comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 8 hours, 19 minutes ago
There are lots of exaggerations on what Jose left behind. It is really not as bad as what these posters are making it out to be. And it could be argued that Jose took over a much worse squad than the one Ole took over. Plus Jose’s two and a half year tenure as a whole has been objectively far better than following three and a half years under Ole.
--------------
People lie and exaggerate constantly. As you say, Ole took over a team capable of getting 81 points the previous season, and had won trophies.
He has failed to win any trophies, failed to better that points tally in the league, and exited the group stages of the champions league.
The team he inherited.
De Gea - 28 years old
Darmian - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Smalling - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Lindelof - 24 years old
Shaw - 23 years old
Matic - 30 years old
Herrera - 29 years old
Pogba - 25 years old
Rashford - 21 years old
Martial - 23 years old (Need replacing, not consistent)
Lukaka - 25 years old
Considering the 450 million pound spent, huge increase in salary, has Ole actually improved the first 11 that much? If a new manger came in the summer, he would inherit the below team.
De Gea - 31 years old
AWB - 24 years old (Needs replacing, crap)
Maguire - 29 years old
Varane - 29 years old
Shaw - 26 years old
Mctominay - 25 years old (Needs replacing)
Fred - 28 years old (Needs replacing)
Rashford - 24 years old
Pogba 29 years old (Needs replacing, leaving free)
Bruno- 28 years old
Ronaldo - 37 years old (Need replacing due age)
I think if I was a manager I would prefer to inherit the first team, if I got an extra 200 mill to spend, nevermind 450 million.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk about selective.
Lindelof needed replacing, which he has been.
Shaw's confidence was shot to hell. Jose had broken him.
Matic needed replacing.
Herrera's contact was coming to an end and he had decided to leave. Needed replacing.
Lukaku. Overweight, unfit , uninterested and openly talking about wanting to move to Italy. Needed replacing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
At the end of the day, “Ole is building a better squad squad for future” is one of those things people cling on to because there is literally nothing else to show for his tenure. Both Jose and LVG left behind a better squad than one they inherited but that wasn’t enough to keep them on the job. Same should apply to Ole.
You still see people claiming we should stick with Ole because we don’t want another Jose situation when Jose tenure as a whole has been objectively better in every way imaginable.
Club will do well to avoid another Ole or Moyes situation, not a Jose situation.
-------
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 8 hours, 19 minutes ago
There are lots of exaggerations on what Jose left behind. It is really not as bad as what these posters are making it out to be. And it could be argued that Jose took over a much worse squad than the one Ole took over. Plus Jose’s two and a half year tenure as a whole has been objectively far better than following three and a half years under Ole.
--------------
People lie and exaggerate constantly. As you say, Ole took over a team capable of getting 81 points the previous season, and had won trophies.
He has failed to win any trophies, failed to better that points tally in the league, and exited the group stages of the champions league.
The team he inherited.
De Gea - 28 years old
Darmian - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Smalling - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Lindelof - 24 years old
Shaw - 23 years old
Matic - 30 years old
Herrera - 29 years old
Pogba - 25 years old
Rashford - 21 years old
Martial - 23 years old (Need replacing, not consistent)
Lukaka - 25 years old
Considering the 450 million pound spent, huge increase in salary, has Ole actually improved the first 11 that much? If a new manger came in the summer, he would inherit the below team.
De Gea - 31 years old
AWB - 24 years old (Needs replacing, crap)
Maguire - 29 years old
Varane - 29 years old
Shaw - 26 years old
Mctominay - 25 years old (Needs replacing)
Fred - 28 years old (Needs replacing)
Rashford - 24 years old
Pogba 29 years old (Needs replacing, leaving free)
Bruno- 28 years old
Ronaldo - 37 years old (Need replacing due age)
I think if I was a manager I would prefer to inherit the first team, if I got an extra 200 mill to spend, nevermind 450 million.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk about selective.
Lindelof needed replacing, which he has been.
Shaw's confidence was shot to hell. Jose had broken him.
