Lose the next game and back to Ole is a clown
One other thing about Southgate: does anyone else have the feeling he has been transported in time to us from the 1940s? There's a lot about him that feels like a throwback to a very old-fashioned sense of decency, dignity and patriotism that somehow feel quite refreshing in today's world.
I’ve always (naively) thought that football management should be such a simple job. You go from one match to the next and spend all week preparing for the next match and if the tactics are correct you win the game.
It appears that Southgate is doing that and doing it well. Obviously I’m being half serious about how ‘simple’ football management is but the point I’m trying to make is that out of all the managers out there, Southgate just seems to be using that crazy tactic - ie, keeping things simple and just going from match to match with little fuss. And fair play to him, it’s working. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Germany England match where 5 mins in I never for one second thought England were gonna lose.
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
One other thing about Southgate: does anyone else have the feeling he has been transported in time to us from the 1940s? There's a lot about him that feels like a throwback to a very old-fashioned sense of decency, dignity and patriotism that somehow feel quite refreshing in today's world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Southgate is a class act and encapsulates everything I'd expect in a classic English gentleman. A stark contrast to the morons who were abusing the little German girl last night. I'm certain he's the more representative of the whole (I'd like to think so anyway). I can even forgive him thinking England is an island in his little piece from a few weeks ago...
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Scotland after their famous 0-0 victory at Wembley
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is actually true.
Certainly on here anyway. People are so polarised it's nauseating. Players that I see slagged off regularly on here, every week, without fail are now world class and part of the best squad left (we're really not).
If Denmark score two worldies, simply through quality play, and defend really well then it's not a failure to go out of tournament football knock out in that manner and yet people will continue to chat sh!t.
It's the lowest scoring game in the world and yet fine margins are repeatedly over looked.
Managers get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go wrong.
Personally I hope Southgate mugs off all the gobsh!tes on here.
comment by The Post Nearly Man Says Every Single One Of Us Loves Alex Ferguson (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Scotland after their famous 0-0 victory at Wembley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah we had an expectation of getting to the knock outs after that but then failed. England's expectation now is to win it. So not winning it would be a failure.
I quite like Southgate. People seem to have this rigid idea that a good manager has to be a good tactician, whilst ignoring the huge number of other factors which come into play. With a few obvious exceptions at either end of the spectrum, I've never really subscribed to the idea of x being a good manager and y being a bad one - it's often more a case of being the right man for the right team at the right time.
I think you touched on this in another article RR but I also think people underestimate how difficult it is to get an international team to play fluid, swashbuckling football against the well drilled defences we see in the modern game. The Spain and Germany teams that did it in the past decade or so had the advantage of having a large number of their first team players play together at club level. France 2018 are probably the only anomaly in recent times.
Good article as usual RR. What I found interesting yesterday was the outpouring of scorn on social media when the team was announced compared to the adulation he's getting the next day.
The problem with giving people absolute freedom to publish their opinions is that they often do.
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is actually true.
Certainly on here anyway. People are so polarised it's nauseating. Players that I see slagged off regularly on here, every week, without fail are now world class and part of the best squad left (we're really not).
If Denmark score two worldies, simply through quality play, and defend really well then it's not a failure to go out of tournament football knock out in that manner and yet people will continue to chat sh!t.
It's the lowest scoring game in the world and yet fine margins are repeatedly over looked.
Managers get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go wrong.
Personally I hope Southgate mugs off all the gobsh!tes on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah watch a match that is decided on penalties and see the narrative of the actual match change based on who wins the shootout. From tactics, even down to youth development and the whole football culture in a country. Just cos one person missed a pen.
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 6 minutes ago
I quite like Southgate. People seem to have this rigid idea that a good manager has to be a good tactician, whilst ignoring the huge number of other factors which come into play. With a few obvious exceptions at either end of the spectrum, I've never really subscribed to the idea of x being a good manager and y being a bad one - it's often more a case of being the right man for the right team at the right time.
I think you touched on this in another article RR but I also think people underestimate how difficult it is to get an international team to play fluid, swashbuckling football against the well drilled defences we see in the modern game. The Spain and Germany teams that did it in the past decade or so had the advantage of having a large number of their first team players play together at club level. France 2018 are probably the only anomaly in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All this.
The only way is down now for Scotland. They are now expected to qualify for the Euros, so defeat in the qualifiers (disaster), Nations League (another disaster), or the playoffs (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for them to be judged on now.
I'm just waiting for fo you to actually meet a proper side like Belgium Italy or Spain ( no longer what they once were). An when commentating on another match can you guys please show some neutrality and talk about Sweden v Ukraine in the first 15 seconds you mentioned England 4 times are you guys mad lol .
