comment by Samir (U2630)
This season? If you spend big money on the likes of Sancho, and one or two others, then he has absolutely no excuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. But that has nothing to do with judging him on last season.
Don Draper,
Of course - but I don't think there's enough justification to say he did a great job last season.
He did what was expected of him - to get you back into the Champions League - which is par for the course. Let's not forget how tight it was, though. I personally don't think it should have gone down to the final day against a Leicester team in relegation form.
Ole getting United 3rd place is the equivalent of Wenger regularly getting CL football for us - Arsenal fans used to praise him a lot, but I never understood it. Why? Because that is what he should have been doing anyway. It was the minimum expectation. Same for United last season.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 2 minutes ago
The point is simple - with some of the players you've got, and with the backing Ole's received, you did OK last season. 3rd place is decent, but it's not spectacular (especially given how shiiit the other competitors were). So Ole did an alright job. You should not be finishing 33 points behind the leaders though. And losing 3 semi-finals in a season will understandably be a blemish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Arteta did better than alright?
8th place?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From where he picked us up from, he did a very good job - yes. I don't think you fully understand just how bad the shape of our club was in when he took over. I'd never seen anything like it before.
To get us to win a trophy, win more games, improve our defence, get us playing better football and have some big scalps along the way - when he joined midway through - can only be seen as a positive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Ole picked up United in terrible shape as well.
The FA Cup win is a big bonus but if you're looking at league form it seems laughable you'd conclude that Ole has done an average job yet Arteta has done a very good job.
Winston,
It really isn't that laughable.
Ole had his first full season with you, bringing in Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James. Arteta joined midway through and did not have that luxury (nor are we the financial juggernaut that United are). Ole had the capability to spend £50m-£60m on Bruno Fernandes in the January transfer market when he saw things weren't working out. We had to bring in Pablo Mari and Cedric Soares on loan for cover due to rampant injuries at the back.
As I also said before, the shape your squad was in was much better than ours beforehand when you looked at it man-for-man.
Context is important here too. Ole was the most settled of all 3 managers and was the most familiarised with his group of players compared to Lampard or Arteta.
Samir (U2630)
Yes, I agree that Ole had luxuries that Arteta didn't have.
And Ole finished 3rd whilst Arteta finished 8th.
I'd say that finishing top of the league without City and Liverpool is the best that we could hope for last season.
I'm not saying he's done a brilliant job. I'm saying that I don't see how anyone can conclude Arteta has done a better job than Ole at this stage.
Winston,
If you believe OGS did a better job overall, then that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I'm just stating why I think Arteta was the most impressive out of the 3 in the limited time he's been at the club. Having seen the horrendous shape Emery left us in, Arteta was a godsend in comparison. He made some mistakes, especially at the beginning, but that was surely to be expected considering the hand he was dealt. The improvement has been vast and noticeable, in my opinion.
Yeah probably Arteta thanks to the FA Cup win. I think he will go on to be the better manager of the 3. Poch picked him out as the player he played with who he thought would go on to be a successful manager and I think he'll be proved right.
comment by Winston (U16525)
The FA Cup win is a big bonus but if you're looking at league form it seems laughable you'd conclude that Ole has done an average job yet Arteta has done a very good job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just looking at the PL table since arteta took over, we get this:
Liverpool 20 15 2 3 41:19 47
Man City 20 14 1 5 52:15 43
Man Utd 20 12 5 3 40:14 41
Chelsea 20 10 4 6 36:29 34
Southampton 20 10 4 6 30:23 34
Arsenal 20 9 6 5 32:21 11 33
So over those 20 games united were 3rd (very comfortably), were outscored only by the top 2 (just 1 goal behind liverpool), and had the best defence (over those 20 games chelsea had the worst defence in the top 12).
Over the whole season, united had the 2nd best record vs the big clubs, which does slightly go against the narrative that ole is out of his depth/tactically inept etc.
I think a lot of excuses are made for lampard, he lost hazard, but managed to spend £100m on 2 players during a transfer ban, and brought back to the club at least 3 loan players who would have cost another £100m between them, and who had considerable experience (abraham and mount had both been called up by england, zouma had played more PL games than maguire).
we've heard all season about frank giving youth a chance/what a young team, but on average united have put out a younger 11 than chelsea (and, somewhat predictably, as soon as chelsea had the chance to spend they've gone and done so, so the youth project has stalled already).
