comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 3 minutes ago
Can someone please explain why we've decided to totally tear apart the blueprint from last season? There was no need to try a brand new system and this wasn't the season to start doing tactical experiments.
Also I don't see want to see Havertz starting for us again, he was genuinely awful and offers nothing in an offensive sense. We don't have time to shoehorn him into the side. Play what's familiar and what worked last season. Stop playing partey RB, stop benching Gabriel and use the dynamics from last season that was serving us well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed Samir, surely against Man United we need to play our back 4 we played last season and play Rice, Partey and Odegaard in midfield. Just a question of who plays upfront out of Nketiah, Jesus and Trossard.
I also think Odegaard has dropped a little deeper since Havertz has started games! we Odegaard to play in his best position to get the best out of him.
Play the team that beat United last season with Vieira in for Xhaka
Oh yea and Rice in for Partey
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 minutes ago
Can someone please explain why we've decided to totally tear apart the blueprint from last season? There was no need to try a brand new system and this wasn't the season to start doing tactical experiments.
Also I don't see want to see Havertz starting for us again, he was genuinely awful and offers nothing in an offensive sense. We don't have time to shoehorn him into the side. Play what's familiar and what worked last season. Stop playing partey RB, stop benching Gabriel and use the dynamics from last season that was serving us well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The blueprint is the same. 3 man back line, inverted full back joining the DM, two CM further forward, Saka and Martinelli wide of the striker. Literally the only difference in the "blueprint" is it is the right back who inverts.
As last season, individual errors are gifting goals and making the game hard for us.
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 5 minutes ago
The team does look disjointed but that should be alleviated somewhat with zinchenko returning.
Let's not forget we had good chances to win the game. We are not cutting enough in the final third, that has been our biggest problem this season. Partey is only playing RB because both our inverting fullbacks have been injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensible take
It's funny people are saying arteta has ripped up what we've done last season.
Both our inverting full backs are injured, and we know he wants to play with at least one. Partey is the emergency solution (despite not being great), because classically we've had injuries strike in one exact area of the squad.
The biggest issue for me is arteta is forcing havertz into the LCM area when the area has been clogged with no avenues for efficient build up.
I expect to see this against United
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
I've no idea what he's going to do with havertz, personally, if he has to start I'd like it to be up front. But jesus is returning too.
comment by 50 trust the process (U1147)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 5 minutes ago
The team does look disjointed but that should be alleviated somewhat with zinchenko returning.
Let's not forget we had good chances to win the game. We are not cutting enough in the final third, that has been our biggest problem this season. Partey is only playing RB because both our inverting fullbacks have been injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensible take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timber was brought in as a centre back. Ben white is fit and could have easily played RB
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 7 minutes ago
It's funny people are saying arteta has ripped up what we've done last season.
Both our inverting full backs are injured, and we know he wants to play with at least one. Partey is the emergency solution (despite not being great), because classically we've had injuries strike in one exact area of the squad.
The biggest issue for me is arteta is forcing havertz into the LCM area when the area has been clogged with no avenues for efficient build up.
I expect to see this against United
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
I've no idea what he's going to do with havertz, personally, if he has to start I'd like it to be up front. But jesus is returning too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If he has to start"?
Why does he have to start?
He's been mediocre to poor for 3 games now. No way he should be starting again for a while.
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
The way we build up is different, he's changed personnel, he's playing players in different positions and Martinelli is playing wider. There is more emphasis on control than chance creation. And our LHS dynamics are really poor.
Dropping Gabriel and starting Havertz, when the former has done nothing to warrant being dropped and the latter has done nothing to prove why he should be starting, massively impacts our team dynamics. Partey at RB does not work and I don't see what value he offers playing there because even when he inverts, he doesn't look fully comfortable doing it. This was not a game for Trossard to start up front, either. Why bench Eddie who can stretch defences and play with his back to goal?
Before the second half changes, so many players looked confused as to what areas of the pitch they're meant to be operating in. Fulham took full advantage of this.