Then we can get back to normalcy and talk transfers and the season ahead.
I agree with comments above about keeping things simple in international football, and about Southgate's strengths in culture building making up for his shortcomings as a tactician. But we should also acknowledge that Southgate's England tactics are 100 times more nuanced, sophisticated and thought through than the armchair insults about his selections and lack of tactical imagination.
This
I’m shocked at how people expect international teams to play expansive swashbuckling football just because you have talented players.
Football doesn’t work like that. I’m certain most of the fan base here are teenagers based on the comments in the live thread.
Name a single team that’s not Brazil or the Dutch that has played peak barca football.
Southgate deserves credit for overcoming a massive hurdle in Germany … fading force or not. That aside, you have to admit he’s been unbelievably fortunate with a tournament draw (plus home advantage) … again. Think he might have come unstuck by now if, say, he’d had Belgium’s horror route to winning it. Think his “success” needs to be set in that context.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
I agree with comments above about keeping things simple in international football, and about Southgate's strengths in culture building making up for his shortcomings as a tactician. But we should also acknowledge that Southgate's England tactics are 100 times more nuanced, sophisticated and thought through than the armchair insults about his selections and lack of tactical imagination.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England have a diddums crew as well
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 9 minutes ago
Southgate deserves credit for overcoming a massive hurdle in Germany … fading force or not. That aside, you have to admit he’s been unbelievably fortunate with a tournament draw (plus home advantage) … again. Think he might have come unstuck by now if, say, he’d had Belgium’s horror route to winning it. Think his “success” needs to be set in that context.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends what he's judged against tbf, not every England manager before him that has failed tournament after tournament has had tough draws.
Surely you are not accusing the modern football fan of being fickle?
It's a good thread. Southgate is clearly ok. Sensible, likeable, respected. And that counts for a lot. He's given us a platform to win and the rest is kind of on the players really.
Whoever was in charge we'd be picking apart his team selection and tactics, is what we do. But let's not have a go at each other for getting excited about possibly winning it. It's all bantz init. At the very least we should be united in caanting off Germany and Scotland.
Regarding Southgate, I know somebody who is involved in the FA at county level but has also gone on to do his coaching badges and they went to Harrogate to watch a training session when Southgate was the manager of the Under 21 side and this particular person said that they were shocked by what they were seeing.
Common phrases Southgate used were "yes", "well done" and "very nice" which they said did not entice or motivate players because, even poor bits of a training session, was always met with a positive mantra. Now of course this is good for building morale but the case in point was that, because the training session was so poor, you would have expected different phrases to be used or potential interventions to be addressed because the players ultimately were not doing what the purpose of the training session was, but were consistently met with positive phrases and were not told that certain aspects were being performed wrong.
Now I'm convinced that Southgate wasn't immune to this and probably did have a word with the group after the session ended and potentially behind closed doors, but I think it was the quality of the session that shocked the particular person that viewed the session and this person I know spoke to others at the time that were similarly underwhelmed with many people saying that England's issues come through too many people being "yes men" as well as being concerned about the youth of England coming through if that training session was the standard they were performing to.
comment by Mr x (U22652)
posted 31 minutes ago
I'm just waiting for fo you to actually meet a proper side like Belgium Italy or Spain ( no longer what they once were). An when commentating on another match can you guys please show some neutrality and talk about Sweden v Ukraine in the first 15 seconds you mentioned England 4 times are you guys mad lol .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i see we're already at the "germany not a proper side" stage...such revisionism usually waits until after the tournament.
also good to see that spain = fading force narrative come in, just in case we end up meeting and beating them. next stop - denmark/czechs are the weakest semi-finalists in decades.
and you do realise that, presumably, the bbc/itv commentators are not posters on here, so no idea why you are telling us how to commentate.
We won yesterday, and I think we can say we were the better side. However, it ultimately came down to us taking our chances. He matched Germany man for man to nullify their full backs, good move but not a tactical masterclass IMO. That German side were there for the taking.
We clearly don’t have the best defence or midfield in the competition so he has looked to sure that up in numbers and playing risk averse systems.
Cant complain at the results, maybe Gareth is simply getting the best out of what he has.
Sign in if you want to comment
Revising opinions
Page 1 of 4
posted on 30/6/21
Lose the next game and back to Ole is a clown
posted on 30/6/21
One other thing about Southgate: does anyone else have the feeling he has been transported in time to us from the 1940s? There's a lot about him that feels like a throwback to a very old-fashioned sense of decency, dignity and patriotism that somehow feel quite refreshing in today's world.
posted on 30/6/21
I’ve always (naively) thought that football management should be such a simple job. You go from one match to the next and spend all week preparing for the next match and if the tactics are correct you win the game.
