id have said Henderson gets games at every top six side and starts at Utd and Arsenal. Plenty at Spurs and Chelsea too. Fabinho would get games at all top six. Wij would get starts at Arsenal but maybe less so at the others just because of the players already on their books. I think he'd struggling to get in Spurs and Citys side particularly.
Midfield is such an important area in football and ours is so solid I just cant agree I guess.
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm dunno. Im quite patient though tbf.
On one hand I see a hugely talented footballer who came over here, think he was 22 or thereabouts, playing in his fouth league in five seasons which were all different countries. Got niggling injuries but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he's got incredible talent and could be one of the best midfielders in the league. His skill set is huge and he can do everything bar head the ball really. Great balance and acceleration. As such you want to give him time.
On the other hand I dont think he likes being kicked and there's something inside me that question his bottle.
Could be the next Essien or could be the next Anderson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
hope you're wrong on the last part robbing, while no one likes to be kicked i hope kieta has the guts to play in the pl because he has the talent.
also i hope some of the people on this thread are just wumming when talking about goals being the way to judge football talent. if they aren't then they're just a bunch of fan girls.
Me too as it eould add an extra dimension to our midfield and Im not blind to that.
Fabinho, Henderson and Wij all take care of the ball. They can all tackle, they can all pass and the are all really good pros who work incredibly hard with great engines. Are those attributes all perfect for a Klopp side? Absolutely, but theyre also really important to midfield play in general. I dont think most managers want all three of that together, they want some of it plus a Silva or Eriksen and I include Klopp in that, but that doesnt mean that those attributes are now redundant and somehow dont count.
Gary Neville "At the moment Fabinho is the best holding midfielder in the world"
"Missed this.
You seem sound and capable of reasoned debate"
Unfortunately that stops when a Liverpool player is the topic. It must be really confusing for these people how we can be the best in Europe. They're all average, I don't understand.
To be fair many people have been saying this about Henderson for years yet he's captain of his club, has captained his country and generally starts every game he's available for, for both. Something has got to give here. Perhaps if people actually watched what he does, they'd see it.
I dont think it's a blanket thing but it definitely happens.
They probably think the same when Ive slated Herrera for being bang average (which he is of course). Thing is since Herrera has been at Utd theyve been rammal where as for 5 years Liverpool have been challenging for top honours with Hendo as a mainstay.
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I consider them one of the best. They have proved it over the last couple of seasons, where they have dominated the ball most games and been relentless in others, starving the opposition of the ball and putting them off their stride. They're an excellent midfield.
Can you name all the better ones?
And Midfield is the weakest area for England. Henderson is part of that midfield and has been for some time.
comment by Debating with Winston turns me on (U1721)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I consider them one of the best. They have proved it over the last couple of seasons, where they have dominated the ball most games and been relentless in others, starving the opposition of the ball and putting them off their stride. They're an excellent midfield.
Can you name all the better ones?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you?
Beat PSG.
I tjen distinctly remember being told, before we played Bayern, that our 'workman like midfield' wont be able to get near the likes of Thiago.
Hendo gets motm and we smash them.
We then went out to the Bernabau and had 53% possession with our 'workman like midfield' and smashed them 4-0 in the return. No Salah or Firmino in that game. Gini scores two, Henderson again brilliant.
Then beat Spurs who had three weeks to get fit and ready and we just strangled them.
We've list one league game in 55 odd games.
If our midfield is bad then theirs must be shiiiiiiiit seeing as we continually control possession and territory.
These are facts.
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 10 minutes ago
And Midfield is the weakest area for England. Henderson is part of that midfield and has been for some time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the weakest area for Liverpool too. What's your point?
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Debating with Winston turns me on (U1721)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I consider them one of the best. They have proved it over the last couple of seasons, where they have dominated the ball most games and been relentless in others, starving the opposition of the ball and putting them off their stride. They're an excellent midfield.
Can you name all the better ones?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not easily. Which is the point I'm making. You believe you could swap United's crap midfield for our CL winning midfield and it wouldn't make a difference, so you must believe many are better. I'd like to know which you believe are better. Just for laughs.
Our shiiiiiiiiiit midfield will go away to Napoli tonight. Really tough game to kick off our CL campaign and the first of four away games on the trot.
I dont think it clashes with Utd playing, couldnt find their midfield which is equally as good if not better, lining up anywhere tonight so maybe RDD can learn something.
Sign in if you want to comment
Midfields
Page 6 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by The Mane Man ( life at this age is rubbish with no money #needajob) (U19731)
posted 16 minutes ago
I will not say VVD is the best ever maybe if we win the league and he has won trophies in the next few years.
