comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lets be real here, best spurs can hope for this season is top 4. Too far away from City to win a title, too negative to win cups.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
disagree, 2nd spot is open for anyone this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's top 4. You don't win a trophy for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
then why not say the best the can hope for is top 2?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
because to me there's no real difference between 2 and 4. nobody remembers you for finishing second, you either win the title or you don't. the next 3 places get you in the CL and that's about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come back if or when you even qualify for the CL and we’ll talk then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This old chestnut. We've done it about 15 more times than you, plus we won trophies too. You're the ones on a long trophy drought that needs to prove themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re in the ropey league mate, you’ve found your level.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this guy speaks too much sense for this site !
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this guy speaks too much sense for this site !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just about to say …..along with ace’s comments this is absolutely spot on
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 minutes ago
Lets be real here, best spurs can hope for this season is top 4. Too far away from City to win a title, too negative to win cups.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the f*ck would you know about it you dreary troll?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Truth really is hurting you guys this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a point - OP is a Rangers fan!
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 42 seconds ago
We’ve played 9 games this season, which have included smashing 4 past Southampton and 6 past Leicester. In 2022 only Man City have scored more PL goals than Tottenham, so I do think this is getting a bit overblown because of a handful of turgid, gritty performances.
We all want our team to win every game while playing beautiful football. We also all want to win the euromillions and get a nosh off from Margot Robbie on the same evening, but life doesn’t work like that. Spurs are capable of playing free scoring football, but we aren’t quite clicking at the moment and as such we are having to be more pragmatic and grind things out. If it’s like this game in game out for the rest of the season then questions will be asked, but personally I think we’ll click more as the season goes on, just as we did last season once we got into our rhythm under Conte. In the meantime we need to ensure points on the board, and 20 from 9 games having played Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham and Brighton away isn’t bad going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Ace, appreciate you actually asnwering the question and not hitting the filter huffy button like you co fan Sandy did and just try to avoid the subject.
I think a lot of this spawns from the fact you have Conte in charge and playing free flowing attacking football is not his forte and he has never hid from that fact.
over the next two years what do you think will qualify as doing well enough to put up with what may be (again may not but in this scenario im looking at non attractive football).
Say for example 3rd place, I thikn most Spurs fan will take 3rd, maybe not so much "happy" but will accept it .
Would the football need to improve if the team remain as the 3rd best team in england ? or would you tolerate less attractive football for always finishig 3rd or would he need to deliver trophies?
IMO he needs to be careful like I said Spurs fans expect a certain brand of football to be played and if the results start to falter then the fans will afford him less patience.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Spurs need any form of silverware after a 15 year trophy drought. Any football that gets us a trophy will be accepted by the fans, and that’s what we need over the next 2 years.
We aren’t winning the league, City have spent fortunes and won it 4 out of 5 seasons and that was before they added the most prolific striker in world football. Their dominance seems assured - Klopps Liverpool were a top quality side and they barely put a dent in it so I don’t see anyone else rising to the occasion until Pep goes and City hit a period of transition.
We showed last season beating City home and away, not losing to Liverpool etc they we have the quality to beat any PL oppo on our day, and that needs to be transitioned to the cups. Levy set us back 2 years by appointing Jose then Nuno, but now we are back in the CL the objective has to be to stay there, and add any form of domestic silverware. I think most Spurs fans would be happy with that.
Off the pitch we need a big fack off naming rights deal for the stadium, and new contracts for Conte and Kane sorting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, win a trophy and who cares what the football is like. It seems fairly obvious thats why he was brought in.
A bit worrying that he is a very different manager that doesnt really play a great brand of football but like you said winning a trophy is the no 1 priority for Spurs.
I cant work out if thats a hinderance or a good thing?
Personally the way things are just now with City i dont think any club is in a position where they can challenge without doing exactly what City have done and throw boatfuls of money at it. The other way they can be toppled is by setting the club to move forward in the same direction year upon year.