Matic needed replacing.
Herrera's contact was coming to an end and he had decided to leave. Needed replacing.
Lukaku. Overweight, unfit , uninterested and openly talking about wanting to move to Italy. Needed replacing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No a player had broken Shaws leg, literally... it was always going to take him a season or 2 to regain confidence and form.
A 30 year old Matic is still comfortably a better player than either fred or Mctominay are now.
We could easily have persuaded Herrera to stay with a new contact, again he is a far better cm than McFred.
Lukaka didn't need replacing, he just need a quality manager to instil confidence and motivation in him.
Again like I said, the team Ole inherited was very comparable in quality to the team the next manager will be inheriting.
This idea that Ole inherited a terrible group of players and the next manager will be inheriting an amazing team is laughable. Barely any difference in the quality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah, Shaw was completely demoralized. Even when he had a good game he had Jose saying that it was only because he told him what to do all game. Terrible management and Jose's obsession with Shaw was clear to see when he was working as a pundit. Shaw needed an arm around the should and Jose gave him the stick instead. Ole has got him performing much better.
Whether Matic is better than McT or Fred is irrelevant. None of them are good enough to be starting for United (McT is a good squad player) and need/needed replacing.
We couldn't persuade Herrera to stay. We tried, but he had already decided/agreed to join PSG. Herrera is on record as sating that Ole tried hard to get him to stay, but his decision was made.
Lukaku did need replacing. He was overweight and disinterested. Even his good mate Pogba had grown frustrated with him and was often pointing to areas on the pitch, telling him where should have been making his runs. When he came off the bench he was blowing our of his @rse after 15 minutes. It was embarrassing. And his agent had made two or three statements about how Lukaku wanted to move to Italy. He was angling for a move away and Ole did that right thing (for everyone) in letting him leave.
I will finish by saying that you are focusing on the team rather than the squad. The squad that Ole has put together has more depth and is more balanced than what he inherited. We still need a top DM for me, but other than that, we look in good shape. Especially with the group of talented youngsters that we have in the squad/pushing through from the academy.
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 40 minutes ago
At the end of the day, “Ole is building a better squad squad for future” is one of those things people cling on to because there is literally nothing else to show for his tenure. Both Jose and LVG left behind a better squad than one they inherited but that wasn’t enough to keep them on the job. Same should apply to Ole.
You still see people claiming we should stick with Ole because we don’t want another Jose situation when Jose tenure as a whole has been objectively better in every way imaginable.
Club will do well to avoid another Ole or Moyes situation, not a Jose situation.
-------
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's look at Jose's signings:
Eric Bailly - Not bad when fit, but never fit. Needed replacing by Meguire.
Zlatan - Good signing, but old and now gone. Not a signing for the next manager.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Not good enough, was moved on.
Paul Pogba - Not lived up to the hype but a decent enough signing.
Victor Lindelof - Not good enough. Had to sign Varane to upgrade him.
Lukaku - Not good enough. Needed replacing.
Matic - Not good enough. Squad player at best.
Sanchez - Terrible signing. What a waste of money.
Dalot - Not good enough. Needs replacing.
Fred - Not good enough, needs replacing.
Lee Grant - Ten a penny. Little impact on overall squad quality.
Oh yeh, Jose did a fantastic job strengthening the squad.
You can compare Ole’s signings and it isn’t all that better. It’s too early with recent signings but let’s compare others
Edinson Cavani - not a signing for the next manager
Daniel James - mediocre, and now sold
Bruno - fantastic signing, best since SAF left
McGuire - decent, but expected better given the price tag
AWB - mediocre, need to be replaced.
Ahmad- won’t get games in the next two seasons and probably be sold
Donny van de Beek - cannot get a game
So where is this amazing squad building? One fantastic signing and rest are meh
In anycase I don’t think recruitment is solely down to managers. Our scouting has been sub par. We bought players with such obvious deficiencies like AWB and Lindelof. Scouting has a lot to answer for failing transfers than management imo.
