I think that’s very fair.
We lacked quality to turn half chances into great chances though. Mostly due to Harrison and Aaronson being very poor. Had Sinisterra stayed on that could have been different because he led our biggest threat by a mile. Had he stayed on then we would have been most likely to win, however 0-0 still probably the most likely result.
You watched it a second time......what did you do to deserve that?
… he won first prize in a competition. Second prize was to watch it twice.
Kerching
Yep, couple of points in particular that I agree with.
Aaronson. I recall Paddy’s comments about him when he first saw him arrive in the dressing room. Paddy’s thoughts were that Aaronson looked very lightweight. Aaronson was certainly buffeted about all game by Villa and needs to toughen up a bit if he’s to succeed in the Prem.
Control. Yes indeed. We can only control our own behaviours/reactions. Jesse needs to make sure this doesn’t become a problem (including his own behaviour).
Maybe every other coach in the PL saw what happened in the Chelsea game and have decided that Aaronson needs "special treatment" because he's such a creative player?
Agree with Marschian on this: we did alright until the sending off - and we did very well to salvage a point afterwards. It wasn't brilliant, no, but we haven't played for a month so it was bound to be scrappy. Maintaining the unbeaten run at home - Fortress ER (with a fantastic 36k attendance again!) - and keeping a clean sheet is a great result with only ten on the pitch for half the game.
It's true that Paddy, Ayling and Klich made a big difference when they came on and we nearly nicked it at the end there - but I'm still happy with Aaronson Roca, Adams, even Kristensen because we now have some depth at last.
As for the poor refereeing, I wish we could follow Bielsa on this. He said nada - there's nothing to be done about bad decisions on the day, anyway, and arguing with the ref is certainly not worth getting a red card for, be it player or coach. It is worrying that Marsch is not very professional on this score cos he sets a very poor example. Passion is one thing, stupidity another, particularly in a coach.
Onwards down to CP on Sunday. A good performance, three points, and a clean sheet, please - not too much to ask, is it!
Not sure i'd consider Aaronson creative... he's a high energy player. Will look great in games where the opposition come to play and give us a bit of space to play, and will struggle, in my opionion, when they come to park the bus
As for attitudes to refs. Clearly Jesse needs to tone his approach to suit this league in that respect and make sure that is reflected in the team... but for all it was very commendable that Bielsa turned the other cheek, i don't know that it ever did us any favours. I'm fine with him whinging about time wasting to draw attention to it, he just needs to get the balance right.
Watching without the emotion and beer leads to a more sensible outlook on the game. Whenever I don't watch live and know the outcome I often wonder what game some people were watching.
At this point in the season I have the same doubts I had at the beginning. Aaronson being lightweight and Jessie not the right man for the job.
I like all the rest of the new lads but rasmus needs to tone it down a notch.
"Control. Yes indeed. We can only control our own behaviours/reactions. Jesse needs to make sure this doesn’t become a problem (including his own behaviour)."
I said this a few weeks back, Marsch needs to lead by example, the number of red cards we're getting is not good.
I really don't see Aaronson as anything special, I think he runs around a lot, sometimes gets lucky with that, but that he's not a stand out player in this league and Villa was a bit of an awakening for him and potentially some fans.
With regards to this being a good performance and good point, one has to remember that Villa have lost every away game yet it never looked like they were going to lose this one, either before or after sending off.
That speaks more about us than anything.
If we can't look even vaguely threatening at home against the league's worst team on the road then there is real problem.
Most of team's time is spent practising, not playing, so to have a month of practice time should have benefitted not hindered us, I would not be using that as an excuse at all.
Understand - and share - many of the frustrations being expressed here but I'm trying to stay as positive as possible right now. Last season's meltdown cannot be repeated, but the Brentford result spooked me. I dread playing Man City.
Yes, we are still struggling, but a month-long break from competition will have hindered and not helped the development of a squad with so many new faces. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether any amount of training is better for development than game-time.
What positives can you take from that game then?
