I think it's more difficult for centre backs now. Most are playing against three forwards and their full backs are often halfway up the pitch, playing like wingers.
I understand what a lot of you are saying regarding how the game has changed and how the role of a CB has evolved but some of the basics still remain.
Getting goal side, staying tight to your man, getting your head on the ball, not giving away cheap penalties etc. Most of today's CBs at the top top clubs can't even get these right.
It's easier to get the basics of defending right when your fullbacks are tucked in alongside you and you're only 5-10 yards in front of your penalty area
comment by #TopLad || Sir Alex Ferguson ||✓ (U10161)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
The quality of footballers as a whole has dropped in my opinion. There’s not many elite or world class players around compared to the late 90’s and 00’s. Also the reason why teams like Juve and City are losing to lesser opposition
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nostalgia and the Ronaldo/Messi bias is all this is. There are, and have been an almost endless list of world class players over the last 10 years, Xavi, Iniesta, KDB, Henry, Terry, Lewandowski, Casillas, you could go on and on.
People also see the quite frankly ridiculous standards of Messi and Ronaldo now and think a goal every other game isnt good anymore.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by ttliv87 English, European and World Champions (U11882)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by JHernandezMUFC (U18093)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by #TopLad || Sir Alex Ferguson ||✓ (U10161)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
The quality of footballers as a whole has dropped in my opinion. There’s not many elite or world class players around compared to the late 90’s and 00’s. Also the reason why teams like Juve and City are losing to lesser opposition
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nostalgia and the Ronaldo/Messi bias is all this is. There are, and have been an almost endless list of world class players over the last 10 years, Xavi, Iniesta, KDB, Henry, Terry, Lewandowski, Casillas, you could go on and on.
People also see the quite frankly ridiculous standards of Messi and Ronaldo now and think a goal every other game isnt good anymore.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Casillas, Terry cannot be classed as this decade, their peak was before that in the 00s. Lewandowski, Van Dijk, De Bruyne are the 3 that stick out this generation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's loads more than just those three. Suarez, Aguero, Modric, Neymar, Bale, Hazard etc
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Whether they're past it or not is irrelevant. They're part of the 2010s and were all world class at their peak
Ronaldo and Messi have definitely belittled what other forwards have achieved in the game in the past decade.
Wingers can now score double figures or even 20 per season and people would say he was average. Giggs scored 3 league goals in our Treble winning seasona nd only managed more than 9 in 5 of his 20+ seasons (granted the wing role has changed).
Game is more attack minded, thanks to Pep’s Barca, Messi and Ronaldo’s dominance of what can be achieved.
Defenders are expected to play with the ball too, and the top teams do put a lot of emphasis on that as well as the ability to defend. So the group is narrowed. I don’t know how many defenders of past could keep up with the passing standards of today.
Other factors are, how many good DM’s are there to protect the defence? That goes a long way
Funnily enough NBA has a similar problem. The game has increased its overall scoring, and the defence isn’t as ‘strong’ as it used to be. However when you look at the rules, it favours attack a lot more over the years. This is the same as football, some tackles which were yellow card worthy 10-15 years ago are now red cards.
So defensively you have to be much smarter, covering spaces rather than one on one
I see the yer das are back with nostalgic bias. Is it a thing that when you hit your 30s all of a sudden everything was definitely better 10-15 years ago then it is now?
comment by Bailly_Lindelof_ (U16290)
posted 4 hours, 38 minutes ago
I understand what a lot of you are saying regarding how the game has changed and how the role of a CB has evolved but some of the basics still remain.
Getting goal side, staying tight to your man, getting your head on the ball, not giving away cheap penalties etc. Most of today's CBs at the top top clubs can't even get these right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, but a lot of the top CBs of the past used to make mistakes too, probably just forgotten, nobody is perfect and they all prob had awful form at some point too, its just papered over by time or teams successes etc.
But even still the basics are a lot harder now because theres more runs, more intelligent runs by players who are a lot fitter and faster etc and are not only coached but the science and technology behind it, everythings down to fine detail now at the top end its ridiculous, we've used a sports science team for years now to assist players n staff.
And as 50 said everythings getting worse for the defensive side of the game, they even want to give benefits to attackers for offside even with VAR. Because offside by a toenail or hair isnt fair and we want to see more goals? screw the defensive side, defendings not an art
Its not that there arent world class defenders or other players any more.Its that the world of football has changed and now we have more players across the board of a consistent standard. Footballers are trained more and more as performance athletes and the physical side of the game is far less than it used to be. Tactics in football have also moved on from the old days of 442 for the most part and its a lot more intricate now. As such the top players are not as far above the rest as they once were and tactics are more able to limit their effectiveness.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 10 hours, 16 minutes ago
“ None of the players you’ve listed makes an error leading to a goal every other game”
Lindelof gives away a goal scoring chance away per game I reckon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said
Height is a nice to have for defenders just as you looking handsome is a nice to have fur your bird.