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
———————————-
Yeah, he had to go. Football was terrible, results were terrible and things were going off the rails. I have no issues with sacking Jose. I expect more consistency, but all I see is exaggerations and double standards.
Let’s be honest, Ole is an interim manager that long.. long out lived his purpose. Now it becoming a pointless exercise to keep.
With past managers, we can point to atleast one aspect of the game they improved. LVG improved the ability to keep the ball. Jose improved the ability to keep the defensive shape. What has Ole improved? Nothing. Three years for no observable improvement on the field, and all we hear is “progress”, “United way” and some other nonsensical buzz words.
It’s not like he is going to win a final against Klopp, Pep and Tuchel. There teams are far better drilled and better prepared, and those coaches are far better at in game management.
We are also no where near drilled enough as a team. So making a consistent run challenging for the league is out of the question.
So what is next? Good football? Mediocre teams regularly come to OT and dominate. There are atleast ten teams in the league that better at passing out from back.
So what does Ole do? What is his purpose? After three years I can’t think of anything.
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 minutes ago
You can compare Ole’s signings and it isn’t all that better. It’s too early with recent signings but let’s compare others
Edinson Cavani - not a signing for the next manager
Daniel James - mediocre, and now sold
Bruno - fantastic signing, best since SAF left
McGuire - decent, but expected better given the price tag
AWB - mediocre, need to be replaced.
Ahmad- won’t get games in the next two seasons and probably be sold
Donny van de Beek - cannot get a game
So where is this amazing squad building? One fantastic signing and rest are meh
In anycase I don’t think recruitment is solely down to managers. Our scouting has been sub par. We bought players with such obvious deficiencies like AWB and Lindelof. Scouting has a lot to answer for failing transfers than management imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meguire and Varane both come out in the top 10 CBs in world football in any list you care to take a look at. Stats back that up. 2 very good signings.
James wasn't good enough, but he served a purpose and we made a decent profit on him.
I'd agree about AWB. He doesn't look good enough on the ball for me. Other areas can be coached, but technically, not sure he will ever be good enough.
Sancho, VDB, Amad it is too soon to judge for me.
I think that a lot of the good work that Ole has done with the squad will become more apparent in the next few years as the younger first team players become more established (learning from the likes of Mara, Cavani and Ronaldo) and the even younger lads make their way through from the academy/U23s.
McGuire has deficiencies in his game that makes him less suitable for teams that play on the front foot. He has been decent so far, and far from the biggest issue in the first team. But by some miracle if we get the next few transfers right, club will look for another CB long term. So for 80 million worth slow CB, i don’t think it can be classed as a great signing, decent at best.
Agree about Varane. I think he will be a great signing, too early tell though.
VDB is a flop. He had more than a year to assimilate, and he couldn’t get a game ahead of aging Matic or Lingard. He won’t stay too long at United.
In anycase, our issue with the recruitment goes beyond managers. Time after time scouting and recruitment has let managers down. We sign too many players with such obvious deficiencies, and there doesn’t seem to be any changes.
We are crying out for a ball playing DM, and all reports suggests our main target is Declan Rice, who is worse at long range passing than Lindelof. It doesn’t make any sense.
So I don’t think the next manager will come in and start hovering up trophies. We still have too many weakness in the squad, and we have a very poor record of rectifying them.
We are crying out for a ball playing DM, and all reports suggests our main target is Declan Rice, who is worse at long range passing than Lindelof. It doesn’t make any sense.
……
You don’t need him to be a long range passing specialist. You need him to be decent at short and medium range. Which Fred and McT are very careless at.
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
———————————-
Yeah, he had to go. Football was terrible, results were terrible and things were going off the rails. I have no issues with sacking Jose. I expect more consistency, but all I see is exaggerations and double standards.
Let’s be honest, Ole is an interim manager that long.. long out lived his purpose. Now it becoming a pointless exercise to keep.