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 20 minutes ago
Understand - and share - many of the frustrations being expressed here but I'm trying to stay as positive as possible right now. Last season's meltdown cannot be repeated, but the Brentford result spooked me. I dread playing Man City.
Yes, we are still struggling, but a month-long break from competition will have hindered and not helped the development of a squad with so many new faces. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether any amount of training is better for development than game-time.
What positives can you take from that game then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Man City were opposition Sunday what do you think score would have been?
8, 9, 10-0?
We were extremely fortunate that we played worst away team in the league, a team that despite creating a number of chances were just simply unable to score.
There were a number of times they carved us right open and the scoreline can give false impression, against any other team we'd have lost that.
Don't want to keep hearing about leaders and playing brave and our fans deserve to watch high tempo football.
Bielsaball was high tempo football, our football now is not high tempo stuff.
Ive said it a few times that Aaronson looked better on the wing cutting in. Hes not been the same since hes been moved central. I would rather see Rodrigo and Bamford in there or even Klich personally.
Nice to see Joffy get a few goals last night. Will have done him the world of good for his confidence.
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Ive said it a few times that Aaronson looked better on the wing cutting in. Hes not been the same since hes been moved central. I would rather see Rodrigo and Bamford in there or even Klich personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I expect front 4 at Palace to be;
Bamford
Harrison Rodrigo Aaronson
We look like a side where first goal is so important. Score first and opposition leave space where our players excel. They score first and tighten up and we just don’t have the creativity to break that down.
My point is that you're sounding the alarm after an extraordinary game, extraordinary because the players haven't played for a month and because we only had ten men on the pitch for half of it. Villa came to waste time, slowing down the game and disrupting our flow, and they were very effective in doing that for the first 50 mins, until the red card.
In any case, it's still early days yet and we are in a better position than last season.
Facing the current Man City with only ten men? O Lordy...
But you haven't answered my question: what positives can you take from that game?
Wasn't it good that PB and Ayling got some minutes and seemed pretty sharp? Or that Meslier kept a clean sheet with some fine saves? Or that Cooper held it together at the back better than Llorente?
With regards to this being a good performance and good point, one has to remember that Villa have lost every away game yet it never looked like they were going to lose this one, either before or after sending off.
=========================================
Don't agree with this Jonty, i didn't think villa looked like scoring in the first half and it was up to the ref to keep control of the game, which he didn't right from the outset by not booking the time wasting.
it was a strange game with villa looking for a draw and the ref seemingly helping them.
not playing for a month is a good excuse but im not even going to use that. If harrison played his usual game we would have created many more chances but for some reason he wasn't sharp and many of our first half attacks broke down because he didn't control easy passes. might be down to a month of not playing.
also there's not a team in the league that wont get battered by man city, except maybe liverpool.
If Man City were opposition Sunday what do you think score would have been?
8, 9, 10-0?
---------------------
I do not think we would have scored that many, maybe 2-1 would have been a fair result!
comment by middlesexwhite (U4520)
posted 26 minutes ago
If Man City were opposition Sunday what do you think score would have been?
8, 9, 10-0?
---------------------
I do not think we would have scored that many, maybe 2-1 would have been a fair result!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah its not like we haven't beaten them with ten men.
Any team will fear playing Man City now even with 11 players! Haaland looks unstoppable!
Too soon to judge Harrison on the right wing, Sinisterra looked good on the left.
Off subject - Was Gary Kelly the last one club player for us?
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 2 hours, 25 minutes ago
With regards to this being a good performance and good point, one has to remember that Villa have lost every away game yet it never looked like they were going to lose this one, either before or after sending off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally they didn't look like winning it either, which is where the assertion that it was a good performance comes in.
Marsch revealed that the squad had been working on one man down scenarios last week, they clearly had a "what if" game plan and were able to carry it out. In that context, unless part of the game plan was to score, on the break perhaps, the played the perfect game and you cannot argue they didn't play well.
Ideally we would have kept 11 men on the pitch but that wasn't to be so a hard point well earned.
You could argue that the sending off did us a favour as at the tail end of the first half, Villa were lookin the better side, in a dire game and the sending off forced a revision of tactics which suited us better than it did them.
