Any idea when the full review comes out, melts? I’m more interested in what the time barred charges were.
It doesn’t help when you have people like Klopp saying things like he did in his press conference Ripley, it just feeds the false narratives even more.
The real story now should be how could Uefa really feel justified in giving the sentence they did and how could they be so incompetent as to ignore their own regulations, particularly after being pulled up for doing it at CAS already. Not only that but in terms of he evidence being not established, I’ve thought all along they must have had more than just hacked emails from within a thread (but not the whole thread...). I’m now wondering if they really did just have that all along.
It is that incompetent on their part that i wouldn’t be surprised if there’s been counter motives going on all the way through this as they must have known it would have gone how it did at CAS. There’s certainly been a lot of questionable things throughout, to say the least.
It’ll be interesting to read the full CAS verdict though as I’m reserving full judgment on a few things until then.
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Any idea when the full review comes out, melts? I’m more interested in what the time barred charges were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A few days. They’ll be the same as the other charges mainly but also the inflated sponsorship of Aabar would come under that. One thing that seems to have been missed is that we were sanctioned for that the first time round though for not declaring it a related party transaction.
I don’t really understand why they are trying to charge you again then. I get the issue with Mansour funding Etihad, it they thought they had enough evidence, but that seems to have been thrown out.
It does make sense why City have been so uncooperative with them, though. If there’s been a lack of due process.
Well that’s the other bit too with the fine about us not complying with the investigation. Absolutely, we’ve publicly said we weren’t from the beginning, it’s hardly a surprise that one has been upheld!
What will be interesting is where do Uefa go from here. They have to make their adjudicatory chambers more independent for a start, but whether they will or not remains to be seen. Ultimately, they get no punishment for their actions aside from the bad press, something that we’ve had even more of anyway.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Ireland-Kenya Relations Secretary (U3126)
posted 34 minutes ago
I think the CAS judgement, and the spiralling costs associated with elite football, demonstrate the current system is not sustainable.
FFP was in principle a good idea. But as Uefa is member led, FFP has been tailored to accommodate/protect the top clubs.
I'd love to see something like a US model (including salary caps, and entry draft) being implemented. But that's simply never happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It happens in Rugby with a spending cap and clubs still try to get round it. They always have even when it was an amateur sport the chairman used to employ players in his business as PR men.
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 10 minutes ago
Thanks Naby, and thanks also for genuinely engaging and responding to my questions with good intentions, as opposed to the one sentence soundbite that so many others have chosen to adopt.
There is the technical aspect - the time barring aspect, and to be fair, city fans ignoring this aspect would be just as frustrating for opposition fans to read as it is hearing opposition fans focus ONLY on the time barring aspect.
Equally, it is frustrating to me to hear posters misrepresent the actual reason why City were fined 10 million euros.
No one, not a single poster, made any reference to this breach of rules - not complying with an investigation - until the fine itself was announced yesterday - and even then they are saying that this means City are guilty. That is simply a misrepresentation of the fine itself.
Everyone prior to the announcement (rightly) focused on the actual charge itself.
So many people since the announcement seem to have forgotten or ignored the actual charge itself. Instead focused on a fine (not relating to the charge) or the time barring (Insinuating that City got off on a technicality).
Not one person on this thread (or many others) have actually stated what CAS said in their very brief statement in regards to the charge itself.
And that is frustrating.
Melton said it yesterday. Too many are creating a narrative that is simply untrue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the full review will help, those genuinely interested can read the views of court.
I think the narrative is being twisted slightly. Lots of headlines that yesterday was a bad day for FFP and fundamentally that's absolutely right. Whether you look at it from the UEFA perspective or City's - FFP is not the winner here. UEFA pursued a high profile case with a heavy punishment in the name of FFP and couldn't make it stick at CAS. Not even a reduction.
However, when the narrative of bad day for FFP is given it seems to be interpreted as 'City got away with it'. The reality (imo) is that interpretation is irrelevant, UEFA can't pursue a case like this and it be thrown out without consequence of process and regulation review.
I think your comment on focus/ignoring the time barring is probably spot on. It serves to reinforce whatever view already exists.
Melton, yeah I surprised by Klopp’s comments. “A bad day for football” was an especially misguided comment. One that has so many connotations, none of which are favourable to the due process that was undertaken.
I’ve read a few comments from opposition fans that have said that if this was another club, then City fans would be reacting the same way as they are.