With past managers, we can point to atleast one aspect of the game they improved. LVG improved the ability to keep the ball. Jose improved the ability to keep the defensive shape. What has Ole improved? Nothing. Three years for no observable improvement on the field, and all we hear is “progress”, “United way” and some other nonsensical buzz words.
It’s not like he is going to win a final against Klopp, Pep and Tuchel. There teams are far better drilled and better prepared, and those coaches are far better at in game management.
We are also no where near drilled enough as a team. So making a consistent run challenging for the league is out of the question.
So what is next? Good football? Mediocre teams regularly come to OT and dominate. There are atleast ten teams in the league that better at passing out from back.
So what does Ole do? What is his purpose? After three years I can’t think of anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He definetly improved the atmosphere around the club.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 minutes ago
You can compare Ole’s signings and it isn’t all that better. It’s too early with recent signings but let’s compare others
Edinson Cavani - not a signing for the next manager
Daniel James - mediocre, and now sold
Bruno - fantastic signing, best since SAF left
McGuire - decent, but expected better given the price tag
AWB - mediocre, need to be replaced.
Ahmad- won’t get games in the next two seasons and probably be sold
Donny van de Beek - cannot get a game
So where is this amazing squad building? One fantastic signing and rest are meh
In anycase I don’t think recruitment is solely down to managers. Our scouting has been sub par. We bought players with such obvious deficiencies like AWB and Lindelof. Scouting has a lot to answer for failing transfers than management imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meguire and Varane both come out in the top 10 CBs in world football in any list you care to take a look at. Stats back that up. 2 very good signings.
James wasn't good enough, but he served a purpose and we made a decent profit on him.
I'd agree about AWB. He doesn't look good enough on the ball for me. Other areas can be coached, but technically, not sure he will ever be good enough.
Sancho, VDB, Amad it is too soon to judge for me.
I think that a lot of the good work that Ole has done with the squad will become more apparent in the next few years as the younger first team players become more established (learning from the likes of Mara, Cavani and Ronaldo) and the even younger lads make their way through from the academy/U23s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who are these younger first team players you expect to establish themsleves in the next few years that arent already?
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
We are crying out for a ball playing DM, and all reports suggests our main target is Declan Rice, who is worse at long range passing than Lindelof. It doesn’t make any sense.
……
You don’t need him to be a long range passing specialist. You need him to be decent at short and medium range. Which Fred and McT are very careless at.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice isn’t all that good at medium range passing either.
With the CMs we have, incoming DM needs to be good at passing in order to build a cohesive team. So it doesn’t make any sense to target a DM whose weakness is passing.
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
———————————-
Yeah, he had to go. Football was terrible, results were terrible and things were going off the rails. I have no issues with sacking Jose. I expect more consistency, but all I see is exaggerations and double standards.
Let’s be honest, Ole is an interim manager that long.. long out lived his purpose. Now it becoming a pointless exercise to keep.
With past managers, we can point to atleast one aspect of the game they improved. LVG improved the ability to keep the ball. Jose improved the ability to keep the defensive shape. What has Ole improved? Nothing. Three years for no observable improvement on the field, and all we hear is “progress”, “United way” and some other nonsensical buzz words.
It’s not like he is going to win a final against Klopp, Pep and Tuchel. There teams are far better drilled and better prepared, and those coaches are far better at in game management.
We are also no where near drilled enough as a team. So making a consistent run challenging for the league is out of the question.
So what is next? Good football? Mediocre teams regularly come to OT and dominate. There are atleast ten teams in the league that better at passing out from back.
So what does Ole do? What is his purpose? After three years I can’t think of anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He definetly improved the atmosphere around the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define improving the atmosphere?
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Recruitment
Page 3 of 3
posted on 29/9/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 8 hours, 19 minutes ago
There are lots of exaggerations on what Jose left behind. It is really not as bad as what these posters are making it out to be. And it could be argued that Jose took over a much worse squad than the one Ole took over. Plus Jose’s two and a half year tenure as a whole has been objectively far better than following three and a half years under Ole.
