Should never be free in my book , terrible crime
Not sticking up for him in anyway, he's a beast.
Thankfully we don't have the death penalty here and he's had a miserable existence for 33 years.
Emotionally like you and nearly everyone else I'd prefer him to die in jail, but, thats not our system, he's served his time and everyone, yes even him, deserve a shot at redemption/2nd chance.
In this instance, I'm not against the death penalty. The fact that we don't. I'd let him rot!
Throw away the key, DNA confirmed the guilt in this case.
Also he’s a cunning fack, he had a friend provide blood sample to evade capture during the investigation.
comment by Happy Pranks 2021 FF JA LFC Champion<biggr... (U22336)
posted 3 minutes ago
Throw away the key, DNA confirmed the guilt in this case.
Also he’s a cunning fack, he had a friend provide blood sample to evade capture during the investigation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 years ago.
I don't instinctively disagree with you but what kind of person were you 33 years ago? (never a killer obviously)
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Happy Pranks 2021 FF JA LFC Champion<biggr... (U22336)
posted 3 minutes ago
Throw away the key, DNA confirmed the guilt in this case.
Also he’s a cunning fack, he had a friend provide blood sample to evade capture during the investigation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 years ago.
I don't instinctively disagree with you but what kind of person were you 33 years ago? (never a killer obviously)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hector, he may be a very different person to who he was 33 years ago, but nevertheless it remains the fact that the young ladies don't get the second chance. I wouldn't be averse to him having privileges to reward good behaviour, perhaps even days out under guard. But to be released into society, I would say a definite no.
Not like the Daily Mail to misrepresent a story.
His sentence completed in 2015. Over the last six years he's been in an open prison, being assessed by psychologists, parole officials, welfare assessors etc to ascertain if he has been rehabilitated, and if he still represents a risk to the public. A judge led investigation found he no longer did.
Fully appreciate the mothers strength of feeling as if it were my child I'll feel exactly the same.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 36 seconds ago
Highly emotive topic that will probably descend into chaos, but my 2 cents.
It is very easy to knee jerk and say death penalty, and also just as easy to say he should be given a second chance, thinking this is the moral victory.
Forgiveness seems to be very high on the morality scale, but... that decision should be with those affected by the tragedy, not someone who has no connection to the devastation left behind.
Sentence. Up to the victims with a maximum of equal measure of the crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not, imo, about morality but punishment. That's the system we have, the system that serves us against thousands of these despicable individuals outwith the high profile incidences.
I don't feel comfortable defending this beast but he was sentenced prior to the full-life term option that's now open to judges.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 36 seconds ago
Highly emotive topic that will probably descend into chaos, but my 2 cents.
It is very easy to knee jerk and say death penalty, and also just as easy to say he should be given a second chance, thinking this is the moral victory.
Forgiveness seems to be very high on the morality scale, but... that decision should be with those affected by the tragedy, not someone who has no connection to the devastation left behind.
Sentence. Up to the victims with a maximum of equal measure of the crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not, imo, about morality but punishment. That's the system we have, the system that serves us against thousands of these despicable individuals outwith the high profile incidences.
I don't feel comfortable defending this beast but he was sentenced prior to the full-life term option that's now open to judges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Systems, like beliefs, should always be under scrutiny for improvement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why we have full life terms which we never used to have, it changed to reflect public mood.
I don't think it's sensible for a legal system to be subjected to, forgive the harsh term, the emotions of victims. No family would rightly ever want a murderer released regardless of the facts of the individual cases.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I don't understand your point.
I'm an abusive husband, my wife kills me after years of abuse, my family miss me and want her locked up forever even though they knew I was a cant to her.
Does she deserve a full life term because my family demand it? Of course not, thats why we have sentencing guidelines and whilst the victim imoact statement carries a bit of weight it's not the overriding determining factor. That, imo, is fairness and justice.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm an abusive husband, my wife kills me after years of abuse, my family miss me and want her locked up forever even though they knew I was a cant to her.
Does she deserve a full life term because my family demand it? Of course not, thats why we have sentencing guidelines and whilst the victim imoact statement carries a bit of weight it's not the overriding determining factor. That, imo, is fairness and justice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand your point that there is no "one size fits all". The example you use would, in my opinion be viewed as manslaughter/diminshed responsibility. I'm only looking at this particular case, where two murders were committed.