Then we have our current mentality and emotional issues because, at home, we still keep doing the same stupid stuff and it keeps costing us. An inquest needs to be done as to why this keeps happening. We always seem to lack emotional control in home games.
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
comment by 50 trust the process (U1147)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 5 minutes ago
The team does look disjointed but that should be alleviated somewhat with zinchenko returning.
Let's not forget we had good chances to win the game. We are not cutting enough in the final third, that has been our biggest problem this season. Partey is only playing RB because both our inverting fullbacks have been injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensible take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timber was brought in as a centre back. Ben white is fit and could have easily played RB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what timber was brought in as. Sure, he can cover saliba there, but I think he was brought in to invert from the right back area.
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
No he has not. Havertz aside, the principles remain the same. Injuries are simply not helping.
He's adding more variety to our game, but it's gonna take a while.
looks like WH are not missing Rice
comment by goonerGunnDog (U7206)
posted 49 seconds ago
looks like WH are not missing Rice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it would be banter if they beat us
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 3 hours, 29 minutes ago
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
No he has not. Havertz aside, the principles remain the same. Injuries are simply not helping.
He's adding more variety to our game, but it's gonna take a while.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way we build up is different and the spaces players are taking up on the pitch are different. The positioning and rotations, and roles of individual players, are not the same as last season. Maybe some of it is due to injuries, but that doesn't explain why he's not giving us the optimal chance of winning.
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
We don't have time for these players to start adapting to new formations and systems. This is the season where we are meant to deliver. This is Mikel's 4th full season with us, we can't go through another transitional phase. It is time to prove whether the 'success' of last season can be built on or whether it won't due to his own decisions. And that's how he will be judged.
Was the team that we witnessed even that bad today? An early mistake and slightly lax defending undid us. Other than that we were in control. But as I said, we do need more cutting edge. And for players to return. We could've scored 3 or 4 today.
I don't see much difference to the way we build up tbh. It's just on a different side. I'm pretty sure he planned to do it with timber, but his injury (and zinchenko's) have forced him to use partey at RB instead.
It's about getting another attacker into the team without sacrificing a defender - it's actually working pretty well imo, but unfortunately the extra attacker is havertz.
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
We play the same system as last season. Playing a flat back 4 with 2 DMs is very far from the way we played last season. In fact it harks back to Artetas first full season, where defence was first and foremost. And against a team sitting back. We wouldn't lay a glove on them. Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard would be swamped.
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
=====
What's the contradiction? That is close to our best XI. Zinchenko and Jesus aren't fully fit which is why I didn't include them. I thought that was obvious. But I suspect you knew that and are trying to be pedantic for the sake of it like you usually do.
Who said we should play a flat back 4 with 2 DMs? You've just made that assumption. We didn't even play like that last season, so I'm not sure why you've come to that conclusion.
We should play the same as we did last season, but with Rice or Partey replacing Xhaka in that 8 role. There's no need for Havertz to be starting, no need for Partey as an inverted RB and no need for Gabriel to be benched.
The reason why I'm frustrated is because this is all self-inflicted. I know we've been unfortunate with injuries to the fullbacks, but that doesn't mean Arteta has to go full on galaxy brain. We still have options that allow us to play in a fluid, coherent way.
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 9 minutes ago
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
=====
What's the contradiction? That is close to our best XI. Zinchenko and Jesus aren't fully fit which is why I didn't include them. I thought that was obvious. But I suspect you knew that and are trying to be pedantic for the sake of it like you usually do.
Who said we should play a flat back 4 with 2 DMs? You've just made that assumption. We didn't even play like that last season, so I'm not sure why you've come to that conclusion.
We should play the same as we did last season, but with Rice or Partey replacing Xhaka in that 8 role. There's no need for Havertz to be starting, no need for Partey as an inverted RB and no need for Gabriel to be benched.
The reason why I'm frustrated is because this is all self-inflicted. I know we've been unfortunate with injuries to the fullbacks, but that doesn't mean Arteta has to go full on galaxy brain. We still have options that allow us to play in a fluid, coherent way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you are going to try and force players into roles that aren't suited to? Pay £105m for a DM and try and force him into an AM role???
