I find Owen Coyle's demise amazing.
He was such an exciting prospect last season, tipped for future success at big clubs and now he's apparently useless and on the verge of losing his job.
That doesn't really seem fair.
Personally I agree General but I'm not going to get into why because it's been done to death on both sides all over this board. I've been a trotter fan since I was five back in 1974 and all I'm asking is that judgement isn't rushed into either way based on the worst run of opening fixtures coupled with some truly awful injuries we've seen here. We're seven games in, no way to tell yet if Owen will lead us to relegation or Europe and while I understand that opinion can become polarised quickly especially when we're bottom of the league I'm simply asking my fellow fans to take a deep breath and unite in supporting our team and it's manager for now. I think it's vital at times like this that everyone works together and this is when we as fans are needed most.
Derby fan in peace.
Often view your board as an admirer of Coyle. I think some Bolton fans, the negative ones, should be careful of what they wish for as I think your current plight is the consequence of a number of things, not one in isolation. Some are mistakes, most I think are due to circumstance and some ill-fortune.
1. Injuries to key players; Holden & winger Lee. Players bought as cover are not up to the same standard (Eagles).
2. The effect these injuries can have on team morale.
3. Debt. Your major signing was Ngog at £4m (plus his wages). You have played sides who can spend £20-£30m on individual players. To put it simply, Bolton cannot cope with the huge disparity that exists in the PL.
4. The transfer saga regarding Cahill proved an unnecessary distraction and you ended up with the worse of both worlds: a player who has been unsettled and whose market value is declining as he could leave on a free.
5. A fixture list from hell at a time when your side has lost key players t.o injury
6. An ageing squad: Kevin Davies, Robinson & Jaaskelainen.
7. The PL elite clubs are more reluctant to lend promising players this season. Sunderland benefited from Welbeck, Bolton from Sturridge.
Additional off-field problems such as the Spanish left-back involved in the fatal car accident. How can a manager be blamed for the conduct of this player and who is probably not in a fit mental state to play?
Personally speaking, I think Bolton will find it hard to battle through this season with your current squad, and a number of circumstances have led to it. Would another manager extract more from this 'limited' squad? I don't think so. Only more investment and a better quality of player.
The irony is that if the worst happened and Bolton went down, Coyle is as good as manager as any to get you promoted back up, just like Peter Reid did at Sunderland.
The problems at Bolton go deeper than the manager. I wish you all the best and hope you recover to stay in the PL as I don't like the elite PL clubs and clubs like Bolton are the underdogs in a league distorted by money.
Just to let you know i will be reporting updates from the bolton reserves v newcastle reserves game tonight.
I posted this on Burnden Aces following the same 'excuse' that we are only bad because of the opening fixtures of this season. -
It's not just the last 7 games though is it?
This year from the Liverpool games onwards we've played 26 league games - won 6, drawn 2, lost 18 for just 20 points.
That is 20 points in two-thirds of a full season!
If we played like that over 38 games (a full season) that would equate to 29 points and certain relegation.
Our record over the last 12 league games is - L,L,L,L,L,W,L,L,L,L,L,L
These include losses to Blackburn, Blackpool, Sunderland (who have aparently only won only 9 points from their last 60 - but still beat us at the Reebok) and Norwich.
After watching yesterday's performance, do you really in your heart think that things will suddenly get better?
I could understand this article if we were on the Board, or major shareholders at Bolton, but this is a FORUM for goodness sake, where folk can air their views safely, without it causing any problems for the club whatsoever. A bit like politics, where the Backbenchers can have their say ...but when they file through the lobby to actually VOTE, they'll back their party more often than not. Same here - folk aren't gonna go to games and scream ' Coyle OUT ' for 90 mins ..... the team will get the backing when they're on the pitch .... but to say that no-one should question what's happening on an independant FORUM is a bit ' 1984 ' ...... or Germany in the 1930's, if you like ....
