comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 16 seconds ago
KingKenny, you say you’ll happily criticise him but above you didn’t.

Instead, you try to twist the debate into something else in order to avoid criticising him.

This thread sums it all up nicely.
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No I was specifically just talking about why he's been suspended. He did a shocking job of managing the whole thing but I also failed to see much in the way of anti semitism from him or even any support for it. He just didn't go gung ho and tried to leave room for opinions which then got him labelled imo.

I think at heart he's a good person but was never suitable to leading a political party.
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But no one accused him of antisemitism?

I used to think he was a good character but the more of I see and hear of him, the less I’m sure of that.

He’s behaved poorly here and he’s delusional, I think, about his impact on the Labour Party and their ability to get into power. There’s an arrogance to him I’m starting to dislike.

He's gone into defence mode 100%. And to be fair he was attacked pretty harshly so I can understand why. I think he's worked hard for causes he's believed in for decades and can rightly be called a principled man but now it's like he's some evil entity and I think he feels like his life work has been tarnished. I have a lot of sympathy for him. He stuck his head above the parapet when he wasn't the right person even though we massively need a move towards some of his politics in this country.

That’s fine, but I think when you respond to criticism of him with that type of thing, it comes across as trying to dismiss what we now know is valid criticism.

But the criticism is often portrayed as he knew about anti semitism and was fine with it or even encouraged it. I don't think that is true at all.

My favourite was the criticism when they eventually bent and accepted the definition of anti semitism but out a statement along side saying "this will not in any way undermine freedom of expression on Israel or the rights of Palestinians". And they got criticised for it as if it was a get out of jail card for racists. That is just silly and when that sort of criticism abounds I think it is understandable that people like me stand up on the other side to balance the discussion a bit.

You’re doing it again!

That isn’t what the criticism has been on here and nor is that what has been reported.

Instead of discussing the thing he’s actually guilty of, we’re now discussing something that hasn’t even been said, presumably so he can be excused?

Ok just clarify for me what exactly is he guilty of?

It’s all over the media mate!

The centrist and parliamentary establishment factions of Labour won't be happy until Corbyn has been totally humiliated.

The risk for them is that rather than weakening the more radical left-wing faction of the party with his beheading, it will instead find a less flip-flopping, more competent and assertive voice to lead it.

comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 14 minutes ago
The centrist and parliamentary establishment factions of Labour won't be happy until Corbyn has been totally humiliated.

The risk for them is that rather than weakening the more radical left-wing faction of the party with his beheading, it will instead find a less flip-flopping, more competent and assertive voice to lead it.


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Centrist Blair won and Starmer might...UK voters are centrist.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
It’s all over the media mate!
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Well I've obviously misinterpreted it so enlighten me

comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
It’s all over the media mate!
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Well I've obviously misinterpreted it so enlighten me
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You can't be serious?

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
It’s all over the media mate!
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Well I've obviously misinterpreted it so enlighten me
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You can't be serious?
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As McEnroe said haha.....people should read more and post less, imo.

EHCR report and news covered anti-Semitism in Labour and Jewish Labour mps hsve testified to this.

Are posters calling Labour mp Beger a liar?

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
It’s all over the media mate!
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Well I've obviously misinterpreted it so enlighten me
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't be serious?
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I am. You're telling me in talking about the wrong thing so I would like you to clarify exactly what I should be discussing.

comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
It’s all over the media mate!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I've obviously misinterpreted it so enlighten me
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't be serious?
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I am. You're telling me in talking about the wrong thing so I would like you to clarify exactly what I should be discussing.
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With respect, go and do a bit of reading about why he's been suspended, what the report found and what his reaction has been.

No sense in me copying and pasting things on here.

comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 52 minutes ago
It’s all over the media mate!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I've obviously misinterpreted it so enlighten me
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't be serious?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am. You're telling me in talking about the wrong thing so I would like you to clarify exactly what I should be discussing.
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Read what Jewish Labour mps and members say, rather than play gotcha with Winston.

Why do Jewish people feel attacked by Corbynista Labour?

Read EHCR report too.

Ok so I've specifically commented on his response. O think he's correct but has taken a defensive stance which again I've said I can understand. I think suspending him is disproportionate to his comments.

