comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 22 minutes ago
So it's basically useless because it only considers consistency and pays no attention to fairness. I got it now.
What we need is a solution that is both the most consistent and most fair.
Whereas you're proposal may be consistent it is still the most unfair and therefore should be out the door. A balance would be preferable.
The reason you focus on consistency at the expense of fairness is for anyone to guess.
Fairness comes before consistency in my book.
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I already said that the preferable thing to do would be to finish the season.
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And if that can't happen then fairness should still take precedence over consistency IMO.
Your proposal is consistent but criminally unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just the way it goes. It's unfair that this virus happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can apply the same to the plans UEFA, the FA, the PFA, the government and the clubs, have in place to restart the season, if you think that isn't fair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair on who?
You advocating declaring LFC winners and everything else void. You cannot level that with then telling WBA and Leeds they are staying put.
You want the decision that's fairest to LFC.
Consistency across the EPL and the leagues is fairest to ALL. Within that some lose and some gain but ultimately it is all in balance. Sorry, the season is abandoned you cannot complete the remaining league and cup fixtures and this may harm some of you but its not favouring one team or another. All those with a chance to win something are affected equally.
You want - Sorry the season is abandoned, LFC are champions all the rest of you with a chance of success bad luck!
It follows that if it is unfair to relegate as fixtures have not been completed, then its not possible to promote as fixtures have not been completed and the same reason (failure to complete fixture) applies in both cases. If you declare LFC as champions and then don't relegate and then don't promote, then the reasoning has been applied unfairly.
Consistency of approach = the greatest level of fairness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it was fair on anybody. No decision at this point is fair. However I would go for the fairest approaches first and the least fairest last.
Restart the season
Average points if it can't be restarted
No league winner or relegation but sporting merit used to decide on Europe
Void the whole thing - which is apparently off the table considering UEFA's ruling.
I agree on restarting the season but the av. point thing is totally wrong. Football is not played on paper, as the cliche goes, and to impose notional results on teams to determine their league position is fundamentally wrong and unfair
I think your last 2 are pretty much the same thing. The difference being how the UEFA places are awarded. Sporting merit is very vague.
Sheff Utd have a game in hand which would take them 5th if they won (its vs Villa, so every chance). Where Man City are banned, this would see them in the UCL and that would be an amazing achievement.
I think the decision to void the league is relatively straightforward. Its abandoned so everyone is treated in the same way. Deciding who is put forward for UCL/Europa is a more complex decision which has to be made in any event
Good debate.
Just shows there is no answer to please everyone.
I still think we all need to stick together on decisions across Europe and as we seem to have pretty much the worse death rate figures albeit on released data we are not in a position at this time to even consider starting again.
Its the summer and I want to be watching cricket but that isn't likely either.
UTV
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree on restarting the season but the av. point thing is totally wrong. Football is not played on paper, as the cliche goes, and to impose notional results on teams to determine their league position is fundamentally wrong and unfair
I think your last 2 are pretty much the same thing. The difference being how the UEFA places are awarded. Sporting merit is very vague.
Sheff Utd have a game in hand which would take them 5th if they won (its vs Villa, so every chance). Where Man City are banned, this would see them in the UCL and that would be an amazing achievement.
I think the decision to void the league is relatively straightforward. Its abandoned so everyone is treated in the same way. Deciding who is put forward for UCL/Europa is a more complex decision which has to be made in any event
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The success of bookmakers suggest otherwise.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 37 minutes ago
I agree on restarting the season but the av. point thing is totally wrong. Football is not played on paper, as the cliche goes, and to impose notional results on teams to determine their league position is fundamentally wrong and unfair
I think your last 2 are pretty much the same thing. The difference being how the UEFA places are awarded. Sporting merit is very vague.
Sheff Utd have a game in hand which would take them 5th if they won (its vs Villa, so every chance). Where Man City are banned, this would see them in the UCL and that would be an amazing achievement.
I think the decision to void the league is relatively straightforward. Its abandoned so everyone is treated in the same way. Deciding who is put forward for UCL/Europa is a more complex decision which has to be made in any event
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, as I said, I agree it is unfair but I would order fairness as above.
In regards to Europe, you dont get to decide as IEFA has stated it has to be done regarding sporting merit, ie league positions. To get league positions you have to take current standings or in the case that all teams have not played the same amount of games average points. I'm not sure how else you can decide on who enters Europe with sporting merit in mind.