Firstofthegang you misunderstand what I'm asking for, perhaps because I have not explained it well enough. I would not dream of asking anyone not to have an opinion or deny them the right to state it but I am getting more than a little tired of people resorting to calling each other names rather than making an intelligent point. The other thing I'm asking for is not that we don't QUESTION because that would indeed be Soviet- Germany 30's-1984 stuff simply that we don't condemn out of hand for the sake of condemning.
By all means if you don't like selections. tactics or formations then say so and all I would ask is that you add in why you disagree. Too many of us recently have sniped at each other without actually debating anything whether we agree with Owen or not and it's rapidly turning into a place where we have a go simply for the sake of having a go if you follow my meaning.
Nor do I expect people to say we played superbly if we didn't and I don't ask you to wear blinkers. As I state in the article if we perform as spinelessly as we did in the first half against Chelsea I'll be first in line to complain about it. All I asked is that if the players are demonstrably doing their best we at least support that.
You've seen enough of my posts by now to know that I try to show reason for everytjing I say and I don't resort to peurile insults or tell anyone else to shut up. I just want the board to stop digging at each other because it's reminding me of the old 606 and the pro meg/anti meg debates that stopped being debates and degenerated into slanging matches.
I'm asking everyone on both sides to defer judgement of Owen for five matches because in my opinion its still too early to say where he is or isn't taking us. I'm NOT saying you must support him or else and I'm certainly not asking people not to make a judgement at all. I'm asking mainly for a little patience from everybody and to remember that it wasn't all that long ago when we were smiling because we didn't do this in fighting any more and some very dark days were finally behind us. I just want to try and stop them from descending again when in all honesty there isn't really any reason for them yet.
You're absolutely right in saying this is an independent forum and that everyone's entitled to their opinion. It just happens to be mine that all this fighting is not helping anything or anyone right now.
Thanks for your further explanation LPP Owen Coyle will certainly get at least 5 games from the club to turn it round, and he will he get that from the fans too, I suspect. It's worrying that the amount of pressure on the players and the manager, caused by the manner of the performances and the disturbing scorelines, increases with each game - and it isn't easy to see what OC plans to do about it ...or indeed if he CAN do about it.
But, despite my reservations, I still think he's the best person for the job (for now) .... and I truly hope he can turn this around. The BSA years have meant that we have come to expect a bit more than just survival in the Prem every season, but that survival is more important than any one individual - manager or player.
Right now, I'd settle for survival this season, and little else. But he has to deliver, or someone else will be given that task by the Board, as survival is also their minimum requirement.
Question - Is the thread author the mod on this site?
I thought the same as 'First of etc' but thought it best not to upset the thread starter who I assumed was the mod, as I am not looking to be banned (or censored).
I did think it important enough though to present the facts of Coyle's last 26 league matches in charge where we have played EVERYONE (not just the top 5 teams from last year) and where the results quite frankly have been dreadful!
That is 20 points in two-thirds of a full season!
If we played like that over 38 games (a full season) that would equate to 29 points and certain relegation.
Our record over the last 12 league games is - L,L,L,L,L,W,L,L,L,L,L,L
-----
Thanks for that post Sluffy, I hadn't seen that on BA but it is a very scary stat to be honest and as you say if we continue like that for 38 games we willl not be here (the premier league) this time next year.
Llp....im on my phone and ive read your article, il post a propper reply when i get to my laptop, just wanna say, good article, im a bit negative i knw, but your right, the club needs my support and they will get it, unless after the next 5 games i have to start doing stuff i dont actually like doing....booing.
I am willing to give coyle the benefit of the doubt for the next 3 games.
A minimum amount of points I feel we need is 6.
Wigan - win
Sunderland - win
Swansea - loss
That is my prediction at the moment but I honestly believe a defeat at the DW will make it a real struggle for us going into our next game at the Bok.
LLP good original post, i agree with the content, but i would like to see Coyle stay even if we are faced with relegation. What bugs me is the manna of our defeats and the performance of some of the team (overpaid twonkers) i feel he is learning a lesson on how to approach games and certain teams in the PL. And you are right come on guys lets be positive....COYWM....