"Equally they didn't look like winning it either, which is where the assertion that it was a good performance comes in."
So its deemed to be a good performance because we didn't lose to a team that always loses when they play away?
Every team does constraints based training, its what coaches do, Marsch isn't some genius for doing it, indeed maybe he does more of it than others because he knows his teams will get a lot of red cards, which is ridiculous way to plan.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 11 hours ago
You watched it a second time......what did you do to deserve that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first time was at 4.00 a.m. here in New Zealand. I was like a Rotweiler in a hen house all day after that. I don't think any of us deserved it.
Second time around was more interesting, though.
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 3 hours ago
Any team will fear playing Man City now even with 11 players! Haaland looks unstoppable!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hands up, who among us hasn't woken up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night, dreaming about Haaland one-on-one with Coops?
Sorry Marschian, but I haven't. The Brute Haaland will eat poor old Liam for breakfast.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 2 hours ago
"Equally they didn't look like winning it either, which is where the assertion that it was a good performance comes in."
So its deemed to be a good performance because we didn't lose to a team that always loses when they play away?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And their stats against 10 men are? Do they always lose then?
There is a myth that it's harder to beat ten men than it is to beat a full strength team, it isn't, if that was the case no pro would want a member of the other team sent off. The simple fact is that once you have a player sent off, unless you are one of the top teams, your chances of getting anything from the game, home side or away side are greatly reduced no matter what you train for.
To get a point against a near rival in such circumstances is a good performance.
I agree, it was a horrible game of football and a nervy watch but Villa thtreatened very little, they had very few opportunities and defensively the team did very well post Sinisterra when the remit changed from win the game to damage limitation.
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On second thoughts
Page 1 of 2
posted on 5/10/22
I think that’s very fair.
We lacked quality to turn half chances into great chances though. Mostly due to Harrison and Aaronson being very poor. Had Sinisterra stayed on that could have been different because he led our biggest threat by a mile. Had he stayed on then we would have been most likely to win, however 0-0 still probably the most likely result.
posted on 5/10/22
You watched it a second time......what did you do to deserve that?
posted on 5/10/22
… he won first prize in a competition. Second prize was to watch it twice.
Kerching
posted on 5/10/22
Yep, couple of points in particular that I agree with.
Aaronson. I recall Paddy’s comments about him when he first saw him arrive in the dressing room. Paddy’s thoughts were that Aaronson looked very lightweight. Aaronson was certainly buffeted about all game by Villa and needs to toughen up a bit if he’s to succeed in the Prem.
Control. Yes indeed. We can only control our own behaviours/reactions. Jesse needs to make sure this doesn’t become a problem (including his own behaviour).
posted on 5/10/22
Maybe every other coach in the PL saw what happened in the Chelsea game and have decided that Aaronson needs "special treatment" because he's such a creative player?
Agree with Marschian on this: we did alright until the sending off - and we did very well to salvage a point afterwards. It wasn't brilliant, no, but we haven't played for a month so it was bound to be scrappy. Maintaining the unbeaten run at home - Fortress ER (with a fantastic 36k attendance again!) - and keeping a clean sheet is a great result with only ten on the pitch for half the game.
It's true that Paddy, Ayling and Klich made a big difference when they came on and we nearly nicked it at the end there - but I'm still happy with Aaronson Roca, Adams, even Kristensen because we now have some depth at last.
As for the poor refereeing, I wish we could follow Bielsa on this. He said nada - there's nothing to be done about bad decisions on the day, anyway, and arguing with the ref is certainly not worth getting a red card for, be it player or coach. It is worrying that Marsch is not very professional on this score cos he sets a very poor example. Passion is one thing, stupidity another, particularly in a coach.