I know we didn't play that way last season, that is the contradiction in the two statements. You accuse Arteta of ripping up what he did last season by playing the same system, and then name a team that would be awful at trying to do what he did last season. I say a flat back 4 and 2 DMs because that is what you named. Trying to force players into roles they aren't suitable for doesn't make sense.
Gabriel has been benched because he is not good on the ball. The reason Timber was signed to replace him no doubt. Gabriel, if Timber hadn't been injured, would have been back up to Saliba for the central role of the 3 with White and Timber either side.
Who plays inverted FB if not Partey? Kiwoir? Tomiyasu? Neither are suited to that. Partey, as someone not only experienced at full but more importantly plays in CM where the inverted FB plays most of the game makes perfect sense.
Havertz was literally signed to replace Xhaka. No need for Havertz starting? I think the fact he went all out to sign him suggests the desire is to play him in the role he was signed for instead of forcing a DM into an attacking role. Arteta identified that role as an area to improve and Havertz as a player to do it.
Think it is very strange people want 6 defensive players at home to Forest and Fulham, is a clean sheet more important than a win? Is 0-0 the aim? Maybe there is a case against United, although I think that is giving them the initiative, but against teams who sit back it is ridiculous.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 9 minutes ago
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
=====
What's the contradiction? That is close to our best XI. Zinchenko and Jesus aren't fully fit which is why I didn't include them. I thought that was obvious. But I suspect you knew that and are trying to be pedantic for the sake of it like you usually do.
Who said we should play a flat back 4 with 2 DMs? You've just made that assumption. We didn't even play like that last season, so I'm not sure why you've come to that conclusion.
We should play the same as we did last season, but with Rice or Partey replacing Xhaka in that 8 role. There's no need for Havertz to be starting, no need for Partey as an inverted RB and no need for Gabriel to be benched.
The reason why I'm frustrated is because this is all self-inflicted. I know we've been unfortunate with injuries to the fullbacks, but that doesn't mean Arteta has to go full on galaxy brain. We still have options that allow us to play in a fluid, coherent way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you are going to try and force players into roles that aren't suited to? Pay £105m for a DM and try and force him into an AM role???
I know we didn't play that way last season, that is the contradiction in the two statements. You accuse Arteta of ripping up what he did last season by playing the same system, and then name a team that would be awful at trying to do what he did last season. I say a flat back 4 and 2 DMs because that is what you named. Trying to force players into roles they aren't suitable for doesn't make sense.
Gabriel has been benched because he is not good on the ball. The reason Timber was signed to replace him no doubt. Gabriel, if Timber hadn't been injured, would have been back up to Saliba for the central role of the 3 with White and Timber either side.
Who plays inverted FB if not Partey? Kiwoir? Tomiyasu? Neither are suited to that. Partey, as someone not only experienced at full but more importantly plays in CM where the inverted FB plays most of the game makes perfect sense.
Havertz was literally signed to replace Xhaka. No need for Havertz starting? I think the fact he went all out to sign him suggests the desire is to play him in the role he was signed for instead of forcing a DM into an attacking role. Arteta identified that role as an area to improve and Havertz as a player to do it.
Think it is very strange people want 6 defensive players at home to Forest and Fulham, is a clean sheet more important than a win? Is 0-0 the aim? Maybe there is a case against United, although I think that is giving them the initiative, but against teams who sit back it is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Except the #8 role is not an attacking midfield role, the attacking midfield role is Odegaard #10.
An #8 is a central midfielder who operates as a box-to-box player, doing both attacking and defensive jobs and arriving in the box at the right time. Exactly what Xhaka was doing for us last season.
We already have 3 forwards and an AM (Odegaard) on the pitch. We'd be better controlling the game with Partey sitting back and Rice performing the #8, this would actually allow us to dominate more than trying to use Havertz in that role.
DJ, I'm sorry but everything you've said there is just a justification for the decisions Arteta has made. And regardless of HIS reasons for doing what he's done, he is not exempt from criticism and he should be criticised for these decisions.
