comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 39 seconds ago
Conte has achieved more in his career than Poch has. The football at the end of the Poch era is far more miserable than what we are watching currently.
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It took five years for the project to tire owed to a lack of investment and fresh faces. This one is turning sour after less than one.
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This one isn't turning sour though, its not been the best week - but we are on for one of our best ever starts (plus progressing in the CL). The football isn't pretty but get a hold of yourself ffs.
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No, you're not seeing the bigger picture. Results like today represent the results we should have had if it weren't for some good fortune in certain fixtures. In many of the games we've played this season where we've picked up three points, we've been outplayed. This isn't a bad week, it's a continuation of the kind of form we've shown all year. It's just that results are beginning to reflect that.
You can lean on the 2pts per game level we're hitting now but trust me, that will drop if we continue to play this way. Let's see at the end of the season but personally even though we're in there right now, I don't think we're getting anywhere near top four this year. Not even close. Would you want rid of Conte then?
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You were also certain we wouldn't get top 4 in January right? We have the receipts on here.
You talk about fortune or results but we've been the better team in each one of our wins in the league. It hasn't been pretty at all but in the games we have been outplayed we have dropped points (lost all bar Chelsea). The stats back this up and are absent of your own biases.
Would I want rid of Conte if we don't get top 4? Depends on circumstances really - but I don't want him here long term as he is a short term manager.
Based on their current managerial careers, who do you think the better manager is, Conte or Poch?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I'll answer both questions from the two posts...
I'm not sure whether I said we wouldn't get top four, I have no idea. We did get top four last year, granted, but let's face facts, Arsenal threw it away. It was on a plate for them.
I remember loads of games where we picked up fortunate 1-0 or 2-1 wins. The Wolves game is one for starters. they're not a good side but they dominated the ball for large spells and if they'd had a decent striker, they'd have taken something from the game.
If you don't want Conte here long term I assume you mean stick to the 2-3 seasons he usually does. The thing about that is that we're currently nowhere near it, we're worse than the back end of last year and we're already into his second year so he'd better get a wriggle on to start turning us around if he's going to win something before he leaves.
To answer your other question about who the better manager is, I'd throw it back and say 'for whom?'. The reason I say that is that I think Conte is the better manager for a club of Chelsea's profile where the component parts are all there and it's just a case of drilling them in terms of tactics and fitness. Poch is the better manager for a club like Spurs as we don't have the same budgets so we need a manager than improves individuals with great coaching ability. Someone that can polish a rough diamond. He's more suited to our profile. Neither one is better than the other. They're just suited to certain club profiles. No silverware is going to convince me that Conte is a better manager than Poch for a club like Spurs. It's for these reasons I'm not sure Chelsea will see the very best of Graham Potter. I think he's suited to a club that wants players to be coached well, rather than focus on a winning mentality. I don't want to hear another peep from lazy pundits spouting the 'serial winner' tag regarding Conte. They did the same with Jose and that was a car crash
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 1 minute ago
Poch blew it every chance we had at winning something.
He earned the rebuild he wanted IMO
The last season and CL Final were horrific under Poch but I’d say this is as bad.
We had much better players then though, especially in midfield.
Finishing 4th, 5th or 6th makes no difference really. We’re not in the CL to win it and we don’t invest the money in higher level players.
All our signings were pretty standard, easy signings. Nobody we went out and worked/ paid top dollar for/ made a statement to get.
We are in stasis as a club but it suits Levy. He doesn’t care if we win anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it that bad?
The hysterics currently are ridiculous. We are third (with bad injury problems) averaging just under 2 points a game, top of our CL group. Its just the football is boring.
Under Poch at the end it was so much work, so so so so much worse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh ridiculous that Conte is being slated after getting CL in his first season. He needs at least two more windows.
If you're going to play terrible football, the points per game have to go through the roof otherwise what's the point. Jose had a much lower ppg average than Poch, Conte's is similar but the football is terrible so what on earth are we doing? There's no improvement in results playing this way.