Well I’d like to say, if it was their club upon which the allegations were made...
Came from a person who hacked emails. Is currently under house arrest, tried to blackmail their club, their club defended itself, took it further, and had the accusation itself thrown out...
Only to then here opposition fans continue to say well you’re clearly guilty.
How would they react?
City have been cleared. The ban overturned.
Yet in their minds City are still guilty.
In this thread alone, one Liverpool poster even had the temerity to say he didn’t care about what CAS said, all he cared about was his own opinion that City are guilty, despite what actually happened yesterday.
And despite what actually happened yesterday, it is, in Klopp’s words, a bad day for football.
Now, why are they adamant about that?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 minutes ago
Well that’s the other bit too with the fine about us not complying with the investigation. Absolutely, we’ve publicly said we weren’t from the beginning, it’s hardly a surprise that one has been upheld!
What will be interesting is where do Uefa go from here. They have to make their adjudicatory chambers more independent for a start, but whether they will or not remains to be seen. Ultimately, they get no punishment for their actions aside from the bad press, something that we’ve had even more of anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
melts, yeah I agree with that.
What’s more is that so many people seem to be misunderstanding what the issues are here.
I’ve seen so many people, including people in the game, talking how this is the end of FFP, it’s not fit for purpose etc.
FFP - as a process - isn’t on trial here. It’s not going to change because City’s ban was overturned.
It was only a bad day for ffp due to the false narrative being set on it though.
If you flip it round, the fact that CAS has found that we weren’t disguising owner investment as sponsorship, and so adhering to the rules set in ffp, then it shows the regulations are doing what they should do and clubs are abiding to it.
The insinuation instead seems to be its not actually adherence that was wanted if not...
Naby
It doesn’t have to be about FFP failing though.
If anything, it has to be about UEFA not adhering to their own regulations regarding FFP, but that’s about it.
FFP doesnt have to fail because of this.
That that is being focused on creates yet another false narrative. City weren’t taking on FFP. City were defending themselves against allegations that they had thwarted FFP. Defending themselves by saying actually we haven’t. They stated, quite clearly, that the hacked emails were taken out of context, and they argued that successfully at CAS. CAS responded by throwing that accusation out. It had no merit. That’s why City got the ban overturned.
If City aren't guilty, why are they happy to pay the fine?
Clearly if City aren't guilty, then they shouldn't be banned and shouldn't be fined?
They have been fined because the FFP are unable to match City's lawyers and take City to an endless court cases that drag on. City know that.
Chelsea circumvented their ban by buying a year earlier and taking the ban.
Both clubs are disgraceful, and owned by Foreign bunch who are with very shady dealings.
If the FFP had any guile and power, City would be banned.
Instead the FFP is a basket case and a laughing stock.
Today was the end of FFP
RIP FFP
“I’ve read a few comments from opposition fans that have said that if this was another club, then City fans would be reacting the same way as they are.“
Let’s be honest. anyone that says something like that is a partisan moron incapable of independent thought that thinks everyone else is as big a moron as they are.
Haha, succinctly put Melton!
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 32 seconds ago
If City aren't guilty, why are they happy to pay the fine?
Clearly if City aren't guilty, then they shouldn't be banned and shouldn't be fined?
They have been fined because the FFP are unable to match City's lawyers and take City to an endless court cases that drag on. City know that.
Chelsea circumvented their ban by buying a year earlier and taking the ban.
Both clubs are disgraceful, and owned by Foreign bunch who are with very shady dealings.
If the FFP had any guile and power, City would be banned.
Instead the FFP is a basket case and a laughing stock.
Today was the end of FFP
RIP FFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you dim?
City were fined for 'not being helpful' in what was a flawed investigation, there were not fined for breaking the rules.
I imagine City aren't happy about the fine, same as the fans.
Oh ffs
MoreSpurs, read the thread.
The reason why City were fined has been discussed at depth.
If the police wrongly raided and trashed my house looking for armed criminals would you expect me to make them all a cup of tea and a bacon butty?
Most honest opinion I heard came from the most unlikely place. Neville on Sky about nailed it.
Mourinho’s comments have been the worst. Can’t say I’m surprised.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 18 minutes ago
“I’ve read a few comments from opposition fans that have said that if this was another club, then City fans would be reacting the same way as they are.“
Let’s be honest. anyone that says something like that is a partisan moron incapable of independent thought that thinks everyone else is as big a moron as they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This maybe true Melton, but I suspect it’s not based on you.