YCBC sums up the tactical nuances in midfield, the left sided 8 doesn't have to be a purely attacking role and Xhaka, though he played in a slightly more advanced role, was not fulfilling the same role as Odegaard who takes up more spaces in between the lines and a bit closer to the opposition goal.
Rice and Arteta themselves have said that he's not a fixed no.6 and that he can play as an no.8 too. That he wants to get in more advanced positions and create/score more. Whether its him or Partey in the 6, the point I'm making is a midfield 3 of Rice, Partey and Odegaard is better and more balanced than Rice, Havertz and Odegaard.
Gabriel not being good on the ball? You've just made that up to justify Arteta's decision-making.
Why can't White play as a RB like he did last season? He was one of the best fullbacks in the league. You conveniently missed him off your list. And his versatility/ability to adapt is one of his strongest traits. I'd rather this than Partey at RB, who doesn't look comfortable there and is impacting how we build up.
If Arteta thinks replacing Xhaka with a guy who has been poor for the majority of his time in England, and had no fixed position, is going to improve us, then we have to all be seriously questioning his judgment. If we wanted Havertz to replace Xhaka, there were many other Xhaka replacements we could have got that would have been better and cheaper for £65m. It was a monumental risk that we did not need to take.
Like I said, we are not in a position where we can wait for him to come good, we need players to perform straight away. If we're basing this on meritocracy, there is no reason he should be starting every week like he has been.
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Sporting L. - Arsenal FC- Match Thread
Page 2435 of 3521
2436 | 2437 | 2438 | 2439 | 2440
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 3 minutes ago
Can someone please explain why we've decided to totally tear apart the blueprint from last season? There was no need to try a brand new system and this wasn't the season to start doing tactical experiments.
Also I don't see want to see Havertz starting for us again, he was genuinely awful and offers nothing in an offensive sense. We don't have time to shoehorn him into the side. Play what's familiar and what worked last season. Stop playing partey RB, stop benching Gabriel and use the dynamics from last season that was serving us well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed Samir, surely against Man United we need to play our back 4 we played last season and play Rice, Partey and Odegaard in midfield. Just a question of who plays upfront out of Nketiah, Jesus and Trossard.
posted on 26/8/23
I also think Odegaard has dropped a little deeper since Havertz has started games! we Odegaard to play in his best position to get the best out of him.
posted on 26/8/23
Play the team that beat United last season with Vieira in for Xhaka
posted on 26/8/23
Oh yea and Rice in for Partey
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 5 minutes ago
Can someone please explain why we've decided to totally tear apart the blueprint from last season? There was no need to try a brand new system and this wasn't the season to start doing tactical experiments.
Also I don't see want to see Havertz starting for us again, he was genuinely awful and offers nothing in an offensive sense. We don't have time to shoehorn him into the side. Play what's familiar and what worked last season. Stop playing partey RB, stop benching Gabriel and use the dynamics from last season that was serving us well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The blueprint is the same. 3 man back line, inverted full back joining the DM, two CM further forward, Saka and Martinelli wide of the striker. Literally the only difference in the "blueprint" is it is the right back who inverts.
As last season, individual errors are gifting goals and making the game hard for us.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 5 minutes ago
The team does look disjointed but that should be alleviated somewhat with zinchenko returning.
Let's not forget we had good chances to win the game. We are not cutting enough in the final third, that has been our biggest problem this season. Partey is only playing RB because both our inverting fullbacks have been injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensible take
posted on 26/8/23
It's funny people are saying arteta has ripped up what we've done last season.
Both our inverting full backs are injured, and we know he wants to play with at least one. Partey is the emergency solution (despite not being great), because classically we've had injuries strike in one exact area of the squad.
The biggest issue for me is arteta is forcing havertz into the LCM area when the area has been clogged with no avenues for efficient build up.
I expect to see this against United
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
I've no idea what he's going to do with havertz, personally, if he has to start I'd like it to be up front. But jesus is returning too.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by 50 trust the process (U1147)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 5 minutes ago
The team does look disjointed but that should be alleviated somewhat with zinchenko returning.