Samir (U2630)
I didn't say he did a better job - my honest opinion is that I think it's too soon to judge Arteta alongside Ole and Lampard.
You've noticed the improvement at Arsenal more because you're an Arsenal fan, I'm sure.
But there's not really any credible basis to claim Arteta has done a better job than Ole at this stage, apart from the fact he's won a trophy. And given the importance of CL football these days, to be honest whilst I'd love us to win the FA Cup, I wouldn't exactly be holding it up as the be all and end all.
Winston,
You saying there's no credible basis to claim Arteta has done a better job doesn't mean it's true. In your opinion that's the case. Because you're looking at it solely from a statistical perspective without applying the context and constraints surrounding each club and each manager.
I don't think your assessment is correct.
Me noticing the improvement under Arteta is supported by facts, by the way. It isn't just me saying this because I'm an Arsenal fan - if that were the case, you wouldn't have Spurs fans on this thread praising him.
Samir (U2630)
No, it means that it is my opinion.
But one thing is for sure - you haven't given anything credible to suggest otherwise.
You're entitled to your opinion, also.
Some opinions are more credible than others.
Don Draper,
I honestly believe signing Bruno was the catalyst for your form post-January. If you don't sign Bruno, you don't get top-4 IMO.
I do wonder how well you would have performed for the entire season if you'd got him last Summer though, which is when I think you were meant to get him.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 39 seconds ago
Don Draper,
I honestly believe signing Bruno was the catalyst for your form post-January. If you don't sign Bruno, you don't get top-4 IMO.
I do wonder how well you would have performed for the entire season if you'd got him last Summer though, which is when I think you were meant to get him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the bruno affect is slightly overdone - him arriving also broadly coincided with the return from injury of pogba and rashford, and the rise (helped by him bulking up) of greenwood. in the first half of the season we often had 2, or even 1, real attacking threats - martial or rashford. behind them james/fred/mctominay, none of whom will worry a PL side much.
but if we had signed him last summer, i suspect we'd have made top 4 by 10 points, no problem. even there you can see what a shambles we are at united- OGS wants to play a 4-2-3-1, we spend last summer chasing dybala/eriksen/fernandes, get none of them, leak to the press that we were worried that fernandes gives the ball away too much, and go into the season with lingard/mata/pereira as our no.10 options.
6 months later, with bruno presumably having given the ball away a lot in portugal (and he does so at united too), this appears to be no longer a problem for our scouts, and we sign him for a fee similar to the one we would have paid last summer (and right at the end of the january window too).
it's one reason why i think it's fairer to judge OGS next season, and i agree that he won't have too many excuses left.
But one thing is for sure - you haven't given anything credible to suggest otherwise.
-----
Again - this just isn't correct. You're reading what you want to read.
I've already explained to you why. But if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it, fine.
Our xGA is lower. We kept more clean sheets. Our distance covered improved. Our interceptions and tackling per game improved. Our forced errors improved. Our record against the bigger sides improved.
His win % is also higher than the other managers.
The only area where we fell under Arteta was chance creation - which is something that has to be addressed.
When you apply that to the context of when he took over, the state of Arsenal, that level of progress in all those critical categories, as well as win %, this is MY justification for why I believe Arteta has been more impressive than OGS.
"Our distance covered improved."
Brilliant stuff. I'll leave you to it.
I don't really see why that's funny?
The players weren't running under Emery. Weren't pressing. Weren't closing down. There's been a marked improvement in that regard since he's left.
It's funny because we're discussing Ole vs Arteta as a comparison, not whether Arteta has done a good job.
As I say, I'll leave you to it - clearly your mind is made up.
I think it's a waste of time comparing the two at this stage in all honesty. United are ahead of Arsenal, as you'd expect given the time Ole has had and the budget, and that's really all there is to say on it.
Well, I think it's relevant because I'm of the view that if OGS had taken over Arsenal at that time, he wouldn't have been able to improve in all of those categories the way Arteta has done for us.
