comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
|ts never a dive from Foden. Anyone running who has their heels clipped will struggle to keep balance and while he does kinda trip himself up that comes from the contact of the defender.
comment by Macca: Emily Bishop's love child (U8194)
posted 27 minutes ago
If Henderson has been deemed as the original foul but an advantage was played then Milners trip becomes active and was a Yellow. The ref only blew his whistle after the Milner foul.
You can't ignore the second foul if it is a bookable offense which everyone knows it was. By the logic of some on here that only the Henderson foul can be considered and what happens after the so called advantage is played doesn't count is nuts.
What if Milner had broken the players leg or punched him. Are you saying that is ignored?
Come on, you know that's not right and the ref bottled it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not being based off anything other than what happens regularly. Advantage was played, there was no advantage so it goes back to the initial infringement.
Also, do you not remember when Pickford injured Van Djik last season but nothing happened because there was an offside in the build up? Injured him for the season for a reckless tackle and he wasn't sent off because the incident was after the player was offside, so it went back to initial infringement as anything after that is deemed as off field.
Milner is a very canny player.
He knew if he fouled Foden just outside the box, it would just be a free kick and a yellow.
I imagine even he was amazed that neither were given.
Im not sure the ref "bottled it". He clearly made an error, I think every liverpool fan on here has acknowledged we got away with 1 but how do you bottle it?
Bottling it implies hes bowed to lfc fan pressure. If you watch it back when the foul is given the crowd dont make much noise, probably because they were all expecting the 2nd yellow.
The refs made a howler of a mistake, only he knows why but I really dont see how its a bottle job.
I take the old fashioned view that players already on a yellow should be given a warning and shown leniency.
What annoys me most, is that Milner would have been booked had he not been on a yellow card. Cleary bottled it and shouldn't be allowed to officiate a big game again unless he admits that he bottled it. Shocking decision
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
comment by Edinpotter (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
The VAR implementation is good. The Foden foul was outside of the box and thus wasn’t a significant event.
VAR should, and always should, be used for significant errors. Not for non reckless free kicks or deciding corners or whatever. There’s a level of ‘letting stuff go’ that should be allowed in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with u for the most port but foden would have been 1 on 1 with the keeper. Was definitely a significant event
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
Personally I'd like to see refs use the video replays a bit more regularly even if not instructed to.
The second yellow that wasn't is a good example. At game pace you could see instantly it was a foul but then Henderson was the player mouthing off at Bernardo, I wondered whether it was his foul. As a Liverpool fan I was a but concerned it was a second yellow but only when I saw the replay that it registered as a cynical 100% yellow.
If the ref takes 15 seconds to look at the monitor, Milner is off. No question.
I really can't explain the 'non-foul' on Foden either. I can only assume the ref thought Foden dived. But why would he? Odd decision. But again, 15 seconds and Milner gets a yellow and City have a dangerous free kick.
I would like to see refs taking responsibility for using the technology available rather than just waiting for VAR to tell them to. If that's even allowed? If not, it should be imo.
“I’m not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?”
Everything in Fodens movement is him trying to play on though, it makes no sense to initiate contact and then try and get up from it.
VAR would initially just look at if it’s inside the box or not. It’s only if they decide it is that they then properly look at the foul itself. That’s if he gave a foul and a yellow card. If he’d given a red, they’d have looked at both.
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
Im not sure the ref "bottled it". He clearly made an error, I think every liverpool fan on here has acknowledged we got away with 1 but how do you bottle it?
Bottling it implies hes bowed to lfc fan pressure. If you watch it back when the foul is given the crowd dont make much noise, probably because they were all expecting the 2nd yellow.
The refs made a howler of a mistake, only he knows why but I really dont see how its a bottle job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bottled it means he avoided making what would have been a very unpopular decision with the home fans....which is exactly what he did. He knew his VAR comfort blanket wasnt there in case he got it wrong as it was just a yellow, so he avoided the decision.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
That vid at the 46 second mark, he actually moves his right leg away from Milner as if he’s try to evade contact. If he’s looking to initiate it, then he’d do the complete opposite.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wayda miss the point.
VAR is there to help. It can help in many ways and although we do not want it constantly intervening and breaking up play, it should be in the refs control to consult it where they may not be sure, or have the best view of something.
Refs are only human and the action is fast. Tierney was 100ft away from that clip of Foden's heels and he probably didnt have the best view or angle. Big moment like that he should be able to refer to VAR/TVscreen to get the decision right. They way VAR is used now it has to be a big error for it to be reviewed and only then in some circumstances. That may not have been a pen or a red card but it is a big moment in the game.
The technology is there they should use it instead of getting it wrong still.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wayda miss the point.