You feel he is learning a lesson?
Well I feel he isn't learning quick enough after chelsea on sunday and I feel we may get taught another lesson at the DW unfortunatley.
No no no no no normid. Keep coyle regardless of relegation. We are an established premier league club not some yoyo team or new starters. He has a squad of mainly PL players. Going down would be a disaster to avoid at all costs. There are many things wrong with bwfc at the moment but I am sick and tired of Owen coyle being completely admonished of any responsibility. He has been in the job for 15 months and has made significant changes that for whatever reason are not currently working. Therefore if we won the fa cup he would be hailed great and if he let's us get relegated then he can be classed a disastrous mistake.
LPP good article and I stick by what I said but will challenge any silly pro coyle comments ala keep him if we go down
Eggnog, no one is admonished of their responsability in this mess, if Gartside feels we should keep him on, I'm happy with that decision, he has done well at that level before.
Moses you were not so keen to agree with gartside during the megson period.
How do you know what I thought about Megson? I gave Megson a lot of time, a lot more than has been afforded to Coyle.
With Megson, I couldn't see us getting back up to the Premier league, I can with Coyle.
Why don't we just focus on the next game rather than focusing on 'what'll happen in 5 games time'.
Megson has a better record at fizzy pop level. Anyway not on here to argue with you. Unless you make unfounded ridiculous statements. Respect your right to your opinion.
I don't think Nottingham Forest fans think much of Megsons record in the fizzy pop league!
Or Leicester who were glad to see back of him after 8 games haha
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Owen Coyle: A Request
Page 1 of 2
posted on 4/10/11
I find Owen Coyle's demise amazing.
He was such an exciting prospect last season, tipped for future success at big clubs and now he's apparently useless and on the verge of losing his job.
That doesn't really seem fair.
posted on 4/10/11
Personally I agree General but I'm not going to get into why because it's been done to death on both sides all over this board. I've been a trotter fan since I was five back in 1974 and all I'm asking is that judgement isn't rushed into either way based on the worst run of opening fixtures coupled with some truly awful injuries we've seen here. We're seven games in, no way to tell yet if Owen will lead us to relegation or Europe and while I understand that opinion can become polarised quickly especially when we're bottom of the league I'm simply asking my fellow fans to take a deep breath and unite in supporting our team and it's manager for now. I think it's vital at times like this that everyone works together and this is when we as fans are needed most.
posted on 4/10/11
Derby fan in peace.
Often view your board as an admirer of Coyle. I think some Bolton fans, the negative ones, should be careful of what they wish for as I think your current plight is the consequence of a number of things, not one in isolation. Some are mistakes, most I think are due to circumstance and some ill-fortune.
1. Injuries to key players; Holden & winger Lee. Players bought as cover are not up to the same standard (Eagles).
2. The effect these injuries can have on team morale.
3. Debt. Your major signing was Ngog at £4m (plus his wages). You have played sides who can spend £20-£30m on individual players. To put it simply, Bolton cannot cope with the huge disparity that exists in the PL.
4. The transfer saga regarding Cahill proved an unnecessary distraction and you ended up with the worse of both worlds: a player who has been unsettled and whose market value is declining as he could leave on a free.
5. A fixture list from hell at a time when your side has lost key players t.o injury
6. An ageing squad: Kevin Davies, Robinson & Jaaskelainen.
7. The PL elite clubs are more reluctant to lend promising players this season. Sunderland benefited from Welbeck, Bolton from Sturridge.
Additional off-field problems such as the Spanish left-back involved in the fatal car accident. How can a manager be blamed for the conduct of this player and who is probably not in a fit mental state to play?
Personally speaking, I think Bolton will find it hard to battle through this season with your current squad, and a number of circumstances have led to it. Would another manager extract more from this 'limited' squad? I don't think so. Only more investment and a better quality of player.
