Yeah that’s why I’m hoping Southgate makes that switch. I think starting with the same team as against the Czech Republic but switching the wingers would be our best bet. Who is likely missing for Ukraine, by the way?
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
Yarmolenko is the big one, heard earlier he was very doubtful. Him and one of their central defenders were the ones they were talking about on the radio earlier.
That and just how much last night would have took out of them in general.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
...................
I would say that it took the personnel change to make the tactics work.
Shaw might just as well not been on the field until Grealish came on.
Saka was good, but didn't actually have a direct impact. Did he create any chances, I can't think of any?
If you're winning and sitting deep he is a good option as he holds the ball, wins free kicks and gives the defence a breather. Thats what I thought he did well when Germany was initially on top.
melts
Yarmolenko will be a big miss for them.
Ukraine ๐บ๐ฆ would probably be better for England THAN Sweden ๐ธ๐ช.
I really hope he changes the approach for Ukraine. We need to get at them and put the game away early. They'll want to turn it into and a battle and take us to pens
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 18 minutes ago
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The result tends to drive the narrative more than the performance TRS, at least with most tv and media analysis.
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 18 minutes ago
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The result tends to drive the narrative more than the performance TRS, at least with most tv and media analysis.
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were. And as I said, that’s a bit worrying given the number of defensive players we had in there. Gaping holes at times.
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
............................
United are often like this. I am positive it is because of having to sitting midfielders that just sit as opposed to anticipating where the ball will go and intercepting it.
When two players sit in front of the CB's it leaves to much open space in front of them for the opposition to exploit.
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 43 minutes ago
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I feel we could have let the reins off and still won and maybe more convincingly. Perhaps we made it a closer affair than it needed to be? Grealish starting was what most people wanted and when he came on it changed the game.
It's a 'knockabout' knockout competition for goodness sake.
At the 'round of sixteen' stage pretty much all of them have similar 'potential' to win it.
That situation is, was, and will, pretty much, always be the same.
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
--------------------------------------------
Yeah Germany overloaded the midfield too easily, Scotland did similar. I'm not a huge fan of either Phillips or Rice and what they contribute in possession but I don't think they're helped by our structure and the amount of work they're required to do as a pairing, particularly yesterday.
That’s why we’d be better off with the 433.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 15 minutes ago
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
............................
United are often like this. I am positive it is because of having to sitting midfielders that just sit as opposed to anticipating where the ball will go and intercepting it.
When two players sit in front of the CB's it leaves to much open space in front of them for the opposition to exploit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was clear early on, when they had possession, the Soave between midfield and attack was ridiculous. Just inviting the Germans to attack.
That’s why we’d be better off with the 433.
-----------------------------------------------
Yeah both England and United.
I don’t think so much with United given Bruno’s importance to our attack. Signing Sancho might change that, though.
I think we'd be a better overall team for it, especially when we add more quality which we've finally done.
With the current personnel I’m not so sure. But that’s the bigger problem that we’ve not addressed those deeper areas in midfield. We aren’t going to either so it is what it is.
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 20 minutes ago
I don’t think so much with United given Bruno’s importance to our attack. Signing Sancho might change that, though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually think Bruno could play in a 3 with Pogba and the right DM.
He covers ground well, bundles of energy and tenacity. As you say though, we need him in the final third at the moment. I’d also worry about him and Pogba never being able to keep hold of the ball.
Possibly but for now he’s just too important to the attack to change the shape of the midfield. He’s basically playing like a striker for us at times.
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 28 seconds ago
Regarding Southgate, I know somebody who is involved in the FA at county level but has also gone on to do his coaching badges and they went to Harrogate to watch a training session when Southgate was the manager of the Under 21 side and this particular person said that they were shocked by what they were seeing.
Common phrases Southgate used were "yes", "well done" and "very nice" which they said did not entice or motivate players because, even poor bits of a training session, was always met with a positive mantra. Now of course this is good for building morale but the case in point was that, because the training session was so poor, you would have expected different phrases to be used or potential interventions to be addressed because the players ultimately were not doing what the purpose of the training session was, but were consistently met with positive phrases and were not told that certain aspects were being performed wrong.
