Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Naive to say the least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is being discussed all over the western world, and has been at the forefront of public discourse (off and online).
Have you been living under a rock?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but issue has been discussed for ever, most black people I talk to do not believe anything will change, it is an empty gesture. The nice white people are going down on one knee to show solidarity. For most people it is meaningless.
That's what I mean by naive not that people are doing it or that the issue is being talked about but the expectation that any of this will change what happens in the world.
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 26 seconds ago
Kneeling is just the wrong gesture imo. It has so many negative connotations throughout history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point but the symbol of Kappernick is a huge part of the BLM movement.
Can Kiko Casilla take a knee, do you think?
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 9 seconds ago
Kneeling is just the wrong gesture imo. It has so many negative connotations throughout history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to ban kicking in football due to the negative connotations in relation to domestic abuse and animal cruelty.
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Naive to say the least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is being discussed all over the western world, and has been at the forefront of public discourse (off and online).
Have you been living under a rock?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but issue has been discussed for ever, most black people I talk to do not believe anything will change, it is an empty gesture. The nice white people are going down on one knee to show solidarity. For most people it is meaningless.
That's what I mean by naive not that people are doing it or that the issue is being talked about but the expectation that any of this will change what happens in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can anything change when there's such a bleak outlook?
Saying things won't change is a complete cop out and goes against the many times action has led to change.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Seeing John Terry wear a BLM t shirt made a mockery of it all tbh.
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 2 minutes ago
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get why players won't have a choice, but that's just the problem isn't it, they should have the freedom to not to have to and not get accused of being racist by the likes of you. I think kneeling before anything is just the wrong message. Just wear a badge and get on with it.
There is a complete contradiction with being anti-racist and having anything against a benign, peaceful symbol of anti-racism.
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 33 seconds ago
Seeing John Terry wear a BLM t shirt made a mockery of it all tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah see Just Shoot's comment above mine. Exactly that.
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 14 seconds ago
Seeing John Terry wear a BLM t shirt made a mockery of it all tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly he should of been aloud too express his own view and not be forced to be not racist
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Why don't you agree with the BLM movement?
I get why you don't agree with every action and especially the nauseating virtue-signalling from the usual places but the BLM movement itself? Surely not.
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 4 seconds ago
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is what is so bizarre in the current climate. How can not kneeling mean you are racist? Alternatively, if a KKK member kneels, does that mean he isnt racist? Of course not. It's virtue signalling at best. Combating racism has nothing to do with kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if you think it changes nothing that doesn’t change that if you’re anti-racist there is no moral argument for not agreeing with a completely benign and peaceful symbol of anti-racism.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 55 minutes ago
It’s a nice gesture, same could be said for the clap for key works trend that started - my issue is, with a lot of these social media movements is how superficial they are. It turns into a public image exercise when really there needs to be change to the system that is failing us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bang on
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Naive to say the least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is being discussed all over the western world, and has been at the forefront of public discourse (off and online).
Have you been living under a rock?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but issue has been discussed for ever, most black people I talk to do not believe anything will change, it is an empty gesture. The nice white people are going down on one knee to show solidarity. For most people it is meaningless.
That's what I mean by naive not that people are doing it or that the issue is being talked about but the expectation that any of this will change what happens in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just because an issue "has been discussed forever" does not mean the debate ends, or should be forgotten.
Sometimes, there is a defining moment which alters opinions. Recent events in the US may be that catalyst. Future generations (as this is not an issue that can be resolved in the short to medium term) may in turn be better educated.
For example gay rights have been debated ad infinitum for years, and slowly, over many years, attitudes began to change.
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 2 minutes ago
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get why players won't have a choice, but that's just the problem isn't it, they should have the freedom to not to have to and not get accused of being racist by the likes of you. I think kneeling before anything is just the wrong message. Just wear a badge and get on with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if you’re anti-racist why would you not want to partake or agree with a benign and peaceful symbol of anti-racism. Whether it be a badge or a kneel.
I don’t know why being in support of anti-racism is sadly still seen as a taboo, when it’s literally should be a basic human moral right any functioning member of society should be for.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Ireland-Kenya Re... (U3126)
posted 21 minutes ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that players cannot really choose not to do it unless they have a death wish!