--------------
People lie and exaggerate constantly. As you say, Ole took over a team capable of getting 81 points the previous season, and had won trophies.
He has failed to win any trophies, failed to better that points tally in the league, and exited the group stages of the champions league.
The team he inherited.
De Gea - 28 years old
Darmian - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Smalling - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Lindelof - 24 years old
Shaw - 23 years old
Matic - 30 years old
Herrera - 29 years old
Pogba - 25 years old
Rashford - 21 years old
Martial - 23 years old (Need replacing, not consistent)
Lukaka - 25 years old
Considering the 450 million pound spent, huge increase in salary, has Ole actually improved the first 11 that much? If a new manger came in the summer, he would inherit the below team.
De Gea - 31 years old
AWB - 24 years old (Needs replacing, crap)
Maguire - 29 years old
Varane - 29 years old
Shaw - 26 years old
Mctominay - 25 years old (Needs replacing)
Fred - 28 years old (Needs replacing)
Rashford - 24 years old
Pogba 29 years old (Needs replacing, leaving free)
Bruno- 28 years old
Ronaldo - 37 years old (Need replacing due age)
I think if I was a manager I would prefer to inherit the first team, if I got an extra 200 mill to spend, nevermind 450 million.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk about selective.
Lindelof needed replacing, which he has been.
Shaw's confidence was shot to hell. Jose had broken him.
Matic needed replacing.
Herrera's contact was coming to an end and he had decided to leave. Needed replacing.
Lukaku. Overweight, unfit , uninterested and openly talking about wanting to move to Italy. Needed replacing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 29/9/21
At the end of the day, “Ole is building a better squad squad for future” is one of those things people cling on to because there is literally nothing else to show for his tenure. Both Jose and LVG left behind a better squad than one they inherited but that wasn’t enough to keep them on the job. Same should apply to Ole.
You still see people claiming we should stick with Ole because we don’t want another Jose situation when Jose tenure as a whole has been objectively better in every way imaginable.
Club will do well to avoid another Ole or Moyes situation, not a Jose situation.
-------
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
posted on 29/9/21
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 54 minutes ago
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 8 hours, 19 minutes ago
There are lots of exaggerations on what Jose left behind. It is really not as bad as what these posters are making it out to be. And it could be argued that Jose took over a much worse squad than the one Ole took over. Plus Jose’s two and a half year tenure as a whole has been objectively far better than following three and a half years under Ole.
--------------
People lie and exaggerate constantly. As you say, Ole took over a team capable of getting 81 points the previous season, and had won trophies.
He has failed to win any trophies, failed to better that points tally in the league, and exited the group stages of the champions league.
The team he inherited.
De Gea - 28 years old
Darmian - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Smalling - 29 years old (Need replacing)
Lindelof - 24 years old
Shaw - 23 years old
Matic - 30 years old
Herrera - 29 years old
Pogba - 25 years old
Rashford - 21 years old
Martial - 23 years old (Need replacing, not consistent)
Lukaka - 25 years old
Considering the 450 million pound spent, huge increase in salary, has Ole actually improved the first 11 that much? If a new manger came in the summer, he would inherit the below team.
De Gea - 31 years old
AWB - 24 years old (Needs replacing, crap)
Maguire - 29 years old
Varane - 29 years old
Shaw - 26 years old
Mctominay - 25 years old (Needs replacing)
Fred - 28 years old (Needs replacing)
Rashford - 24 years old
Pogba 29 years old (Needs replacing, leaving free)
Bruno- 28 years old
Ronaldo - 37 years old (Need replacing due age)
I think if I was a manager I would prefer to inherit the first team, if I got an extra 200 mill to spend, nevermind 450 million.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk about selective.
Lindelof needed replacing, which he has been.
Shaw's confidence was shot to hell. Jose had broken him.
Matic needed replacing.
Herrera's contact was coming to an end and he had decided to leave. Needed replacing.
Lukaku. Overweight, unfit , uninterested and openly talking about wanting to move to Italy. Needed replacing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No a player had broken Shaws leg, literally... it was always going to take him a season or 2 to regain confidence and form.
