The whole top 6 this thing isn't true imo. It's just that better teams attack more and are in the penalty area more. Look at us Vs West ham yesterday who are another good team. We have some silly number more touches in the opposition box and that's in a game where many will claim west ham were better than us.
I've also seen how being a famous player can hinder you. Salah rightly or wrongly gets called a diver and every ref knows this and Ive seen loads of penalties against him waved away because of his reputation.
However where j agree is refs are impacted by how much of a splash their mistake will make. If Man city lose a game due to a dodgy decision which means we win the title then it is discussed for weeks on end. If a mid table team loses 3 places in the same circumstances then it's not mentioned beyond MOTD. Look at the city non penalty against Everton. It's not s big story because of Everton. Its a story because of the title race.
Great article. As you say it wouldn't be the main factor in why we are where we are but it has played a part.
In the Chelsea game when our penalty is given and you see a face to face discussion between the ref and a group of Chelsea player's presumably explaining the decision for over a minute. The Klich Rudiger one he doesn't even make eye contact with Ayling waving away any protests outright.
I have always felt rightly or wrongly one of the biggest myths in football is that somehow these calls even themselves out over a season which is not the case. It is a situation that has actually been made worse by VAR rather than remedy it, whereas in the past I think there was more chance of that 'evening out' happening.
It's not that the top 6 are getting more VAR calls (because they attack more) it's that they are being given the VAR decision where similar situations aren't for lower-table teams.
I think KK has it spot on though where the VAR refs are mindful of the impact their decision makes with a decision for or against a top team -- this might well be the factor that's causing the inconsistency in their decision-making.
Whatever it is, they need to start being more consistent with the rules or VAR is no use at all as a tool to prevent mistakes.
We definitely get far more leniency than we used to get pre takeover.
I’m certain if it had been an Everton player last week then we get a penalty
Hard to tell if it’s really poor officials who can’t handle pressure situations or it’s corrupt
I don't think Leeds deserved any penalties yesterday. I do believe however that we have had some ridiculous ones if late, top of the bill, Alisson clattering James who got the ball first. Top teams do get beneficial decisions for sure, but then again, why didn't VAR disallow the Middlesbrough handball in the FA cup game v Man U
don't think Leeds deserved any penalties yesterday
——-
It’s not the point though, Shaun. They were soft and *shouldnt* be penalties but we’ve had identical ones given to us. It’s about consistency. Either they are always penalties or never penalties.
If Klich against Rudiger is a penalty, then Rodrigo shouldn’t get one
I think every team can point to incidents where they believe decisions and var reviews have gone for and against them.
Some of the 'nailed on penalties' fans claim for their team border on ridiculous sometimes.
KingKenny - I like Klopp, and I feel he and Pep definitely have an intimidating influence…Klopp probably more so, and on a Fergie level.
I don’t think the outcome would have been much different in the recent 6-0 drubbing at Anfield, 3 big decisions went Liverpool’s way…2 of the softest penalties and Allison taking out James earlier. We don’t get those penalties and if that is Salah…no doubt he wins a penalty.
It all probably evens out over a season, sometimes doesn’t feel like it when your survival is at stake.
I think "sometimes doesn't feel like it" is the key point there.
Also the evens out stuff is nonsense. If City get a dodgy decision in our upcoming game to win, then that will almost certainly give them the title as it has double the impact (ignoring the psychological element too).
comment by steross17 (U6898)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
KingKenny - I like Klopp, and I feel he and Pep definitely have an intimidating influence…Klopp probably more so, and on a Fergie level.
I don’t think the outcome would have been much different in the recent 6-0 drubbing at Anfield, 3 big decisions went Liverpool’s way…2 of the softest penalties and Allison taking out James earlier. We don’t get those penalties and if that is Salah…no doubt he wins a penalty.
It all probably evens out over a season, sometimes doesn’t feel like it when your survival is at stake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every goal matters and at 0-0, that may have made for a different game if went 1 nil up there. Probably would have lost but still ....
Is it coincidence that the Premier Leaguenhad to fight off the ESL.
What better way to appease them?
Just saying?
comment by Best fans - Leeds Carajo (U2196)
posted 19 hours, 42 minutes ago
don't think Leeds deserved any penalties yesterday
——-
It’s not the point though, Shaun. They were soft and *shouldnt* be penalties but we’ve had identical ones given to us. It’s about consistency. Either they are always penalties or never penalties.
If Klich against Rudiger is a penalty, then Rodrigo shouldn’t get one
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely we cannot use the poor decision as a bench mark. Rodrigo's shout wasn't a penalty because it wasn't a penalty. Refs need to learn from the poor decisions by improving their decision making not by confounding errors by repeating them.
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Penalties, consistency and ‘top 6’ bias
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posted on 6/3/22
The whole top 6 this thing isn't true imo. It's just that better teams attack more and are in the penalty area more. Look at us Vs West ham yesterday who are another good team. We have some silly number more touches in the opposition box and that's in a game where many will claim west ham were better than us.
