comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 1 minute ago
When you look at some of the massive shets like Henry VIII known for all the wrong reasons, she'll be know for her good and will remembered for 100's of year to come.
You shouldn't have to have it explained how significant the last week was and why people queued for half a day to be part of that history. Some people have zero respect for anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She was respectful and friendly but achieved nothing. Henry VIII did a huge amount whether good or bad.
We except primary school children to be respectful ffs
Now the monarchy are nothing but show pieces who leech millions from the public through a massive estate that operates outside of the legislation everyone else in the country has to abide by
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saying she did nothing, is simply not true.
Henry VIII actually bankrupted the country and changed a whole form of religion so he could divorce his wife, even Prince Andrew is a saint compared to him!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I'm saying though, he did a lot.
What's the point of the royal family now? Good or bad they're just a burden.
And if you really need a state funded friendly person to meet and great world leaders almost anyone who is not a complete arrris will be able to do the job. Some would happily do it for free but maybe be nice and offer them £40k a year so it at least seems like a real job...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you're doing is demonstrating that you don't understand the value of monarchs, and the nuances of the power they hold. Both in real and intangible terms. Sending the Wetherspoons boss halfway around the world to convince a country to go to war with us or not isn't going to cut it. Similarly, the cult of personality at home isn't going away because you remove the figurehead. It'll just get replaced. Would you rather a nation gets their values from David Beckham or some buffoon like Boris Johnson?
The world is crappy and broken, we need better solutions. I'm just not convinced you're 40k a year person is it. And I don't think you are either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a valid point in there that a head of state doesn't need an extended family all somehow deserving of our servility, one of whom will eventually inherit their role.
It's literally medieval.
I don't think a football forum should be the moral compass of the nation!
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Simp (U2958)
posted 5 seconds ago
I don't think a football forum should be the moral compass of the nation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neither should a monarchy
Thank god for the royal family, where else would I get my values from. The Queen practically raised me morally speaking
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 1 minute ago
When you look at some of the massive shets like Henry VIII known for all the wrong reasons, she'll be know for her good and will remembered for 100's of year to come.
You shouldn't have to have it explained how significant the last week was and why people queued for half a day to be part of that history. Some people have zero respect for anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She was respectful and friendly but achieved nothing. Henry VIII did a huge amount whether good or bad.
We except primary school children to be respectful ffs
Now the monarchy are nothing but show pieces who leech millions from the public through a massive estate that operates outside of the legislation everyone else in the country has to abide by
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saying she did nothing, is simply not true.
Henry VIII actually bankrupted the country and changed a whole form of religion so he could divorce his wife, even Prince Andrew is a saint compared to him!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I'm saying though, he did a lot.
What's the point of the royal family now? Good or bad they're just a burden.
And if you really need a state funded friendly person to meet and great world leaders almost anyone who is not a complete arrris will be able to do the job. Some would happily do it for free but maybe be nice and offer them £40k a year so it at least seems like a real job...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you're doing is demonstrating that you don't understand the value of monarchs, and the nuances of the power they hold. Both in real and intangible terms. Sending the Wetherspoons boss halfway around the world to convince a country to go to war with us or not isn't going to cut it. Similarly, the cult of personality at home isn't going away because you remove the figurehead. It'll just get replaced. Would you rather a nation gets their values from David Beckham or some buffoon like Boris Johnson?
The world is crappy and broken, we need better solutions. I'm just not convinced you're 40k a year person is it. And I don't think you are either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a valid point in there that a head of state doesn't need an extended family all somehow deserving of our servility, one of whom will eventually inherit their role.
It's literally medieval.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it is medieval. But that argument's facile. All the laws and customs etc we live by basically are. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong..
Though yes the whole birthright thing does seem messed up I would say on the flipside that by the nature of their birthright they are entirely focused on making Britain strong. That's literally their only job. Of course in the past that's meant doing bad things, but point me to a wealthy country that hasn't..