A 30 year old Matic is still comfortably a better player than either fred or Mctominay are now.
We could easily have persuaded Herrera to stay with a new contact, again he is a far better cm than McFred.
Lukaka didn't need replacing, he just need a quality manager to instil confidence and motivation in him.
Again like I said, the team Ole inherited was very comparable in quality to the team the next manager will be inheriting.
This idea that Ole inherited a terrible group of players and the next manager will be inheriting an amazing team is laughable. Barely any difference in the quality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah, Shaw was completely demoralized. Even when he had a good game he had Jose saying that it was only because he told him what to do all game. Terrible management and Jose's obsession with Shaw was clear to see when he was working as a pundit. Shaw needed an arm around the should and Jose gave him the stick instead. Ole has got him performing much better.
Whether Matic is better than McT or Fred is irrelevant. None of them are good enough to be starting for United (McT is a good squad player) and need/needed replacing.
We couldn't persuade Herrera to stay. We tried, but he had already decided/agreed to join PSG. Herrera is on record as sating that Ole tried hard to get him to stay, but his decision was made.
Lukaku did need replacing. He was overweight and disinterested. Even his good mate Pogba had grown frustrated with him and was often pointing to areas on the pitch, telling him where should have been making his runs. When he came off the bench he was blowing our of his @rse after 15 minutes. It was embarrassing. And his agent had made two or three statements about how Lukaku wanted to move to Italy. He was angling for a move away and Ole did that right thing (for everyone) in letting him leave.
I will finish by saying that you are focusing on the team rather than the squad. The squad that Ole has put together has more depth and is more balanced than what he inherited. We still need a top DM for me, but other than that, we look in good shape. Especially with the group of talented youngsters that we have in the squad/pushing through from the academy.
posted on 29/9/21
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 40 minutes ago
At the end of the day, “Ole is building a better squad squad for future” is one of those things people cling on to because there is literally nothing else to show for his tenure. Both Jose and LVG left behind a better squad than one they inherited but that wasn’t enough to keep them on the job. Same should apply to Ole.
You still see people claiming we should stick with Ole because we don’t want another Jose situation when Jose tenure as a whole has been objectively better in every way imaginable.
Club will do well to avoid another Ole or Moyes situation, not a Jose situation.
-------
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's look at Jose's signings:
Eric Bailly - Not bad when fit, but never fit. Needed replacing by Meguire.
Zlatan - Good signing, but old and now gone. Not a signing for the next manager.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Not good enough, was moved on.
Paul Pogba - Not lived up to the hype but a decent enough signing.
Victor Lindelof - Not good enough. Had to sign Varane to upgrade him.
Lukaku - Not good enough. Needed replacing.
Matic - Not good enough. Squad player at best.
Sanchez - Terrible signing. What a waste of money.
Dalot - Not good enough. Needs replacing.
Fred - Not good enough, needs replacing.
Lee Grant - Ten a penny. Little impact on overall squad quality.
Oh yeh, Jose did a fantastic job strengthening the squad.
posted on 29/9/21
You can compare Ole’s signings and it isn’t all that better. It’s too early with recent signings but let’s compare others
Edinson Cavani - not a signing for the next manager
Daniel James - mediocre, and now sold
Bruno - fantastic signing, best since SAF left
McGuire - decent, but expected better given the price tag
AWB - mediocre, need to be replaced.
Ahmad- won’t get games in the next two seasons and probably be sold
Donny van de Beek - cannot get a game
So where is this amazing squad building? One fantastic signing and rest are meh
In anycase I don’t think recruitment is solely down to managers. Our scouting has been sub par. We bought players with such obvious deficiencies like AWB and Lindelof. Scouting has a lot to answer for failing transfers than management imo.
posted on 29/9/21
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
———————————-
Yeah, he had to go. Football was terrible, results were terrible and things were going off the rails. I have no issues with sacking Jose. I expect more consistency, but all I see is exaggerations and double standards.