I've also seen how being a famous player can hinder you. Salah rightly or wrongly gets called a diver and every ref knows this and Ive seen loads of penalties against him waved away because of his reputation.
However where j agree is refs are impacted by how much of a splash their mistake will make. If Man city lose a game due to a dodgy decision which means we win the title then it is discussed for weeks on end. If a mid table team loses 3 places in the same circumstances then it's not mentioned beyond MOTD. Look at the city non penalty against Everton. It's not s big story because of Everton. Its a story because of the title race.
posted on 6/3/22
Great article. As you say it wouldn't be the main factor in why we are where we are but it has played a part.
In the Chelsea game when our penalty is given and you see a face to face discussion between the ref and a group of Chelsea player's presumably explaining the decision for over a minute. The Klich Rudiger one he doesn't even make eye contact with Ayling waving away any protests outright.
I have always felt rightly or wrongly one of the biggest myths in football is that somehow these calls even themselves out over a season which is not the case. It is a situation that has actually been made worse by VAR rather than remedy it, whereas in the past I think there was more chance of that 'evening out' happening.
posted on 6/3/22
It's not that the top 6 are getting more VAR calls (because they attack more) it's that they are being given the VAR decision where similar situations aren't for lower-table teams.
I think KK has it spot on though where the VAR refs are mindful of the impact their decision makes with a decision for or against a top team -- this might well be the factor that's causing the inconsistency in their decision-making.
Whatever it is, they need to start being more consistent with the rules or VAR is no use at all as a tool to prevent mistakes.
posted on 6/3/22
We definitely get far more leniency than we used to get pre takeover.
I’m certain if it had been an Everton player last week then we get a penalty
Hard to tell if it’s really poor officials who can’t handle pressure situations or it’s corrupt
posted on 6/3/22
I don't think Leeds deserved any penalties yesterday. I do believe however that we have had some ridiculous ones if late, top of the bill, Alisson clattering James who got the ball first. Top teams do get beneficial decisions for sure, but then again, why didn't VAR disallow the Middlesbrough handball in the FA cup game v Man U
posted on 6/3/22
don't think Leeds deserved any penalties yesterday
——-
It’s not the point though, Shaun. They were soft and *shouldnt* be penalties but we’ve had identical ones given to us. It’s about consistency. Either they are always penalties or never penalties.
If Klich against Rudiger is a penalty, then Rodrigo shouldn’t get one
posted on 6/3/22
*should get one
posted on 6/3/22
I think every team can point to incidents where they believe decisions and var reviews have gone for and against them.
Some of the 'nailed on penalties' fans claim for their team border on ridiculous sometimes.
posted on 6/3/22
KingKenny - I like Klopp, and I feel he and Pep definitely have an intimidating influence…Klopp probably more so, and on a Fergie level.
I don’t think the outcome would have been much different in the recent 6-0 drubbing at Anfield, 3 big decisions went Liverpool’s way…2 of the softest penalties and Allison taking out James earlier. We don’t get those penalties and if that is Salah…no doubt he wins a penalty.
It all probably evens out over a season, sometimes doesn’t feel like it when your survival is at stake.
posted on 6/3/22
I think "sometimes doesn't feel like it" is the key point there.
Also the evens out stuff is nonsense. If City get a dodgy decision in our upcoming game to win, then that will almost certainly give them the title as it has double the impact (ignoring the psychological element too).
posted on 6/3/22
comment by steross17 (U6898)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
KingKenny - I like Klopp, and I feel he and Pep definitely have an intimidating influence…Klopp probably more so, and on a Fergie level.
I don’t think the outcome would have been much different in the recent 6-0 drubbing at Anfield, 3 big decisions went Liverpool’s way…2 of the softest penalties and Allison taking out James earlier. We don’t get those penalties and if that is Salah…no doubt he wins a penalty.
It all probably evens out over a season, sometimes doesn’t feel like it when your survival is at stake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every goal matters and at 0-0, that may have made for a different game if went 1 nil up there. Probably would have lost but still ....
posted on 7/3/22
Is it coincidence that the Premier Leaguenhad to fight off the ESL.
What better way to appease them?
Just saying?
posted on 7/3/22
comment by Best fans - Leeds Carajo (U2196)
posted 19 hours, 42 minutes ago
don't think Leeds deserved any penalties yesterday
——-
It’s not the point though, Shaun. They were soft and *shouldnt* be penalties but we’ve had identical ones given to us. It’s about consistency. Either they are always penalties or never penalties.
If Klich against Rudiger is a penalty, then Rodrigo shouldn’t get one
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely we cannot use the poor decision as a bench mark. Rodrigo's shout wasn't a penalty because it wasn't a penalty. Refs need to learn from the poor decisions by improving their decision making not by confounding errors by repeating them.
Page 1 of 1