VAR is there to help. It can help in many ways and although we do not want it constantly intervening and breaking up play, it should be in the refs control to consult it where they may not be sure, or have the best view of something.
Refs are only human and the action is fast. Tierney was 100ft away from that clip of Foden's heels and he probably didnt have the best view or angle. Big moment like that he should be able to refer to VAR/TVscreen to get the decision right. They way VAR is used now it has to be a big error for it to be reviewed and only then in some circumstances. That may not have been a pen or a red card but it is a big moment in the game.
The technology is there they should use it instead of getting it wrong still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So where is the line? Does that line then move further, when people start crying for VAR on the halfway line, a yellow card? It was brought in for major decisions not a freekick and a yellow card. I do think it could be used for second bookings but I don't see how you can go further than that? Corner decisions? Throw-ins?
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wayda miss the point.
VAR is there to help. It can help in many ways and although we do not want it constantly intervening and breaking up play, it should be in the refs control to consult it where they may not be sure, or have the best view of something.
Refs are only human and the action is fast. Tierney was 100ft away from that clip of Foden's heels and he probably didnt have the best view or angle. Big moment like that he should be able to refer to VAR/TVscreen to get the decision right. They way VAR is used now it has to be a big error for it to be reviewed and only then in some circumstances. That may not have been a pen or a red card but it is a big moment in the game.
The technology is there they should use it instead of getting it wrong still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So where is the line? Does that line then move further, when people start crying for VAR on the halfway line, a yellow card? It was brought in for major decisions not a freekick and a yellow card. I do think it could be used for second bookings but I don't see how you can go further than that? Corner decisions? Throw-ins?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its an interesting debate because you could argue that a corner or a goal kick, wrongly given can have a massive impact on a game and we have technology that can get the right decision swiftly in these balck & white situations.
In cases like the Foden one, or anywhere on the pitch really, i think maybe a team could have a couple appeals, like cricket. Where they are basically asking for a ruling on a decision. This would be even better if part of a process/discussion between the ref/VAR which is audible, so one can at least hear and understand their reasoning. With subjective decisions people will hold different views but i think it would be useful to hear the refs/VARs reasoning.
I have met a few refs in my time (not elite level) and a common thing is that they are defensive and do not willingly admit to making a mistake. Probably comes from years of abuse by players/fans but if the system let them admit when they perhaps were unable to make the best decision, and rectify it then great. They become less beleaguered and ultimately more correct decisions would result.
https://twitter.com/kellyasco/status/1445465558510567429?s=21
Actually milner got the ball, and diverted way before Bernardo Silva went over Milners leg.
No he really didn’t. Even the video you’ve shown there shows it if you scrub along it and focus on the ball. If you have a look at the longer analysis, then you’ll see from other angles how big a gap there actually is between the ball and Milners leg.
Oh it was a wum?
Fair enough, not really sure of the point!
Sign in if you want to comment
Milner Red Card.....
Page 2 of 3
posted on 4/10/21
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
posted on 4/10/21
|ts never a dive from Foden. Anyone running who has their heels clipped will struggle to keep balance and while he does kinda trip himself up that comes from the contact of the defender.
posted on 4/10/21
comment by Macca: Emily Bishop's love child (U8194)
posted 27 minutes ago
If Henderson has been deemed as the original foul but an advantage was played then Milners trip becomes active and was a Yellow. The ref only blew his whistle after the Milner foul.
You can't ignore the second foul if it is a bookable offense which everyone knows it was. By the logic of some on here that only the Henderson foul can be considered and what happens after the so called advantage is played doesn't count is nuts.
What if Milner had broken the players leg or punched him. Are you saying that is ignored?
Come on, you know that's not right and the ref bottled it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not being based off anything other than what happens regularly. Advantage was played, there was no advantage so it goes back to the initial infringement.
Also, do you not remember when Pickford injured Van Djik last season but nothing happened because there was an offside in the build up? Injured him for the season for a reckless tackle and he wasn't sent off because the incident was after the player was offside, so it went back to initial infringement as anything after that is deemed as off field.
posted on 4/10/21
Milner is a very canny player.
He knew if he fouled Foden just outside the box, it would just be a free kick and a yellow.
I imagine even he was amazed that neither were given.
posted on 4/10/21
Im not sure the ref "bottled it". He clearly made an error, I think every liverpool fan on here has acknowledged we got away with 1 but how do you bottle it?
Bottling it implies hes bowed to lfc fan pressure. If you watch it back when the foul is given the crowd dont make much noise, probably because they were all expecting the 2nd yellow.