Pogba would not get in a Klopp team. He needs to run and press for 90 minutes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None of your players did this effectively in the league until last season, Klopp trained them to play that way. I’m guessing he could do the same with another talented player dedicated to his sport.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they did. In fact Salah didnt do as well last season. We tightened the defence though. Midfield was not given as much freedom really but the year before we still reached the CL final and finished 4th with 'average' and 'poor' midfielders.
I dont mean it in a bad way but after chatting to you on other threads (such as Alisson would be a 'complete liability' in other systems despite being a success for all three of his clubs and country) that you find it hard to give credit where's it's due to Liverpool players.
Managers get far too much credit when things go well and far too much grief when things go badly. Football is ultimately about players and they deserve just as much credit. There is a reason he sold the entire team (and most of the squad) but kept Henderson and Firmino.
I get bias but it just gets silly on here sometimes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robbing on that same thread I called Klopp a good manager and Salah, Mane, Firminho, Robertson and Fab great players.
I have criticised your keeper and two of your starting midfielders. Three players out of 11.
What I’ve found from these conversations is that a lot of Liverpool fans expect every single one of their players to be rated.
Comments like Henderson being better than Pogba individually is a typical sign of fans going overboard. Every fan base does it but in the JA community not many Liverpool fans are looking at things realistically since last season imo.
Judging by some of the logic on here Gibson, Cleverley and Anderson were top midfielders. Sometimes you just have to be happy you have a brilliant manager instead of rating players with average ability.
Out of all of our senior midfielders combined I feel Pogba and Fab are the only players other top clubs would go for.
posted on 16/9/19
Liverpool don't have any great midfielders. Pogba has more natural talent than all of them. A hell of a lot more. But his application is nowhere near where it needs to be. The Liverpool midfield is comprised of a group of good midfielders that are all excellent professionals, are well drilled, selfless and working under a very good manager in a system where everyone understands their job. They are a prime example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
posted on 16/9/19
I think a lot of people just look at numbers tbh. I remember Henderson getting pelters saying that his numbers show he's bobbins (despite playing a deep 6 and instructions to the letter).
Fabinho comes in and Henderson promptly moved forward to cm and gets about 6 assists and a goal in as many games. Id hazard thats better than Freds career at Utd to date.
It's all very well saying it's all down to Klopp but if it was why didnt he keep the likes of Joe Allen and Lucas whilst turning Stewart into the new Paul Ince? Henderson isnt a bit of nostalgia he's a bonafide international footballer who captains the European champions.
Wijnaldum is technically VERY good. His numbers are poor for us but he quite obviously has goals in him because he scored loads at Newcastle and PSV and does so for his country too. Brought on against Barca and given license to get in the box he promptly rattles two goals in.
It shows an incredible lack of understanding of the game in my opinion.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
Liverpool don't have any great midfielders. Pogba has more natural talent than all of them. A hell of a lot more. But his application is nowhere near where it needs to be. The Liverpool midfield is comprised of a group of good midfielders that are all excellent professionals, are well drilled, selfless and working under a very good manager in a system where everyone understands their job. They are a prime example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Id say that's about spot on realky Elvis. Fabinho could become one of the best in his position though I reckon, interested to see this seaso. him now he's had a season under his belt and earned a starting place.
posted on 16/9/19
Yeh I like Fabinho. He would have been a good signing for us.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
Yeh I like Fabinho. He would have been a good signing for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially given the issues Utd had at rb and the season before he played there at Monaco. Can cover cb too. Signing came from nowhere tbh.
Very slow start, took a bit too much time on the ball and struggled to get games but looking a very good player and getting better. Surprised he got over looked for the copa america given his end to the season.
posted on 16/9/19
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think a lot of people just look at numbers tbh. I remember Henderson getting pelters saying that his numbers show he's bobbins (despite playing a deep 6 and instructions to the letter).
Fabinho comes in and Henderson promptly moved forward to cm and gets about 6 assists and a goal in as many games. Id hazard thats better than Freds career at Utd to date.
It's all very well saying it's all down to Klopp but if it was why didnt he keep the likes of Joe Allen and Lucas whilst turning Stewart into the new Paul Ince? Henderson isnt a bit of nostalgia he's a bonafide international footballer who captains the European champions.
Wijnaldum is technically VERY good. His numbers are poor for us but he quite obviously has goals in him because he scored loads at Newcastle and PSV and does so for his country too. Brought on against Barca and given license to get in the box he promptly rattles two goals in.
It shows an incredible lack of understanding of the game in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It isn’t just numbers though or we’d be calling Pogba the best midfielder in the world. He produced the most out of any other midfielders in the top leagues last season but our frustration in Pogba is because he can produce even more with the right application.