Similarly, point me to a successful politician that wasn't born into privilege. It's a bit lazy, sure, but the whole world is broken at this point. For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
Me personally, I think the most compelling reason to want to abolish the monarchy is to redistribute their wealth. Heck, we could even let them rent Buckingham Palace etc, just give us the millions of acres back. Same with the Catholic Church. Mothereffers
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Simp (U2958)
posted 16 seconds ago
I don't think a football forum should be the moral compass of the nation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely! But people are on making assertions about public opinion that cannot be tested in anything other than polling organisations and the data is not good for them. I fully expect a brief upward blip then a reaction to this week’s over-sycophancy to accelerate the trend.
We are in the Information Age. People are able to form their own opinions and not just copy thy neighbour like sheep. RF have no cause to accelerate that even if it is the only thing that reverses the trend and nobody is gonna tell them.
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
I imagine most of us on here had a similar experience of all this...
Some mild shock at the initial news, knowing this is a significant event.
Some empathy with the direct family, as we all know what it's like to lose a loved one.
Mild to strong tedium as the week progressed and the media coverage went into overdrive.
Some head scratching at the queuing, people saying it was like losing their own mum, etc.
Laughed at a few jokes about it all.
Quietly impressed by the pomp and pageantry of yesterday.
Glad it's now all over.
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 1 minute ago
When you look at some of the massive shets like Henry VIII known for all the wrong reasons, she'll be know for her good and will remembered for 100's of year to come.
You shouldn't have to have it explained how significant the last week was and why people queued for half a day to be part of that history. Some people have zero respect for anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She was respectful and friendly but achieved nothing. Henry VIII did a huge amount whether good or bad.
We except primary school children to be respectful ffs
Now the monarchy are nothing but show pieces who leech millions from the public through a massive estate that operates outside of the legislation everyone else in the country has to abide by
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saying she did nothing, is simply not true.
Henry VIII actually bankrupted the country and changed a whole form of religion so he could divorce his wife, even Prince Andrew is a saint compared to him!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I'm saying though, he did a lot.
What's the point of the royal family now? Good or bad they're just a burden.
And if you really need a state funded friendly person to meet and great world leaders almost anyone who is not a complete arrris will be able to do the job. Some would happily do it for free but maybe be nice and offer them £40k a year so it at least seems like a real job...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you're doing is demonstrating that you don't understand the value of monarchs, and the nuances of the power they hold. Both in real and intangible terms. Sending the Wetherspoons boss halfway around the world to convince a country to go to war with us or not isn't going to cut it. Similarly, the cult of personality at home isn't going away because you remove the figurehead. It'll just get replaced. Would you rather a nation gets their values from David Beckham or some buffoon like Boris Johnson?
The world is crappy and broken, we need better solutions. I'm just not convinced you're 40k a year person is it. And I don't think you are either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a valid point in there that a head of state doesn't need an extended family all somehow deserving of our servility, one of whom will eventually inherit their role.
It's literally medieval.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it is medieval. But that argument's facile. All the laws and customs etc we live by basically are. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong..
Though yes the whole birthright thing does seem messed up I would say on the flipside that by the nature of their birthright they are entirely focused on making Britain strong. That's literally their only job. Of course in the past that's meant doing bad things, but point me to a wealthy country that hasn't..
Similarly, point me to a successful politician that wasn't born into privilege. It's a bit lazy, sure, but the whole world is broken at this point. For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
Me personally, I think the most compelling reason to want to abolish the monarchy is to redistribute their wealth. Heck, we could even let them rent Buckingham Palace etc, just give us the millions of acres back. Same with the Catholic Church. Mothereffers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because it is old it is almost certainly wrong!
Make Britain strong? Abject failure on that one.
Does the CoE have more land in uk than the catholics? Asking for a friend.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a future monarch was an idiot? What if Prince Charles doesn't stay politically neutral and starts speaking out about things you disagree with?
The US can remove their idiot in an election (if not before then by other procedures). Our monarch has the position for life and we'd be stuck with it.
*King Charles
Still can't get used to that.
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a future monarch was an idiot? What if Prince Charles doesn't stay politically neutral and starts speaking out about things you disagree with?
The US can remove their idiot in an election (if not before then by other procedures). Our monarch has the position for life and we'd be stuck with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll see. Monarchies are toppled in revolutions. If Charles is so bad the majority of public opinion sways against them and instead of 12 hours queues to honour the family you have millions of people protesting them, then it's a real discussion, right?
