comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
People often talk about the top 6 when having these discussions. They account for juat over a quarter of the total games so the strength of the other 14 teams is actually more significant to the strength of the league. I can't see how anyone can say those 14 are generally weaker than the average. The money the bottom places teams get absolutely shadows the money even top half teams used to get since the new tv deal a few years back. Most teams can afford to buy £20m+ players and therefore can compete for like 98% of the world's players (the top 6 and s fee others having a shot at the top 2% as well).
I accept the top teams haven't fired on all cylinders so it has been a fairly easy ride for us to the title but we have done it while breaking records so not like it's the only reason we've won. Plus as you said, city's final points tally will be a competitive amount so it hasn't been literally handed to us.
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Good point regarding the other 14 teams.
You could conceivably lose all matches against top 6 rivals and win the other 28 against the rest of the league and amass 84 points which in seasons gone by would be enough to win the league.
It was one of the reasons arsenal were top 4 for so long. One thing they done regularly under Wenger was beat the cannon fodder consistently
The league is garbage outside of Liverpool and even they aren’t on the same level as the likes of Bayern, PSG, Juventus etc.
Bayern score 3 or 4 goals a week cos they play in a crap league. I'd like to see them play even a mid table EPL side. They'd get their legs broken in 10 seconds and run off the pitch crying before they even get close to scoring.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man United have all dropped off in recent times. Man United especially look like regaining some momentum, but the facts are clear that the competition is lower between the top teams this season. This has helped let in Leicester and some of the other lesser teams, not to detract from the great jobs they've been doing of course.
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some fans on here want it both ways, they want to spend 11 1/2 months of the year telling the bigger teams how sh!t they currently are - how the mighty are fallen etc. - and then 2 weeks a year arguing that the PL is as strong as it has ever been.
looking at the top 4, city in second have lost 9 times, and 2-4 in the table are likely to end up with c. 30 defeats between them. these are not unique stats, but they are both records over the past 20 years of the PL.
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I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't figure City out this season. Nine league defeats and way off Liverpool. We've managed to beat them three times out of four. But on the occasion they won (OK, we were missing a few players), we were totally outclassed at home and the scoreline could have been embarrassing. Missing Laporte for so long might have made the difference between winning the title and not winning it, for example, but it shouldn't explain such a slump in terms of league form.
I'd still back them to win the CL this year and be very strong next year too.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man United have all dropped off in recent times. Man United especially look like regaining some momentum, but the facts are clear that the competition is lower between the top teams this season. This has helped let in Leicester and some of the other lesser teams, not to detract from the great jobs they've been doing of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
some fans on here want it both ways, they want to spend 11 1/2 months of the year telling the bigger teams how sh!t they currently are - how the mighty are fallen etc. - and then 2 weeks a year arguing that the PL is as strong as it has ever been.
looking at the top 4, city in second have lost 9 times, and 2-4 in the table are likely to end up with c. 30 defeats between them. these are not unique stats, but they are both records over the past 20 years of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't figure City out this season. Nine league defeats and way off Liverpool. We've managed to beat them three times out of four. But on the occasion they won (OK, we were missing a few players), we were totally outclassed at home and the scoreline could have been embarrassing. Missing Laporte for so long might have made the difference between winning the title and not winning it, for example, but it shouldn't explain such a slump in terms of league form.
I'd still back them to win the CL this year and be very strong next year too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the euro ban is upheld then I make them favorite for the league and most likely another domestic treble
You just have to look at the EPL after the restart. They need drinks breaks halfway through the half because they're absolutely dead on their feet from the fast paced, physical, hustle and bustle of the best league in the world. The standard and intensity has been absolutely incredible. Not one defender putting a foot wrong. No easy goals. I am left breathless when watching every game I need to lie down after. I'm panting. I'm wheezing. I'm overawed. I'm screaming! This is why we love the Prem.
I am left breathless when watching every game I need to lie down after. I'm panting. I'm wheezing. I'm overawed. I'm screaming!