Let's not forget we had good chances to win the game. We are not cutting enough in the final third, that has been our biggest problem this season. Partey is only playing RB because both our inverting fullbacks have been injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensible take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timber was brought in as a centre back. Ben white is fit and could have easily played RB
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 7 minutes ago
It's funny people are saying arteta has ripped up what we've done last season.
Both our inverting full backs are injured, and we know he wants to play with at least one. Partey is the emergency solution (despite not being great), because classically we've had injuries strike in one exact area of the squad.
The biggest issue for me is arteta is forcing havertz into the LCM area when the area has been clogged with no avenues for efficient build up.
I expect to see this against United
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
I've no idea what he's going to do with havertz, personally, if he has to start I'd like it to be up front. But jesus is returning too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If he has to start"?
Why does he have to start?
He's been mediocre to poor for 3 games now. No way he should be starting again for a while.
posted on 26/8/23
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
The way we build up is different, he's changed personnel, he's playing players in different positions and Martinelli is playing wider. There is more emphasis on control than chance creation. And our LHS dynamics are really poor.
Dropping Gabriel and starting Havertz, when the former has done nothing to warrant being dropped and the latter has done nothing to prove why he should be starting, massively impacts our team dynamics. Partey at RB does not work and I don't see what value he offers playing there because even when he inverts, he doesn't look fully comfortable doing it. This was not a game for Trossard to start up front, either. Why bench Eddie who can stretch defences and play with his back to goal?
Before the second half changes, so many players looked confused as to what areas of the pitch they're meant to be operating in. Fulham took full advantage of this.
Then we have our current mentality and emotional issues because, at home, we still keep doing the same stupid stuff and it keeps costing us. An inquest needs to be done as to why this keeps happening. We always seem to lack emotional control in home games.
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 1 hour, 15 minutes ago
comment by 50 trust the process (U1147)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 5 minutes ago
The team does look disjointed but that should be alleviated somewhat with zinchenko returning.
Let's not forget we had good chances to win the game. We are not cutting enough in the final third, that has been our biggest problem this season. Partey is only playing RB because both our inverting fullbacks have been injured.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sensible take
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Timber was brought in as a centre back. Ben white is fit and could have easily played RB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't know what timber was brought in as. Sure, he can cover saliba there, but I think he was brought in to invert from the right back area.
posted on 26/8/23
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
No he has not. Havertz aside, the principles remain the same. Injuries are simply not helping.
He's adding more variety to our game, but it's gonna take a while.
posted on 26/8/23
looks like WH are not missing Rice
posted on 26/8/23
3-0 West Ham
posted on 26/8/23
comment by goonerGunnDog (U7206)
posted 49 seconds ago
looks like WH are not missing Rice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it would be banter if they beat us
posted on 26/8/23
Brighton get one back
posted on 26/8/23
comment by Tu Meke (U3732)
posted 3 hours, 29 minutes ago
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
No he has not. Havertz aside, the principles remain the same. Injuries are simply not helping.
He's adding more variety to our game, but it's gonna take a while.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way we build up is different and the spaces players are taking up on the pitch are different. The positioning and rotations, and roles of individual players, are not the same as last season. Maybe some of it is due to injuries, but that doesn't explain why he's not giving us the optimal chance of winning.
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
We don't have time for these players to start adapting to new formations and systems. This is the season where we are meant to deliver. This is Mikel's 4th full season with us, we can't go through another transitional phase. It is time to prove whether the 'success' of last season can be built on or whether it won't due to his own decisions. And that's how he will be judged.
posted on 26/8/23
Was the team that we witnessed even that bad today? An early mistake and slightly lax defending undid us. Other than that we were in control. But as I said, we do need more cutting edge. And for players to return. We could've scored 3 or 4 today.
I don't see much difference to the way we build up tbh. It's just on a different side. I'm pretty sure he planned to do it with timber, but his injury (and zinchenko's) have forced him to use partey at RB instead.