Would the armed forces turn guns on their own people? Possibly. But I think something would be worked out before it all got to that.
Yeah the US has elections but please let's stop using them as something we want to be like. There's plenty of better countries to copy.
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a future monarch was an idiot? What if Prince Charles doesn't stay politically neutral and starts speaking out about things you disagree with?
The US can remove their idiot in an election (if not before then by other procedures). Our monarch has the position for life and we'd be stuck with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll see. Monarchies are toppled in revolutions. If Charles is so bad the majority of public opinion sways against them and instead of 12 hours queues to honour the family you have millions of people protesting them, then it's a real discussion, right?
Would the armed forces turn guns on their own people? Possibly. But I think something would be worked out before it all got to that.
Yeah the US has elections but please let's stop using them as something we want to be like. There's plenty of better countries to copy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah OK. So it's going to be a happy ending then.
We just need to a revolution guys if one gets out of hand. That's a better solution than a system that has an election to remove one though.
I'm not saying what's better or worse. You asked what would happen, that's the likely scenario right?
Anyway, the whole thing with the US just furthers my cult of personality point earlier. These global leaders have a real impact on how people think about themselves, their country, and how others around the world think about them. See the impact Trump had on foreign relations. As a Brit abroad I've literally had people laugh at me cos of Brexit. I guess I felt for a moment what it must be like to be a Wolves fan
The US is in a terrible state because 1) it has effectively created aristocracy through decades of economic policy that facilitate accumulation of vast wealth and corresponding influence in the hands of a few, and 2) it is one of the few democratic countries in the world that shares the UK's first past the post voting system, enabling a minority of voters to wield majority power.
Abolishing the monarchy is not a panacea, but having a republican system does not inevitably lead to emulating the United States. We could have the boring stability and moderation of Germany, for instance, instead.
I do believe that the presence of the monarchy, though it is constitutionally fairly powerless, serves as a barrier to egalitarian reform in the UK. It is accompanied by fairly unrelenting propaganda and lack of scrutiny (see for instance the sycophantic coverage of any royal event; and the fact that Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case is a minor story, rather than a scandal of giant proportions) which encourages a deferential mindset that benefits our actual political-economic overlords, and creates a space in which wholly undemocratic hangovers from feudal times like the House or Lords cannot be reformed.
So at a time when we get a new head of state, a new sovereign, without requiring our consent, people are arrested for silently holding up signs expressing their opposition to monarchy. Surely the interregnum is the most appropriate time to comment on this?
Red Russian
Great points well made. I'll try and remember to reply properly later
What Russian said (as usual).
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 7 minutes ago
Anyway, the whole thing with the US just furthers my cult of personality point earlier. These global leaders have a real impact on how people think about themselves, their country, and how others around the world think about them. See the impact Trump had on foreign relations. As a Brit abroad I've literally had people laugh at me cos of Brexit. I guess I felt for a moment what it must be like to be a Wolves fan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolves fans get laughed at because of Brexit?
As for the claim that the monarchy makes us stronger vis-a-vis the rest of the world... Prince Andrew / Epstein and the shunning (with overtones of racism) of Harry & Megan were massive news stories in North America. And over the last fortnight much of Africa was reminiscing about the legacy of empire, with which Elizabeth II was strongly linked.
The royal family is indeed a symbol of Britain around the world, but more particularly a symbol of a colonial and rigidly class-based, pre-democratic Britain. I wouldn't overstate how much affection the rest of the world has for this, especially at a time when the global south is growing in cultural and economic self-confidence and post-Brexit UK looks both jingoistic and wounded.
Sign in if you want to comment
The Queens funeral today
Page 9 of 20
10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
posted on 20/9/22
Lol. Your*
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 1 minute ago
When you look at some of the massive shets like Henry VIII known for all the wrong reasons, she'll be know for her good and will remembered for 100's of year to come.
You shouldn't have to have it explained how significant the last week was and why people queued for half a day to be part of that history. Some people have zero respect for anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She was respectful and friendly but achieved nothing. Henry VIII did a huge amount whether good or bad.
We except primary school children to be respectful ffs
Now the monarchy are nothing but show pieces who leech millions from the public through a massive estate that operates outside of the legislation everyone else in the country has to abide by
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saying she did nothing, is simply not true.
