Good runs are still not being spotted although there was an improvement last night for sure. But James and Greenwood made quite a few that were missed in very good positions as well.

*******************************

This comes from our midfield, especially McFred. For all their pluses, they cannot /refuse to try balls over the top. instead they always defer too Bruno.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 minutes ago
I didn’t see much wrong with last night’s performance at all.

.....

Probably because you don’t know what you are looking for. Not that I am always looking for faults.

AWB got caught out coming inside twice early on in the second half where him and Bailey ended up marking the same man.

This issue has been ongoing all season.

Good runs are still not being spotted although there was an improvement last night for sure. But James and Greenwood made quite a few that were missed in very good positions as well.

But over all it was a good performance.

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Coming inside carrying the ball in the opposition half of coming across narrow when Sociedad had the ball down our left hand side?

If it’s the latter, then that’s by instruction, and most sides do it now. It isn’t a problem if you have your wide player covering the switch of play, which we haven’t done well this season, but has looked better in recent games, including last night.

James is more assiduous defensively than Greenwood, and Rashford than Martial, so that shouldn’t have been a great surprise.

*or coming across

If it’s the latter, then that’s by instruction, and most sides do it now.

.....

No most sides do not. Stop talking out of your ar$e. Very few sides we play against have their full backs marking the same player as their centre backs.

This has been an issue for us all season long with AWB and Shaw. WBA’s first goal started from Shaw being inside close to the same player Maguire was marking.

If this actually being coached then it looks needs to stop. You should never be marking one man with two players defensively.

If you are happy with this the fine.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 14 minutes ago
If it’s the latter, then that’s by instruction, and most sides do it now.

.....

No most sides do not. Stop talking out of your ar$e. Very few sides we play against have their full backs marking the same player as their centre backs.

This has been an issue for us all season long with AWB and Shaw. WBA’s first goal started from Shaw being inside close to the same player Maguire was marking.

If this actually being coached then it looks needs to stop. You should never be marking one man with two players defensively.

If you are happy with this the fine.
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Sorry VC, but you’re just wrong here.

It’s pretty universally coached now: when the opposition has the ball and moves it across the pitch laterally, the back four similarly moves laterally following the ball.

When the ball goes into an advanced wide area drawing a fullback out, the other three defenders shift the line right across, and the opposite fullback will come inside provide additional competition for the ball if a cross is fired in.

You will see every other PL side do it.

I have commented previously that our fullbacks start too narrow and sit off too far, and I still think that’s the case. But using a FB as an auxiliary CB when the attacking threat is coming from a wide area is absolutely commonplace.

“You should never be marking one man with two players defensively.”

This I am also surprised to read, because I guarantee that anyone who has played at a decent level has heard their coach telling them or their teammates to do exactly that on occasion, at the very least.

Defensive overloading in central areas isn’t a strange or revolutionary concept.

Sorry VC, but you’re just wrong here.

.....

No I am not. No teams I have seen are clearly coaching their full backs to mark the same player as their centre backs.

Get a grip of yourself and go and take your head for a wobble, bang it on a wall and come back and stop being daft.

Yes you might double up on a player ever now and then but only a top one.

You don’t double up on McGoldrick etc.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
Sorry VC, but you’re just wrong here.

.....

No I am not. No teams I have seen are clearly coaching their full backs to mark the same player as their centre backs.

Get a grip of yourself and go and take your head for a wobble, bang it on a wall and come back and stop being daft.

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It isn't about man-marking though; defending crosses in open play when you have a defensive overloading situation (which you're always trying to create) is zonal.

The 3+1 approach is pretty standard: you have your two CBs and the opposing fullback come across to defend three zones in front of the 'keeper picking up any players who enter the zone. This usually looks like you're working with a back three. Then you use one of your DMs, if available, to identify when the ball is going to be delivered and drop in.

Here's a good piece on 3+1 and how it works:

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/tactical-theory/tactical-theory-defending-crosses-bundesliga-tactical-analysis-tactics

In the first picture you'll see the Borussia opposite FB in line with his edge of the six yard box and a country mile away from his winger (on the corner of the penalty box). The winger isn't a direct threat so the FB is inside to cover the zone around the far post.

Second picture: "In the centre, they are tight with their opponents while the ball far full-back is rather protecting the space as his direct opponent poses no real threat."

Same thing; the fullback is inside and will pick up the player on the shoulder of the number five if he drops off to the far post.

Fourth picture is an example of that. The forward on the left has gone deep, and is being tracked by the RB. The RCB has actually (and rightly) completely ignored him and is shadowing the forward on the right, despite the fact that that forward is covered by the LCB. Again, nothing unusual or controversial here.

The Augsburg midfielder close to the ref is the only one out of position and should be tracking the opposition player approaching the edge of the D.

The development stage of this Tony Carr session is how you drill it: by alternating pushing the fullbacks wide to go to the crosser, with the opposite coming narrow. Zonal 3 vs 2 defending with the two CBs and opposite FB (as auxilliary CB) picking up the attackers in the drill as appropriate.

https://www.soccercoachweekly.net/practice-plans/defending-the-cross/

*enter their zone

Jesus effing wept. What an utter crock of $hite. Who the hell is Tony Carr?

You can post as much of this waffle as you like, it isn’t going to convince me that leaving who you are supposed to mark free so that you can defend a zone next to your CB is the way ahead.

Same as so long as I keep seeing goals from corners because there is no one on the posts I will ignore your drivel on that issue.

These are the stats you should be concerned about. Our goals against stats. They are awful and from defending you say they are being coached to do.

"Who the hell is Tony Carr?"

Tony Carr is one of the most important and influential coaches in recent football history, VC.

He was director of West Ham's Academy when it was busy churning out the likes of Carrick, Joe Cole, Rio, Lampard, Defoe, Noble, Glen Johnson and John Terry, amongst others. At one point, almost half of the England team had been directly under his tutelage at some stage of their development.

He's renowned as a coaching genius, was involved in consulting on the development of Lilleshall, etc. Go read what the top managers have to say about his influence in the game.

You can ignore what you like; that's your prerogative. But it isn't *my* drivel.

I'm explaining to you how players and kids are coached now, at United, across the PL, in professional academies, in schools and everywhere else.

I didn't invent 3+1 or zonal defending or the use of the narrow sliding back four. If you want to call it drivel, that's up to you.

Tony Carr is one of the most important and influential coaches in recent football history, VC.m

....

Only in your mind.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 42 minutes ago
Tony Carr is one of the most important and influential coaches in recent football history, VC.m

....

Only in your mind.
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Well, and in the minds of Glenn Hoddle, Trevor Brooking, Rio Ferdinand and various others he’s worked with a cursory Google search informs.

And in the minds of football writers across the country, who’ve published reams on his time at West Ham and impact of his work on the England setup.

And those football coaches up and down the country - and funnily enough in the US (where he did a lot of consultancy work with the MLS) - who still use his books as a blueprint for coaching youngsters.

And the Queen, I guess, who gave him an MBE for services to football thanks to his revolutionary development of coaching methods.

If you want to have a look at another side that use *very* narrow FBs when defending against threats from wide, btw, have a look at Pep’s City.

Walker and Cancelo are often found coming as narrow as - and narrower than - the edge of the six yard box.

Well, and in the minds of Glenn Hoddle

.......

You are on the WUM.