comment by Cinciwolf----Saka didn't deserve that (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cinci'sBestDay (U22512)
posted 15 minutes ago
We were never going to be able to defend that slender lead for 45 minutes in the second half. It seems that the only person in England who couldn’t see that equaliser coming was our manager.

I still can’t believe he bought two subs on in the 120th minute to take a penalty? Mind boggling stupidity.
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I am on my third go around of the match right now......

But yeah, bringing players on cold just with the single purpose of taking a penalty seems pretty ridiculous, two hours sat watching and then expected to be in the moment and up to speed with the occasion in an instant is pretty risky to say the least.

Also it didn't result in any critical incident but also pretty risky that Southgate basically took off two defensive players for those two penalty takers with Rashford at full back and Italy almost got in there immediately. Imagine how that would have gone down.
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The decision did result in two quite critical incidents, as they both missed 😂

comment by Cinci'sBestDay (U22512)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Cinciwolf----Saka didn't deserve that (U11551)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Cinci'sBestDay (U22512)
posted 15 minutes ago
We were never going to be able to defend that slender lead for 45 minutes in the second half. It seems that the only person in England who couldn’t see that equaliser coming was our manager.

I still can’t believe he bought two subs on in the 120th minute to take a penalty? Mind boggling stupidity.
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I am on my third go around of the match right now......

But yeah, bringing players on cold just with the single purpose of taking a penalty seems pretty ridiculous, two hours sat watching and then expected to be in the moment and up to speed with the occasion in an instant is pretty risky to say the least.

Also it didn't result in any critical incident but also pretty risky that Southgate basically took off two defensive players for those two penalty takers with Rashford at full back and Italy almost got in there immediately. Imagine how that would have gone down.
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The decision did result in two quite critical incidents, as they both missed 😂
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Well yes, they were pretty critical incidents I meant during open play prior of course

As we have seen at Wolves this year, negative and defensive tactics will only get you so far.

To have 34% possession at home in any football match is pretty poor, when you consider some of the players he left on the bench it’s even worse.

Football is decided by fine margins, and many matches in this tournament could have gone either way. You don’t deserve much luck if you set up with 7 defensive players though, we got what we deserved in the final.

No argument from me.

Was looking at some stats earlier and England only had more shots on goal than two of their opponents in this tournament, Ukraine and Denmark. Also only had 64 shots all tournament as well, Italy for comparison had 128.

I think Southgate got the set up right in the first half. The wing backs were high and Italy struggled with us out wide. I think although we didn't have many shots, we got in good positions on a number of occasions and looked the most likely to score.

Second half, Italy started to take control and Southgate just let it happen. The wingbacks started to get penned in and we weren't getting out our own half. We needed an extra man in midfield and Mount was struggling to get in the game. It was crying out for someone like Grealish who could get on the ball and win free kicks to help get us up the pitch.

Then to bring two players on cold, who have barely played all tournament, to take a penalty in the final seems pretty stupid. The pressure is already high when taking a penalty, but it will double if that is your only involvement. You could also see Saka was overawed by the occasion when he came on, which isn't surprising given he is only 19 and not overly experienced. It was surprised he made it to the end of the game (I would have probably subbed him in extra time for someone like Sancho or Rashford) because he was struggling, so having him as a main penalty taker was a shock.

No complaints over the result as Italy were the best team, but Southgate's game management was poor last night.

It looked clear to me that Italy weren't expecting nor had set up for England to play with high pressing wing backs and we needed top press home that advantage before half time and they had a chance to switch things.

As for the pens, I think holding back two attacking subs specifically for the shoot out could be questioned, but I dont think you can criticise Southgate for sending them in to the shout out cold. These are international players, they should know how to kick a ball in any circumstance. But yes poor decision to send up your youngest player for number five when you've got more experienced players available.

Italy were the best team in the tournament and the better team for much of the game yesterday but they couldn’t beat England over 120 minutes so I don’t see the argument for saying Mancini’s game management was any better than Southgate’s.

At the end of the day it took the lottery of a penalty shoot out to decide the game and as ever those things can go either way. I don’t like the idea of players coming off the bench just to take a penalty and it was a surprise when Sako was asked to take one. Maybe he wouldn’t if Jorginho was on our side. An experienced player who has never missed a penalty. But then he didn’t score his either so in what way was that a wiser decision by Mancini.