Henry VIII actually bankrupted the country and changed a whole form of religion so he could divorce his wife, even Prince Andrew is a saint compared to him!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I'm saying though, he did a lot.
What's the point of the royal family now? Good or bad they're just a burden.
And if you really need a state funded friendly person to meet and great world leaders almost anyone who is not a complete arrris will be able to do the job. Some would happily do it for free but maybe be nice and offer them £40k a year so it at least seems like a real job...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you're doing is demonstrating that you don't understand the value of monarchs, and the nuances of the power they hold. Both in real and intangible terms. Sending the Wetherspoons boss halfway around the world to convince a country to go to war with us or not isn't going to cut it. Similarly, the cult of personality at home isn't going away because you remove the figurehead. It'll just get replaced. Would you rather a nation gets their values from David Beckham or some buffoon like Boris Johnson?
The world is crappy and broken, we need better solutions. I'm just not convinced you're 40k a year person is it. And I don't think you are either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a valid point in there that a head of state doesn't need an extended family all somehow deserving of our servility, one of whom will eventually inherit their role.
It's literally medieval.
posted on 20/9/22
I don't think a football forum should be the moral compass of the nation!
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Simp (U2958)
posted 5 seconds ago
I don't think a football forum should be the moral compass of the nation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neither should a monarchy
posted on 20/9/22
Thank god for the royal family, where else would I get my values from. The Queen practically raised me morally speaking
posted on 20/9/22
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 1 minute ago
When you look at some of the massive shets like Henry VIII known for all the wrong reasons, she'll be know for her good and will remembered for 100's of year to come.
You shouldn't have to have it explained how significant the last week was and why people queued for half a day to be part of that history. Some people have zero respect for anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She was respectful and friendly but achieved nothing. Henry VIII did a huge amount whether good or bad.
We except primary school children to be respectful ffs
Now the monarchy are nothing but show pieces who leech millions from the public through a massive estate that operates outside of the legislation everyone else in the country has to abide by
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saying she did nothing, is simply not true.
Henry VIII actually bankrupted the country and changed a whole form of religion so he could divorce his wife, even Prince Andrew is a saint compared to him!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I'm saying though, he did a lot.
What's the point of the royal family now? Good or bad they're just a burden.
And if you really need a state funded friendly person to meet and great world leaders almost anyone who is not a complete arrris will be able to do the job. Some would happily do it for free but maybe be nice and offer them £40k a year so it at least seems like a real job...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you're doing is demonstrating that you don't understand the value of monarchs, and the nuances of the power they hold. Both in real and intangible terms. Sending the Wetherspoons boss halfway around the world to convince a country to go to war with us or not isn't going to cut it. Similarly, the cult of personality at home isn't going away because you remove the figurehead. It'll just get replaced. Would you rather a nation gets their values from David Beckham or some buffoon like Boris Johnson?
The world is crappy and broken, we need better solutions. I'm just not convinced you're 40k a year person is it. And I don't think you are either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a valid point in there that a head of state doesn't need an extended family all somehow deserving of our servility, one of whom will eventually inherit their role.
It's literally medieval.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it is medieval. But that argument's facile. All the laws and customs etc we live by basically are. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong..
Though yes the whole birthright thing does seem messed up I would say on the flipside that by the nature of their birthright they are entirely focused on making Britain strong. That's literally their only job. Of course in the past that's meant doing bad things, but point me to a wealthy country that hasn't..
Similarly, point me to a successful politician that wasn't born into privilege. It's a bit lazy, sure, but the whole world is broken at this point. For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
Me personally, I think the most compelling reason to want to abolish the monarchy is to redistribute their wealth. Heck, we could even let them rent Buckingham Palace etc, just give us the millions of acres back. Same with the Catholic Church. Mothereffers
posted on 20/9/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 20/9/22
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Simp (U2958)
posted 16 seconds ago
I don't think a football forum should be the moral compass of the nation!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely! But people are on making assertions about public opinion that cannot be tested in anything other than polling organisations and the data is not good for them. I fully expect a brief upward blip then a reaction to this week’s over-sycophancy to accelerate the trend.