Onwards down to CP on Sunday. A good performance, three points, and a clean sheet, please - not too much to ask, is it!
posted on 5/10/22
Not sure i'd consider Aaronson creative... he's a high energy player. Will look great in games where the opposition come to play and give us a bit of space to play, and will struggle, in my opionion, when they come to park the bus
As for attitudes to refs. Clearly Jesse needs to tone his approach to suit this league in that respect and make sure that is reflected in the team... but for all it was very commendable that Bielsa turned the other cheek, i don't know that it ever did us any favours. I'm fine with him whinging about time wasting to draw attention to it, he just needs to get the balance right.
posted on 5/10/22
Watching without the emotion and beer leads to a more sensible outlook on the game. Whenever I don't watch live and know the outcome I often wonder what game some people were watching.
At this point in the season I have the same doubts I had at the beginning. Aaronson being lightweight and Jessie not the right man for the job.
I like all the rest of the new lads but rasmus needs to tone it down a notch.
posted on 5/10/22
"Control. Yes indeed. We can only control our own behaviours/reactions. Jesse needs to make sure this doesn’t become a problem (including his own behaviour)."
I said this a few weeks back, Marsch needs to lead by example, the number of red cards we're getting is not good.
I really don't see Aaronson as anything special, I think he runs around a lot, sometimes gets lucky with that, but that he's not a stand out player in this league and Villa was a bit of an awakening for him and potentially some fans.
With regards to this being a good performance and good point, one has to remember that Villa have lost every away game yet it never looked like they were going to lose this one, either before or after sending off.
That speaks more about us than anything.
If we can't look even vaguely threatening at home against the league's worst team on the road then there is real problem.
Most of team's time is spent practising, not playing, so to have a month of practice time should have benefitted not hindered us, I would not be using that as an excuse at all.
posted on 5/10/22
Understand - and share - many of the frustrations being expressed here but I'm trying to stay as positive as possible right now. Last season's meltdown cannot be repeated, but the Brentford result spooked me. I dread playing Man City.
Yes, we are still struggling, but a month-long break from competition will have hindered and not helped the development of a squad with so many new faces. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether any amount of training is better for development than game-time.
What positives can you take from that game then?
posted on 5/10/22
comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 20 minutes ago
Understand - and share - many of the frustrations being expressed here but I'm trying to stay as positive as possible right now. Last season's meltdown cannot be repeated, but the Brentford result spooked me. I dread playing Man City.
Yes, we are still struggling, but a month-long break from competition will have hindered and not helped the development of a squad with so many new faces. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether any amount of training is better for development than game-time.
What positives can you take from that game then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Man City were opposition Sunday what do you think score would have been?
8, 9, 10-0?
We were extremely fortunate that we played worst away team in the league, a team that despite creating a number of chances were just simply unable to score.
There were a number of times they carved us right open and the scoreline can give false impression, against any other team we'd have lost that.
Don't want to keep hearing about leaders and playing brave and our fans deserve to watch high tempo football.
Bielsaball was high tempo football, our football now is not high tempo stuff.
posted on 5/10/22
Ive said it a few times that Aaronson looked better on the wing cutting in. Hes not been the same since hes been moved central. I would rather see Rodrigo and Bamford in there or even Klich personally.
posted on 5/10/22
Nice to see Joffy get a few goals last night. Will have done him the world of good for his confidence.
posted on 5/10/22
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Ive said it a few times that Aaronson looked better on the wing cutting in. Hes not been the same since hes been moved central. I would rather see Rodrigo and Bamford in there or even Klich personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I expect front 4 at Palace to be;
Bamford
Harrison Rodrigo Aaronson
We look like a side where first goal is so important. Score first and opposition leave space where our players excel. They score first and tighten up and we just don’t have the creativity to break that down.
posted on 5/10/22
My point is that you're sounding the alarm after an extraordinary game, extraordinary because the players haven't played for a month and because we only had ten men on the pitch for half of it. Villa came to waste time, slowing down the game and disrupting our flow, and they were very effective in doing that for the first 50 mins, until the red card.
In any case, it's still early days yet and we are in a better position than last season.
Facing the current Man City with only ten men? O Lordy...
But you haven't answered my question: what positives can you take from that game?
Wasn't it good that PB and Ayling got some minutes and seemed pretty sharp? Or that Meslier kept a clean sheet with some fine saves? Or that Cooper held it together at the back better than Llorente?
posted on 5/10/22
With regards to this being a good performance and good point, one has to remember that Villa have lost every away game yet it never looked like they were going to lose this one, either before or after sending off.