------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is fans are extremely fickle on this issue in particular. Unless you're Bielsa managing Leeds, if you prioritize playing attacking football at all costs fans get on your case immediately for being naïve. The narrative "I don't mind losing as long as we're entertaining and/or brave" I've found is a fan created myth that only applies in the most extreme circumstances. I'm not saying you specifically but in general.
Just my two cents as an outsider, I'd persist with Conte simply because he is by far & away the best manager within your reach right now. I suspect he probably isn't the right guy for Spurs, but you'll wanna know for certain because when you downgrade you may have regrets if the next guy is just as bad or worse results wise whether the football's entertaining or not.
The good thing (in a way) about Conte is if he's not feeling it he doesn't mess about. He'll make his position untenable by force
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 38 minutes ago
I'll answer both questions from the two posts...
I'm not sure whether I said we wouldn't get top four, I have no idea. We did get top four last year, granted, but let's face facts, Arsenal threw it away. It was on a plate for them.
I remember loads of games where we picked up fortunate 1-0 or 2-1 wins. The Wolves game is one for starters. they're not a good side but they dominated the ball for large spells and if they'd had a decent striker, they'd have taken something from the game.
If you don't want Conte here long term I assume you mean stick to the 2-3 seasons he usually does. The thing about that is that we're currently nowhere near it, we're worse than the back end of last year and we're already into his second year so he'd better get a wriggle on to start turning us around if he's going to win something before he leaves.
To answer your other question about who the better manager is, I'd throw it back and say 'for whom?'. The reason I say that is that I think Conte is the better manager for a club of Chelsea's profile where the component parts are all there and it's just a case of drilling them in terms of tactics and fitness. Poch is the better manager for a club like Spurs as we don't have the same budgets so we need a manager than improves individuals with great coaching ability. Someone that can polish a rough diamond. He's more suited to our profile. Neither one is better than the other. They're just suited to certain club profiles. No silverware is going to convince me that Conte is a better manager than Poch for a club like Spurs. It's for these reasons I'm not sure Chelsea will see the very best of Graham Potter. I think he's suited to a club that wants players to be coached well, rather than focus on a winning mentality. I don't want to hear another peep from lazy pundits spouting the 'serial winner' tag regarding Conte. They did the same with Jose and that was a car crash
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wolves game you may deem fortunate but we created more than them. 1.47 to 0.69 xG, 6 shots on target to 3. 4 key chances to 0 etc etc.
I don't think comparing us to the end of last season is appropriate. I also wasnt critical of Poch at the start of the 18/19 season when he didnt start as well as he ended 17/18 (its weird to compare early season results/performances to end of season results/performances). I think Conte has a season and a half and then our team will be burned out by him.
I don't think the "for whom?" argument works when Conte took Inter and Juventus teams from 10+ years of obscurity to complete league dominance. He has built a career on polishing diamonds so rough that they then win the league. I love Poch and what he did for Spurs but there are loads of examples of managers getting clubs overperforming but ultimately not winning anything (Gasperini Atalanta, Sarri Napoli, Spaletti Roma, Pellegrini Malaga). What Conte has done in his career is special and sets him apart.
As an aside I think as a club we are still suffering from the lack of investment at the end of the Poch era. Conte ultimately inherited a team with a lot of players that need moving on and a lot who are also regressing - with Lloris being our showpiece.
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 8 minutes ago
If you're going to play terrible football, the points per game have to go through the roof otherwise what's the point. Jose had a much lower ppg average than Poch, Conte's is similar but the football is terrible so what on earth are we doing? There's no improvement in results playing this way.
------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is fans are extremely fickle on this issue in particular. Unless you're Bielsa managing Leeds, if you prioritize playing attacking football at all costs fans get on your case immediately for being naïve. The narrative "I don't mind losing as long as we're entertaining and/or brave" I've found is a fan created myth that only applies in the most extreme circumstances. I'm not saying you specifically but in general.