Establish a way of playing and set up the youths and U23's to follow this. (this is what City have done) only they can also throw $'s at it also (its the one thing Guardiola said he wanted in place and up and runnig before he took over at City)
I think Spurs are in a real hard place the pressure of winning a trophy is getting huge and you always seem to be chasing it short term rather than long term.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
From what I remember Arsenal fans were upset because of a lack of player investment after the stadium move. A bit harsh that this rubbed off on Wenger but at the time he was Mr Arsenal and didn't help himself by defending the board's lack of player investment in some of his comments. I'm sure he like any manager would have liked more investment though
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We did, but I think that anyone could see that we probably weren't going to finish in the top four had we kept him, surely? The club and players needed change - just because Mourinho clearly wasn't the correct appointment doesn't necessarily mean that parting ways with Poch wasn't the correct thing to do.
On the trophy thing - I must say that the fans that are clamouring for us to win a trophy, any trophy, may be a bit surprised with how they feel about it if we do. What I'm trying to say is, say we scrape our way to the Carabao cup/FA Cup this season - it's not going to be this sudden silver bullet where all our issues have gone away.
It sounds weird to say because football is of course about winning things, but I just can't see past staying in the CL being a priority over a poxy domestic cup that any club could win given the correct circumstances - look at some of the clubs that have won them in the last 15 years - Swansea, Wigan, Portsmouth - and look where they are now?
The CL is the be all and end all for me. I hate the Europa/ECL, I dread tuning in on Thursday nights seeing us put out a half baked eleven out away to some cloggers in Moldova and inevitably losing 1-0 because they give everything and our reserves can't play cohesively. Whereas this season, we've only drawn Frankfurt, Marseille and Sporting, but I can genuinely say that I've looked forward to every single game, checking out their squads, league form etc. I can't wait for the game on Wednesday. So that's what does it for me.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im a football fan .... what does the team that I support have to do with whether what I am saying is correct or not? Does being a Rangers fan make my points any more or less valid than an Arsenal fans?
This is a multi team forum is not ?
when people start going of topic its normally telling.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy had to hit the panic button there. Our league form had been shoddy for months, despite the CL run. Poch couldn’t address it and Levy, having only just opened the doors to the stadium, pulled the trigger on him because his idol Jose was free and available. Poch did a brilliant job at Spurs despite the lack of silverware, but it had come to the end of its life cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy was far too early in pulling the plug. Personally I think Poch had done enough at his time to allow him and off season. The cycle of that team had come to an end it seems, but I truly think he deserved that year off and a chance to rebuild again.
I think Levy was bitter about the final and thought Jose would have won that match !
If poch was unable to rebuild then fair do's part ways that squad and manager had earned not so much the right to have a bad year but should have defo been allowed a season to recharge the batteries get the hunger back and go for another cycle.
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, yes that's fair, I seem to recall he had lost the dressing room now. Although I do also recall a lot of your fans being upset about this at the time.
So in that sense I guess it makes sense that Conte achieving CL would be good enough and I've said before I think you'll make top 4 this year.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy had to hit the panic button there. Our league form had been shoddy for months, despite the CL run. Poch couldn’t address it and Levy, having only just opened the doors to the stadium, pulled the trigger on him because his idol Jose was free and available. Poch did a brilliant job at Spurs despite the lack of silverware, but it had come to the end of its life cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy was far too early in pulling the plug. Personally I think Poch had done enough at his time to allow him and off season. The cycle of that team had come to an end it seems, but I truly think he deserved that year off and a chance to rebuild again.
I think Levy was bitter about the final and thought Jose would have won that match !
If poch was unable to rebuild then fair do's part ways that squad and manager had earned not so much the right to have a bad year but should have defo been allowed a season to recharge the batteries get the hunger back and go for another cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve always had mixed feelings about poch’s sacking as he had definitely earned more time
However listening to his interviews , the pressing game we had had completely vanished , the players looked as facked off as Poch did
It needed a reboot
I think the sacking was about right ….but I could easily argue myself round the other way too
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy had to hit the panic button there. Our league form had been shoddy for months, despite the CL run. Poch couldn’t address it and Levy, having only just opened the doors to the stadium, pulled the trigger on him because his idol Jose was free and available. Poch did a brilliant job at Spurs despite the lack of silverware, but it had come to the end of its life cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy was far too early in pulling the plug. Personally I think Poch had done enough at his time to allow him and off season. The cycle of that team had come to an end it seems, but I truly think he deserved that year off and a chance to rebuild again.