The game has changed, the only position in world football where height is kinda important is goal keeper.
-------------------------
So why are the vast majority of CBs in the game still pushing 6ft? Chances are that being a great defender who is only 5ft 9, will most likely see you played as a DM, not a CB.
Defenders don't make any more mistakes now than they used to. It's an illusion created by modern saturation coverage that highlights every error with a dozen angles in super-slow-mo with studio pundits pointing hyper-analyzing every error.
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 17 hours, 53 minutes ago
I see the yer das are back with nostalgic bias. Is it a thing that when you hit your 30s all of a sudden everything was definitely better 10-15 years ago then it is now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just wait until you have to deal with some spotty 17-year olds in 10 years time claiming that both CR7 and Messi were overrated since the majority of their goals came before the invention of VAR.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure the likes of Cannavaro, Rioand Nesta would seal with it just fine.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure the likes of Cannavaro, Rioand Nesta would seal with it just fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannavaro, Nesta are the type of defenders who modern day defenders base their games on. They were never defend first types. They were very skillful on the ball and their ability read the game was second to none. Its a mistake in the logic of the OP.
The mistakes in the modern game are mostly due to average defenders being asked to do more than just clear the ball on the first sight of danger. To be confident on the ball and have ability to read the game and pass it through narrow channels.
Total agree. Have been saying this for a while. There's definitely not as much individual talent as there used to be. Has nothing to do with nostalgia. The Prems peaks for me was circa 2008ish. There was so much talent then. So many players to pick from. Even on a global scale now. How many top strikers are around now? How many world class wingers? And so forth.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure the likes of Cannavaro, Rioand Nesta would seal with it just fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannavaro, Nesta are the type of defenders who modern day defenders base their games on. They were never defend first types. They were very skillful on the ball and their ability read the game was second to none. Its a mistake in the logic of the OP.
The mistakes in the modern game are mostly due to average defenders being asked to do more than just clear the ball on the first sight of danger. To be confident on the ball and have ability to read the game and pass it through narrow channels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
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Remember when CBs could actually defend?
Page 2 of 2
posted on 16/8/20
I think it's more difficult for centre backs now. Most are playing against three forwards and their full backs are often halfway up the pitch, playing like wingers.
posted on 16/8/20
I understand what a lot of you are saying regarding how the game has changed and how the role of a CB has evolved but some of the basics still remain.
Getting goal side, staying tight to your man, getting your head on the ball, not giving away cheap penalties etc. Most of today's CBs at the top top clubs can't even get these right.
posted on 16/8/20
It's easier to get the basics of defending right when your fullbacks are tucked in alongside you and you're only 5-10 yards in front of your penalty area
posted on 16/8/20
comment by #TopLad || Sir Alex Ferguson ||✓ (U10161)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
The quality of footballers as a whole has dropped in my opinion. There’s not many elite or world class players around compared to the late 90’s and 00’s. Also the reason why teams like Juve and City are losing to lesser opposition
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nostalgia and the Ronaldo/Messi bias is all this is. There are, and have been an almost endless list of world class players over the last 10 years, Xavi, Iniesta, KDB, Henry, Terry, Lewandowski, Casillas, you could go on and on.
People also see the quite frankly ridiculous standards of Messi and Ronaldo now and think a goal every other game isnt good anymore.
posted on 16/8/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/8/20
comment by ttliv87 English, European and World Champions (U11882)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by JHernandezMUFC (U18093)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by #TopLad || Sir Alex Ferguson ||✓ (U10161)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
The quality of footballers as a whole has dropped in my opinion. There’s not many elite or world class players around compared to the late 90’s and 00’s. Also the reason why teams like Juve and City are losing to lesser opposition
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nostalgia and the Ronaldo/Messi bias is all this is. There are, and have been an almost endless list of world class players over the last 10 years, Xavi, Iniesta, KDB, Henry, Terry, Lewandowski, Casillas, you could go on and on.
People also see the quite frankly ridiculous standards of Messi and Ronaldo now and think a goal every other game isnt good anymore.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Casillas, Terry cannot be classed as this decade, their peak was before that in the 00s. Lewandowski, Van Dijk, De Bruyne are the 3 that stick out this generation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's loads more than just those three. Suarez, Aguero, Modric, Neymar, Bale, Hazard etc
posted on 16/8/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/8/20
Whether they're past it or not is irrelevant. They're part of the 2010s and were all world class at their peak
posted on 16/8/20
Ronaldo and Messi have definitely belittled what other forwards have achieved in the game in the past decade.
Wingers can now score double figures or even 20 per season and people would say he was average. Giggs scored 3 league goals in our Treble winning seasona nd only managed more than 9 in 5 of his 20+ seasons (granted the wing role has changed).
posted on 16/8/20
Game is more attack minded, thanks to Pep’s Barca, Messi and Ronaldo’s dominance of what can be achieved.