Players like Henderson looked awful under different managers for club (Liverpool) and country. Klopp comes in and he’s performing because he’s given a job and he has the tools to do it. Klopp probably got rid of Allen and Stewart because they didn’t have the correct tools for the job he wanted them to do. You can only improve players who fit into your own philosophy which is why Ole has had a complete clear out.
It’s unfair to say people just find it hard to rate Liverpool players when the majority are indeed rated. There needs to be an acknowledgment that these players would not be selected for other top teams. This is why I give Klopp credit.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm dunno. Im quite patient though tbf.
On one hand I see a hugely talented footballer who came over here, think he was 22 or thereabouts, playing in his fouth league in five seasons which were all different countries. Got niggling injuries but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he's got incredible talent and could be one of the best midfielders in the league. His skill set is huge and he can do everything bar head the ball really. Great balance and acceleration. As such you want to give him time.
On the other hand I dont think he likes being kicked and there's something inside me that question his bottle.
Could be the next Essien or could be the next Anderson.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm dunno. Im quite patient though tbf.
On one hand I see a hugely talented footballer who came over here, think he was 22 or thereabouts, playing in his fouth league in five seasons which were all different countries. Got niggling injuries but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he's got incredible talent and could be one of the best midfielders in the league. His skill set is huge and he can do everything bar head the ball really. Great balance and acceleration. As such you want to give him time.
On the other hand I dont think he likes being kicked and there's something inside me that question his bottle.
Could be the next Essien or could be the next Anderson.
-------
Essien. Another one that got away. I think he was the most influential player the the pl for a few seasons. Great player.
posted on 16/9/19
All three when thryre on it are great to watch. Essien was pure power though wasnt he? No little skill either and would have been good if he'd been able to get on the pitch more as he had awful injuries. Always came across as a good lad too.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Kung Fu Cantona 🙏🏼 🇵🇸 (U18082)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 8 minutes ago
I think a lot of people just look at numbers tbh. I remember Henderson getting pelters saying that his numbers show he's bobbins (despite playing a deep 6 and instructions to the letter).
Fabinho comes in and Henderson promptly moved forward to cm and gets about 6 assists and a goal in as many games. Id hazard thats better than Freds career at Utd to date.
It's all very well saying it's all down to Klopp but if it was why didnt he keep the likes of Joe Allen and Lucas whilst turning Stewart into the new Paul Ince? Henderson isnt a bit of nostalgia he's a bonafide international footballer who captains the European champions.
Wijnaldum is technically VERY good. His numbers are poor for us but he quite obviously has goals in him because he scored loads at Newcastle and PSV and does so for his country too. Brought on against Barca and given license to get in the box he promptly rattles two goals in.
It shows an incredible lack of understanding of the game in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It isn’t just numbers though or we’d be calling Pogba the best midfielder in the world. He produced the most out of any other midfielders in the top leagues last season but our frustration in Pogba is because he can produce even more with the right application.
Players like Henderson looked awful under different managers for club (Liverpool) and country. Klopp comes in and he’s performing because he’s given a job and he has the tools to do it. Klopp probably got rid of Allen and Stewart because they didn’t have the correct tools for the job he wanted them to do. You can only improve players who fit into your own philosophy which is why Ole has had a complete clear out.
It’s unfair to say people just find it hard to rate Liverpool players when the majority are indeed rated. There needs to be an acknowledgment that these players would not be selected for other top teams. This is why I give Klopp credit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed this.
You seem sound and capable of reasoned debate so Im genuinely not being rude but I just cant agree with what you write! Some of it I find baffling and quite a lot of it contradictory tbh.
Your first paragraph for example. I am constantly hearing, and this includes you, that Pogba is WC. Now this has to be because of his numbers but it aint his tracking back is it.
I cant agree with the second paragraph either. I dont think Henderson has looked awful. In fact I think him getting banned at the end of 2014 may have cost us the league, he was excellent. It's a fact that every single manager he's ever had since the age of 20 has started him and that shows he fits diiferent systems surely?
You said Alisson would be a 'complete liability' for other teams but suited City and Liverpool. That means not onpy has he suited every team he's ever played for but he suits the PL, CL and Copa America champions but not others? I just find that mental and based on nothing whatsoever. It's a guess.
Now as much as I can subscribe to some players suiting some systems more than others I can subscribe to Henderson, Fabinho and Wijnaldum being average and not getting in other sides.
Before City bought Rodri Id have said Henderson gets games at every top six side and starts at Utd and Arsenal. Plenty at Spurs and Chelsea too. Fabinho would get games at all top six. Wij would get starts at Arsenal but maybe less so at the others just because of the players already on their books. I think he'd struggling to get in Spurs and Citys side particularly.