Just my two cents as an outsider, I'd persist with Conte simply because he is by far & away the best manager within your reach right now. I suspect he probably isn't the right guy for Spurs, but you'll wanna know for certain because when you downgrade you may have regrets if the next guy is just as bad or worse results wise whether the football's entertaining or not.
The good thing (in a way) about Conte is if he's not feeling it he doesn't mess about. He'll make his position untenable by force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but that’s measuring managerial talent in a really basic, linear way. Pochettino is available and would no doubt jump at the chance at a return. On balance, he’s not a better manager Conte if you look at trophies alone, but he is probably a better fit for Spurs. Our profile, our structure, our budgets. Currently, with Conte, they’re misaligned.
If you look at the way the game is heading, front foot progressive football is increasingly becoming more successful than the cautious pragmatism of Conte. That’s half the reason why Jose is considered a dinosaur, and why I believe Conte won’t be far behind. 5 out of the traditional top 6 now have what you would consider to be progressive managers that uphold a style of play that champions possession, control. Only Atletico Madrid and Leicester can say they’ve been successful in recent years playing counter attacking football with no interest in game control. You could argue it worked for Conte at inter and Chelsea but he had a strong squad at Chelsea and spent the most in Italy at Inter, despite it being comparatively modest sums by premier league standards.
I just think I can see where this is going and Poch won’t be around forever. With Potter also out of the equation, if we wait too long to see this project fail, we could miss out on alternatives.
Conte deserves one full season. All this talk about replacing him is BS and kneejerk off the back of a couple of losses.
Yes the football is dire at times but we cannot keep chopping and changing after a few losses.
No one at the start of the season seriously thought we would challenge for the league. We are still in a good position and we're in October We have injuries plus a tough schedule. I'm chilled.
All this managerial in/out rubbish is a waste of time.
Its all because we lost the game today.
Had we won, there would be no such discussion.
This was a game we should have had won convincingly by HT.
Son and Kane both missed gold plated chances. Nick Pope got a couple of lucky leg stops he knew nothing about.
Sessignon had chances he's just not good enough to take.
Lloris was wrongly judged not to have been fouled. He was pushed back. One joke goal by VAR!
Give it up lads...Conte is staying, we have none better.
His squad was diminished due to injuries.
And we lost a game we should have well won.
Have to say Sessignon is a lost cause. Accuracy of his crosses is dismal.
Davies is better....and THAT is not something I ever thought I would be saying.
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 32 minutes ago
All this managerial in/out rubbish is a waste of time.
Its all because we lost the game today.
Had we won, there would be no such discussion.
This was a game we should have had won convincingly by HT.
Son and Kane both missed gold plated chances. Nick Pope got a couple of lucky leg stops he knew nothing about.
Sessignon had chances he's just not good enough to take.
Lloris was wrongly judged not to have been fouled. He was pushed back. One joke goal by VAR!
Give it up lads...Conte is staying, we have none better.
His squad was diminished due to injuries.
And we lost a game we should have well won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you off your rocker? Newcastle by far deserved that win today. We were not hard done by, nor were we particularly wasteful. They were the better side. End of story.
I do not understand how all the wrestling that goes on in penalty areas during corner kicks does not lead to penalties.
Harry Kane's header goal was scored with Trippier literally hanging around his shoulders with both arms.
Just "normal practice" by defenders these days.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 32 minutes ago
All this managerial in/out rubbish is a waste of time.
Its all because we lost the game today.
Had we won, there would be no such discussion.
This was a game we should have had won convincingly by HT.
Son and Kane both missed gold plated chances. Nick Pope got a couple of lucky leg stops he knew nothing about.
Sessignon had chances he's just not good enough to take.
Lloris was wrongly judged not to have been fouled. He was pushed back. One joke goal by VAR!
Give it up lads...Conte is staying, we have none better.
His squad was diminished due to injuries.