The irony is that if the worst happened and Bolton went down, Coyle is as good as manager as any to get you promoted back up, just like Peter Reid did at Sunderland.
The problems at Bolton go deeper than the manager. I wish you all the best and hope you recover to stay in the PL as I don't like the elite PL clubs and clubs like Bolton are the underdogs in a league distorted by money.
posted on 4/10/11
Just to let you know i will be reporting updates from the bolton reserves v newcastle reserves game tonight.
posted on 4/10/11
I posted this on Burnden Aces following the same 'excuse' that we are only bad because of the opening fixtures of this season. -
It's not just the last 7 games though is it?
This year from the Liverpool games onwards we've played 26 league games - won 6, drawn 2, lost 18 for just 20 points.
That is 20 points in two-thirds of a full season!
If we played like that over 38 games (a full season) that would equate to 29 points and certain relegation.
Our record over the last 12 league games is - L,L,L,L,L,W,L,L,L,L,L,L
These include losses to Blackburn, Blackpool, Sunderland (who have aparently only won only 9 points from their last 60 - but still beat us at the Reebok) and Norwich.
After watching yesterday's performance, do you really in your heart think that things will suddenly get better?
posted on 4/10/11
I could understand this article if we were on the Board, or major shareholders at Bolton, but this is a FORUM for goodness sake, where folk can air their views safely, without it causing any problems for the club whatsoever. A bit like politics, where the Backbenchers can have their say ...but when they file through the lobby to actually VOTE, they'll back their party more often than not. Same here - folk aren't gonna go to games and scream ' Coyle OUT ' for 90 mins ..... the team will get the backing when they're on the pitch .... but to say that no-one should question what's happening on an independant FORUM is a bit ' 1984 ' ...... or Germany in the 1930's, if you like ....
posted on 4/10/11
Firstofthegang you misunderstand what I'm asking for, perhaps because I have not explained it well enough. I would not dream of asking anyone not to have an opinion or deny them the right to state it but I am getting more than a little tired of people resorting to calling each other names rather than making an intelligent point. The other thing I'm asking for is not that we don't QUESTION because that would indeed be Soviet- Germany 30's-1984 stuff simply that we don't condemn out of hand for the sake of condemning.
By all means if you don't like selections. tactics or formations then say so and all I would ask is that you add in why you disagree. Too many of us recently have sniped at each other without actually debating anything whether we agree with Owen or not and it's rapidly turning into a place where we have a go simply for the sake of having a go if you follow my meaning.
Nor do I expect people to say we played superbly if we didn't and I don't ask you to wear blinkers. As I state in the article if we perform as spinelessly as we did in the first half against Chelsea I'll be first in line to complain about it. All I asked is that if the players are demonstrably doing their best we at least support that.
You've seen enough of my posts by now to know that I try to show reason for everytjing I say and I don't resort to peurile insults or tell anyone else to shut up. I just want the board to stop digging at each other because it's reminding me of the old 606 and the pro meg/anti meg debates that stopped being debates and degenerated into slanging matches.
I'm asking everyone on both sides to defer judgement of Owen for five matches because in my opinion its still too early to say where he is or isn't taking us. I'm NOT saying you must support him or else and I'm certainly not asking people not to make a judgement at all. I'm asking mainly for a little patience from everybody and to remember that it wasn't all that long ago when we were smiling because we didn't do this in fighting any more and some very dark days were finally behind us. I just want to try and stop them from descending again when in all honesty there isn't really any reason for them yet.
You're absolutely right in saying this is an independent forum and that everyone's entitled to their opinion. It just happens to be mine that all this fighting is not helping anything or anyone right now.
posted on 4/10/11
Thanks for your further explanation LPP Owen Coyle will certainly get at least 5 games from the club to turn it round, and he will he get that from the fans too, I suspect. It's worrying that the amount of pressure on the players and the manager, caused by the manner of the performances and the disturbing scorelines, increases with each game - and it isn't easy to see what OC plans to do about it ...or indeed if he CAN do about it.