Now I'm convinced that Southgate wasn't immune to this and probably did have a word with the group after the session ended and potentially behind closed doors, but I think it was the quality of the session that shocked the particular person that viewed the session and this person I know spoke to others at the time that were similarly underwhelmed with many people saying that England's issues come through too many people being "yes men" as well as being concerned about the youth of England coming through if that training session was the standard they were performing to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry?
Clearly Southgate has committed to a tactical approach to the job.
No shexy football required.
comment by Sky-blue (U22529)
posted 1 day, 17 hours ago
This
I’m shocked at how people expect international teams to play expansive swashbuckling football just because you have talented players.
Football doesn’t work like that. I’m certain most of the fan base here are teenagers based on the comments in the live thread.
Name a single team that’s not Brazil or the Dutch that has played peak barca football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup.
International football, by it's very infrequency, just does not, cannot or will not reach the same levels of team-cohesion, technical effectiveness, strategic nuance or even intensity of competitiveness as club football.
Identifying those that expect 11 randomly selected players from any 'nation' to perform against ANY club team, from ANY of the major league systems, is one of the most useful indicators to use in identifying those that are the most clueless about the sport.
And that isn't limited to just "teenagers" posting on forums such as this. It's been a common mis-comprehension for decades and across generations. It's one of the primary reasons why international football is disjointed, ugly, aimless and terrible to watch compared to high level club football.
Coaching, team work, knowingness, practice, repetition of experience, drills on tactics and strategy etc., cannot be replicated, represented or replaced by simply taking 11 people out of the team they contribute well to week-in-week-out and then expecting them to do things that will often be completely different, and even 'undo' what they have learnt and/or experienced.
Sign in if you want to comment
Revising opinions
Page 4 of 4
posted on 30/6/21
Yeah that’s why I’m hoping Southgate makes that switch. I think starting with the same team as against the Czech Republic but switching the wingers would be our best bet. Who is likely missing for Ukraine, by the way?
posted on 30/6/21
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
posted on 30/6/21
Yarmolenko is the big one, heard earlier he was very doubtful. Him and one of their central defenders were the ones they were talking about on the radio earlier.
That and just how much last night would have took out of them in general.
posted on 30/6/21
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
...................
I would say that it took the personnel change to make the tactics work.
Shaw might just as well not been on the field until Grealish came on.
posted on 30/6/21
Saka was good, but didn't actually have a direct impact. Did he create any chances, I can't think of any?
If you're winning and sitting deep he is a good option as he holds the ball, wins free kicks and gives the defence a breather. Thats what I thought he did well when Germany was initially on top.
posted on 30/6/21
melts
Yarmolenko will be a big miss for them.
posted on 30/6/21
Ukraine ๐บ๐ฆ would probably be better for England THAN Sweden ๐ธ๐ช.
posted on 30/6/21
I really hope he changes the approach for Ukraine. We need to get at them and put the game away early. They'll want to turn it into and a battle and take us to pens
posted on 30/6/21
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 18 minutes ago
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The result tends to drive the narrative more than the performance TRS, at least with most tv and media analysis.
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 18 minutes ago
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The result tends to drive the narrative more than the performance TRS, at least with most tv and media analysis.
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were. And as I said, that’s a bit worrying given the number of defensive players we had in there. Gaping holes at times.
posted on 30/6/21
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
............................
United are often like this. I am positive it is because of having to sitting midfielders that just sit as opposed to anticipating where the ball will go and intercepting it.
When two players sit in front of the CB's it leaves to much open space in front of them for the opposition to exploit.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 43 minutes ago
Southgate's selection worked albeit we could have been punished by Muller.
------------------------------------------
And then it wouldn't have worked.
Not talking about anybody specific but what's evident all over social media is the fine lines in some people's thinking and how they view games. We win, the tactics were spot on, we lose, the tactics were wrong.
We were a Muller shot the other side of the post away from a potentially different outcome but the funny thing is if that had gone in and we'd gone on to lose, the 'Southgate got his tactics spot on' narrative goes out the window thanks to an individual error and one moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest I feel we could have let the reins off and still won and maybe more convincingly. Perhaps we made it a closer affair than it needed to be? Grealish starting was what most people wanted and when he came on it changed the game.
posted on 30/6/21
It's a 'knockabout' knockout competition for goodness sake.
At the 'round of sixteen' stage pretty much all of them have similar 'potential' to win it.