It's about getting another attacker into the team without sacrificing a defender - it's actually working pretty well imo, but unfortunately the extra attacker is havertz.
posted on 26/8/23
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
We play the same system as last season. Playing a flat back 4 with 2 DMs is very far from the way we played last season. In fact it harks back to Artetas first full season, where defence was first and foremost. And against a team sitting back. We wouldn't lay a glove on them. Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard would be swamped.
posted on 27/8/23
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
=====
What's the contradiction? That is close to our best XI. Zinchenko and Jesus aren't fully fit which is why I didn't include them. I thought that was obvious. But I suspect you knew that and are trying to be pedantic for the sake of it like you usually do.
Who said we should play a flat back 4 with 2 DMs? You've just made that assumption. We didn't even play like that last season, so I'm not sure why you've come to that conclusion.
We should play the same as we did last season, but with Rice or Partey replacing Xhaka in that 8 role. There's no need for Havertz to be starting, no need for Partey as an inverted RB and no need for Gabriel to be benched.
The reason why I'm frustrated is because this is all self-inflicted. I know we've been unfortunate with injuries to the fullbacks, but that doesn't mean Arteta has to go full on galaxy brain. We still have options that allow us to play in a fluid, coherent way.
posted on 27/8/23
Samir
posted on 27/8/23
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 9 minutes ago
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
===
If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
===========
The same person made these two contradicting statements????
=====
What's the contradiction? That is close to our best XI. Zinchenko and Jesus aren't fully fit which is why I didn't include them. I thought that was obvious. But I suspect you knew that and are trying to be pedantic for the sake of it like you usually do.
Who said we should play a flat back 4 with 2 DMs? You've just made that assumption. We didn't even play like that last season, so I'm not sure why you've come to that conclusion.
We should play the same as we did last season, but with Rice or Partey replacing Xhaka in that 8 role. There's no need for Havertz to be starting, no need for Partey as an inverted RB and no need for Gabriel to be benched.
The reason why I'm frustrated is because this is all self-inflicted. I know we've been unfortunate with injuries to the fullbacks, but that doesn't mean Arteta has to go full on galaxy brain. We still have options that allow us to play in a fluid, coherent way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you are going to try and force players into roles that aren't suited to? Pay £105m for a DM and try and force him into an AM role???
I know we didn't play that way last season, that is the contradiction in the two statements. You accuse Arteta of ripping up what he did last season by playing the same system, and then name a team that would be awful at trying to do what he did last season. I say a flat back 4 and 2 DMs because that is what you named. Trying to force players into roles they aren't suitable for doesn't make sense.
Gabriel has been benched because he is not good on the ball. The reason Timber was signed to replace him no doubt. Gabriel, if Timber hadn't been injured, would have been back up to Saliba for the central role of the 3 with White and Timber either side.
Who plays inverted FB if not Partey? Kiwoir? Tomiyasu? Neither are suited to that. Partey, as someone not only experienced at full but more importantly plays in CM where the inverted FB plays most of the game makes perfect sense.
Havertz was literally signed to replace Xhaka. No need for Havertz starting? I think the fact he went all out to sign him suggests the desire is to play him in the role he was signed for instead of forcing a DM into an attacking role. Arteta identified that role as an area to improve and Havertz as a player to do it.
Think it is very strange people want 6 defensive players at home to Forest and Fulham, is a clean sheet more important than a win? Is 0-0 the aim? Maybe there is a case against United, although I think that is giving them the initiative, but against teams who sit back it is ridiculous.
posted on 27/8/23
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 3 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by Samir (U2630)
posted 9 minutes ago
He has ripped up what we've done last season.
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If we'd played: Ramsdale, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Kiwior; Rice, Partey, Odegaard; Martinelli, Nketiah, Saka, you can't say to me that would have been worse than the team we witnessed today.
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The same person made these two contradicting statements????
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What's the contradiction? That is close to our best XI. Zinchenko and Jesus aren't fully fit which is why I didn't include them. I thought that was obvious. But I suspect you knew that and are trying to be pedantic for the sake of it like you usually do.