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
I'm not down playing the impact of something so horrific and so obviously life-changing and I can only imagine the anger and heartbreak the people you know have experienced.
Unfortunately and without wanting to sound callous, murder happens, it's a horrific part of our human story, that's why we have policing, legal structures and prisons to deal with it.
Don't tell if you dont want but what would your friend see as justice?
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So would you free this man back into society? The two teenage girls will never have that opportunity. That is why I believe full life sentences are relevant in some cases, including this one.
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 4 minutes ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think people who commit certain types of crime can be rehabiliated. And this is certainly one.
Has he been castrated?
comment by Sgt Wilko 92 (U5983)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm an abusive husband, my wife kills me after years of abuse, my family miss me and want her locked up forever even though they knew I was a cant to her.
Does she deserve a full life term because my family demand it? Of course not, thats why we have sentencing guidelines and whilst the victim imoact statement carries a bit of weight it's not the overriding determining factor. That, imo, is fairness and justice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand your point that there is no "one size fits all". The example you use would, in my opinion be viewed as manslaughter/diminshed responsibility. I'm only looking at this particular case, where two murders were committed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree that this fella is a monster.
I just think its an interesting chat that, so far, has been pretty decent.
I do believe in full life terms, that perpetrators of heinous crimes shouldn't be given the easy way out, that they should suffer retributive punishment, I just think 'we' have to be consistent and not rely on the emotion/mercy of the victims.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally believe in rehabilitation, for most but not all.
We dont really have a rehabilitation prison system, we have a lock 'em up and forget 'em most of the time system, especially for shorter sentences, so when their time is up they're released back amongst us.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Sgt Wilko 92 (U5983)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So would you free this man back into society? The two teenage girls will never have that opportunity. That is why I believe full life sentences are relevant in some cases, including this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he is deemed no threat to society then yes. I don't really believe in jail myself but completely understand those who want to see people rot.
Sign in if you want to comment
What punishment fits this crime?
Page 1 of 3
posted on 8/6/21
Should never be free in my book , terrible crime
posted on 8/6/21
Not sticking up for him in anyway, he's a beast.
Thankfully we don't have the death penalty here and he's had a miserable existence for 33 years.
Emotionally like you and nearly everyone else I'd prefer him to die in jail, but, thats not our system, he's served his time and everyone, yes even him, deserve a shot at redemption/2nd chance.
posted on 8/6/21
In this instance, I'm not against the death penalty. The fact that we don't. I'd let him rot!
posted on 8/6/21
Throw away the key, DNA confirmed the guilt in this case.
Also he’s a cunning fack, he had a friend provide blood sample to evade capture during the investigation.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Happy Pranks 2021 FF JA LFC Champion<biggr... (U22336)
posted 3 minutes ago
Throw away the key, DNA confirmed the guilt in this case.
Also he’s a cunning fack, he had a friend provide blood sample to evade capture during the investigation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 years ago.
I don't instinctively disagree with you but what kind of person were you 33 years ago? (never a killer obviously)
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Happy Pranks 2021 FF JA LFC Champion<biggr... (U22336)
posted 3 minutes ago
Throw away the key, DNA confirmed the guilt in this case.
Also he’s a cunning fack, he had a friend provide blood sample to evade capture during the investigation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
33 years ago.
I don't instinctively disagree with you but what kind of person were you 33 years ago? (never a killer obviously)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hector, he may be a very different person to who he was 33 years ago, but nevertheless it remains the fact that the young ladies don't get the second chance. I wouldn't be averse to him having privileges to reward good behaviour, perhaps even days out under guard. But to be released into society, I would say a definite no.
posted on 8/6/21
Not like the Daily Mail to misrepresent a story.
His sentence completed in 2015. Over the last six years he's been in an open prison, being assessed by psychologists, parole officials, welfare assessors etc to ascertain if he has been rehabilitated, and if he still represents a risk to the public. A judge led investigation found he no longer did.
Fully appreciate the mothers strength of feeling as if it were my child I'll feel exactly the same.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 36 seconds ago
Highly emotive topic that will probably descend into chaos, but my 2 cents.
It is very easy to knee jerk and say death penalty, and also just as easy to say he should be given a second chance, thinking this is the moral victory.
Forgiveness seems to be very high on the morality scale, but... that decision should be with those affected by the tragedy, not someone who has no connection to the devastation left behind.