We are in the Information Age. People are able to form their own opinions and not just copy thy neighbour like sheep. RF have no cause to accelerate that even if it is the only thing that reverses the trend and nobody is gonna tell them.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
posted on 20/9/22
I imagine most of us on here had a similar experience of all this...
Some mild shock at the initial news, knowing this is a significant event.
Some empathy with the direct family, as we all know what it's like to lose a loved one.
Mild to strong tedium as the week progressed and the media coverage went into overdrive.
Some head scratching at the queuing, people saying it was like losing their own mum, etc.
Laughed at a few jokes about it all.
Quietly impressed by the pomp and pageantry of yesterday.
Glad it's now all over.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Post Nearly Man (U1270)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by Wetherby White (U6810)
posted 1 minute ago
When you look at some of the massive shets like Henry VIII known for all the wrong reasons, she'll be know for her good and will remembered for 100's of year to come.
You shouldn't have to have it explained how significant the last week was and why people queued for half a day to be part of that history. Some people have zero respect for anyone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She was respectful and friendly but achieved nothing. Henry VIII did a huge amount whether good or bad.
We except primary school children to be respectful ffs
Now the monarchy are nothing but show pieces who leech millions from the public through a massive estate that operates outside of the legislation everyone else in the country has to abide by
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Saying she did nothing, is simply not true.
Henry VIII actually bankrupted the country and changed a whole form of religion so he could divorce his wife, even Prince Andrew is a saint compared to him!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I'm saying though, he did a lot.
What's the point of the royal family now? Good or bad they're just a burden.
And if you really need a state funded friendly person to meet and great world leaders almost anyone who is not a complete arrris will be able to do the job. Some would happily do it for free but maybe be nice and offer them £40k a year so it at least seems like a real job...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you're doing is demonstrating that you don't understand the value of monarchs, and the nuances of the power they hold. Both in real and intangible terms. Sending the Wetherspoons boss halfway around the world to convince a country to go to war with us or not isn't going to cut it. Similarly, the cult of personality at home isn't going away because you remove the figurehead. It'll just get replaced. Would you rather a nation gets their values from David Beckham or some buffoon like Boris Johnson?
The world is crappy and broken, we need better solutions. I'm just not convinced you're 40k a year person is it. And I don't think you are either.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a valid point in there that a head of state doesn't need an extended family all somehow deserving of our servility, one of whom will eventually inherit their role.
It's literally medieval.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah it is medieval. But that argument's facile. All the laws and customs etc we live by basically are. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong..
Though yes the whole birthright thing does seem messed up I would say on the flipside that by the nature of their birthright they are entirely focused on making Britain strong. That's literally their only job. Of course in the past that's meant doing bad things, but point me to a wealthy country that hasn't..
Similarly, point me to a successful politician that wasn't born into privilege. It's a bit lazy, sure, but the whole world is broken at this point. For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
Me personally, I think the most compelling reason to want to abolish the monarchy is to redistribute their wealth. Heck, we could even let them rent Buckingham Palace etc, just give us the millions of acres back. Same with the Catholic Church. Mothereffers
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Because it is old it is almost certainly wrong!
Make Britain strong? Abject failure on that one.
Does the CoE have more land in uk than the catholics? Asking for a friend.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
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The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a future monarch was an idiot? What if Prince Charles doesn't stay politically neutral and starts speaking out about things you disagree with?
The US can remove their idiot in an election (if not before then by other procedures). Our monarch has the position for life and we'd be stuck with it.
posted on 20/9/22
*King Charles
Still can't get used to that.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a future monarch was an idiot? What if Prince Charles doesn't stay politically neutral and starts speaking out about things you disagree with?
The US can remove their idiot in an election (if not before then by other procedures). Our monarch has the position for life and we'd be stuck with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll see. Monarchies are toppled in revolutions. If Charles is so bad the majority of public opinion sways against them and instead of 12 hours queues to honour the family you have millions of people protesting them, then it's a real discussion, right?
Would the armed forces turn guns on their own people? Possibly. But I think something would be worked out before it all got to that.
Yeah the US has elections but please let's stop using them as something we want to be like. There's plenty of better countries to copy.
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 4 seconds ago
For all the flaws of the monarchy I think they're often an easy target for people's frustrations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The main flaw for me is inequality.