One of the EHCR findings was training wasn't good enough. That's a historic thing and they specifically said it improved under Corbyn. He's recommended the party implement all the recommendations asap.

Second finding Was political interference. This looks fair and it shoudlnt have happened. But then again when these issues are used as a political football then is it any surprise the leadership get involved trying to manage it?

Third finding was harassment and the 2 examples given were Livingston and Pam Bromley. Livingstons comments were misinformed as he's conflated Zionism with Hitler wanting to find a place for all the jews in Germany to go. The former is obviously about empowerment and the latter racism. He's bang to rights but not sure it's from a place of racism rather than just trying to deflect all the grief labour were getting. The issue with the Pam woman seems to be that she used the term fifth column. She uses it in an accurate way and I struggle to see how she is clearly being anti Jewish. In fact, when researching the term it appears that it has been a term widely used in Israel in reference to those who support the Palestinian cause. If they are the best 2 examples the EHCR could find and the other 18 were more borderline then I really don't think there is much there.

For the record I can't stand Corbyn and glad he's gone but it's pretty blatant the problems have been hugely exaggerated for political gain...

That's not to say they don't exist they clearly do but yes of course they've been exaggerated as all these things tend to be.

comment by Take Mahomes, Country Roads (U3979)
posted 29 minutes ago
For the record I can't stand Corbyn and glad he's gone but it's pretty blatant the problems have been hugely exaggerated for political gain...

That's not to say they don't exist they clearly do but yes of course they've been exaggerated as all these things tend to be.
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That is legit comment.

Antisemitism was empowered under jezza when hard left got him in leadership position as hatred of Jews was not rife under Milliband, right before Corbyn

comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Ok so I've specifically commented on his response. O think he's correct but has taken a defensive stance which again I've said I can understand. I think suspending him is disproportionate to his comments.

One of the EHCR findings was training wasn't good enough. That's a historic thing and they specifically said it improved under Corbyn. He's recommended the party implement all the recommendations asap.

Second finding Was political interference. This looks fair and it shoudlnt have happened. But then again when these issues are used as a political football then is it any surprise the leadership get involved trying to manage it?

Third finding was harassment and the 2 examples given were Livingston and Pam Bromley. Livingstons comments were misinformed as he's conflated Zionism with Hitler wanting to find a place for all the jews in Germany to go. The former is obviously about empowerment and the latter racism. He's bang to rights but not sure it's from a place of racism rather than just trying to deflect all the grief labour were getting. The issue with the Pam woman seems to be that she used the term fifth column. She uses it in an accurate way and I struggle to see how she is clearly being anti Jewish. In fact, when researching the term it appears that it has been a term widely used in Israel in reference to those who support the Palestinian cause. If they are the best 2 examples the EHCR could find and the other 18 were more borderline then I really don't think there is much there.
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Training Labour not to hate Jews or Israel is a strange one and under jezza from 2015, anti-Semitism increased, not decreased.

Best judge with racism is talk to Jewish Labour and Corbyn plus his Momentum far left cultists were found guilty....by Jewish Labour mps and voters.

If a black person accuses a political figure and party of being racist, it is good to listen to the people impacted.

Rather than put your own take on it.

If a muslim says a party member or leader is racist against Islam, it's not best to say, what about Isis?

It's really simple.

Momentum are the sort of arrogant organisation who think they can do whatever is necessary for what they perceive to be the greater good.

As far as they are concerned any criticism of them is just "a media witch hunt". Antisemitism a prime example of this.

Rather than try and solve the problem they are so belligerent they just turn a blind eye to it and strengthen their siege mentality.

Corbyn probably isn't himself anti-Semitic, but when you keep company as bad as he does, it'll eventually turn round and bite you.

comment by Take Mahomes, Country Roads (U3979)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
Momentum are the sort of arrogant organisation who think they can do whatever is necessary for what they perceive to be the greater good.

As far as they are concerned any criticism of them is just "a media witch hunt". Antisemitism a prime example of this.

Rather than try and solve the problem they are so belligerent they just turn a blind eye to it and strengthen their siege mentality.

Corbyn probably isn't himself anti-Semitic, but when you keep company as bad as he does, it'll eventually turn round and bite you.
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Seconded.