Obviously there's no tangible way of proving that, but based on what I've seen from both managers overall, it's what I believe.
Given the squad Arteta inherited and the continued uncertainty over their best player and primary goal threat, I'm not entirely sure what more Arteta could have done in the short time he's had.
Steadied the ship, developed a defined way of playing, got a win % higher than the other two managers being discussed here and won the FA Cup.
Doesn't necessarily mean he'll push on and achieve more next season but it's a pretty good start.
Yeh, I’m going by the optics as well.
3 points behind UTD with a game in hand, but finishes 10 points behind UTD by scrapping 8th spot on the last day.
What I see is Arteta organising well, to the point that Arsenal seem to have adopted ‘Parking the Bus’ as their philosophy.
Sure results went for you, but the plaudits Arsenal received, were the kind usually said of a minnow club getting a big scalp, if that’s Arteta’s tactic to sit low, well ok, good luck with that.
But way to early in all these guys careers, but if I had to guess, I’d say Arteta will have the better opportunities around the world to win silverware, than Frank and Ole I’d suspect.
I like what Arteta is doing tbh. You can see a set style and the attitude looks good from the players. He's making some players play better too and it's interesting that he got Arsenal over the line in the FA cup.
I'd have Lampard next. Lots of injuries, a transfer ban and a keeper he didn't sign that can't jump. Gave us our toughest games laat season and I think their performances were better than there results, certainly in more than a few games I saw anyway.
I'd have Arteta as well but I like what all three have done tbh. All of them inherited problematic situations & all have navigated through them in their own ways quite effectively.
If I had to pick one of them as worse than the other two it would be Solskjaer just because the mechanics of his tactics are a little basic compared to Arteta/Lampard, but he's by no means stupid either. Ironically the more he struggled last year the more I thought of him, it was the year before where he was doing Harry Redknapp inspired/wizard of Oz type of tactical profiling with X amount of players attack with pace & lets see what happens where I saw nothing tangible in him, was only a matter of time before that crashed & burned.
Arteta is the best of the 3 but lampard has done the best job so far
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
The FA Cup win is a big bonus but if you're looking at league form it seems laughable you'd conclude that Ole has done an average job yet Arteta has done a very good job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just looking at the PL table since arteta took over, we get this:
Liverpool 20 15 2 3 41:19 47
Man City 20 14 1 5 52:15 43
Man Utd 20 12 5 3 40:14 41
Chelsea 20 10 4 6 36:29 34
Southampton 20 10 4 6 30:23 34
Arsenal 20 9 6 5 32:21 11 33
So over those 20 games united were 3rd (very comfortably), were outscored only by the top 2 (just 1 goal behind liverpool), and had the best defence (over those 20 games chelsea had the worst defence in the top 12).
Over the whole season, united had the 2nd best record vs the big clubs, which does slightly go against the narrative that ole is out of his depth/tactically inept etc.
I think a lot of excuses are made for lampard, he lost hazard, but managed to spend £100m on 2 players during a transfer ban, and brought back to the club at least 3 loan players who would have cost another £100m between them, and who had considerable experience (abraham and mount had both been called up by england, zouma had played more PL games than maguire).
we've heard all season about frank giving youth a chance/what a young team, but on average united have put out a younger 11 than chelsea (and, somewhat predictably, as soon as chelsea had the chance to spend they've gone and done so, so the youth project has stalled already).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reason Lampard has done so well is because we lost our two best players (hazard and kante through injury for much of the season) it was arguably our worst squad in 20 years, and mount did not play in the men’s senior team till September this season. Abraham’s first competitive match for England was also this season.
Also the youth product has not stalled at all. We’ve given hundreds of minutes this season to young players despite injuries to cho, rlc and pulisic and tomori,
We’re also looking at Havertz who is young and bought young players.
Give your head a wobble
Sign in if you want to comment
Lampard vs Solskjaer vs Arteta
Page 2 of 4
posted on 24/8/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
This season? If you spend big money on the likes of Sancho, and one or two others, then he has absolutely no excuses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. But that has nothing to do with judging him on last season.
posted on 24/8/20
Don Draper,
Of course - but I don't think there's enough justification to say he did a great job last season.