In the US, for example, anyone born there could, in theory, become President. In the UK it's only through family that you can become head of state.
That's why I laughed at people moaning about other people pushing to the front of the mourning queue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is a good example of where we don't want to go as a nation. Absolute shambles that lead the richest most powerful, privileged nation on earth to the verge of an armed revolution because they voted in an idiot.
I'm not here saying the royals are great or anything and I'm no fan of wealth inequality. But we need to have a grown up conversation about this and think about what it really means to get rid of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if a future monarch was an idiot? What if Prince Charles doesn't stay politically neutral and starts speaking out about things you disagree with?
The US can remove their idiot in an election (if not before then by other procedures). Our monarch has the position for life and we'd be stuck with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll see. Monarchies are toppled in revolutions. If Charles is so bad the majority of public opinion sways against them and instead of 12 hours queues to honour the family you have millions of people protesting them, then it's a real discussion, right?
Would the armed forces turn guns on their own people? Possibly. But I think something would be worked out before it all got to that.
Yeah the US has elections but please let's stop using them as something we want to be like. There's plenty of better countries to copy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah OK. So it's going to be a happy ending then.
posted on 20/9/22
We just need to a revolution guys if one gets out of hand. That's a better solution than a system that has an election to remove one though.
posted on 20/9/22
I'm not saying what's better or worse. You asked what would happen, that's the likely scenario right?
posted on 20/9/22
Anyway, the whole thing with the US just furthers my cult of personality point earlier. These global leaders have a real impact on how people think about themselves, their country, and how others around the world think about them. See the impact Trump had on foreign relations. As a Brit abroad I've literally had people laugh at me cos of Brexit. I guess I felt for a moment what it must be like to be a Wolves fan
posted on 20/9/22
The US is in a terrible state because 1) it has effectively created aristocracy through decades of economic policy that facilitate accumulation of vast wealth and corresponding influence in the hands of a few, and 2) it is one of the few democratic countries in the world that shares the UK's first past the post voting system, enabling a minority of voters to wield majority power.
Abolishing the monarchy is not a panacea, but having a republican system does not inevitably lead to emulating the United States. We could have the boring stability and moderation of Germany, for instance, instead.
I do believe that the presence of the monarchy, though it is constitutionally fairly powerless, serves as a barrier to egalitarian reform in the UK. It is accompanied by fairly unrelenting propaganda and lack of scrutiny (see for instance the sycophantic coverage of any royal event; and the fact that Andrew's involvement in the Epstein case is a minor story, rather than a scandal of giant proportions) which encourages a deferential mindset that benefits our actual political-economic overlords, and creates a space in which wholly undemocratic hangovers from feudal times like the House or Lords cannot be reformed.
So at a time when we get a new head of state, a new sovereign, without requiring our consent, people are arrested for silently holding up signs expressing their opposition to monarchy. Surely the interregnum is the most appropriate time to comment on this?
posted on 20/9/22
Red Russian
Great points well made. I'll try and remember to reply properly later
posted on 20/9/22
What Russian said (as usual).
posted on 20/9/22
comment by Bãleš left boot (U22081)
posted 7 minutes ago
Anyway, the whole thing with the US just furthers my cult of personality point earlier. These global leaders have a real impact on how people think about themselves, their country, and how others around the world think about them. See the impact Trump had on foreign relations. As a Brit abroad I've literally had people laugh at me cos of Brexit. I guess I felt for a moment what it must be like to be a Wolves fan
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolves fans get laughed at because of Brexit?
posted on 20/9/22
As for the claim that the monarchy makes us stronger vis-a-vis the rest of the world... Prince Andrew / Epstein and the shunning (with overtones of racism) of Harry & Megan were massive news stories in North America. And over the last fortnight much of Africa was reminiscing about the legacy of empire, with which Elizabeth II was strongly linked.
The royal family is indeed a symbol of Britain around the world, but more particularly a symbol of a colonial and rigidly class-based, pre-democratic Britain. I wouldn't overstate how much affection the rest of the world has for this, especially at a time when the global south is growing in cultural and economic self-confidence and post-Brexit UK looks both jingoistic and wounded.
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