And we lost a game we should have well won.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you off your rocker? Newcastle by far deserved that win today. We were not hard done by, nor were we particularly wasteful. They were the better side. End of story.
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No. Spurs dominated the first half. Watch the game again!
Son muffed a gold-plated opportunity, and so did Kane. Nick Pope got a leg in the way of both.
We should have been 2-0 up by minute 30.
Then at Minute 35 they got the gift from Lloris.
And the second was a mistake by Lenglet that let their winger inside.
We dominated second half but did too little with the ball. You should look at the possession stats.
This was a loss that should not have been.
On the squad performance today:
1. Hojbjerg was greatly missed in midfield.
2. Betancur had a great game trying to control midfield, but he can't do it all by himself. We lost the midfield battle today.
3. Bissouma is not the midfielder Conte had hoped for.
What he needed was a Kevin de Bruyne, and Bissouma is never ever going to be THAT.
4. Sessignon is a liability, very poor centering and crossing. Deserved the Yellow too.
5. Son is running into too much trouble. At least he tries to go forward, but he has to pass the ball off more often.
6. Dier is getting too much stick from certain posters.
He is pretty much our constant presence in defence.
And, he's just be chosen to play for the country, so there are some that recognize his quality.
7. Romero did not play today, and it showed in their getting down the right side all the timer.
8. Even so, we had more than enough chances to win this game.
9. Conte's selection is a puzzle. Why Sanchez in a back 3 without Romero? Asking for trouble.
We lined up 3-5-2 at Kick -off. Without 30 seconds our line up was 5-3-2.(watch the tape). THAT says it all.
For "Without" read "Within"
Edin only one using his head and being objective
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 13 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 8 minutes ago
If you're going to play terrible football, the points per game have to go through the roof otherwise what's the point. Jose had a much lower ppg average than Poch, Conte's is similar but the football is terrible so what on earth are we doing? There's no improvement in results playing this way.
------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is fans are extremely fickle on this issue in particular. Unless you're Bielsa managing Leeds, if you prioritize playing attacking football at all costs fans get on your case immediately for being naïve. The narrative "I don't mind losing as long as we're entertaining and/or brave" I've found is a fan created myth that only applies in the most extreme circumstances. I'm not saying you specifically but in general.
Just my two cents as an outsider, I'd persist with Conte simply because he is by far & away the best manager within your reach right now. I suspect he probably isn't the right guy for Spurs, but you'll wanna know for certain because when you downgrade you may have regrets if the next guy is just as bad or worse results wise whether the football's entertaining or not.
The good thing (in a way) about Conte is if he's not feeling it he doesn't mess about. He'll make his position untenable by force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but that’s measuring managerial talent in a really basic, linear way. Pochettino is available and would no doubt jump at the chance at a return. On balance, he’s not a better manager Conte if you look at trophies alone, but he is probably a better fit for Spurs. Our profile, our structure, our budgets. Currently, with Conte, they’re misaligned.
If you look at the way the game is heading, front foot progressive football is increasingly becoming more successful than the cautious pragmatism of Conte. That’s half the reason why Jose is considered a dinosaur, and why I believe Conte won’t be far behind. 5 out of the traditional top 6 now have what you would consider to be progressive managers that uphold a style of play that champions possession, control. Only Atletico Madrid and Leicester can say they’ve been successful in recent years playing counter attacking football with no interest in game control. You could argue it worked for Conte at inter and Chelsea but he had a strong squad at Chelsea and spent the most in Italy at Inter, despite it being comparatively modest sums by premier league standards.
I just think I can see where this is going and Poch won’t be around forever. With Potter also out of the equation, if we wait too long to see this project fail, we could miss out on alternatives.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I take the point about Pochettino being a better fit for Spurs, although I would caution wanting him back just because it's Pochettino. Just as certain managers are better for certain clubs, certain managers are better at certain times. 16-18 Spurs was lightening in a bottle, the squad was young with small expectations & the first XI was perfectly balanced. I'd be tempted to do it myself if I was Levy, cos of the sense of unfinished business it's a natural move, but I wouldn't harbour expectations of it recapturing lost magic.