______________
I hope you are also self-isolating.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man United have all dropped off in recent times. Man United especially look like regaining some momentum, but the facts are clear that the competition is lower between the top teams this season. This has helped let in Leicester and some of the other lesser teams, not to detract from the great jobs they've been doing of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
some fans on here want it both ways, they want to spend 11 1/2 months of the year telling the bigger teams how sh!t they currently are - how the mighty are fallen etc. - and then 2 weeks a year arguing that the PL is as strong as it has ever been.
looking at the top 4, city in second have lost 9 times, and 2-4 in the table are likely to end up with c. 30 defeats between them. these are not unique stats, but they are both records over the past 20 years of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't figure City out this season. Nine league defeats and way off Liverpool. We've managed to beat them three times out of four. But on the occasion they won (OK, we were missing a few players), we were totally outclassed at home and the scoreline could have been embarrassing. Missing Laporte for so long might have made the difference between winning the title and not winning it, for example, but it shouldn't explain such a slump in terms of league form.
I'd still back them to win the CL this year and be very strong next year too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like in a set of tennis between 2 top players. It can be really tight but then if one player gets a break, they can run away with it 6-2 because the other player realises it's gone and drops off a level. But the set before might have been 6-7 because there was no break so they both had the intensity all set (last season PL) next season could be another tie break season.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i do think city's sh!tness this season maybe colours our perceptions a bit too much, they have had a dreadful falling off - two 100 point seasons, this season they'll be at c. 80-85, more points dropped this season than the last two combined.
but i'd think that leaving them to one side, fans of all the other big clubs would say they are as weak now as they have been for years, or even decades (with the sole exception of a united fan now...if you'd polled us in november you'd obviously have received a very different answer)
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Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
it has been a weak season for the big teams, not necessarily the players at their disposal but the upheaval in management at the same time.
Utd
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
All are going through extensive rebuilding with new or inexperienced managers. It's no wonder that the team with the most stability, least injuries and most experienced manager have won it.
obviously its weaker, making it more competitive aside from liverpool and city who seriously underachieved in the league this year.
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
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Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
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i think losing laporte and sane probably accounted for 10 points or so. they do seem to have been a bit "unlucky" with some things, eg i watched them vs wolves (the 3-2) and couldn't believe that traore got away with the shove for one of their comeback goals.
the knowledgeable city fans will say that generally their levels haven't been too far off previous seasons, but fine margins/the odd wrong decision has seen them suffer. they know a lot more than me, but if you believe in xg stuff at all, this lot have city top of the xp table on 80 points, 10 ahead of liverpool:
https://understat.com/league/EPL
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i think losing laporte and sane probably accounted for 10 points or so. they do seem to have been a bit "unlucky" with some things, eg i watched them vs wolves (the 3-2) and couldn't believe that traore got away with the shove for one of their comeback goals.
the knowledgeable city fans will say that generally their levels haven't been too far off previous seasons, but fine margins/the odd wrong decision has seen them suffer. they know a lot more than me, but if you believe in xg stuff at all, this lot have city top of the xp table on 80 points, 10 ahead of liverpool:
https://understat.com/league/EPL
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We got away with one against them when I think Lamela should have given away a penalty. Something like that. They didn't get the rub of the green against Liverpool either. It must all add up.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i think losing laporte and sane probably accounted for 10 points or so. they do seem to have been a bit "unlucky" with some things, eg i watched them vs wolves (the 3-2) and couldn't believe that traore got away with the shove for one of their comeback goals.
the knowledgeable city fans will say that generally their levels haven't been too far off previous seasons, but fine margins/the odd wrong decision has seen them suffer. they know a lot more than me, but if you believe in xg stuff at all, this lot have city top of the xp table on 80 points, 10 ahead of liverpool:
https://understat.com/league/EPL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who in their right mind believes in this xg nonsense? How can we have 22 point more than we are "meant to" . All I've heard the last 30 years is "it evens out across a season" and now all of a sudden it doesn't?
