We need to be less passive and attack both in and out of possession.
It tells you that Southgate isn't really learning anything. Same mistakes that were made at the World Cup have been made here.
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
Our midfield was always going to be an issue. While Rice and Phillips did well overall they are still limited in what they can do. There's a lot of expectation on Bellingham's shoulders, there's an article in the Guardian today saying we need to build our team round him for next years WC, the lad's only just turned 18!
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 1 minute ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think those three CMs of their are better than ours, which is probably what he meant.
But considering the age of Foden, Mount, Grealish, Rice, Phillips, i can't help but feel you get as many of them in and you keep the ball.
Sterling, Kane, Sancho/Saka
Mount, Foden, Rice
Surely that could challenge any team
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
Our central midfielders are good enough with the ball.
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Southgate has ultimately failed, in a few months time no one remembers who came second.
The longer this tournament went on the more bored I got with England, how sad is that!
He wants locking up for not going at Italy like we did in the first 10 minutes. Anytime we got chance to run at their defence they looked shaky.
I can't even begin to get excited about the WC if that's the crap Southgate dishes up again.
It's obvious Southgate doesn't feel our midfield players are good enough to dominate possession, which is why he sets them up to be more transitional.
I want to believe that he is wrong, but tbf where is the evidence? and the other question is - can Rice or Phillips cope as the only sitting midfielder against the best teams?
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 53 seconds ago
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're probably right about Rashfords penalty, but I'm thinking overall, we will probably lose more games than we win, playing this way against the big teams
I'm very excited about the WC though and what this team can do. We are finally a 'team'
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
How was Rashford's penalty clever, he missed?
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 35 seconds ago
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane is fine, but since he drops deep, and isn't always occupying those positions you want him to be in, in and around the box, you need good attacking options elsewhere. Unfortunately Sterling had a stinker yesterday and Mount just doesn't offer enough attacking threat and shouldn't have even started.
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
Italy are a good side and we did enter than most expected before the tournament BUT Southgates tactics , team selections and substitutions held us back, certainly in the final.
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 35 seconds ago
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane is fine, but since he drops deep, and isn't always occupying those positions you want him to be in, in and around the box, you need good attacking options elsewhere. Unfortunately Sterling had a stinker yesterday and Mount just doesn't offer enough attacking threat and shouldn't have even started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That what I mean, I think Kane is wasted having him drop so deep. We have the players to get him the ball further up the pitch.
Such a waste.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you find anyone of note that has praised his tactics and team selections?
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 4 minutes ago
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to claim that, having been fortunate enough to avoid France, Belgium, Spain and Portugal (all in the top 6 of the FIFA rankings), having minimal travel, and 6 out of 7 games at Wembley.
Problem with Southgate teams is that we don't play attacking full backs. Shaw does alright when he is allowed but when you play 2 sitting midfielders there is no wide outlet for them.
This final was always about the midfield battle and going back to a back 5 meant one less body in midfield which was the same result against Croatia so clearly Southgate has made the same mistake twice.
Shaw was probably the best LB in the tournament, and Walker has been praised (not sure why admittedly)
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Southgate has ultimately failed, in a few months time no one remembers who came second.
The longer this tournament went on the more bored I got with England, how sad is that!
He wants locking up for not going at Italy like we did in the first 10 minutes. Anytime we got chance to run at their defence they looked shaky.
I can't even begin to get excited about the WC if that's the crap Southgate dishes up again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The England teams and campaigns of 1990 and 1996 are remembered with huge affection and pride, despite not progressing as far as this one. It's absurd to talk about success/failure in such absolute terms, especially when the dividing line is a couple of penalty kicks. And if you define failure as not being tournament champions, then nearly everyone is a failure (including Netherlands 1974 and Brazil 1982) and at that point the term becomes meaningless. To me Graham Taylor's and Steve Mclaren's teams were failures when they didn't manage to qualify. The best England performance in half a century with a team full of young players who will just get better is a failure I can be proud of.
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 35 seconds ago
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane is fine, but since he drops deep, and isn't always occupying those positions you want him to be in, in and around the box, you need good attacking options elsewhere. Unfortunately Sterling had a stinker yesterday and Mount just doesn't offer enough attacking threat and shouldn't have even started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That what I mean, I think Kane is wasted having him drop so deep. We have the players to get him the ball further up the pitch.
Such a waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane actually did well yesterday. He's good either dropping deep and holding up the ball/winning free kicks/making great through balls passes, or scoring. If you're going to play Kane then you should utilise pacy attacking players to negate Kane's deeper play.