I think Levy was bitter about the final and thought Jose would have won that match !
If poch was unable to rebuild then fair do's part ways that squad and manager had earned not so much the right to have a bad year but should have defo been allowed a season to recharge the batteries get the hunger back and go for another cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve always had mixed feelings about poch’s sacking as he had definitely earned more time
However listening to his interviews , the pressing game we had had completely vanished , the players looked as facked off as Poch did
It needed a reboot
I think the sacking was about right ….but I could easily argue myself round the other way too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about Liverpool? The pressing game has disappeared for them too as have results. Should Klopp be sacked? No, I didn't think so. It's completely absurd to suggest that after 5 brilliant years, a dip in form should see someone fired.
The OP is talking about whether we can have success or entertaining football. I think it's fair to say that qualifying for the CL again represents success to a club of our size and budget. Trophies realistically go to very few clubs. So if success is CL qualification we did that every single year under Poch AND played great football. In fact we did it comfortably. Finishing 2nd or 3rd seemed unthinkable and Conte would snap your hand off if offered it now.
I just don't see why we should be happy with CL qualification at the expense of entertainment. If we won the league, fine, I get it, but Poch did everything Conte is doing and more playing good football.
5 out of the top 6 teams now have progressive front foot managers. That tells you that the landscape in football is changing. Pragmatism and conservatism no longer breeds success. That's why Jose is considered a dinosaur at Roma and honestly, I don't think Conte will be far behind him. I'm not pushing for him to leave but neither am I fully invested in his project. He's a diesel engine in an electric age. That's why I do glance over at Arsenal with a little bit of envy. They're building something. They look like Poch's Spurs circa 2015. I'd much rather be at the bottom of a ladder I want us to climb than near the top of one I don't.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im a football fan .... what does the team that I support have to do with whether what I am saying is correct or not? Does being a Rangers fan make my points any more or less valid than an Arsenal fans?
This is a multi team forum is not ?
when people start going of topic its normally telling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can put it down to snobbery if you think that getting top 4 every year is acceptable, but if you think that your club is capable of more and the manager is holding them back then it's not snobbery if your club is actually capable of more. Nobody can really tell whether we'd have done better with or without Wenger during that trophyless period because we didn't sack him until many years later.
This whole thing started with you wumming another thread by saying you fell asleep during the Spurs game at the weekend, so pardon me for not taking you all that seriously.
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im a football fan .... what does the team that I support have to do with whether what I am saying is correct or not? Does being a Rangers fan make my points any more or less valid than an Arsenal fans?
This is a multi team forum is not ?
when people start going of topic its normally telling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can put it down to snobbery if you think that getting top 4 every year is acceptable, but if you think that your club is capable of more and the manager is holding them back then it's not snobbery if your club is actually capable of more. Nobody can really tell whether we'd have done better with or without Wenger during that trophyless period because we didn't sack him until many years later.
This whole thing started with you wumming another thread by saying you fell asleep during the Spurs game at the weekend, so pardon me for not taking you all that seriously.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did fall asleep during the Spurs game is that so hard to believe, it was a boring game especially for a neutral not invested in the result. IMO it was not entertaining in the least it wasnt a wum. I think the OP is fair given that Tottenham have always been a traditional side for playing attractive attacking football and something that the fans tend to hold in high regard.
Spurs have more of a tradition for being an attractive team than say Arsenal are.
You agreed snobbery might come into it .. its right there.
i think it was sobbery cos although arsenal had tasted success before they had never done with such an entertaining brand of football which in turn under Wenger became the norm for arsenal fans success AND great on the eye football, this is what led to a lot of snobbery amongst the fans thinking it had always and always will be like that.
I dont see any evidence of WUMMING in my OP?
Firstly OP if it's genuine debate you want then you want to start by deleting obsessed trolls like TopForm from this thread, an over excited smug goooner who's only going to spout garbage on a thread like this.
Secondly, is this just a repeat of said TopForms early BS post about Spurs style of play? Seems like it and that post was simply a wum.