He did what was expected of him - to get you back into the Champions League - which is par for the course. Let's not forget how tight it was, though. I personally don't think it should have gone down to the final day against a Leicester team in relegation form.
Ole getting United 3rd place is the equivalent of Wenger regularly getting CL football for us - Arsenal fans used to praise him a lot, but I never understood it. Why? Because that is what he should have been doing anyway. It was the minimum expectation. Same for United last season.
posted on 24/8/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 2 minutes ago
The point is simple - with some of the players you've got, and with the backing Ole's received, you did OK last season. 3rd place is decent, but it's not spectacular (especially given how shiiit the other competitors were). So Ole did an alright job. You should not be finishing 33 points behind the leaders though. And losing 3 semi-finals in a season will understandably be a blemish.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Arteta did better than alright?
8th place?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From where he picked us up from, he did a very good job - yes. I don't think you fully understand just how bad the shape of our club was in when he took over. I'd never seen anything like it before.
To get us to win a trophy, win more games, improve our defence, get us playing better football and have some big scalps along the way - when he joined midway through - can only be seen as a positive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Ole picked up United in terrible shape as well.
The FA Cup win is a big bonus but if you're looking at league form it seems laughable you'd conclude that Ole has done an average job yet Arteta has done a very good job.
posted on 24/8/20
Winston,
It really isn't that laughable.
Ole had his first full season with you, bringing in Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James. Arteta joined midway through and did not have that luxury (nor are we the financial juggernaut that United are). Ole had the capability to spend £50m-£60m on Bruno Fernandes in the January transfer market when he saw things weren't working out. We had to bring in Pablo Mari and Cedric Soares on loan for cover due to rampant injuries at the back.
As I also said before, the shape your squad was in was much better than ours beforehand when you looked at it man-for-man.
Context is important here too. Ole was the most settled of all 3 managers and was the most familiarised with his group of players compared to Lampard or Arteta.
posted on 24/8/20
Samir (U2630)
Yes, I agree that Ole had luxuries that Arteta didn't have.
And Ole finished 3rd whilst Arteta finished 8th.
I'd say that finishing top of the league without City and Liverpool is the best that we could hope for last season.
I'm not saying he's done a brilliant job. I'm saying that I don't see how anyone can conclude Arteta has done a better job than Ole at this stage.
posted on 24/8/20
Winston,
If you believe OGS did a better job overall, then that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I'm just stating why I think Arteta was the most impressive out of the 3 in the limited time he's been at the club. Having seen the horrendous shape Emery left us in, Arteta was a godsend in comparison. He made some mistakes, especially at the beginning, but that was surely to be expected considering the hand he was dealt. The improvement has been vast and noticeable, in my opinion.
posted on 24/8/20
Yeah probably Arteta thanks to the FA Cup win. I think he will go on to be the better manager of the 3. Poch picked him out as the player he played with who he thought would go on to be a successful manager and I think he'll be proved right.
posted on 24/8/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
The FA Cup win is a big bonus but if you're looking at league form it seems laughable you'd conclude that Ole has done an average job yet Arteta has done a very good job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just looking at the PL table since arteta took over, we get this:
Liverpool 20 15 2 3 41:19 47
Man City 20 14 1 5 52:15 43
Man Utd 20 12 5 3 40:14 41
Chelsea 20 10 4 6 36:29 34
Southampton 20 10 4 6 30:23 34
Arsenal 20 9 6 5 32:21 11 33
So over those 20 games united were 3rd (very comfortably), were outscored only by the top 2 (just 1 goal behind liverpool), and had the best defence (over those 20 games chelsea had the worst defence in the top 12).
Over the whole season, united had the 2nd best record vs the big clubs, which does slightly go against the narrative that ole is out of his depth/tactically inept etc.
I think a lot of excuses are made for lampard, he lost hazard, but managed to spend £100m on 2 players during a transfer ban, and brought back to the club at least 3 loan players who would have cost another £100m between them, and who had considerable experience (abraham and mount had both been called up by england, zouma had played more PL games than maguire).
we've heard all season about frank giving youth a chance/what a young team, but on average united have put out a younger 11 than chelsea (and, somewhat predictably, as soon as chelsea had the chance to spend they've gone and done so, so the youth project has stalled already).
posted on 24/8/20
Samir (U2630)
I didn't say he did a better job - my honest opinion is that I think it's too soon to judge Arteta alongside Ole and Lampard.