The refs made a howler of a mistake, only he knows why but I really dont see how its a bottle job.
posted on 4/10/21
I take the old fashioned view that players already on a yellow should be given a warning and shown leniency.
posted on 4/10/21
What annoys me most, is that Milner would have been booked had he not been on a yellow card. Cleary bottled it and shouldn't be allowed to officiate a big game again unless he admits that he bottled it. Shocking decision
posted on 4/10/21
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
posted on 4/10/21
comment by Edinpotter (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
The VAR implementation is good. The Foden foul was outside of the box and thus wasn’t a significant event.
VAR should, and always should, be used for significant errors. Not for non reckless free kicks or deciding corners or whatever. There’s a level of ‘letting stuff go’ that should be allowed in football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with u for the most port but foden would have been 1 on 1 with the keeper. Was definitely a significant event
posted on 4/10/21
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
posted on 4/10/21
Personally I'd like to see refs use the video replays a bit more regularly even if not instructed to.
The second yellow that wasn't is a good example. At game pace you could see instantly it was a foul but then Henderson was the player mouthing off at Bernardo, I wondered whether it was his foul. As a Liverpool fan I was a but concerned it was a second yellow but only when I saw the replay that it registered as a cynical 100% yellow.
If the ref takes 15 seconds to look at the monitor, Milner is off. No question.
I really can't explain the 'non-foul' on Foden either. I can only assume the ref thought Foden dived. But why would he? Odd decision. But again, 15 seconds and Milner gets a yellow and City have a dangerous free kick.
I would like to see refs taking responsibility for using the technology available rather than just waiting for VAR to tell them to. If that's even allowed? If not, it should be imo.
posted on 4/10/21
“I’m not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?”
Everything in Fodens movement is him trying to play on though, it makes no sense to initiate contact and then try and get up from it.
VAR would initially just look at if it’s inside the box or not. It’s only if they decide it is that they then properly look at the foul itself. That’s if he gave a foul and a yellow card. If he’d given a red, they’d have looked at both.
posted on 4/10/21
comment by Mellor, Lovely Cushioned Header, FOR GERRARD, ... (U1859)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
Im not sure the ref "bottled it". He clearly made an error, I think every liverpool fan on here has acknowledged we got away with 1 but how do you bottle it?
Bottling it implies hes bowed to lfc fan pressure. If you watch it back when the foul is given the crowd dont make much noise, probably because they were all expecting the 2nd yellow.
The refs made a howler of a mistake, only he knows why but I really dont see how its a bottle job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
bottled it means he avoided making what would have been a very unpopular decision with the home fans....which is exactly what he did. He knew his VAR comfort blanket wasnt there in case he got it wrong as it was just a yellow, so he avoided the decision.
posted on 4/10/21
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
posted on 4/10/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
posted on 4/10/21
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
posted on 4/10/21
That vid at the 46 second mark, he actually moves his right leg away from Milner as if he’s try to evade contact. If he’s looking to initiate it, then he’d do the complete opposite.
posted on 4/10/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
posted on 5/10/21
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wayda miss the point.
VAR is there to help. It can help in many ways and although we do not want it constantly intervening and breaking up play, it should be in the refs control to consult it where they may not be sure, or have the best view of something.
Refs are only human and the action is fast. Tierney was 100ft away from that clip of Foden's heels and he probably didnt have the best view or angle. Big moment like that he should be able to refer to VAR/TVscreen to get the decision right. They way VAR is used now it has to be a big error for it to be reviewed and only then in some circumstances. That may not have been a pen or a red card but it is a big moment in the game.
The technology is there they should use it instead of getting it wrong still.
posted on 5/10/21
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wayda miss the point.
VAR is there to help. It can help in many ways and although we do not want it constantly intervening and breaking up play, it should be in the refs control to consult it where they may not be sure, or have the best view of something.
Refs are only human and the action is fast. Tierney was 100ft away from that clip of Foden's heels and he probably didnt have the best view or angle. Big moment like that he should be able to refer to VAR/TVscreen to get the decision right. They way VAR is used now it has to be a big error for it to be reviewed and only then in some circumstances. That may not have been a pen or a red card but it is a big moment in the game.
The technology is there they should use it instead of getting it wrong still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So where is the line? Does that line then move further, when people start crying for VAR on the halfway line, a yellow card? It was brought in for major decisions not a freekick and a yellow card. I do think it could be used for second bookings but I don't see how you can go further than that? Corner decisions? Throw-ins?
posted on 5/10/21
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 14 hours ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 48 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 15 minutes ago
If he’d have slowed to a stop, he wouldn’t have still had the forward momentum to get up and try and keep playing like he did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realise he was a brick wall, apologies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes because that’s clearly an either or!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Will yes, if you stop and contact is made with another player, you're going to find it very difficult not to move forward. I'm not saying he dived or anything like that, just that it looked to me like he initiated the contact and kept the leg in to ensure it. If I were the referee I probably would have given the free kick and therefore a yellow as I couldn't have made up my mind without a replay. Perhaps he thought it was in the box and therefore VAR would have alerted him if they thought a mistake was made.