In response though I'm with Ace on this one. We haven't hit form but are putting points on the board. We have a hectic schedule.. this last week away at Arsenal away at Frankfurt away at Brighton. Some players missing, some just coming back from injury. It's been a tough week made worse by the death of our very popular first team fitness coach. In those circumstances, you just take the points in a tough game like BHA(a).
We have scored for fun since about Feb when we started to show some form under Conte. That form has continued this season but the displays have not but we know we can play better. The question of others is can they still pick up points when performances ain't great...Liverpool cannot, Utd and CFC couldn't but seem to be now, we all know City can and Arsenal yet to proove anything as they've had 1 tough away game and they lost it.
Some Spurs fans wetting their pants a bit about our style. Others appreciate its a marathon not a sprint and the fixture list is bonkers for the big clubs in UCL. I suspect Conte just wants us to get through to the WC well played and all to play for, so pragmatism is the key right now. That said we need to play better and we are well capable of doing so. IMO we are more likely to start to play better than start to lose games regularly. But we'll see.
Sign in if you want to comment
Chasing success over aesthetics
Page 2 of 4
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lets be real here, best spurs can hope for this season is top 4. Too far away from City to win a title, too negative to win cups.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
disagree, 2nd spot is open for anyone this year
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's top 4. You don't win a trophy for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
then why not say the best the can hope for is top 2?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
because to me there's no real difference between 2 and 4. nobody remembers you for finishing second, you either win the title or you don't. the next 3 places get you in the CL and that's about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Come back if or when you even qualify for the CL and we’ll talk then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This old chestnut. We've done it about 15 more times than you, plus we won trophies too. You're the ones on a long trophy drought that needs to prove themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re in the ropey league mate, you’ve found your level.
posted on 10/10/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this guy speaks too much sense for this site !
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 1 minute ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this guy speaks too much sense for this site !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was just about to say …..along with ace’s comments this is absolutely spot on
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 3 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 3 minutes ago
Lets be real here, best spurs can hope for this season is top 4. Too far away from City to win a title, too negative to win cups.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the f*ck would you know about it you dreary troll?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Truth really is hurting you guys this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a point - OP is a Rangers fan!
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 42 seconds ago
We’ve played 9 games this season, which have included smashing 4 past Southampton and 6 past Leicester. In 2022 only Man City have scored more PL goals than Tottenham, so I do think this is getting a bit overblown because of a handful of turgid, gritty performances.
We all want our team to win every game while playing beautiful football. We also all want to win the euromillions and get a nosh off from Margot Robbie on the same evening, but life doesn’t work like that. Spurs are capable of playing free scoring football, but we aren’t quite clicking at the moment and as such we are having to be more pragmatic and grind things out. If it’s like this game in game out for the rest of the season then questions will be asked, but personally I think we’ll click more as the season goes on, just as we did last season once we got into our rhythm under Conte. In the meantime we need to ensure points on the board, and 20 from 9 games having played Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham and Brighton away isn’t bad going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Ace, appreciate you actually asnwering the question and not hitting the filter huffy button like you co fan Sandy did and just try to avoid the subject.
I think a lot of this spawns from the fact you have Conte in charge and playing free flowing attacking football is not his forte and he has never hid from that fact.
over the next two years what do you think will qualify as doing well enough to put up with what may be (again may not but in this scenario im looking at non attractive football).
Say for example 3rd place, I thikn most Spurs fan will take 3rd, maybe not so much "happy" but will accept it .
Would the football need to improve if the team remain as the 3rd best team in england ? or would you tolerate less attractive football for always finishig 3rd or would he need to deliver trophies?
IMO he needs to be careful like I said Spurs fans expect a certain brand of football to be played and if the results start to falter then the fans will afford him less patience.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Spurs need any form of silverware after a 15 year trophy drought. Any football that gets us a trophy will be accepted by the fans, and that’s what we need over the next 2 years.
We aren’t winning the league, City have spent fortunes and won it 4 out of 5 seasons and that was before they added the most prolific striker in world football. Their dominance seems assured - Klopps Liverpool were a top quality side and they barely put a dent in it so I don’t see anyone else rising to the occasion until Pep goes and City hit a period of transition.
We showed last season beating City home and away, not losing to Liverpool etc they we have the quality to beat any PL oppo on our day, and that needs to be transitioned to the cups. Levy set us back 2 years by appointing Jose then Nuno, but now we are back in the CL the objective has to be to stay there, and add any form of domestic silverware. I think most Spurs fans would be happy with that.