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
Forget relegation etc, just make sure we give Liverpool the title, that’s the main thing here, feck Leeds and those other clubs vying for promotion, we can just say start afresh next season, but we must make sure we give Liverpool that title at all costs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by villa1987 (U6870)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
Forget relegation etc, just make sure we give Liverpool the title, that’s the main thing here, feck Leeds and those other clubs vying for promotion, we can just say start afresh next season, but we must make sure we give Liverpool that title at all costs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's two khunts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Says a Leeds fan
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Do Liverpool want the title, considering it would be a best an honorary title, not a real one. The title goes to the one who at the end of the (full) season is the one who's top. It would almost certainly be Liverpool, but almost is not enough. Wouldn't Liverpool be better off saying they don't want it under these circumstances and they'll come again next year?
comment by McParlandTheGreat (U6150)
posted 6 hours, 47 minutes ago
Do Liverpool want the title, considering it would be a best an honorary title, not a real one. The title goes to the one who at the end of the (full) season is the one who's top. It would almost certainly be Liverpool, but almost is not enough. Wouldn't Liverpool be better off saying they don't want it under these circumstances and they'll come again next year?
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Nah. We've had the best season in history so far, deserves to be rewarded.
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 10 hours, 29 minutes ago
comment by villa1987 (U6870)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
Forget relegation etc, just make sure we give Liverpool the title, that’s the main thing here, feck Leeds and those other clubs vying for promotion, we can just say start afresh next season, but we must make sure we give Liverpool that title at all costs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's two khunts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I beg your pardon?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Looks like France ended theirs on average points.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 hours, 12 minutes ago
Looks like France ended theirs on average points.
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As a Villa fan don't want that. Main reason is that we've played that one game less than most others and a win there would take us clear of the relegation zone. In fact, it's so close down the bottom (Bournemouth would get relegated by a smidgen) then any of these "solutions" would be blatantly unfair, and indeed likely to be challenged in court.
Void the season and start next as it was last summer. It's by far the simplest and fairest. The teams who might get promoted wouldn't be too happy, but you don't gain promotion or suffer relegation in the middle of a season. If the season can't be played out, void it.
They should totally concentrate on how to handle next season.
Voiding the season would end up with challenges in court also.
Sign in if you want to comment
FFS Just end it
Page 5 of 5
posted on 30/4/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Doggie Dog© - Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation (U22357)
posted 22 minutes ago
So it's basically useless because it only considers consistency and pays no attention to fairness. I got it now.
What we need is a solution that is both the most consistent and most fair.
Whereas you're proposal may be consistent it is still the most unfair and therefore should be out the door. A balance would be preferable.
The reason you focus on consistency at the expense of fairness is for anyone to guess.
Fairness comes before consistency in my book.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I already said that the preferable thing to do would be to finish the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And if that can't happen then fairness should still take precedence over consistency IMO.
Your proposal is consistent but criminally unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just the way it goes. It's unfair that this virus happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can apply the same to the plans UEFA, the FA, the PFA, the government and the clubs, have in place to restart the season, if you think that isn't fair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair on who?
You advocating declaring LFC winners and everything else void. You cannot level that with then telling WBA and Leeds they are staying put.
You want the decision that's fairest to LFC.
Consistency across the EPL and the leagues is fairest to ALL. Within that some lose and some gain but ultimately it is all in balance. Sorry, the season is abandoned you cannot complete the remaining league and cup fixtures and this may harm some of you but its not favouring one team or another. All those with a chance to win something are affected equally.
You want - Sorry the season is abandoned, LFC are champions all the rest of you with a chance of success bad luck!
It follows that if it is unfair to relegate as fixtures have not been completed, then its not possible to promote as fixtures have not been completed and the same reason (failure to complete fixture) applies in both cases. If you declare LFC as champions and then don't relegate and then don't promote, then the reasoning has been applied unfairly.
Consistency of approach = the greatest level of fairness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say it was fair on anybody. No decision at this point is fair. However I would go for the fairest approaches first and the least fairest last.
Restart the season
Average points if it can't be restarted
No league winner or relegation but sporting merit used to decide on Europe
Void the whole thing - which is apparently off the table considering UEFA's ruling.
posted on 30/4/20
I agree on restarting the season but the av. point thing is totally wrong. Football is not played on paper, as the cliche goes, and to impose notional results on teams to determine their league position is fundamentally wrong and unfair
I think your last 2 are pretty much the same thing. The difference being how the UEFA places are awarded. Sporting merit is very vague.
Sheff Utd have a game in hand which would take them 5th if they won (its vs Villa, so every chance). Where Man City are banned, this would see them in the UCL and that would be an amazing achievement.