How so? He's only saying what most people think.
We all know they're guilty as sin. They've got away with it on a technicality, and by obstructing the investigation. It is a farce.
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 16 minutes ago
Naby
It doesn’t have to be about FFP failing though.
If anything, it has to be about UEFA not adhering to their own regulations regarding FFP, but that’s about it.
FFP doesnt have to fail because of this.
That that is being focused on creates yet another false narrative. City weren’t taking on FFP. City were defending themselves against allegations that they had thwarted FFP. Defending themselves by saying actually we haven’t. They stated, quite clearly, that the hacked emails were taken out of context, and they argued that successfully at CAS. CAS responded by throwing that accusation out. It had no merit. That’s why City got the ban overturned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn’t say FFP would fail and don’t believe it will. But it should certainly be reviewed in terms of process and, if necessary, restate objective and expectation.
UEFA have had a major club refuse to deal with them because of mistrust and their highest profile case (in terms of punishment) get overturned. It was absolutely a bad day for FFP, just as it was when PSG and Milan went to CAS to appeal.
Something is fundamentally wrong when the governing body tries to enforce its own rules and ends up on the wrong end of several court rulings. That’s why I say the narrative is being twisted.
How so? He's only saying what most people think.
———
That’s the issue, and Mourinho’s smarter than most people, but he’ll never let an opportunity to have a moan go.
He’s getting hung up on the fine and calling it a disgrace. His comments read like morespurs last post.
Bales,
Again you’re wrong and creating a false narrative. City right from the outset said that the process was flawed, and they would take it to independent arbitration at “the earliest opportunity”
Which they did.
The outcome of which we all heard yesterday.
Guilty as sin? Of what? They were cleared yesterday.
They weren't proven innocent. They were found guilty of obstructing the investigation.
The ban was overturned on a technicality.
Sign in if you want to comment
Hateful 8
Page 4 of 11
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 14/7/20
Any idea when the full review comes out, melts? I’m more interested in what the time barred charges were.
posted on 14/7/20
It doesn’t help when you have people like Klopp saying things like he did in his press conference Ripley, it just feeds the false narratives even more.
The real story now should be how could Uefa really feel justified in giving the sentence they did and how could they be so incompetent as to ignore their own regulations, particularly after being pulled up for doing it at CAS already. Not only that but in terms of he evidence being not established, I’ve thought all along they must have had more than just hacked emails from within a thread (but not the whole thread...). I’m now wondering if they really did just have that all along.
It is that incompetent on their part that i wouldn’t be surprised if there’s been counter motives going on all the way through this as they must have known it would have gone how it did at CAS. There’s certainly been a lot of questionable things throughout, to say the least.
It’ll be interesting to read the full CAS verdict though as I’m reserving full judgment on a few things until then.
posted on 14/7/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Any idea when the full review comes out, melts? I’m more interested in what the time barred charges were.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A few days. They’ll be the same as the other charges mainly but also the inflated sponsorship of Aabar would come under that. One thing that seems to have been missed is that we were sanctioned for that the first time round though for not declaring it a related party transaction.
posted on 14/7/20
I don’t really understand why they are trying to charge you again then. I get the issue with Mansour funding Etihad, it they thought they had enough evidence, but that seems to have been thrown out.
It does make sense why City have been so uncooperative with them, though. If there’s been a lack of due process.
posted on 14/7/20
Well that’s the other bit too with the fine about us not complying with the investigation. Absolutely, we’ve publicly said we weren’t from the beginning, it’s hardly a surprise that one has been upheld!
What will be interesting is where do Uefa go from here. They have to make their adjudicatory chambers more independent for a start, but whether they will or not remains to be seen. Ultimately, they get no punishment for their actions aside from the bad press, something that we’ve had even more of anyway.
posted on 14/7/20
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Ireland-Kenya Relations Secretary (U3126)
posted 34 minutes ago
I think the CAS judgement, and the spiralling costs associated with elite football, demonstrate the current system is not sustainable.
FFP was in principle a good idea. But as Uefa is member led, FFP has been tailored to accommodate/protect the top clubs.
I'd love to see something like a US model (including salary caps, and entry draft) being implemented. But that's simply never happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It happens in Rugby with a spending cap and clubs still try to get round it. They always have even when it was an amateur sport the chairman used to employ players in his business as PR men.
posted on 14/7/20
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 10 minutes ago
Thanks Naby, and thanks also for genuinely engaging and responding to my questions with good intentions, as opposed to the one sentence soundbite that so many others have chosen to adopt.