=========================================
Don't agree with this Jonty, i didn't think villa looked like scoring in the first half and it was up to the ref to keep control of the game, which he didn't right from the outset by not booking the time wasting.
it was a strange game with villa looking for a draw and the ref seemingly helping them.
not playing for a month is a good excuse but im not even going to use that. If harrison played his usual game we would have created many more chances but for some reason he wasn't sharp and many of our first half attacks broke down because he didn't control easy passes. might be down to a month of not playing.
also there's not a team in the league that wont get battered by man city, except maybe liverpool.
posted on 5/10/22
If Man City were opposition Sunday what do you think score would have been?
8, 9, 10-0?
---------------------
I do not think we would have scored that many, maybe 2-1 would have been a fair result!
posted on 5/10/22
comment by middlesexwhite (U4520)
posted 26 minutes ago
If Man City were opposition Sunday what do you think score would have been?
8, 9, 10-0?
---------------------
I do not think we would have scored that many, maybe 2-1 would have been a fair result!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah its not like we haven't beaten them with ten men.
posted on 5/10/22
Any team will fear playing Man City now even with 11 players! Haaland looks unstoppable!
posted on 5/10/22
Too soon to judge Harrison on the right wing, Sinisterra looked good on the left.
Off subject - Was Gary Kelly the last one club player for us?
posted on 5/10/22
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 2 hours, 25 minutes ago
With regards to this being a good performance and good point, one has to remember that Villa have lost every away game yet it never looked like they were going to lose this one, either before or after sending off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Equally they didn't look like winning it either, which is where the assertion that it was a good performance comes in.
Marsch revealed that the squad had been working on one man down scenarios last week, they clearly had a "what if" game plan and were able to carry it out. In that context, unless part of the game plan was to score, on the break perhaps, the played the perfect game and you cannot argue they didn't play well.
Ideally we would have kept 11 men on the pitch but that wasn't to be so a hard point well earned.
You could argue that the sending off did us a favour as at the tail end of the first half, Villa were lookin the better side, in a dire game and the sending off forced a revision of tactics which suited us better than it did them.
posted on 5/10/22
"Equally they didn't look like winning it either, which is where the assertion that it was a good performance comes in."
So its deemed to be a good performance because we didn't lose to a team that always loses when they play away?
Every team does constraints based training, its what coaches do, Marsch isn't some genius for doing it, indeed maybe he does more of it than others because he knows his teams will get a lot of red cards, which is ridiculous way to plan.
posted on 5/10/22
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 11 hours ago
You watched it a second time......what did you do to deserve that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first time was at 4.00 a.m. here in New Zealand. I was like a Rotweiler in a hen house all day after that. I don't think any of us deserved it.
Second time around was more interesting, though.
posted on 5/10/22
comment by Outwood White (U9610)
posted 3 hours ago
Any team will fear playing Man City now even with 11 players! Haaland looks unstoppable!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hands up, who among us hasn't woken up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night, dreaming about Haaland one-on-one with Coops?
posted on 5/10/22
Sorry Marschian, but I haven't. The Brute Haaland will eat poor old Liam for breakfast.
posted on 5/10/22
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 2 hours ago
"Equally they didn't look like winning it either, which is where the assertion that it was a good performance comes in."
So its deemed to be a good performance because we didn't lose to a team that always loses when they play away?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And their stats against 10 men are? Do they always lose then?
There is a myth that it's harder to beat ten men than it is to beat a full strength team, it isn't, if that was the case no pro would want a member of the other team sent off. The simple fact is that once you have a player sent off, unless you are one of the top teams, your chances of getting anything from the game, home side or away side are greatly reduced no matter what you train for.
To get a point against a near rival in such circumstances is a good performance.
I agree, it was a horrible game of football and a nervy watch but Villa thtreatened very little, they had very few opportunities and defensively the team did very well post Sinisterra when the remit changed from win the game to damage limitation.
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