Once it’s suggested and the majority agree then any player not doing it is going to be castigated! That’s not a choice.
Personally I would not do it - not because I am racist in any way but because the person who influenced all this was actually killed by an officer on his knee, with it causing his death. I just find it bad taste to be honest.
I’ve also asked a few protesters what they expect to achieve by their protesting. Not one has come back with an answer other than saying sitting at home will change nothing.
My view is that racists (like the prat who keeps popping up on this thread) will not be influenced one iota by the demonstrations, in fact it seems to empower them. What we need is eduction to take the lead in this. Only education will get rid of racism (if we can ever get rid of it completely).
I went to one of the most racially diverse schools in Leeds back in the 60’s/70’s. We had a headmaster and staff who made it their life’s work to teach us respect and to value every person whatever their colour. I taught my lads the same values, even though in York they never really saw any ethnic minorities back in the early 80’s. One is married to a half Iraqi, half English girl. The other lives in Thailand and being a poker player he has mates from everywhere on the planet.
Football can play a big part in educating people about accepting others. If they want to take the knee then it’s up to them.
The basic and fundamental principles of BLM is literally anti-racism though.
How can anything change when there's such a bleak outlook?
Saying things won't change is a complete cop out and goes against the many times action has led to change.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
But in the real world.......
Even if you think it makes no change I really don’t see why you claim you wouldn’t partake in a completely benign and peaceful symbol of anti-racism, if you are anti-racist.
Sign in if you want to comment
Taking a knee
Page 3 of 11
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 18/6/20
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Naive to say the least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is being discussed all over the western world, and has been at the forefront of public discourse (off and online).
Have you been living under a rock?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but issue has been discussed for ever, most black people I talk to do not believe anything will change, it is an empty gesture. The nice white people are going down on one knee to show solidarity. For most people it is meaningless.
That's what I mean by naive not that people are doing it or that the issue is being talked about but the expectation that any of this will change what happens in the world.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 26 seconds ago
Kneeling is just the wrong gesture imo. It has so many negative connotations throughout history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair point but the symbol of Kappernick is a huge part of the BLM movement.
posted on 18/6/20
Can Kiko Casilla take a knee, do you think?
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 9 seconds ago
Kneeling is just the wrong gesture imo. It has so many negative connotations throughout history.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to ban kicking in football due to the negative connotations in relation to domestic abuse and animal cruelty.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Naive to say the least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is being discussed all over the western world, and has been at the forefront of public discourse (off and online).
Have you been living under a rock?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but issue has been discussed for ever, most black people I talk to do not believe anything will change, it is an empty gesture. The nice white people are going down on one knee to show solidarity. For most people it is meaningless.
That's what I mean by naive not that people are doing it or that the issue is being talked about but the expectation that any of this will change what happens in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can anything change when there's such a bleak outlook?
Saying things won't change is a complete cop out and goes against the many times action has led to change.
posted on 18/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/6/20
Seeing John Terry wear a BLM t shirt made a mockery of it all tbh.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 2 minutes ago
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get why players won't have a choice, but that's just the problem isn't it, they should have the freedom to not to have to and not get accused of being racist by the likes of you. I think kneeling before anything is just the wrong message. Just wear a badge and get on with it.
posted on 18/6/20
There is a complete contradiction with being anti-racist and having anything against a benign, peaceful symbol of anti-racism.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 33 seconds ago
Seeing John Terry wear a BLM t shirt made a mockery of it all tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah see Just Shoot's comment above mine. Exactly that.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Flashy flibble (U10324)
posted 14 seconds ago
Seeing John Terry wear a BLM t shirt made a mockery of it all tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
exactly he should of been aloud too express his own view and not be forced to be not racist
posted on 18/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/6/20
Why don't you agree with the BLM movement?