Off the pitch we need a big fack off naming rights deal for the stadium, and new contracts for Conte and Kane sorting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed, win a trophy and who cares what the football is like. It seems fairly obvious thats why he was brought in.
A bit worrying that he is a very different manager that doesnt really play a great brand of football but like you said winning a trophy is the no 1 priority for Spurs.
I cant work out if thats a hinderance or a good thing?
Personally the way things are just now with City i dont think any club is in a position where they can challenge without doing exactly what City have done and throw boatfuls of money at it. The other way they can be toppled is by setting the club to move forward in the same direction year upon year.
Establish a way of playing and set up the youths and U23's to follow this. (this is what City have done) only they can also throw $'s at it also (its the one thing Guardiola said he wanted in place and up and runnig before he took over at City)
I think Spurs are in a real hard place the pressure of winning a trophy is getting huge and you always seem to be chasing it short term rather than long term.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
posted on 10/10/22
From what I remember Arsenal fans were upset because of a lack of player investment after the stadium move. A bit harsh that this rubbed off on Wenger but at the time he was Mr Arsenal and didn't help himself by defending the board's lack of player investment in some of his comments. I'm sure he like any manager would have liked more investment though
posted on 10/10/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We did, but I think that anyone could see that we probably weren't going to finish in the top four had we kept him, surely? The club and players needed change - just because Mourinho clearly wasn't the correct appointment doesn't necessarily mean that parting ways with Poch wasn't the correct thing to do.
On the trophy thing - I must say that the fans that are clamouring for us to win a trophy, any trophy, may be a bit surprised with how they feel about it if we do. What I'm trying to say is, say we scrape our way to the Carabao cup/FA Cup this season - it's not going to be this sudden silver bullet where all our issues have gone away.
It sounds weird to say because football is of course about winning things, but I just can't see past staying in the CL being a priority over a poxy domestic cup that any club could win given the correct circumstances - look at some of the clubs that have won them in the last 15 years - Swansea, Wigan, Portsmouth - and look where they are now?
The CL is the be all and end all for me. I hate the Europa/ECL, I dread tuning in on Thursday nights seeing us put out a half baked eleven out away to some cloggers in Moldova and inevitably losing 1-0 because they give everything and our reserves can't play cohesively. Whereas this season, we've only drawn Frankfurt, Marseille and Sporting, but I can genuinely say that I've looked forward to every single game, checking out their squads, league form etc. I can't wait for the game on Wednesday. So that's what does it for me.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im a football fan .... what does the team that I support have to do with whether what I am saying is correct or not? Does being a Rangers fan make my points any more or less valid than an Arsenal fans?
This is a multi team forum is not ?
when people start going of topic its normally telling.
posted on 10/10/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy had to hit the panic button there. Our league form had been shoddy for months, despite the CL run. Poch couldn’t address it and Levy, having only just opened the doors to the stadium, pulled the trigger on him because his idol Jose was free and available. Poch did a brilliant job at Spurs despite the lack of silverware, but it had come to the end of its life cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy was far too early in pulling the plug. Personally I think Poch had done enough at his time to allow him and off season. The cycle of that team had come to an end it seems, but I truly think he deserved that year off and a chance to rebuild again.
I think Levy was bitter about the final and thought Jose would have won that match !
If poch was unable to rebuild then fair do's part ways that squad and manager had earned not so much the right to have a bad year but should have defo been allowed a season to recharge the batteries get the hunger back and go for another cycle.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, yes that's fair, I seem to recall he had lost the dressing room now. Although I do also recall a lot of your fans being upset about this at the time.
So in that sense I guess it makes sense that Conte achieving CL would be good enough and I've said before I think you'll make top 4 this year.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy had to hit the panic button there. Our league form had been shoddy for months, despite the CL run. Poch couldn’t address it and Levy, having only just opened the doors to the stadium, pulled the trigger on him because his idol Jose was free and available. Poch did a brilliant job at Spurs despite the lack of silverware, but it had come to the end of its life cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy was far too early in pulling the plug. Personally I think Poch had done enough at his time to allow him and off season. The cycle of that team had come to an end it seems, but I truly think he deserved that year off and a chance to rebuild again.