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
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Yes you were that good to do those things that you should have done more. But didn't.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you were that good to do those things that you should have done more. But didn't.
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So if a team does something incredible it means they are good enough that they should have done better. Literally makes no sense.
It's not like we got to a CL final and then did fack all the season after... that would be bottling it
Cities defeats, Klopp agreed with Pep, they havent played a bad game but have lost so many... They've clearly been unfortunate in a lot but its not all down to luck. The quality of the teams anyone can beat anyone.
Even Norwich, were they not Cities first loss? yet the warning signs were there in the first game of the season vs Liverpool, they lost 4-1? but they looked a threat and caused us a lot of problems.
Lot of the top 6 are in transition sure, but theyve still got some of the most expensive n talented squads ever assembled and on their day beat anyone else in the league.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Paddy's Pub - Home of the original Kitten Mittons (U17162)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think when measuring the strength of a domestic league it's important to take note of the European cup comps too.
This year you can argue the league is strong as English teams are currently doing well in Europe also
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Really?
Spurs dumped out easily by a not great RB Leipzig side.
Chelsea barring a miracle easily dumped out by Bayern.
Liverpool while unlucky at times vs Atletico were well beaten in the end.
Arsenal knocked out of the EL by Olympiakos.
City still have to finish the job vs Real plus Wolves and United are still in the EL but let’s face it a large chunk of teams in that comp aren’t even PL standard.
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You are wrong about not perm standard. Most of the teams remaining are better than the likes of Norwich and Bournemouth imo.
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who in their right mind believes in this xg nonsense? How can we have 22 point more than we are "meant to" . All I've heard the last 30 years is "it evens out across a season" and now all of a sudden it doesn't?
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ok, great, you don't believe in xg or xp at all, glad we cleared that up.
Tbf much as I do feel that the disparity between top and bottom has massively increased in recent years, I don't think the PL has suddenly become weaker this season. And it was only a year ago that 3 of the 4 finalists in the two major European competitions were English. The year before that, we had an all English CL final.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who in their right mind believes in this xg nonsense? How can we have 22 point more than we are "meant to" . All I've heard the last 30 years is "it evens out across a season" and now all of a sudden it doesn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, great, you don't believe in xg or xp at all, glad we cleared that up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you believe in it?
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you were that good to do those things that you should have done more. But didn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if a team does something incredible it means they are good enough that they should have done better. Literally makes no sense.
It's not like we got to a CL final and then did fack all the season after... that would be bottling it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When you have Mourinho it's not called bottling, it's called enduring, or suffering.
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, great, you don't believe in xg or xp at all, glad we cleared that up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you believe in it?
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like all stats it can be useful, without being conclusive or definitive. but for people who don't watch every single 90 minute match played in the PL - and watch them with entirely neutral and unbiased eyes - it can be a way to statistically show what you might otherwise just have a hunch about (how did team x not win that match? team y seems to be getting the rough end of the stick from the refs? team z have picked up points, but they've been a bit lucky etc)
historically it has actually been a very good predictor of future performance - ie teams don't tend to over/underperform their xp significantly over the long term - but it isn't meant to show who "should" have won anything this year. i will say that a lot of pool fans seemed very keen on it when ole had his initial good run of form (and outperformed his xp significantly), but they all seem to have gone quiet on the subject now.
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Is the PL weaker this season
Page 2 of 3
posted on 12/7/20
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 1 minute ago
People often talk about the top 6 when having these discussions. They account for juat over a quarter of the total games so the strength of the other 14 teams is actually more significant to the strength of the league. I can't see how anyone can say those 14 are generally weaker than the average. The money the bottom places teams get absolutely shadows the money even top half teams used to get since the new tv deal a few years back. Most teams can afford to buy £20m+ players and therefore can compete for like 98% of the world's players (the top 6 and s fee others having a shot at the top 2% as well).
I accept the top teams haven't fired on all cylinders so it has been a fairly easy ride for us to the title but we have done it while breaking records so not like it's the only reason we've won. Plus as you said, city's final points tally will be a competitive amount so it hasn't been literally handed to us.