But, despite my reservations, I still think he's the best person for the job (for now) .... and I truly hope he can turn this around. The BSA years have meant that we have come to expect a bit more than just survival in the Prem every season, but that survival is more important than any one individual - manager or player.
Right now, I'd settle for survival this season, and little else. But he has to deliver, or someone else will be given that task by the Board, as survival is also their minimum requirement.
posted on 4/10/11
Question - Is the thread author the mod on this site?
I thought the same as 'First of etc' but thought it best not to upset the thread starter who I assumed was the mod, as I am not looking to be banned (or censored).
I did think it important enough though to present the facts of Coyle's last 26 league matches in charge where we have played EVERYONE (not just the top 5 teams from last year) and where the results quite frankly have been dreadful!
posted on 4/10/11
2-0 nufc res
posted on 4/10/11
That is 20 points in two-thirds of a full season!
If we played like that over 38 games (a full season) that would equate to 29 points and certain relegation.
Our record over the last 12 league games is - L,L,L,L,L,W,L,L,L,L,L,L
-----
Thanks for that post Sluffy, I hadn't seen that on BA but it is a very scary stat to be honest and as you say if we continue like that for 38 games we willl not be here (the premier league) this time next year.
posted on 4/10/11
Llp....im on my phone and ive read your article, il post a propper reply when i get to my laptop, just wanna say, good article, im a bit negative i knw, but your right, the club needs my support and they will get it, unless after the next 5 games i have to start doing stuff i dont actually like doing....booing.
posted on 4/10/11
I am willing to give coyle the benefit of the doubt for the next 3 games.
A minimum amount of points I feel we need is 6.
Wigan - win
Sunderland - win
Swansea - loss
That is my prediction at the moment but I honestly believe a defeat at the DW will make it a real struggle for us going into our next game at the Bok.
posted on 4/10/11
LLP good original post, i agree with the content, but i would like to see Coyle stay even if we are faced with relegation. What bugs me is the manna of our defeats and the performance of some of the team (overpaid twonkers) i feel he is learning a lesson on how to approach games and certain teams in the PL. And you are right come on guys lets be positive....COYWM....
posted on 4/10/11
Sorry LPP....
posted on 4/10/11
You feel he is learning a lesson?
Well I feel he isn't learning quick enough after chelsea on sunday and I feel we may get taught another lesson at the DW unfortunatley.
posted on 4/10/11
No no no no no normid. Keep coyle regardless of relegation. We are an established premier league club not some yoyo team or new starters. He has a squad of mainly PL players. Going down would be a disaster to avoid at all costs. There are many things wrong with bwfc at the moment but I am sick and tired of Owen coyle being completely admonished of any responsibility. He has been in the job for 15 months and has made significant changes that for whatever reason are not currently working. Therefore if we won the fa cup he would be hailed great and if he let's us get relegated then he can be classed a disastrous mistake.
posted on 4/10/11
LPP good article and I stick by what I said but will challenge any silly pro coyle comments ala keep him if we go down
posted on 4/10/11
Eggnog, no one is admonished of their responsability in this mess, if Gartside feels we should keep him on, I'm happy with that decision, he has done well at that level before.
posted on 4/10/11
Moses you were not so keen to agree with gartside during the megson period.
posted on 4/10/11
How do you know what I thought about Megson? I gave Megson a lot of time, a lot more than has been afforded to Coyle.
With Megson, I couldn't see us getting back up to the Premier league, I can with Coyle.
Why don't we just focus on the next game rather than focusing on 'what'll happen in 5 games time'.
posted on 4/10/11
Megson has a better record at fizzy pop level. Anyway not on here to argue with you. Unless you make unfounded ridiculous statements. Respect your right to your opinion.
posted on 4/10/11
I don't think Nottingham Forest fans think much of Megsons record in the fizzy pop league!
posted on 4/10/11
Or Leicester who were glad to see back of him after 8 games haha
posted on 4/10/11
finished 3-0
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