It appears that Southgate is doing that and doing it well. Obviously I’m being half serious about how ‘simple’ football management is but the point I’m trying to make is that out of all the managers out there, Southgate just seems to be using that crazy tactic - ie, keeping things simple and just going from match to match with little fuss. And fair play to him, it’s working. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Germany England match where 5 mins in I never for one second thought England were gonna lose.
posted on 30/6/21
You are not wrong.
posted on 30/6/21
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
One other thing about Southgate: does anyone else have the feeling he has been transported in time to us from the 1940s? There's a lot about him that feels like a throwback to a very old-fashioned sense of decency, dignity and patriotism that somehow feel quite refreshing in today's world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Southgate is a class act and encapsulates everything I'd expect in a classic English gentleman. A stark contrast to the morons who were abusing the little German girl last night. I'm certain he's the more representative of the whole (I'd like to think so anyway). I can even forgive him thinking England is an island in his little piece from a few weeks ago...
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Scotland after their famous 0-0 victory at Wembley
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is actually true.
Certainly on here anyway. People are so polarised it's nauseating. Players that I see slagged off regularly on here, every week, without fail are now world class and part of the best squad left (we're really not).
If Denmark score two worldies, simply through quality play, and defend really well then it's not a failure to go out of tournament football knock out in that manner and yet people will continue to chat sh!t.
It's the lowest scoring game in the world and yet fine margins are repeatedly over looked.
Managers get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go wrong.
Personally I hope Southgate mugs off all the gobsh!tes on here.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by The Post Nearly Man Says Every Single One Of Us Loves Alex Ferguson (U1270)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Scotland after their famous 0-0 victory at Wembley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah we had an expectation of getting to the knock outs after that but then failed. England's expectation now is to win it. So not winning it would be a failure.
posted on 30/6/21
I quite like Southgate. People seem to have this rigid idea that a good manager has to be a good tactician, whilst ignoring the huge number of other factors which come into play. With a few obvious exceptions at either end of the spectrum, I've never really subscribed to the idea of x being a good manager and y being a bad one - it's often more a case of being the right man for the right team at the right time.
I think you touched on this in another article RR but I also think people underestimate how difficult it is to get an international team to play fluid, swashbuckling football against the well drilled defences we see in the modern game. The Spain and Germany teams that did it in the past decade or so had the advantage of having a large number of their first team players play together at club level. France 2018 are probably the only anomaly in recent times.
posted on 30/6/21
Good article as usual RR. What I found interesting yesterday was the outpouring of scorn on social media when the team was announced compared to the adulation he's getting the next day.
The problem with giving people absolute freedom to publish their opinions is that they often do.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Robbing Hoody - Legacy Fan (U6374)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Barry Smith (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
The only way is down now for Southgate. He is now expected to win the Euros, so defeat in the quarters (disaster), semis (another disaster), or the final (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for him to be judged on now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is actually true.
Certainly on here anyway. People are so polarised it's nauseating. Players that I see slagged off regularly on here, every week, without fail are now world class and part of the best squad left (we're really not).
If Denmark score two worldies, simply through quality play, and defend really well then it's not a failure to go out of tournament football knock out in that manner and yet people will continue to chat sh!t.
It's the lowest scoring game in the world and yet fine margins are repeatedly over looked.
Managers get too much credit when things go well and too much grief when things go wrong.
Personally I hope Southgate mugs off all the gobsh!tes on here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah watch a match that is decided on penalties and see the narrative of the actual match change based on who wins the shootout. From tactics, even down to youth development and the whole football culture in a country. Just cos one person missed a pen.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 6 minutes ago
I quite like Southgate. People seem to have this rigid idea that a good manager has to be a good tactician, whilst ignoring the huge number of other factors which come into play. With a few obvious exceptions at either end of the spectrum, I've never really subscribed to the idea of x being a good manager and y being a bad one - it's often more a case of being the right man for the right team at the right time.
I think you touched on this in another article RR but I also think people underestimate how difficult it is to get an international team to play fluid, swashbuckling football against the well drilled defences we see in the modern game. The Spain and Germany teams that did it in the past decade or so had the advantage of having a large number of their first team players play together at club level. France 2018 are probably the only anomaly in recent times.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All this.
posted on 30/6/21
The only way is down now for Scotland. They are now expected to qualify for the Euros, so defeat in the qualifiers (disaster), Nations League (another disaster), or the playoffs (big disappointment) would be seen as a failure. All or nothing for them to be judged on now.
posted on 30/6/21
I'm just waiting for fo you to actually meet a proper side like Belgium Italy or Spain ( no longer what they once were). An when commentating on another match can you guys please show some neutrality and talk about Sweden v Ukraine in the first 15 seconds you mentioned England 4 times are you guys mad lol .