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Good point regarding the other 14 teams.
You could conceivably lose all matches against top 6 rivals and win the other 28 against the rest of the league and amass 84 points which in seasons gone by would be enough to win the league.
It was one of the reasons arsenal were top 4 for so long. One thing they done regularly under Wenger was beat the cannon fodder consistently
posted on 12/7/20
The league is garbage outside of Liverpool and even they aren’t on the same level as the likes of Bayern, PSG, Juventus etc.
posted on 12/7/20
Bayern score 3 or 4 goals a week cos they play in a crap league. I'd like to see them play even a mid table EPL side. They'd get their legs broken in 10 seconds and run off the pitch crying before they even get close to scoring.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man United have all dropped off in recent times. Man United especially look like regaining some momentum, but the facts are clear that the competition is lower between the top teams this season. This has helped let in Leicester and some of the other lesser teams, not to detract from the great jobs they've been doing of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
some fans on here want it both ways, they want to spend 11 1/2 months of the year telling the bigger teams how sh!t they currently are - how the mighty are fallen etc. - and then 2 weeks a year arguing that the PL is as strong as it has ever been.
looking at the top 4, city in second have lost 9 times, and 2-4 in the table are likely to end up with c. 30 defeats between them. these are not unique stats, but they are both records over the past 20 years of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't figure City out this season. Nine league defeats and way off Liverpool. We've managed to beat them three times out of four. But on the occasion they won (OK, we were missing a few players), we were totally outclassed at home and the scoreline could have been embarrassing. Missing Laporte for so long might have made the difference between winning the title and not winning it, for example, but it shouldn't explain such a slump in terms of league form.
I'd still back them to win the CL this year and be very strong next year too.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man United have all dropped off in recent times. Man United especially look like regaining some momentum, but the facts are clear that the competition is lower between the top teams this season. This has helped let in Leicester and some of the other lesser teams, not to detract from the great jobs they've been doing of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
some fans on here want it both ways, they want to spend 11 1/2 months of the year telling the bigger teams how sh!t they currently are - how the mighty are fallen etc. - and then 2 weeks a year arguing that the PL is as strong as it has ever been.
looking at the top 4, city in second have lost 9 times, and 2-4 in the table are likely to end up with c. 30 defeats between them. these are not unique stats, but they are both records over the past 20 years of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't figure City out this season. Nine league defeats and way off Liverpool. We've managed to beat them three times out of four. But on the occasion they won (OK, we were missing a few players), we were totally outclassed at home and the scoreline could have been embarrassing. Missing Laporte for so long might have made the difference between winning the title and not winning it, for example, but it shouldn't explain such a slump in terms of league form.
I'd still back them to win the CL this year and be very strong next year too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the euro ban is upheld then I make them favorite for the league and most likely another domestic treble
posted on 12/7/20
You just have to look at the EPL after the restart. They need drinks breaks halfway through the half because they're absolutely dead on their feet from the fast paced, physical, hustle and bustle of the best league in the world. The standard and intensity has been absolutely incredible. Not one defender putting a foot wrong. No easy goals. I am left breathless when watching every game I need to lie down after. I'm panting. I'm wheezing. I'm overawed. I'm screaming! This is why we love the Prem.
posted on 12/7/20
I am left breathless when watching every game I need to lie down after. I'm panting. I'm wheezing. I'm overawed. I'm screaming!
______________
I hope you are also self-isolating.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Man United have all dropped off in recent times. Man United especially look like regaining some momentum, but the facts are clear that the competition is lower between the top teams this season. This has helped let in Leicester and some of the other lesser teams, not to detract from the great jobs they've been doing of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
some fans on here want it both ways, they want to spend 11 1/2 months of the year telling the bigger teams how sh!t they currently are - how the mighty are fallen etc. - and then 2 weeks a year arguing that the PL is as strong as it has ever been.
looking at the top 4, city in second have lost 9 times, and 2-4 in the table are likely to end up with c. 30 defeats between them. these are not unique stats, but they are both records over the past 20 years of the PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't figure City out this season. Nine league defeats and way off Liverpool. We've managed to beat them three times out of four. But on the occasion they won (OK, we were missing a few players), we were totally outclassed at home and the scoreline could have been embarrassing. Missing Laporte for so long might have made the difference between winning the title and not winning it, for example, but it shouldn't explain such a slump in terms of league form.