You've noticed the improvement at Arsenal more because you're an Arsenal fan, I'm sure.
But there's not really any credible basis to claim Arteta has done a better job than Ole at this stage, apart from the fact he's won a trophy. And given the importance of CL football these days, to be honest whilst I'd love us to win the FA Cup, I wouldn't exactly be holding it up as the be all and end all.
posted on 24/8/20
Winston,
You saying there's no credible basis to claim Arteta has done a better job doesn't mean it's true. In your opinion that's the case. Because you're looking at it solely from a statistical perspective without applying the context and constraints surrounding each club and each manager.
I don't think your assessment is correct.
Me noticing the improvement under Arteta is supported by facts, by the way. It isn't just me saying this because I'm an Arsenal fan - if that were the case, you wouldn't have Spurs fans on this thread praising him.
posted on 24/8/20
Samir (U2630)
No, it means that it is my opinion.
But one thing is for sure - you haven't given anything credible to suggest otherwise.
You're entitled to your opinion, also.
Some opinions are more credible than others.
posted on 24/8/20
Don Draper,
I honestly believe signing Bruno was the catalyst for your form post-January. If you don't sign Bruno, you don't get top-4 IMO.
I do wonder how well you would have performed for the entire season if you'd got him last Summer though, which is when I think you were meant to get him.
posted on 24/8/20
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 39 seconds ago
Don Draper,
I honestly believe signing Bruno was the catalyst for your form post-January. If you don't sign Bruno, you don't get top-4 IMO.
I do wonder how well you would have performed for the entire season if you'd got him last Summer though, which is when I think you were meant to get him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the bruno affect is slightly overdone - him arriving also broadly coincided with the return from injury of pogba and rashford, and the rise (helped by him bulking up) of greenwood. in the first half of the season we often had 2, or even 1, real attacking threats - martial or rashford. behind them james/fred/mctominay, none of whom will worry a PL side much.
but if we had signed him last summer, i suspect we'd have made top 4 by 10 points, no problem. even there you can see what a shambles we are at united- OGS wants to play a 4-2-3-1, we spend last summer chasing dybala/eriksen/fernandes, get none of them, leak to the press that we were worried that fernandes gives the ball away too much, and go into the season with lingard/mata/pereira as our no.10 options.
6 months later, with bruno presumably having given the ball away a lot in portugal (and he does so at united too), this appears to be no longer a problem for our scouts, and we sign him for a fee similar to the one we would have paid last summer (and right at the end of the january window too).
it's one reason why i think it's fairer to judge OGS next season, and i agree that he won't have too many excuses left.
posted on 24/8/20
But one thing is for sure - you haven't given anything credible to suggest otherwise.
-----
Again - this just isn't correct. You're reading what you want to read.
I've already explained to you why. But if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it, fine.
Our xGA is lower. We kept more clean sheets. Our distance covered improved. Our interceptions and tackling per game improved. Our forced errors improved. Our record against the bigger sides improved.
His win % is also higher than the other managers.
The only area where we fell under Arteta was chance creation - which is something that has to be addressed.
When you apply that to the context of when he took over, the state of Arsenal, that level of progress in all those critical categories, as well as win %, this is MY justification for why I believe Arteta has been more impressive than OGS.
posted on 24/8/20
"Our distance covered improved."
Brilliant stuff. I'll leave you to it.
posted on 24/8/20
I don't really see why that's funny?
The players weren't running under Emery. Weren't pressing. Weren't closing down. There's been a marked improvement in that regard since he's left.
posted on 24/8/20
It's funny because we're discussing Ole vs Arteta as a comparison, not whether Arteta has done a good job.
As I say, I'll leave you to it - clearly your mind is made up.
I think it's a waste of time comparing the two at this stage in all honesty. United are ahead of Arsenal, as you'd expect given the time Ole has had and the budget, and that's really all there is to say on it.
posted on 24/8/20
Well, I think it's relevant because I'm of the view that if OGS had taken over Arsenal at that time, he wouldn't have been able to improve in all of those categories the way Arteta has done for us.