posted on 18/6/20
I get why you don't agree with every action and especially the nauseating virtue-signalling from the usual places but the BLM movement itself? Surely not.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 4 seconds ago
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is what is so bizarre in the current climate. How can not kneeling mean you are racist? Alternatively, if a KKK member kneels, does that mean he isnt racist? Of course not. It's virtue signalling at best. Combating racism has nothing to do with kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if you think it changes nothing that doesn’t change that if you’re anti-racist there is no moral argument for not agreeing with a completely benign and peaceful symbol of anti-racism.
posted on 18/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Sideshow (U11809)
posted 55 minutes ago
It’s a nice gesture, same could be said for the clap for key works trend that started - my issue is, with a lot of these social media movements is how superficial they are. It turns into a public image exercise when really there needs to be change to the system that is failing us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bang on
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 47 seconds ago
comment by Elsbels - OnOnOn (U21658)
posted 1 minute ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Naive to say the least.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is being discussed all over the western world, and has been at the forefront of public discourse (off and online).
Have you been living under a rock?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry but issue has been discussed for ever, most black people I talk to do not believe anything will change, it is an empty gesture. The nice white people are going down on one knee to show solidarity. For most people it is meaningless.
That's what I mean by naive not that people are doing it or that the issue is being talked about but the expectation that any of this will change what happens in the world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just because an issue "has been discussed forever" does not mean the debate ends, or should be forgotten.
Sometimes, there is a defining moment which alters opinions. Recent events in the US may be that catalyst. Future generations (as this is not an issue that can be resolved in the short to medium term) may in turn be better educated.
For example gay rights have been debated ad infinitum for years, and slowly, over many years, attitudes began to change.
posted on 18/6/20
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 2 minutes ago
Interesting that so many are keen to say they aren’t racist and support anti-racism, and either have a problem or say they would not kneel with players to support anti-racism. If you’re truly anti-racist, there is literally no moral objection you could have with the kneeling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get why players won't have a choice, but that's just the problem isn't it, they should have the freedom to not to have to and not get accused of being racist by the likes of you. I think kneeling before anything is just the wrong message. Just wear a badge and get on with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well if you’re anti-racist why would you not want to partake or agree with a benign and peaceful symbol of anti-racism. Whether it be a badge or a kneel.
I don’t know why being in support of anti-racism is sadly still seen as a taboo, when it’s literally should be a basic human moral right any functioning member of society should be for.
posted on 18/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/6/20
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Ireland-Kenya Re... (U3126)
posted 21 minutes ago
The fact that people are engaging/addressing the issue, demonstrates the "taking a knee" gesture is working.
Whether certain individuals chose to partake or not is a personal choice.
If the campaign helps implement change, challenge perceptions/views, then it can't be a bad thing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that players cannot really choose not to do it unless they have a death wish!
Once it’s suggested and the majority agree then any player not doing it is going to be castigated! That’s not a choice.
Personally I would not do it - not because I am racist in any way but because the person who influenced all this was actually killed by an officer on his knee, with it causing his death. I just find it bad taste to be honest.
I’ve also asked a few protesters what they expect to achieve by their protesting. Not one has come back with an answer other than saying sitting at home will change nothing.
My view is that racists (like the prat who keeps popping up on this thread) will not be influenced one iota by the demonstrations, in fact it seems to empower them. What we need is eduction to take the lead in this. Only education will get rid of racism (if we can ever get rid of it completely).
I went to one of the most racially diverse schools in Leeds back in the 60’s/70’s. We had a headmaster and staff who made it their life’s work to teach us respect and to value every person whatever their colour. I taught my lads the same values, even though in York they never really saw any ethnic minorities back in the early 80’s. One is married to a half Iraqi, half English girl. The other lives in Thailand and being a poker player he has mates from everywhere on the planet.
Football can play a big part in educating people about accepting others. If they want to take the knee then it’s up to them.
posted on 18/6/20
The basic and fundamental principles of BLM is literally anti-racism though.
posted on 18/6/20
How can anything change when there's such a bleak outlook?
Saying things won't change is a complete cop out and goes against the many times action has led to change.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
But in the real world.......
posted on 18/6/20
Even if you think it makes no change I really don’t see why you claim you wouldn’t partake in a completely benign and peaceful symbol of anti-racism, if you are anti-racist.
Page 3 of 11
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10