I'd still back them to win the CL this year and be very strong next year too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like in a set of tennis between 2 top players. It can be really tight but then if one player gets a break, they can run away with it 6-2 because the other player realises it's gone and drops off a level. But the set before might have been 6-7 because there was no break so they both had the intensity all set (last season PL) next season could be another tie break season.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not reading too much into City this season. For me they're still clearly a top team who could even end up winning the CL. A much better team than what they've shown in the league, as demonstrated by the last couple of seasons.
The league should become more competitive at the top next season. United and Chelsea will inevitably be better. I'm expecting the same from Arsenal. Not sure about Spurs. The divide between those top 2 teams and the rest will be shortened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i do think city's sh!tness this season maybe colours our perceptions a bit too much, they have had a dreadful falling off - two 100 point seasons, this season they'll be at c. 80-85, more points dropped this season than the last two combined.
but i'd think that leaving them to one side, fans of all the other big clubs would say they are as weak now as they have been for years, or even decades (with the sole exception of a united fan now...if you'd polled us in november you'd obviously have received a very different answer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
posted on 12/7/20
it has been a weak season for the big teams, not necessarily the players at their disposal but the upheaval in management at the same time.
Utd
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
All are going through extensive rebuilding with new or inexperienced managers. It's no wonder that the team with the most stability, least injuries and most experienced manager have won it.
posted on 12/7/20
obviously its weaker, making it more competitive aside from liverpool and city who seriously underachieved in the league this year.
posted on 12/7/20
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
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Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
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i think losing laporte and sane probably accounted for 10 points or so. they do seem to have been a bit "unlucky" with some things, eg i watched them vs wolves (the 3-2) and couldn't believe that traore got away with the shove for one of their comeback goals.
the knowledgeable city fans will say that generally their levels haven't been too far off previous seasons, but fine margins/the odd wrong decision has seen them suffer. they know a lot more than me, but if you believe in xg stuff at all, this lot have city top of the xp table on 80 points, 10 ahead of liverpool:
https://understat.com/league/EPL
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
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That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
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Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i think losing laporte and sane probably accounted for 10 points or so. they do seem to have been a bit "unlucky" with some things, eg i watched them vs wolves (the 3-2) and couldn't believe that traore got away with the shove for one of their comeback goals.
the knowledgeable city fans will say that generally their levels haven't been too far off previous seasons, but fine margins/the odd wrong decision has seen them suffer. they know a lot more than me, but if you believe in xg stuff at all, this lot have city top of the xp table on 80 points, 10 ahead of liverpool:
https://understat.com/league/EPL
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We got away with one against them when I think Lamela should have given away a penalty. Something like that. They didn't get the rub of the green against Liverpool either. It must all add up.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
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Injury to Laporte didn't help. Lost Arteta as well. Maybe they've been a bit more unlucky in decisions this season too? Don't know if it explains why they've dropped so many points compared to last couple of seasons but I'm guessing it's contributed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i think losing laporte and sane probably accounted for 10 points or so. they do seem to have been a bit "unlucky" with some things, eg i watched them vs wolves (the 3-2) and couldn't believe that traore got away with the shove for one of their comeback goals.
the knowledgeable city fans will say that generally their levels haven't been too far off previous seasons, but fine margins/the odd wrong decision has seen them suffer. they know a lot more than me, but if you believe in xg stuff at all, this lot have city top of the xp table on 80 points, 10 ahead of liverpool:
https://understat.com/league/EPL
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Who in their right mind believes in this xg nonsense? How can we have 22 point more than we are "meant to" . All I've heard the last 30 years is "it evens out across a season" and now all of a sudden it doesn't?
posted on 12/7/20
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
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Yes you were that good to do those things that you should have done more. But didn't.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you were that good to do those things that you should have done more. But didn't.