Let’s be honest, Ole is an interim manager that long.. long out lived his purpose. Now it becoming a pointless exercise to keep.
With past managers, we can point to atleast one aspect of the game they improved. LVG improved the ability to keep the ball. Jose improved the ability to keep the defensive shape. What has Ole improved? Nothing. Three years for no observable improvement on the field, and all we hear is “progress”, “United way” and some other nonsensical buzz words.
It’s not like he is going to win a final against Klopp, Pep and Tuchel. There teams are far better drilled and better prepared, and those coaches are far better at in game management.
We are also no where near drilled enough as a team. So making a consistent run challenging for the league is out of the question.
So what is next? Good football? Mediocre teams regularly come to OT and dominate. There are atleast ten teams in the league that better at passing out from back.
So what does Ole do? What is his purpose? After three years I can’t think of anything.
posted on 29/9/21
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 minutes ago
You can compare Ole’s signings and it isn’t all that better. It’s too early with recent signings but let’s compare others
Edinson Cavani - not a signing for the next manager
Daniel James - mediocre, and now sold
Bruno - fantastic signing, best since SAF left
McGuire - decent, but expected better given the price tag
AWB - mediocre, need to be replaced.
Ahmad- won’t get games in the next two seasons and probably be sold
Donny van de Beek - cannot get a game
So where is this amazing squad building? One fantastic signing and rest are meh
In anycase I don’t think recruitment is solely down to managers. Our scouting has been sub par. We bought players with such obvious deficiencies like AWB and Lindelof. Scouting has a lot to answer for failing transfers than management imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meguire and Varane both come out in the top 10 CBs in world football in any list you care to take a look at. Stats back that up. 2 very good signings.
James wasn't good enough, but he served a purpose and we made a decent profit on him.
I'd agree about AWB. He doesn't look good enough on the ball for me. Other areas can be coached, but technically, not sure he will ever be good enough.
Sancho, VDB, Amad it is too soon to judge for me.
I think that a lot of the good work that Ole has done with the squad will become more apparent in the next few years as the younger first team players become more established (learning from the likes of Mara, Cavani and Ronaldo) and the even younger lads make their way through from the academy/U23s.
posted on 29/9/21
McGuire has deficiencies in his game that makes him less suitable for teams that play on the front foot. He has been decent so far, and far from the biggest issue in the first team. But by some miracle if we get the next few transfers right, club will look for another CB long term. So for 80 million worth slow CB, i don’t think it can be classed as a great signing, decent at best.
Agree about Varane. I think he will be a great signing, too early tell though.
VDB is a flop. He had more than a year to assimilate, and he couldn’t get a game ahead of aging Matic or Lingard. He won’t stay too long at United.
In anycase, our issue with the recruitment goes beyond managers. Time after time scouting and recruitment has let managers down. We sign too many players with such obvious deficiencies, and there doesn’t seem to be any changes.
We are crying out for a ball playing DM, and all reports suggests our main target is Declan Rice, who is worse at long range passing than Lindelof. It doesn’t make any sense.
So I don’t think the next manager will come in and start hovering up trophies. We still have too many weakness in the squad, and we have a very poor record of rectifying them.
posted on 29/9/21
We are crying out for a ball playing DM, and all reports suggests our main target is Declan Rice, who is worse at long range passing than Lindelof. It doesn’t make any sense.
……
You don’t need him to be a long range passing specialist. You need him to be decent at short and medium range. Which Fred and McT are very careless at.
posted on 29/9/21
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
———————————-
Yeah, he had to go. Football was terrible, results were terrible and things were going off the rails. I have no issues with sacking Jose. I expect more consistency, but all I see is exaggerations and double standards.
Let’s be honest, Ole is an interim manager that long.. long out lived his purpose. Now it becoming a pointless exercise to keep.
With past managers, we can point to atleast one aspect of the game they improved. LVG improved the ability to keep the ball. Jose improved the ability to keep the defensive shape. What has Ole improved? Nothing. Three years for no observable improvement on the field, and all we hear is “progress”, “United way” and some other nonsensical buzz words.