There is the technical aspect - the time barring aspect, and to be fair, city fans ignoring this aspect would be just as frustrating for opposition fans to read as it is hearing opposition fans focus ONLY on the time barring aspect.
Equally, it is frustrating to me to hear posters misrepresent the actual reason why City were fined 10 million euros.
No one, not a single poster, made any reference to this breach of rules - not complying with an investigation - until the fine itself was announced yesterday - and even then they are saying that this means City are guilty. That is simply a misrepresentation of the fine itself.
Everyone prior to the announcement (rightly) focused on the actual charge itself.
So many people since the announcement seem to have forgotten or ignored the actual charge itself. Instead focused on a fine (not relating to the charge) or the time barring (Insinuating that City got off on a technicality).
Not one person on this thread (or many others) have actually stated what CAS said in their very brief statement in regards to the charge itself.
And that is frustrating.
Melton said it yesterday. Too many are creating a narrative that is simply untrue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the full review will help, those genuinely interested can read the views of court.
I think the narrative is being twisted slightly. Lots of headlines that yesterday was a bad day for FFP and fundamentally that's absolutely right. Whether you look at it from the UEFA perspective or City's - FFP is not the winner here. UEFA pursued a high profile case with a heavy punishment in the name of FFP and couldn't make it stick at CAS. Not even a reduction.
However, when the narrative of bad day for FFP is given it seems to be interpreted as 'City got away with it'. The reality (imo) is that interpretation is irrelevant, UEFA can't pursue a case like this and it be thrown out without consequence of process and regulation review.
I think your comment on focus/ignoring the time barring is probably spot on. It serves to reinforce whatever view already exists.
posted on 14/7/20
Melton, yeah I surprised by Klopp’s comments. “A bad day for football” was an especially misguided comment. One that has so many connotations, none of which are favourable to the due process that was undertaken.
I’ve read a few comments from opposition fans that have said that if this was another club, then City fans would be reacting the same way as they are.
Well I’d like to say, if it was their club upon which the allegations were made...
Came from a person who hacked emails. Is currently under house arrest, tried to blackmail their club, their club defended itself, took it further, and had the accusation itself thrown out...
Only to then here opposition fans continue to say well you’re clearly guilty.
How would they react?
City have been cleared. The ban overturned.
Yet in their minds City are still guilty.
In this thread alone, one Liverpool poster even had the temerity to say he didn’t care about what CAS said, all he cared about was his own opinion that City are guilty, despite what actually happened yesterday.
And despite what actually happened yesterday, it is, in Klopp’s words, a bad day for football.
Now, why are they adamant about that?
posted on 14/7/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 5 minutes ago
Well that’s the other bit too with the fine about us not complying with the investigation. Absolutely, we’ve publicly said we weren’t from the beginning, it’s hardly a surprise that one has been upheld!
What will be interesting is where do Uefa go from here. They have to make their adjudicatory chambers more independent for a start, but whether they will or not remains to be seen. Ultimately, they get no punishment for their actions aside from the bad press, something that we’ve had even more of anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
melts, yeah I agree with that.
What’s more is that so many people seem to be misunderstanding what the issues are here.
I’ve seen so many people, including people in the game, talking how this is the end of FFP, it’s not fit for purpose etc.
FFP - as a process - isn’t on trial here. It’s not going to change because City’s ban was overturned.
posted on 14/7/20
It was only a bad day for ffp due to the false narrative being set on it though.
If you flip it round, the fact that CAS has found that we weren’t disguising owner investment as sponsorship, and so adhering to the rules set in ffp, then it shows the regulations are doing what they should do and clubs are abiding to it.
The insinuation instead seems to be its not actually adherence that was wanted if not...
posted on 14/7/20
Naby
It doesn’t have to be about FFP failing though.
If anything, it has to be about UEFA not adhering to their own regulations regarding FFP, but that’s about it.
FFP doesnt have to fail because of this.
That that is being focused on creates yet another false narrative. City weren’t taking on FFP. City were defending themselves against allegations that they had thwarted FFP. Defending themselves by saying actually we haven’t. They stated, quite clearly, that the hacked emails were taken out of context, and they argued that successfully at CAS. CAS responded by throwing that accusation out. It had no merit. That’s why City got the ban overturned.
posted on 14/7/20
If City aren't guilty, why are they happy to pay the fine?