I think Levy was bitter about the final and thought Jose would have won that match !
If poch was unable to rebuild then fair do's part ways that squad and manager had earned not so much the right to have a bad year but should have defo been allowed a season to recharge the batteries get the hunger back and go for another cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve always had mixed feelings about poch’s sacking as he had definitely earned more time
However listening to his interviews , the pressing game we had had completely vanished , the players looked as facked off as Poch did
It needed a reboot
I think the sacking was about right ….but I could easily argue myself round the other way too
posted on 10/10/22
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Ace (U22861)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing people saying top 4 is good enough with people saying it’s successful
They are two different things
Any cup would be great but top 4 is good enough
Football has moved on even from a decade ago where the champions league now guarantees a lot of money
Why would owners of foootball clubs sack managers that get you loads of money by qualifying for it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which are valid points, but then if CL is good enough you were already qualifying for it while playing attractive football and sacked a manager that was meeting that goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were 100% not going to qualify for the champions league when Poch got sacked
He was burnt out after the champs league final
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy had to hit the panic button there. Our league form had been shoddy for months, despite the CL run. Poch couldn’t address it and Levy, having only just opened the doors to the stadium, pulled the trigger on him because his idol Jose was free and available. Poch did a brilliant job at Spurs despite the lack of silverware, but it had come to the end of its life cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Levy was far too early in pulling the plug. Personally I think Poch had done enough at his time to allow him and off season. The cycle of that team had come to an end it seems, but I truly think he deserved that year off and a chance to rebuild again.
I think Levy was bitter about the final and thought Jose would have won that match !
If poch was unable to rebuild then fair do's part ways that squad and manager had earned not so much the right to have a bad year but should have defo been allowed a season to recharge the batteries get the hunger back and go for another cycle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve always had mixed feelings about poch’s sacking as he had definitely earned more time
However listening to his interviews , the pressing game we had had completely vanished , the players looked as facked off as Poch did
It needed a reboot
I think the sacking was about right ….but I could easily argue myself round the other way too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about Liverpool? The pressing game has disappeared for them too as have results. Should Klopp be sacked? No, I didn't think so. It's completely absurd to suggest that after 5 brilliant years, a dip in form should see someone fired.
The OP is talking about whether we can have success or entertaining football. I think it's fair to say that qualifying for the CL again represents success to a club of our size and budget. Trophies realistically go to very few clubs. So if success is CL qualification we did that every single year under Poch AND played great football. In fact we did it comfortably. Finishing 2nd or 3rd seemed unthinkable and Conte would snap your hand off if offered it now.
I just don't see why we should be happy with CL qualification at the expense of entertainment. If we won the league, fine, I get it, but Poch did everything Conte is doing and more playing good football.
5 out of the top 6 teams now have progressive front foot managers. That tells you that the landscape in football is changing. Pragmatism and conservatism no longer breeds success. That's why Jose is considered a dinosaur at Roma and honestly, I don't think Conte will be far behind him. I'm not pushing for him to leave but neither am I fully invested in his project. He's a diesel engine in an electric age. That's why I do glance over at Arsenal with a little bit of envy. They're building something. They look like Poch's Spurs circa 2015. I'd much rather be at the bottom of a ladder I want us to climb than near the top of one I don't.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im a football fan .... what does the team that I support have to do with whether what I am saying is correct or not? Does being a Rangers fan make my points any more or less valid than an Arsenal fans?
This is a multi team forum is not ?
when people start going of topic its normally telling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can put it down to snobbery if you think that getting top 4 every year is acceptable, but if you think that your club is capable of more and the manager is holding them back then it's not snobbery if your club is actually capable of more. Nobody can really tell whether we'd have done better with or without Wenger during that trophyless period because we didn't sack him until many years later.