It’s not like he is going to win a final against Klopp, Pep and Tuchel. There teams are far better drilled and better prepared, and those coaches are far better at in game management.
We are also no where near drilled enough as a team. So making a consistent run challenging for the league is out of the question.
So what is next? Good football? Mediocre teams regularly come to OT and dominate. There are atleast ten teams in the league that better at passing out from back.
So what does Ole do? What is his purpose? After three years I can’t think of anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He definetly improved the atmosphere around the club.
posted on 29/9/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 minutes ago
You can compare Ole’s signings and it isn’t all that better. It’s too early with recent signings but let’s compare others
Edinson Cavani - not a signing for the next manager
Daniel James - mediocre, and now sold
Bruno - fantastic signing, best since SAF left
McGuire - decent, but expected better given the price tag
AWB - mediocre, need to be replaced.
Ahmad- won’t get games in the next two seasons and probably be sold
Donny van de Beek - cannot get a game
So where is this amazing squad building? One fantastic signing and rest are meh
In anycase I don’t think recruitment is solely down to managers. Our scouting has been sub par. We bought players with such obvious deficiencies like AWB and Lindelof. Scouting has a lot to answer for failing transfers than management imo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meguire and Varane both come out in the top 10 CBs in world football in any list you care to take a look at. Stats back that up. 2 very good signings.
James wasn't good enough, but he served a purpose and we made a decent profit on him.
I'd agree about AWB. He doesn't look good enough on the ball for me. Other areas can be coached, but technically, not sure he will ever be good enough.
Sancho, VDB, Amad it is too soon to judge for me.
I think that a lot of the good work that Ole has done with the squad will become more apparent in the next few years as the younger first team players become more established (learning from the likes of Mara, Cavani and Ronaldo) and the even younger lads make their way through from the academy/U23s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who are these younger first team players you expect to establish themsleves in the next few years that arent already?
posted on 29/9/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
We are crying out for a ball playing DM, and all reports suggests our main target is Declan Rice, who is worse at long range passing than Lindelof. It doesn’t make any sense.
……
You don’t need him to be a long range passing specialist. You need him to be decent at short and medium range. Which Fred and McT are very careless at.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rice isn’t all that good at medium range passing either.
With the CMs we have, incoming DM needs to be good at passing in order to build a cohesive team. So it doesn’t make any sense to target a DM whose weakness is passing.
posted on 29/9/21
comment by Don (U22703)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by The Luke Show (U8522)
posted 2 hours, 36 minutes ago
100 percent true.
I did think it was time for Jose to go because he had lost the changing room and the plot a bit towards the end. But as you say, he improved the squad far more than Ole has managed to do, whilst spending less, and winning trophies. And yet people persist with this notion that Ole has done an amazing job "rebuilding for the future".
Laughable
———————————-
Yeah, he had to go. Football was terrible, results were terrible and things were going off the rails. I have no issues with sacking Jose. I expect more consistency, but all I see is exaggerations and double standards.
Let’s be honest, Ole is an interim manager that long.. long out lived his purpose. Now it becoming a pointless exercise to keep.
With past managers, we can point to atleast one aspect of the game they improved. LVG improved the ability to keep the ball. Jose improved the ability to keep the defensive shape. What has Ole improved? Nothing. Three years for no observable improvement on the field, and all we hear is “progress”, “United way” and some other nonsensical buzz words.
It’s not like he is going to win a final against Klopp, Pep and Tuchel. There teams are far better drilled and better prepared, and those coaches are far better at in game management.
We are also no where near drilled enough as a team. So making a consistent run challenging for the league is out of the question.
So what is next? Good football? Mediocre teams regularly come to OT and dominate. There are atleast ten teams in the league that better at passing out from back.
So what does Ole do? What is his purpose? After three years I can’t think of anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He definetly improved the atmosphere around the club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define improving the atmosphere?
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