Clearly if City aren't guilty, then they shouldn't be banned and shouldn't be fined?
They have been fined because the FFP are unable to match City's lawyers and take City to an endless court cases that drag on. City know that.
Chelsea circumvented their ban by buying a year earlier and taking the ban.
Both clubs are disgraceful, and owned by Foreign bunch who are with very shady dealings.
If the FFP had any guile and power, City would be banned.
Instead the FFP is a basket case and a laughing stock.
Today was the end of FFP
RIP FFP
posted on 14/7/20
“I’ve read a few comments from opposition fans that have said that if this was another club, then City fans would be reacting the same way as they are.“
Let’s be honest. anyone that says something like that is a partisan moron incapable of independent thought that thinks everyone else is as big a moron as they are.
posted on 14/7/20
Haha, succinctly put Melton!
posted on 14/7/20
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 32 seconds ago
If City aren't guilty, why are they happy to pay the fine?
Clearly if City aren't guilty, then they shouldn't be banned and shouldn't be fined?
They have been fined because the FFP are unable to match City's lawyers and take City to an endless court cases that drag on. City know that.
Chelsea circumvented their ban by buying a year earlier and taking the ban.
Both clubs are disgraceful, and owned by Foreign bunch who are with very shady dealings.
If the FFP had any guile and power, City would be banned.
Instead the FFP is a basket case and a laughing stock.
Today was the end of FFP
RIP FFP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you dim?
City were fined for 'not being helpful' in what was a flawed investigation, there were not fined for breaking the rules.
I imagine City aren't happy about the fine, same as the fans.
posted on 14/7/20
Oh ffs
MoreSpurs, read the thread.
The reason why City were fined has been discussed at depth.
posted on 14/7/20
If the police wrongly raided and trashed my house looking for armed criminals would you expect me to make them all a cup of tea and a bacon butty?
posted on 14/7/20
Most honest opinion I heard came from the most unlikely place. Neville on Sky about nailed it.
posted on 14/7/20
Mourinho’s comments have been the worst. Can’t say I’m surprised.
posted on 14/7/20
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 18 minutes ago
“I’ve read a few comments from opposition fans that have said that if this was another club, then City fans would be reacting the same way as they are.“
Let’s be honest. anyone that says something like that is a partisan moron incapable of independent thought that thinks everyone else is as big a moron as they are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This maybe true Melton, but I suspect it’s not based on you.
posted on 14/7/20
How so? He's only saying what most people think.
We all know they're guilty as sin. They've got away with it on a technicality, and by obstructing the investigation. It is a farce.
posted on 14/7/20
comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 16 minutes ago
Naby
It doesn’t have to be about FFP failing though.
If anything, it has to be about UEFA not adhering to their own regulations regarding FFP, but that’s about it.
FFP doesnt have to fail because of this.
That that is being focused on creates yet another false narrative. City weren’t taking on FFP. City were defending themselves against allegations that they had thwarted FFP. Defending themselves by saying actually we haven’t. They stated, quite clearly, that the hacked emails were taken out of context, and they argued that successfully at CAS. CAS responded by throwing that accusation out. It had no merit. That’s why City got the ban overturned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn’t say FFP would fail and don’t believe it will. But it should certainly be reviewed in terms of process and, if necessary, restate objective and expectation.
UEFA have had a major club refuse to deal with them because of mistrust and their highest profile case (in terms of punishment) get overturned. It was absolutely a bad day for FFP, just as it was when PSG and Milan went to CAS to appeal.
Something is fundamentally wrong when the governing body tries to enforce its own rules and ends up on the wrong end of several court rulings. That’s why I say the narrative is being twisted.
posted on 14/7/20
How so? He's only saying what most people think.
———
That’s the issue, and Mourinho’s smarter than most people, but he’ll never let an opportunity to have a moan go.
He’s getting hung up on the fine and calling it a disgrace. His comments read like morespurs last post.
posted on 14/7/20
Bales,
Again you’re wrong and creating a false narrative. City right from the outset said that the process was flawed, and they would take it to independent arbitration at “the earliest opportunity”
Which they did.
The outcome of which we all heard yesterday.
Guilty as sin? Of what? They were cleared yesterday.
posted on 14/7/20
They weren't proven innocent. They were found guilty of obstructing the investigation.
The ban was overturned on a technicality.
Page 4 of 11
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10