Obviously there's no tangible way of proving that, but based on what I've seen from both managers overall, it's what I believe.
posted on 24/8/20
Given the squad Arteta inherited and the continued uncertainty over their best player and primary goal threat, I'm not entirely sure what more Arteta could have done in the short time he's had.
Steadied the ship, developed a defined way of playing, got a win % higher than the other two managers being discussed here and won the FA Cup.
Doesn't necessarily mean he'll push on and achieve more next season but it's a pretty good start.
posted on 24/8/20
Yeh, I’m going by the optics as well.
3 points behind UTD with a game in hand, but finishes 10 points behind UTD by scrapping 8th spot on the last day.
What I see is Arteta organising well, to the point that Arsenal seem to have adopted ‘Parking the Bus’ as their philosophy.
Sure results went for you, but the plaudits Arsenal received, were the kind usually said of a minnow club getting a big scalp, if that’s Arteta’s tactic to sit low, well ok, good luck with that.
But way to early in all these guys careers, but if I had to guess, I’d say Arteta will have the better opportunities around the world to win silverware, than Frank and Ole I’d suspect.
posted on 24/8/20
I like what Arteta is doing tbh. You can see a set style and the attitude looks good from the players. He's making some players play better too and it's interesting that he got Arsenal over the line in the FA cup.
I'd have Lampard next. Lots of injuries, a transfer ban and a keeper he didn't sign that can't jump. Gave us our toughest games laat season and I think their performances were better than there results, certainly in more than a few games I saw anyway.
posted on 24/8/20
Their*
posted on 24/8/20
I'd have Arteta as well but I like what all three have done tbh. All of them inherited problematic situations & all have navigated through them in their own ways quite effectively.
If I had to pick one of them as worse than the other two it would be Solskjaer just because the mechanics of his tactics are a little basic compared to Arteta/Lampard, but he's by no means stupid either. Ironically the more he struggled last year the more I thought of him, it was the year before where he was doing Harry Redknapp inspired/wizard of Oz type of tactical profiling with X amount of players attack with pace & lets see what happens where I saw nothing tangible in him, was only a matter of time before that crashed & burned.
posted on 24/8/20
Arteta is the best of the 3 but lampard has done the best job so far
posted on 24/8/20
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 3 hours, 17 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
The FA Cup win is a big bonus but if you're looking at league form it seems laughable you'd conclude that Ole has done an average job yet Arteta has done a very good job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just looking at the PL table since arteta took over, we get this:
Liverpool 20 15 2 3 41:19 47
Man City 20 14 1 5 52:15 43
Man Utd 20 12 5 3 40:14 41
Chelsea 20 10 4 6 36:29 34
Southampton 20 10 4 6 30:23 34
Arsenal 20 9 6 5 32:21 11 33
So over those 20 games united were 3rd (very comfortably), were outscored only by the top 2 (just 1 goal behind liverpool), and had the best defence (over those 20 games chelsea had the worst defence in the top 12).
Over the whole season, united had the 2nd best record vs the big clubs, which does slightly go against the narrative that ole is out of his depth/tactically inept etc.
I think a lot of excuses are made for lampard, he lost hazard, but managed to spend £100m on 2 players during a transfer ban, and brought back to the club at least 3 loan players who would have cost another £100m between them, and who had considerable experience (abraham and mount had both been called up by england, zouma had played more PL games than maguire).
we've heard all season about frank giving youth a chance/what a young team, but on average united have put out a younger 11 than chelsea (and, somewhat predictably, as soon as chelsea had the chance to spend they've gone and done so, so the youth project has stalled already).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reason Lampard has done so well is because we lost our two best players (hazard and kante through injury for much of the season) it was arguably our worst squad in 20 years, and mount did not play in the men’s senior team till September this season. Abraham’s first competitive match for England was also this season.
Also the youth product has not stalled at all. We’ve given hundreds of minutes this season to young players despite injuries to cho, rlc and pulisic and tomori,
We’re also looking at Havertz who is young and bought young players.
Give your head a wobble
Page 2 of 4