One of our best performances under Southgate was when we went to Spain and had Rashford and Sterling feeding off Kane. Shame we couldn't have tried using our pace against 2 CB's with a combined age of 80.
I think like ‘90 and ‘96 there seems to be a collective fondness for the squad which is why I’m sure this tournament will be remembered positively like those were.
It’ll be interesting to see how the WC goes considering it’s only a year away.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Southgate has ultimately failed, in a few months time no one remembers who came second.
The longer this tournament went on the more bored I got with England, how sad is that!
He wants locking up for not going at Italy like we did in the first 10 minutes. Anytime we got chance to run at their defence they looked shaky.
I can't even begin to get excited about the WC if that's the crap Southgate dishes up again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The England teams and campaigns of 1990 and 1996 are remembered with huge affection and pride, despite not progressing as far as this one. It's absurd to talk about success/failure in such absolute terms, especially when the dividing line is a couple of penalty kicks. And if you define failure as not being tournament champions, then nearly everyone is a failure (including Netherlands 1974 and Brazil 1982) and at that point the term becomes meaningless. To me Graham Taylor's and Steve Mclaren's teams were failures when they didn't manage to qualify. The best England performance in half a century with a team full of young players who will just get better is a failure I can be proud of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The dissapointment this time, at least fore, is that we could have wonnthe damp thing if Southgate hadn't instructed the team to sit back for 70 mind plus extra time, and had introduced Grealish, Sancho and Rashford sooner.
Sign in if you want to comment
England & Possession
Page 1 of 3
posted on 12/7/21
We need to be less passive and attack both in and out of possession.
posted on 12/7/21
It tells you that Southgate isn't really learning anything. Same mistakes that were made at the World Cup have been made here.
posted on 12/7/21
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
posted on 12/7/21
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
posted on 12/7/21
Our midfield was always going to be an issue. While Rice and Phillips did well overall they are still limited in what they can do. There's a lot of expectation on Bellingham's shoulders, there's an article in the Guardian today saying we need to build our team round him for next years WC, the lad's only just turned 18!
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 1 minute ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think those three CMs of their are better than ours, which is probably what he meant.
But considering the age of Foden, Mount, Grealish, Rice, Phillips, i can't help but feel you get as many of them in and you keep the ball.
Sterling, Kane, Sancho/Saka
Mount, Foden, Rice
Surely that could challenge any team
posted on 12/7/21
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
posted on 12/7/21
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
posted on 12/7/21
Our central midfielders are good enough with the ball.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Southgate has ultimately failed, in a few months time no one remembers who came second.
The longer this tournament went on the more bored I got with England, how sad is that!
He wants locking up for not going at Italy like we did in the first 10 minutes. Anytime we got chance to run at their defence they looked shaky.
I can't even begin to get excited about the WC if that's the crap Southgate dishes up again.
posted on 12/7/21
It's obvious Southgate doesn't feel our midfield players are good enough to dominate possession, which is why he sets them up to be more transitional.
I want to believe that he is wrong, but tbf where is the evidence? and the other question is - can Rice or Phillips cope as the only sitting midfielder against the best teams?
posted on 12/7/21
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 53 seconds ago
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're probably right about Rashfords penalty, but I'm thinking overall, we will probably lose more games than we win, playing this way against the big teams
I'm very excited about the WC though and what this team can do. We are finally a 'team'
posted on 12/7/21
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
posted on 12/7/21
How was Rashford's penalty clever, he missed?
posted on 12/7/21
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 35 seconds ago
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane is fine, but since he drops deep, and isn't always occupying those positions you want him to be in, in and around the box, you need good attacking options elsewhere. Unfortunately Sterling had a stinker yesterday and Mount just doesn't offer enough attacking threat and shouldn't have even started.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 6 minutes ago
If rashford's very clever penalty was 1cm more to the right we probably wouldnt be having this post mortem. The same poeple moaning will be nominating Soutgate and Co for knighthoods.
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
So all bodes well for the first time for decades with much more to come from this group of players under Southgate who has somehow managed to blend them all into a happy camp, which no other manager has managed since Alf.
With the World Cup only next year and being English,
international football seems a lot more interseting and I cant wait for us to have another go in Qatar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
Italy are a good side and we did enter than most expected before the tournament BUT Southgates tactics , team selections and substitutions held us back, certainly in the final.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 35 seconds ago
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane is fine, but since he drops deep, and isn't always occupying those positions you want him to be in, in and around the box, you need good attacking options elsewhere. Unfortunately Sterling had a stinker yesterday and Mount just doesn't offer enough attacking threat and shouldn't have even started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That what I mean, I think Kane is wasted having him drop so deep. We have the players to get him the ball further up the pitch.