Italy won the trophy by the narrowest possible of margins. Wish there was a better way of deciding these things than a penalty shoot out

Personally I think, regardless of how experienced you are, taking a penalty in the final of an international tournament is probably the highest pressure a player can feel. The only way to make it more pressurised is to bring a player on as a substitute who has barely played all tournament, in the last minute specifically to take a penalty. It is hardly a surprise if the pressure got to either Rashford or Sancho. It was poor management to put them in that position and if as a manager you want the credit if it works, you have to take the criticism when it doesn't.

I'm sure there has been countless debates about how, other than a penalty shoot out do you decide a game that needs a result rather than accepting a draw. One suggestion I heard was
1. By the scoreline in extra time
2. if the scores are still level then the team with the most shots on target in extra time
3. If the scores are still level then the team winning the most corners in extra time.
4. If the scores still level then the team that concedes the least free kicks in extra time.

You could go on, but this kind of thing which is about team football is much better in my opinion than a lottery that sends individual footballers to the gallows

Any of those ideas are ridiculous to decide a game of that magnitude.
Would be better to share the trophy.

I am afraid that Southgate showed very poor judgement throughout the tournament.
His team selection, substitutions and game management was pretty poor all tournament.
I know you will say that the ends justified the means, but the football was pretty drab.

I'm not sure that you can justifiably say that the pressure got to either Saka or Sancho. Both had their penalties saved which for me is down to good (or lucky) goalkeeping.
As for Rashford, for all his fancy run up he didn't manage to hit a target the size of a barn. For a professional, international footballer that is unforgivable.

Do hate these stop start run ups for penalties. I thought they’d banned those at one stage?

comment by bostonwolf (U17353)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
I am afraid that Southgate showed very poor judgement throughout the tournament.
His team selection, substitutions and game management was pretty poor all tournament.
I know you will say that the ends justified the means, but the football was pretty drab.


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That's a bit harsh, he took us deeper in to a tournament than any one has in 55 years. International football is always a tight cagey affair especially at semi & final stages.

Southgate's job was to get us at least to the final and he did that. His sides were set up not to lose and by doing that, creative football goes out the window. Pretty much like Nuno. Italy were the better side and deserved to win in playing time. Penalties are a lottery, but players like Rashford should be able to score them. I'm not sure Saka is even good enough to play for England.let alone take a crucial penalty. Anyway, it's all over now and we can concentrate on the build up to the start of the season.

By the way, I thought both Rice and Pickford were our best players. Both of whom I had doubts about at the start. They certainly proved me wrong and I don't mind admitting it.

Yes I was very skeptical around the selection of Rice and I'd never rated Maguire either but both went up massively in my estimation during this tournament.

I think Saka was good all tournament. Yesterday he was poor when he came on and it was probably his only bad game. He looked like the occasion had got to him and I was surprised he finished the game, let alone took the decisive penalty.

Lads

Looks like Wolves are signing Bendegúz Bolla. A Hungarian right back.

I think a few English players enhanced their reputation in the tournament. Maguire and Rice were excellent and I thought Rice was our best player yesterday. Philips surprised me and over the tournament and was possibly our most consistent player. But nobody impressed me more than Luke Shaw who has improved no end over the last two seasons

Just read that about Bolla. Good that we are startling to develop a deeper squad and unless more people leave than expected we shouldn’t be as vulnerable to injuries as we were last season

Rumours that Bolla is going straight out on loan to Grasshoppers. Not sure if that is true though.

Rice was top notch last night but still not sure of the need for both rice and Phillips plus 3 central defenders
Southgate fell into the same trap that nuno is in too stagnant no forwards penetration from the engine... Even stevie wonder can see Italy can be beaten by pace out wide yet they tried to hit kane long time and again which is bread and butter for our cb's

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 25 minutes ago
Rumours that Bolla is going straight out on loan to Grasshoppers. Not sure if that is true though.
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Another 21 year-old investment. Enough already! Sign some experience ffs.

comment by GeminMallorca (U18318)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 25 minutes ago
Rumours that Bolla is going straight out on loan to Grasshoppers. Not sure if that is true though.
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Another 21 year-old investment. Enough already! Sign some experience ffs.
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Sorry Gem. Will try to do better next time.