Defenders are expected to play with the ball too, and the top teams do put a lot of emphasis on that as well as the ability to defend. So the group is narrowed. I don’t know how many defenders of past could keep up with the passing standards of today.
Other factors are, how many good DM’s are there to protect the defence? That goes a long way
posted on 16/8/20
Funnily enough NBA has a similar problem. The game has increased its overall scoring, and the defence isn’t as ‘strong’ as it used to be. However when you look at the rules, it favours attack a lot more over the years. This is the same as football, some tackles which were yellow card worthy 10-15 years ago are now red cards.
So defensively you have to be much smarter, covering spaces rather than one on one
posted on 16/8/20
I see the yer das are back with nostalgic bias. Is it a thing that when you hit your 30s all of a sudden everything was definitely better 10-15 years ago then it is now?
posted on 16/8/20
comment by Bailly_Lindelof_ (U16290)
posted 4 hours, 38 minutes ago
I understand what a lot of you are saying regarding how the game has changed and how the role of a CB has evolved but some of the basics still remain.
Getting goal side, staying tight to your man, getting your head on the ball, not giving away cheap penalties etc. Most of today's CBs at the top top clubs can't even get these right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, but a lot of the top CBs of the past used to make mistakes too, probably just forgotten, nobody is perfect and they all prob had awful form at some point too, its just papered over by time or teams successes etc.
But even still the basics are a lot harder now because theres more runs, more intelligent runs by players who are a lot fitter and faster etc and are not only coached but the science and technology behind it, everythings down to fine detail now at the top end its ridiculous, we've used a sports science team for years now to assist players n staff.
And as 50 said everythings getting worse for the defensive side of the game, they even want to give benefits to attackers for offside even with VAR. Because offside by a toenail or hair isnt fair and we want to see more goals? screw the defensive side, defendings not an art
posted on 16/8/20
Its not that there arent world class defenders or other players any more.Its that the world of football has changed and now we have more players across the board of a consistent standard. Footballers are trained more and more as performance athletes and the physical side of the game is far less than it used to be. Tactics in football have also moved on from the old days of 442 for the most part and its a lot more intricate now. As such the top players are not as far above the rest as they once were and tactics are more able to limit their effectiveness.
posted on 16/8/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 10 hours, 16 minutes ago
“ None of the players you’ve listed makes an error leading to a goal every other game”
Lindelof gives away a goal scoring chance away per game I reckon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said
posted on 16/8/20
Height is a nice to have for defenders just as you looking handsome is a nice to have fur your bird.
The game has changed, the only position in world football where height is kinda important is goal keeper.
-------------------------
So why are the vast majority of CBs in the game still pushing 6ft? Chances are that being a great defender who is only 5ft 9, will most likely see you played as a DM, not a CB.
posted on 16/8/20
Defenders don't make any more mistakes now than they used to. It's an illusion created by modern saturation coverage that highlights every error with a dozen angles in super-slow-mo with studio pundits pointing hyper-analyzing every error.
posted on 17/8/20
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
posted on 17/8/20
comment by Kunta Kante (U1641)
posted 17 hours, 53 minutes ago
I see the yer das are back with nostalgic bias. Is it a thing that when you hit your 30s all of a sudden everything was definitely better 10-15 years ago then it is now?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just wait until you have to deal with some spotty 17-year olds in 10 years time claiming that both CR7 and Messi were overrated since the majority of their goals came before the invention of VAR.
posted on 17/8/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure the likes of Cannavaro, Rioand Nesta would seal with it just fine.
posted on 17/8/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure the likes of Cannavaro, Rioand Nesta would seal with it just fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannavaro, Nesta are the type of defenders who modern day defenders base their games on. They were never defend first types. They were very skillful on the ball and their ability read the game was second to none. Its a mistake in the logic of the OP.
The mistakes in the modern game are mostly due to average defenders being asked to do more than just clear the ball on the first sight of danger. To be confident on the ball and have ability to read the game and pass it through narrow channels.
posted on 17/8/20
Total agree. Have been saying this for a while. There's definitely not as much individual talent as there used to be. Has nothing to do with nostalgia. The Prems peaks for me was circa 2008ish. There was so much talent then. So many players to pick from. Even on a global scale now. How many top strikers are around now? How many world class wingers? And so forth.
posted on 17/8/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 42 minutes ago
What would happen to an 'old style' defender in the modern game? He'd kick it out or give the ball away to a high press and allow the opposing team a clear run on goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure the likes of Cannavaro, Rioand Nesta would seal with it just fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannavaro, Nesta are the type of defenders who modern day defenders base their games on. They were never defend first types. They were very skillful on the ball and their ability read the game was second to none. Its a mistake in the logic of the OP.
The mistakes in the modern game are mostly due to average defenders being asked to do more than just clear the ball on the first sight of danger. To be confident on the ball and have ability to read the game and pass it through narrow channels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This.
Page 2 of 2