Midfield is such an important area in football and ours is so solid I just cant agree I guess.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Robbing Hoody - tell me I can't and I'll show you I can (U6374)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 32 seconds ago
What's happening with keita? Any hopes for him?
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Hmmm dunno. Im quite patient though tbf.
On one hand I see a hugely talented footballer who came over here, think he was 22 or thereabouts, playing in his fouth league in five seasons which were all different countries. Got niggling injuries but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he's got incredible talent and could be one of the best midfielders in the league. His skill set is huge and he can do everything bar head the ball really. Great balance and acceleration. As such you want to give him time.
On the other hand I dont think he likes being kicked and there's something inside me that question his bottle.
Could be the next Essien or could be the next Anderson.
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hope you're wrong on the last part robbing, while no one likes to be kicked i hope kieta has the guts to play in the pl because he has the talent.
also i hope some of the people on this thread are just wumming when talking about goals being the way to judge football talent. if they aren't then they're just a bunch of fan girls.
posted on 16/9/19
Me too as it eould add an extra dimension to our midfield and Im not blind to that.
Fabinho, Henderson and Wij all take care of the ball. They can all tackle, they can all pass and the are all really good pros who work incredibly hard with great engines. Are those attributes all perfect for a Klopp side? Absolutely, but theyre also really important to midfield play in general. I dont think most managers want all three of that together, they want some of it plus a Silva or Eriksen and I include Klopp in that, but that doesnt mean that those attributes are now redundant and somehow dont count.
posted on 17/9/19
Gary Neville "At the moment Fabinho is the best holding midfielder in the world"
posted on 17/9/19
"Missed this.
You seem sound and capable of reasoned debate"
Unfortunately that stops when a Liverpool player is the topic. It must be really confusing for these people how we can be the best in Europe. They're all average, I don't understand.
To be fair many people have been saying this about Henderson for years yet he's captain of his club, has captained his country and generally starts every game he's available for, for both. Something has got to give here. Perhaps if people actually watched what he does, they'd see it.
posted on 17/9/19
I dont think it's a blanket thing but it definitely happens.
They probably think the same when Ive slated Herrera for being bang average (which he is of course). Thing is since Herrera has been at Utd theyve been rammal where as for 5 years Liverpool have been challenging for top honours with Hendo as a mainstay.
posted on 17/9/19
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
posted on 17/9/19
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
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I consider them one of the best. They have proved it over the last couple of seasons, where they have dominated the ball most games and been relentless in others, starving the opposition of the ball and putting them off their stride. They're an excellent midfield.
Can you name all the better ones?
posted on 17/9/19
And Midfield is the weakest area for England. Henderson is part of that midfield and has been for some time.
posted on 17/9/19
comment by Debating with Winston turns me on (U1721)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I consider them one of the best. They have proved it over the last couple of seasons, where they have dominated the ball most games and been relentless in others, starving the opposition of the ball and putting them off their stride. They're an excellent midfield.
Can you name all the better ones?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you?
posted on 17/9/19
Beat PSG.
I tjen distinctly remember being told, before we played Bayern, that our 'workman like midfield' wont be able to get near the likes of Thiago.
Hendo gets motm and we smash them.
We then went out to the Bernabau and had 53% possession with our 'workman like midfield' and smashed them 4-0 in the return. No Salah or Firmino in that game. Gini scores two, Henderson again brilliant.
Then beat Spurs who had three weeks to get fit and ready and we just strangled them.
We've list one league game in 55 odd games.
If our midfield is bad then theirs must be shiiiiiiiit seeing as we continually control possession and territory.
These are facts.
posted on 17/9/19
comment by CurrentlyInChina (U11181)
posted 10 minutes ago
And Midfield is the weakest area for England. Henderson is part of that midfield and has been for some time.
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It's the weakest area for Liverpool too. What's your point?
posted on 17/9/19
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Debating with Winston turns me on (U1721)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Mr Brightside (U22216)
posted 3 minutes ago
Do you guys consider them the best midfield in football right now then given your success last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I consider them one of the best. They have proved it over the last couple of seasons, where they have dominated the ball most games and been relentless in others, starving the opposition of the ball and putting them off their stride. They're an excellent midfield.
Can you name all the better ones?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you?
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Not easily. Which is the point I'm making. You believe you could swap United's crap midfield for our CL winning midfield and it wouldn't make a difference, so you must believe many are better. I'd like to know which you believe are better. Just for laughs.
posted on 17/9/19
Our shiiiiiiiiiit midfield will go away to Napoli tonight. Really tough game to kick off our CL campaign and the first of four away games on the trot.
I dont think it clashes with Utd playing, couldnt find their midfield which is equally as good if not better, lining up anywhere tonight so maybe RDD can learn something.
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