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So if a team does something incredible it means they are good enough that they should have done better. Literally makes no sense.
It's not like we got to a CL final and then did fack all the season after... that would be bottling it
posted on 12/7/20
Cities defeats, Klopp agreed with Pep, they havent played a bad game but have lost so many... They've clearly been unfortunate in a lot but its not all down to luck. The quality of the teams anyone can beat anyone.
Even Norwich, were they not Cities first loss? yet the warning signs were there in the first game of the season vs Liverpool, they lost 4-1? but they looked a threat and caused us a lot of problems.
Lot of the top 6 are in transition sure, but theyve still got some of the most expensive n talented squads ever assembled and on their day beat anyone else in the league.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Paddy's Pub - Home of the original Kitten Mittons (U17162)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think when measuring the strength of a domestic league it's important to take note of the European cup comps too.
This year you can argue the league is strong as English teams are currently doing well in Europe also
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Really?
Spurs dumped out easily by a not great RB Leipzig side.
Chelsea barring a miracle easily dumped out by Bayern.
Liverpool while unlucky at times vs Atletico were well beaten in the end.
Arsenal knocked out of the EL by Olympiakos.
City still have to finish the job vs Real plus Wolves and United are still in the EL but let’s face it a large chunk of teams in that comp aren’t even PL standard.
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You are wrong about not perm standard. Most of the teams remaining are better than the likes of Norwich and Bournemouth imo.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
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Who in their right mind believes in this xg nonsense? How can we have 22 point more than we are "meant to" . All I've heard the last 30 years is "it evens out across a season" and now all of a sudden it doesn't?
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ok, great, you don't believe in xg or xp at all, glad we cleared that up.
posted on 12/7/20
Tbf much as I do feel that the disparity between top and bottom has massively increased in recent years, I don't think the PL has suddenly become weaker this season. And it was only a year ago that 3 of the 4 finalists in the two major European competitions were English. The year before that, we had an all English CL final.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
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Who in their right mind believes in this xg nonsense? How can we have 22 point more than we are "meant to" . All I've heard the last 30 years is "it evens out across a season" and now all of a sudden it doesn't?
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ok, great, you don't believe in xg or xp at all, glad we cleared that up.
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Do you believe in it?
posted on 12/7/20
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You could even argue that Liverpool will go down as the biggest bottlers in the league this season. They had the record points total in their hands, the most wins in a season, longest unbeaten run. They look like they've lost them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just stupid though isn't it. Nobody is going to serious agree with that (you of course don't and are just wumming but I'll ignore that for a second). Earliest ever winners. First to 30 wins. Extended the home win record some obscene amount. Literally the opposite of bottling it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes you were that good to do those things that you should have done more. But didn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So if a team does something incredible it means they are good enough that they should have done better. Literally makes no sense.
It's not like we got to a CL final and then did fack all the season after... that would be bottling it
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When you have Mourinho it's not called bottling, it's called enduring, or suffering.
posted on 12/7/20
comment by KingKenny (U1961)
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ok, great, you don't believe in xg or xp at all, glad we cleared that up.
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Do you believe in it?
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like all stats it can be useful, without being conclusive or definitive. but for people who don't watch every single 90 minute match played in the PL - and watch them with entirely neutral and unbiased eyes - it can be a way to statistically show what you might otherwise just have a hunch about (how did team x not win that match? team y seems to be getting the rough end of the stick from the refs? team z have picked up points, but they've been a bit lucky etc)
historically it has actually been a very good predictor of future performance - ie teams don't tend to over/underperform their xp significantly over the long term - but it isn't meant to show who "should" have won anything this year. i will say that a lot of pool fans seemed very keen on it when ole had his initial good run of form (and outperformed his xp significantly), but they all seem to have gone quiet on the subject now.
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