I think the decision to void the league is relatively straightforward. Its abandoned so everyone is treated in the same way. Deciding who is put forward for UCL/Europa is a more complex decision which has to be made in any event
posted on 30/4/20
Good debate.
Just shows there is no answer to please everyone.
I still think we all need to stick together on decisions across Europe and as we seem to have pretty much the worse death rate figures albeit on released data we are not in a position at this time to even consider starting again.
Its the summer and I want to be watching cricket but that isn't likely either.
UTV
posted on 30/4/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree on restarting the season but the av. point thing is totally wrong. Football is not played on paper, as the cliche goes, and to impose notional results on teams to determine their league position is fundamentally wrong and unfair
I think your last 2 are pretty much the same thing. The difference being how the UEFA places are awarded. Sporting merit is very vague.
Sheff Utd have a game in hand which would take them 5th if they won (its vs Villa, so every chance). Where Man City are banned, this would see them in the UCL and that would be an amazing achievement.
I think the decision to void the league is relatively straightforward. Its abandoned so everyone is treated in the same way. Deciding who is put forward for UCL/Europa is a more complex decision which has to be made in any event
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The success of bookmakers suggest otherwise.
posted on 30/4/20
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 37 minutes ago
I agree on restarting the season but the av. point thing is totally wrong. Football is not played on paper, as the cliche goes, and to impose notional results on teams to determine their league position is fundamentally wrong and unfair
I think your last 2 are pretty much the same thing. The difference being how the UEFA places are awarded. Sporting merit is very vague.
Sheff Utd have a game in hand which would take them 5th if they won (its vs Villa, so every chance). Where Man City are banned, this would see them in the UCL and that would be an amazing achievement.
I think the decision to void the league is relatively straightforward. Its abandoned so everyone is treated in the same way. Deciding who is put forward for UCL/Europa is a more complex decision which has to be made in any event
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, as I said, I agree it is unfair but I would order fairness as above.
In regards to Europe, you dont get to decide as IEFA has stated it has to be done regarding sporting merit, ie league positions. To get league positions you have to take current standings or in the case that all teams have not played the same amount of games average points. I'm not sure how else you can decide on who enters Europe with sporting merit in mind.
posted on 30/4/20
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
Forget relegation etc, just make sure we give Liverpool the title, that’s the main thing here, feck Leeds and those other clubs vying for promotion, we can just say start afresh next season, but we must make sure we give Liverpool that title at all costs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 30/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/4/20
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
comment by villa1987 (U6870)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
Forget relegation etc, just make sure we give Liverpool the title, that’s the main thing here, feck Leeds and those other clubs vying for promotion, we can just say start afresh next season, but we must make sure we give Liverpool that title at all costs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's two khunts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Says a Leeds fan
posted on 30/4/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/5/20
Do Liverpool want the title, considering it would be a best an honorary title, not a real one. The title goes to the one who at the end of the (full) season is the one who's top. It would almost certainly be Liverpool, but almost is not enough. Wouldn't Liverpool be better off saying they don't want it under these circumstances and they'll come again next year?
posted on 1/5/20
comment by McParlandTheGreat (U6150)
posted 6 hours, 47 minutes ago
Do Liverpool want the title, considering it would be a best an honorary title, not a real one. The title goes to the one who at the end of the (full) season is the one who's top. It would almost certainly be Liverpool, but almost is not enough. Wouldn't Liverpool be better off saying they don't want it under these circumstances and they'll come again next year?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah. We've had the best season in history so far, deserves to be rewarded.
posted on 1/5/20
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 10 hours, 29 minutes ago
comment by villa1987 (U6870)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Geoff Tipps (U1449)
posted 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
Forget relegation etc, just make sure we give Liverpool the title, that’s the main thing here, feck Leeds and those other clubs vying for promotion, we can just say start afresh next season, but we must make sure we give Liverpool that title at all costs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's two khunts on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I beg your pardon?
posted on 1/5/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/5/20
Looks like France ended theirs on average points.
posted on 1/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 8 hours, 12 minutes ago
Looks like France ended theirs on average points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As a Villa fan don't want that. Main reason is that we've played that one game less than most others and a win there would take us clear of the relegation zone. In fact, it's so close down the bottom (Bournemouth would get relegated by a smidgen) then any of these "solutions" would be blatantly unfair, and indeed likely to be challenged in court.
Void the season and start next as it was last summer. It's by far the simplest and fairest. The teams who might get promoted wouldn't be too happy, but you don't gain promotion or suffer relegation in the middle of a season. If the season can't be played out, void it.
They should totally concentrate on how to handle next season.
posted on 1/5/20
Voiding the season would end up with challenges in court also.
Page 5 of 5