Sentence. Up to the victims with a maximum of equal measure of the crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not, imo, about morality but punishment. That's the system we have, the system that serves us against thousands of these despicable individuals outwith the high profile incidences.
I don't feel comfortable defending this beast but he was sentenced prior to the full-life term option that's now open to judges.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 59 seconds ago
comment by Just Shoot, now a Marxist (U10408)
posted 36 seconds ago
Highly emotive topic that will probably descend into chaos, but my 2 cents.
It is very easy to knee jerk and say death penalty, and also just as easy to say he should be given a second chance, thinking this is the moral victory.
Forgiveness seems to be very high on the morality scale, but... that decision should be with those affected by the tragedy, not someone who has no connection to the devastation left behind.
Sentence. Up to the victims with a maximum of equal measure of the crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not, imo, about morality but punishment. That's the system we have, the system that serves us against thousands of these despicable individuals outwith the high profile incidences.
I don't feel comfortable defending this beast but he was sentenced prior to the full-life term option that's now open to judges.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Systems, like beliefs, should always be under scrutiny for improvement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why we have full life terms which we never used to have, it changed to reflect public mood.
I don't think it's sensible for a legal system to be subjected to, forgive the harsh term, the emotions of victims. No family would rightly ever want a murderer released regardless of the facts of the individual cases.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
I don't understand your point.
posted on 8/6/21
I'm an abusive husband, my wife kills me after years of abuse, my family miss me and want her locked up forever even though they knew I was a cant to her.
Does she deserve a full life term because my family demand it? Of course not, thats why we have sentencing guidelines and whilst the victim imoact statement carries a bit of weight it's not the overriding determining factor. That, imo, is fairness and justice.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm an abusive husband, my wife kills me after years of abuse, my family miss me and want her locked up forever even though they knew I was a cant to her.
Does she deserve a full life term because my family demand it? Of course not, thats why we have sentencing guidelines and whilst the victim imoact statement carries a bit of weight it's not the overriding determining factor. That, imo, is fairness and justice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand your point that there is no "one size fits all". The example you use would, in my opinion be viewed as manslaughter/diminshed responsibility. I'm only looking at this particular case, where two murders were committed.
posted on 8/6/21
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
posted on 8/6/21
I'm not down playing the impact of something so horrific and so obviously life-changing and I can only imagine the anger and heartbreak the people you know have experienced.
Unfortunately and without wanting to sound callous, murder happens, it's a horrific part of our human story, that's why we have policing, legal structures and prisons to deal with it.
Don't tell if you dont want but what would your friend see as justice?
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So would you free this man back into society? The two teenage girls will never have that opportunity. That is why I believe full life sentences are relevant in some cases, including this one.
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 4 minutes ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think people who commit certain types of crime can be rehabiliated. And this is certainly one.
Has he been castrated?
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Sgt Wilko 92 (U5983)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm an abusive husband, my wife kills me after years of abuse, my family miss me and want her locked up forever even though they knew I was a cant to her.
Does she deserve a full life term because my family demand it? Of course not, thats why we have sentencing guidelines and whilst the victim imoact statement carries a bit of weight it's not the overriding determining factor. That, imo, is fairness and justice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand your point that there is no "one size fits all". The example you use would, in my opinion be viewed as manslaughter/diminshed responsibility. I'm only looking at this particular case, where two murders were committed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree that this fella is a monster.
I just think its an interesting chat that, so far, has been pretty decent.
I do believe in full life terms, that perpetrators of heinous crimes shouldn't be given the easy way out, that they should suffer retributive punishment, I just think 'we' have to be consistent and not rely on the emotion/mercy of the victims.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally believe in rehabilitation, for most but not all.
We dont really have a rehabilitation prison system, we have a lock 'em up and forget 'em most of the time system, especially for shorter sentences, so when their time is up they're released back amongst us.
posted on 8/6/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/6/21
comment by Sgt Wilko 92 (U5983)
posted 30 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
I feel this depends on whether you believe in rehabilitation or not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So would you free this man back into society? The two teenage girls will never have that opportunity. That is why I believe full life sentences are relevant in some cases, including this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he is deemed no threat to society then yes. I don't really believe in jail myself but completely understand those who want to see people rot.
Page 1 of 3