That situation is, was, and will, pretty much, always be the same.
posted on 30/6/21
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
--------------------------------------------
Yeah Germany overloaded the midfield too easily, Scotland did similar. I'm not a huge fan of either Phillips or Rice and what they contribute in possession but I don't think they're helped by our structure and the amount of work they're required to do as a pairing, particularly yesterday.
posted on 30/6/21
That’s why we’d be better off with the 433.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 15 minutes ago
That Muller chance though, as much as it was an individual mistake, we were vulnerable through the middle most of the game.
............................
United are often like this. I am positive it is because of having to sitting midfielders that just sit as opposed to anticipating where the ball will go and intercepting it.
When two players sit in front of the CB's it leaves to much open space in front of them for the opposition to exploit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was clear early on, when they had possession, the Soave between midfield and attack was ridiculous. Just inviting the Germans to attack.
posted on 30/6/21
That’s why we’d be better off with the 433.
-----------------------------------------------
Yeah both England and United.
posted on 30/6/21
I don’t think so much with United given Bruno’s importance to our attack. Signing Sancho might change that, though.
posted on 30/6/21
I think we'd be a better overall team for it, especially when we add more quality which we've finally done.
posted on 30/6/21
With the current personnel I’m not so sure. But that’s the bigger problem that we’ve not addressed those deeper areas in midfield. We aren’t going to either so it is what it is.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by Scott The King McTominay (U10026)
posted 20 minutes ago
I don’t think so much with United given Bruno’s importance to our attack. Signing Sancho might change that, though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I actually think Bruno could play in a 3 with Pogba and the right DM.
He covers ground well, bundles of energy and tenacity. As you say though, we need him in the final third at the moment. I’d also worry about him and Pogba never being able to keep hold of the ball.
posted on 30/6/21
Possibly but for now he’s just too important to the attack to change the shape of the midfield. He’s basically playing like a striker for us at times.
posted on 30/6/21
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 28 seconds ago
Regarding Southgate, I know somebody who is involved in the FA at county level but has also gone on to do his coaching badges and they went to Harrogate to watch a training session when Southgate was the manager of the Under 21 side and this particular person said that they were shocked by what they were seeing.
Common phrases Southgate used were "yes", "well done" and "very nice" which they said did not entice or motivate players because, even poor bits of a training session, was always met with a positive mantra. Now of course this is good for building morale but the case in point was that, because the training session was so poor, you would have expected different phrases to be used or potential interventions to be addressed because the players ultimately were not doing what the purpose of the training session was, but were consistently met with positive phrases and were not told that certain aspects were being performed wrong.
Now I'm convinced that Southgate wasn't immune to this and probably did have a word with the group after the session ended and potentially behind closed doors, but I think it was the quality of the session that shocked the particular person that viewed the session and this person I know spoke to others at the time that were similarly underwhelmed with many people saying that England's issues come through too many people being "yes men" as well as being concerned about the youth of England coming through if that training session was the standard they were performing to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry?
posted on 30/6/21
Clearly Southgate has committed to a tactical approach to the job.
No shexy football required.
posted on 2/7/21
comment by Sky-blue (U22529)
posted 1 day, 17 hours ago
This
I’m shocked at how people expect international teams to play expansive swashbuckling football just because you have talented players.
Football doesn’t work like that. I’m certain most of the fan base here are teenagers based on the comments in the live thread.
Name a single team that’s not Brazil or the Dutch that has played peak barca football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup.
International football, by it's very infrequency, just does not, cannot or will not reach the same levels of team-cohesion, technical effectiveness, strategic nuance or even intensity of competitiveness as club football.
Identifying those that expect 11 randomly selected players from any 'nation' to perform against ANY club team, from ANY of the major league systems, is one of the most useful indicators to use in identifying those that are the most clueless about the sport.
And that isn't limited to just "teenagers" posting on forums such as this. It's been a common mis-comprehension for decades and across generations. It's one of the primary reasons why international football is disjointed, ugly, aimless and terrible to watch compared to high level club football.
Coaching, team work, knowingness, practice, repetition of experience, drills on tactics and strategy etc., cannot be replicated, represented or replaced by simply taking 11 people out of the team they contribute well to week-in-week-out and then expecting them to do things that will often be completely different, and even 'undo' what they have learnt and/or experienced.
Page 4 of 4