Such a waste.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mur Man (U22601)
posted 2 minutes ago
KSouthgates tactics.
Keep it tight and hope Sterlling or Kane can get a goal or 2. And lets throw some pace in. That's always good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are greatly under estimating him. And that's not just my opinion, many football people who write in the media have a high opinion of him.
Getting to the final and taking it to penalties doesn't warrant your dismissive comments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you find anyone of note that has praised his tactics and team selections?
posted on 12/7/21
comment by RB&W - Always a Legacy (U21434)
posted 4 minutes ago
Against most peoples predictions Southgates England almost won the fecking thing and we were certainly in the top 2 best teams in the tournament.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to claim that, having been fortunate enough to avoid France, Belgium, Spain and Portugal (all in the top 6 of the FIFA rankings), having minimal travel, and 6 out of 7 games at Wembley.
posted on 12/7/21
Problem with Southgate teams is that we don't play attacking full backs. Shaw does alright when he is allowed but when you play 2 sitting midfielders there is no wide outlet for them.
This final was always about the midfield battle and going back to a back 5 meant one less body in midfield which was the same result against Croatia so clearly Southgate has made the same mistake twice.
posted on 12/7/21
Shaw was probably the best LB in the tournament, and Walker has been praised (not sure why admittedly)
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Southgate has ultimately failed, in a few months time no one remembers who came second.
The longer this tournament went on the more bored I got with England, how sad is that!
He wants locking up for not going at Italy like we did in the first 10 minutes. Anytime we got chance to run at their defence they looked shaky.
I can't even begin to get excited about the WC if that's the crap Southgate dishes up again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The England teams and campaigns of 1990 and 1996 are remembered with huge affection and pride, despite not progressing as far as this one. It's absurd to talk about success/failure in such absolute terms, especially when the dividing line is a couple of penalty kicks. And if you define failure as not being tournament champions, then nearly everyone is a failure (including Netherlands 1974 and Brazil 1982) and at that point the term becomes meaningless. To me Graham Taylor's and Steve Mclaren's teams were failures when they didn't manage to qualify. The best England performance in half a century with a team full of young players who will just get better is a failure I can be proud of.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 35 seconds ago
Is Kane undropable? I think he hurts the team overall.
Nice penalty though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane is fine, but since he drops deep, and isn't always occupying those positions you want him to be in, in and around the box, you need good attacking options elsewhere. Unfortunately Sterling had a stinker yesterday and Mount just doesn't offer enough attacking threat and shouldn't have even started.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That what I mean, I think Kane is wasted having him drop so deep. We have the players to get him the ball further up the pitch.
Such a waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kane actually did well yesterday. He's good either dropping deep and holding up the ball/winning free kicks/making great through balls passes, or scoring. If you're going to play Kane then you should utilise pacy attacking players to negate Kane's deeper play.
One of our best performances under Southgate was when we went to Spain and had Rashford and Sterling feeding off Kane. Shame we couldn't have tried using our pace against 2 CB's with a combined age of 80.
posted on 12/7/21
I think like ‘90 and ‘96 there seems to be a collective fondness for the squad which is why I’m sure this tournament will be remembered positively like those were.
It’ll be interesting to see how the WC goes considering it’s only a year away.
posted on 12/7/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Dave The Jackal (U22179)
posted 3 minutes ago
One of Southgate's post-match comments really stood out for me, when he said something like "Italy were always going to have the possession". Why on earth should that be taken as a given, with the undoubted talent throughout the England squad? Almost certainly the highest paid bunch of players at the tournament, yet not good enough to retain possession?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100% this.
Southgate has ultimately failed, in a few months time no one remembers who came second.
The longer this tournament went on the more bored I got with England, how sad is that!
He wants locking up for not going at Italy like we did in the first 10 minutes. Anytime we got chance to run at their defence they looked shaky.
I can't even begin to get excited about the WC if that's the crap Southgate dishes up again.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The England teams and campaigns of 1990 and 1996 are remembered with huge affection and pride, despite not progressing as far as this one. It's absurd to talk about success/failure in such absolute terms, especially when the dividing line is a couple of penalty kicks. And if you define failure as not being tournament champions, then nearly everyone is a failure (including Netherlands 1974 and Brazil 1982) and at that point the term becomes meaningless. To me Graham Taylor's and Steve Mclaren's teams were failures when they didn't manage to qualify. The best England performance in half a century with a team full of young players who will just get better is a failure I can be proud of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The dissapointment this time, at least fore, is that we could have wonnthe damp thing if Southgate hadn't instructed the team to sit back for 70 mind plus extra time, and had introduced Grealish, Sancho and Rashford sooner.
Page 1 of 3