Then we can get back to normalcy and talk transfers and the season ahead.
posted on 30/6/21
I agree with comments above about keeping things simple in international football, and about Southgate's strengths in culture building making up for his shortcomings as a tactician. But we should also acknowledge that Southgate's England tactics are 100 times more nuanced, sophisticated and thought through than the armchair insults about his selections and lack of tactical imagination.
posted on 30/6/21
This
I’m shocked at how people expect international teams to play expansive swashbuckling football just because you have talented players.
Football doesn’t work like that. I’m certain most of the fan base here are teenagers based on the comments in the live thread.
Name a single team that’s not Brazil or the Dutch that has played peak barca football.
posted on 30/6/21
Southgate deserves credit for overcoming a massive hurdle in Germany … fading force or not. That aside, you have to admit he’s been unbelievably fortunate with a tournament draw (plus home advantage) … again. Think he might have come unstuck by now if, say, he’d had Belgium’s horror route to winning it. Think his “success” needs to be set in that context.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 minutes ago
I agree with comments above about keeping things simple in international football, and about Southgate's strengths in culture building making up for his shortcomings as a tactician. But we should also acknowledge that Southgate's England tactics are 100 times more nuanced, sophisticated and thought through than the armchair insults about his selections and lack of tactical imagination.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
England have a diddums crew as well
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 9 minutes ago
Southgate deserves credit for overcoming a massive hurdle in Germany … fading force or not. That aside, you have to admit he’s been unbelievably fortunate with a tournament draw (plus home advantage) … again. Think he might have come unstuck by now if, say, he’d had Belgium’s horror route to winning it. Think his “success” needs to be set in that context.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends what he's judged against tbf, not every England manager before him that has failed tournament after tournament has had tough draws.
posted on 30/6/21
Surely you are not accusing the modern football fan of being fickle?
posted on 30/6/21
It's a good thread. Southgate is clearly ok. Sensible, likeable, respected. And that counts for a lot. He's given us a platform to win and the rest is kind of on the players really.
Whoever was in charge we'd be picking apart his team selection and tactics, is what we do. But let's not have a go at each other for getting excited about possibly winning it. It's all bantz init. At the very least we should be united in caanting off Germany and Scotland.
posted on 30/6/21
Regarding Southgate, I know somebody who is involved in the FA at county level but has also gone on to do his coaching badges and they went to Harrogate to watch a training session when Southgate was the manager of the Under 21 side and this particular person said that they were shocked by what they were seeing.
Common phrases Southgate used were "yes", "well done" and "very nice" which they said did not entice or motivate players because, even poor bits of a training session, was always met with a positive mantra. Now of course this is good for building morale but the case in point was that, because the training session was so poor, you would have expected different phrases to be used or potential interventions to be addressed because the players ultimately were not doing what the purpose of the training session was, but were consistently met with positive phrases and were not told that certain aspects were being performed wrong.
Now I'm convinced that Southgate wasn't immune to this and probably did have a word with the group after the session ended and potentially behind closed doors, but I think it was the quality of the session that shocked the particular person that viewed the session and this person I know spoke to others at the time that were similarly underwhelmed with many people saying that England's issues come through too many people being "yes men" as well as being concerned about the youth of England coming through if that training session was the standard they were performing to.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Mr x (U22652)
posted 31 minutes ago
I'm just waiting for fo you to actually meet a proper side like Belgium Italy or Spain ( no longer what they once were). An when commentating on another match can you guys please show some neutrality and talk about Sweden v Ukraine in the first 15 seconds you mentioned England 4 times are you guys mad lol .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i see we're already at the "germany not a proper side" stage...such revisionism usually waits until after the tournament.
also good to see that spain = fading force narrative come in, just in case we end up meeting and beating them. next stop - denmark/czechs are the weakest semi-finalists in decades.
and you do realise that, presumably, the bbc/itv commentators are not posters on here, so no idea why you are telling us how to commentate.
posted on 30/6/21
We won yesterday, and I think we can say we were the better side. However, it ultimately came down to us taking our chances. He matched Germany man for man to nullify their full backs, good move but not a tactical masterclass IMO. That German side were there for the taking.
We clearly don’t have the best defence or midfield in the competition so he has looked to sure that up in numbers and playing risk averse systems.
Cant complain at the results, maybe Gareth is simply getting the best out of what he has.
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