I'm not sure of this is possible but an interesting scenario would have been if he gave a penalty. VAR would have alerted him to the error. Does he then get to decide if it's even a foul, a freekick and therefore a booking or does he have to stick with the foul as they're only checking whether it was inside the box or not?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you watch Foden's control of the ball its not perfect, his first touch is good, then his second is not great, he's almost stumbling and then he has to adjust as it gets a bit under his feet, which is when Milner catches him. He didnt slow down to get contact, he shortened his stride to try and take the ball in his stride.
Regardless Milner sticks his foot in, gets nowhere near the ball and knocks Fodens legs together making him fall....best seen from the behind camera angle.
There is simply no defence as to why VAR doesn't get that right.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1444696632759660562
One of the problems is that when VAR refers something it is almost always going to change the refs mind and anyone watching knows the moment the ref goes to the screen then the decision will be changed.
What should happen IMO is the ref goes to teh screen. The VAR ref explains what he has seen to make him look at it and the ref watches and gives his explanation to the VAR. All this should be audible like it is in rugby.
People will accept an explained decision much more than a decision that is made without any explanation or accountability.
The other problem here is the ref is miles away. When Foden gets the ball hes 30+ yards away from the ref who, undoubtedly, gets no closer to the action when quite a small but telling contact happens.
Refs should be big enough and allowed to refer such things themselves if they did not think they had the best view and the VAR should be asking that question...did you have a clear view.
It should all be a team process but it seems like VAR is trying desperately to not undermine refs and refs, as ever, are too pigheaded and defensive to admit to an error and seek assistance.
The system could be worked much much better and be more accountable, which would give a much better experience for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this is nothing to do with VAR. If the referee gave a penalty they could only have got involved then, to alert him of his error.
Having seen the slow motion replay you posted it still looks to me like he may have initiated the contact and left his leg in, hoping for a penalty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mate, Milner goes for the ball and misses hitting the player. Doesnt matter what Foden does, he entices the challenge and the challenge is poor and its a genuine stumble to the ground and not a dive.
As for VAR, this is the area where its not clear enough. Its no pen/foul probably because the ref is bloody miles away from the action. Not his fault as its fast moving but VAR is there to help and they should be able to assist. It should not be the case that he has to give a penalty to enable him to have another look at it. Particularly as it is a very marginal decision anyway as to whether its in or out of teh area.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The simple fact is VAR is nothing to do with freekick decisions, unless there is mistaken identity or a red card involved. Therefore VAR couldn't intervene.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wayda miss the point.
VAR is there to help. It can help in many ways and although we do not want it constantly intervening and breaking up play, it should be in the refs control to consult it where they may not be sure, or have the best view of something.
Refs are only human and the action is fast. Tierney was 100ft away from that clip of Foden's heels and he probably didnt have the best view or angle. Big moment like that he should be able to refer to VAR/TVscreen to get the decision right. They way VAR is used now it has to be a big error for it to be reviewed and only then in some circumstances. That may not have been a pen or a red card but it is a big moment in the game.
The technology is there they should use it instead of getting it wrong still.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So where is the line? Does that line then move further, when people start crying for VAR on the halfway line, a yellow card? It was brought in for major decisions not a freekick and a yellow card. I do think it could be used for second bookings but I don't see how you can go further than that? Corner decisions? Throw-ins?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its an interesting debate because you could argue that a corner or a goal kick, wrongly given can have a massive impact on a game and we have technology that can get the right decision swiftly in these balck & white situations.
In cases like the Foden one, or anywhere on the pitch really, i think maybe a team could have a couple appeals, like cricket. Where they are basically asking for a ruling on a decision. This would be even better if part of a process/discussion between the ref/VAR which is audible, so one can at least hear and understand their reasoning. With subjective decisions people will hold different views but i think it would be useful to hear the refs/VARs reasoning.
I have met a few refs in my time (not elite level) and a common thing is that they are defensive and do not willingly admit to making a mistake. Probably comes from years of abuse by players/fans but if the system let them admit when they perhaps were unable to make the best decision, and rectify it then great. They become less beleaguered and ultimately more correct decisions would result.
posted on 5/10/21
https://twitter.com/kellyasco/status/1445465558510567429?s=21
Actually milner got the ball, and diverted way before Bernardo Silva went over Milners leg.
posted on 5/10/21
No he really didn’t. Even the video you’ve shown there shows it if you scrub along it and focus on the ball. If you have a look at the longer analysis, then you’ll see from other angles how big a gap there actually is between the ball and Milners leg.
posted on 5/10/21
posted on 5/10/21
Oh it was a wum?
Fair enough, not really sure of the point!
Page 2 of 3