This whole thing started with you wumming another thread by saying you fell asleep during the Spurs game at the weekend, so pardon me for not taking you all that seriously.
posted on 10/10/22
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 26 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by TopForm (U15726)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Graham Villas-Potter (U6489)
posted 38 seconds ago
Well, because spurs and arsenal were coming from different places. Arsenal suffered a decline from the mid 00s and were expected to be title and trophy contenders therefore their lack of success was judged harshly and top 4 was expected of them and hence the mockery as they increasingly laboured to finish top 4. Spurs by contrast have only begun qualifying for the CL on a somewhat regular basis more recently and therefore it is not taken for granted in the same way that it was for Arsenal 15 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We also played attractive football too while qualifying for the CL every year. Our fanbase still wanted our manager gone because it wasn't enough just to finish second, third, fourth after 6 years without a trophy, some even wanted Mourinho in just to win a trophy. Some didn't care if we made the CL or not as long as we won a trophy. I guess everyone has a different version of what is success and what they're willing to give up for it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
remind of us when Arsenal sacked their manager for finishing 2nd? when was finishing 2nd not good enough for Arsenal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We didn't. But there was a large number of people that were furious with that decision and wanted Wenger out as early as 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
in 2008/09 you finished 4th.
Arsenal fans became snobs IMO . Wenger had you playing at a level that when you look over the piece prior and post Wenger was higher than what before it and after it. I think they also thought change means improvement which it doesnt always seem to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The campaign started in 2008 not 2009. In 2008 we finished 3rd by a whole 2 points, lost the title by a whole 4 points, and were leading the title race until Eduardo broke his leg. Yeah we didn't technically 'finish second' so you can feel smug that you won the debate on that if it made you happy.
As for snobs maybe so, but one has to wonder what a Rangers fan gives a toss about any of this for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Im a football fan .... what does the team that I support have to do with whether what I am saying is correct or not? Does being a Rangers fan make my points any more or less valid than an Arsenal fans?
This is a multi team forum is not ?
when people start going of topic its normally telling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can put it down to snobbery if you think that getting top 4 every year is acceptable, but if you think that your club is capable of more and the manager is holding them back then it's not snobbery if your club is actually capable of more. Nobody can really tell whether we'd have done better with or without Wenger during that trophyless period because we didn't sack him until many years later.
This whole thing started with you wumming another thread by saying you fell asleep during the Spurs game at the weekend, so pardon me for not taking you all that seriously.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did fall asleep during the Spurs game is that so hard to believe, it was a boring game especially for a neutral not invested in the result. IMO it was not entertaining in the least it wasnt a wum. I think the OP is fair given that Tottenham have always been a traditional side for playing attractive attacking football and something that the fans tend to hold in high regard.
Spurs have more of a tradition for being an attractive team than say Arsenal are.
You agreed snobbery might come into it .. its right there.
i think it was sobbery cos although arsenal had tasted success before they had never done with such an entertaining brand of football which in turn under Wenger became the norm for arsenal fans success AND great on the eye football, this is what led to a lot of snobbery amongst the fans thinking it had always and always will be like that.
I dont see any evidence of WUMMING in my OP?
posted on 10/10/22
Firstly OP if it's genuine debate you want then you want to start by deleting obsessed trolls like TopForm from this thread, an over excited smug goooner who's only going to spout garbage on a thread like this.
Secondly, is this just a repeat of said TopForms early BS post about Spurs style of play? Seems like it and that post was simply a wum.
In response though I'm with Ace on this one. We haven't hit form but are putting points on the board. We have a hectic schedule.. this last week away at Arsenal away at Frankfurt away at Brighton. Some players missing, some just coming back from injury. It's been a tough week made worse by the death of our very popular first team fitness coach. In those circumstances, you just take the points in a tough game like BHA(a).
We have scored for fun since about Feb when we started to show some form under Conte. That form has continued this season but the displays have not but we know we can play better. The question of others is can they still pick up points when performances ain't great...Liverpool cannot, Utd and CFC couldn't but seem to be now, we all know City can and Arsenal yet to proove anything as they've had 1 tough away game and they lost it.
Some Spurs fans wetting their pants a bit about our style. Others appreciate its a marathon not a sprint and the fixture list is bonkers for the big clubs in UCL. I suspect Conte just wants us to get through to the WC well played and all to play for, so pragmatism is the key right now. That said we need to play better and we are well capable of doing so. IMO we are more likely to start to play better than start to lose games regularly. But we'll see.
Page 2 of 4