Who said we should play a flat back 4 with 2 DMs? You've just made that assumption. We didn't even play like that last season, so I'm not sure why you've come to that conclusion.
We should play the same as we did last season, but with Rice or Partey replacing Xhaka in that 8 role. There's no need for Havertz to be starting, no need for Partey as an inverted RB and no need for Gabriel to be benched.
The reason why I'm frustrated is because this is all self-inflicted. I know we've been unfortunate with injuries to the fullbacks, but that doesn't mean Arteta has to go full on galaxy brain. We still have options that allow us to play in a fluid, coherent way.
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So you are going to try and force players into roles that aren't suited to? Pay £105m for a DM and try and force him into an AM role???
I know we didn't play that way last season, that is the contradiction in the two statements. You accuse Arteta of ripping up what he did last season by playing the same system, and then name a team that would be awful at trying to do what he did last season. I say a flat back 4 and 2 DMs because that is what you named. Trying to force players into roles they aren't suitable for doesn't make sense.
Gabriel has been benched because he is not good on the ball. The reason Timber was signed to replace him no doubt. Gabriel, if Timber hadn't been injured, would have been back up to Saliba for the central role of the 3 with White and Timber either side.
Who plays inverted FB if not Partey? Kiwoir? Tomiyasu? Neither are suited to that. Partey, as someone not only experienced at full but more importantly plays in CM where the inverted FB plays most of the game makes perfect sense.
Havertz was literally signed to replace Xhaka. No need for Havertz starting? I think the fact he went all out to sign him suggests the desire is to play him in the role he was signed for instead of forcing a DM into an attacking role. Arteta identified that role as an area to improve and Havertz as a player to do it.
Think it is very strange people want 6 defensive players at home to Forest and Fulham, is a clean sheet more important than a win? Is 0-0 the aim? Maybe there is a case against United, although I think that is giving them the initiative, but against teams who sit back it is ridiculous.
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Except the #8 role is not an attacking midfield role, the attacking midfield role is Odegaard #10.
An #8 is a central midfielder who operates as a box-to-box player, doing both attacking and defensive jobs and arriving in the box at the right time. Exactly what Xhaka was doing for us last season.
We already have 3 forwards and an AM (Odegaard) on the pitch. We'd be better controlling the game with Partey sitting back and Rice performing the #8, this would actually allow us to dominate more than trying to use Havertz in that role.
posted on 27/8/23
DJ, I'm sorry but everything you've said there is just a justification for the decisions Arteta has made. And regardless of HIS reasons for doing what he's done, he is not exempt from criticism and he should be criticised for these decisions.
YCBC sums up the tactical nuances in midfield, the left sided 8 doesn't have to be a purely attacking role and Xhaka, though he played in a slightly more advanced role, was not fulfilling the same role as Odegaard who takes up more spaces in between the lines and a bit closer to the opposition goal.
Rice and Arteta themselves have said that he's not a fixed no.6 and that he can play as an no.8 too. That he wants to get in more advanced positions and create/score more. Whether its him or Partey in the 6, the point I'm making is a midfield 3 of Rice, Partey and Odegaard is better and more balanced than Rice, Havertz and Odegaard.
Gabriel not being good on the ball? You've just made that up to justify Arteta's decision-making.
Why can't White play as a RB like he did last season? He was one of the best fullbacks in the league. You conveniently missed him off your list. And his versatility/ability to adapt is one of his strongest traits. I'd rather this than Partey at RB, who doesn't look comfortable there and is impacting how we build up.
If Arteta thinks replacing Xhaka with a guy who has been poor for the majority of his time in England, and had no fixed position, is going to improve us, then we have to all be seriously questioning his judgment. If we wanted Havertz to replace Xhaka, there were many other Xhaka replacements we could have got that would have been better and cheaper for £65m. It was a monumental risk that we did not need to take.
Like I said, we are not in a position where we can wait for him to come good, we need players to perform straight away. If we're basing this on meritocracy, there is no reason he should be starting every week like he has been.
posted on 27/8/23
Gross negligence
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