The dinosaur managers/style of play thing is very overplayed by fans, simplifies issues of a team not being particularly good at one or two of the four phases of the game (attack, defence & the transition between both). All great teams need all four phases being up to certain standards regardless of the managers stylistic preferences & any manager worth his salt will understand that. I'd argue Chelsea are a FANTASTIC example of what can happen if you stray too heavily into the "possession/control is everything" mentality. You think what you have to watch every week under Conte is boring? ... at least in a heavily counter attacking oriented style you get the attack bit, there's nothing more depressing than watching your team hog the ball & do absolutely naff all with it.
If the results were really bad and/or Conte was looking really stressed I'd see where you're coming from, and I wouldn't worry about potentially great appointments (like Potter) passing you by because football's producing an enormous number of coaches like that at the moment - they'll always be someone. Conte is by a country mile you're best chance to get that trophy & monkey off your back, if he ultimately fails no problem, you'll know for sure this team was never capable of it & start to look forward - either completely revamp the squad, or just be content with watching better football by hiring an attacking manager
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An abject gutless display brought
Page 3 of 3
posted on 23/10/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 39 seconds ago
Conte has achieved more in his career than Poch has. The football at the end of the Poch era is far more miserable than what we are watching currently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It took five years for the project to tire owed to a lack of investment and fresh faces. This one is turning sour after less than one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This one isn't turning sour though, its not been the best week - but we are on for one of our best ever starts (plus progressing in the CL). The football isn't pretty but get a hold of yourself ffs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, you're not seeing the bigger picture. Results like today represent the results we should have had if it weren't for some good fortune in certain fixtures. In many of the games we've played this season where we've picked up three points, we've been outplayed. This isn't a bad week, it's a continuation of the kind of form we've shown all year. It's just that results are beginning to reflect that.
You can lean on the 2pts per game level we're hitting now but trust me, that will drop if we continue to play this way. Let's see at the end of the season but personally even though we're in there right now, I don't think we're getting anywhere near top four this year. Not even close. Would you want rid of Conte then?
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You were also certain we wouldn't get top 4 in January right? We have the receipts on here.
You talk about fortune or results but we've been the better team in each one of our wins in the league. It hasn't been pretty at all but in the games we have been outplayed we have dropped points (lost all bar Chelsea). The stats back this up and are absent of your own biases.
Would I want rid of Conte if we don't get top 4? Depends on circumstances really - but I don't want him here long term as he is a short term manager.
posted on 23/10/22
Based on their current managerial careers, who do you think the better manager is, Conte or Poch?
posted on 23/10/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 23/10/22
I'll answer both questions from the two posts...
I'm not sure whether I said we wouldn't get top four, I have no idea. We did get top four last year, granted, but let's face facts, Arsenal threw it away. It was on a plate for them.
I remember loads of games where we picked up fortunate 1-0 or 2-1 wins. The Wolves game is one for starters. they're not a good side but they dominated the ball for large spells and if they'd had a decent striker, they'd have taken something from the game.
If you don't want Conte here long term I assume you mean stick to the 2-3 seasons he usually does. The thing about that is that we're currently nowhere near it, we're worse than the back end of last year and we're already into his second year so he'd better get a wriggle on to start turning us around if he's going to win something before he leaves.
To answer your other question about who the better manager is, I'd throw it back and say 'for whom?'. The reason I say that is that I think Conte is the better manager for a club of Chelsea's profile where the component parts are all there and it's just a case of drilling them in terms of tactics and fitness. Poch is the better manager for a club like Spurs as we don't have the same budgets so we need a manager than improves individuals with great coaching ability. Someone that can polish a rough diamond. He's more suited to our profile. Neither one is better than the other. They're just suited to certain club profiles. No silverware is going to convince me that Conte is a better manager than Poch for a club like Spurs. It's for these reasons I'm not sure Chelsea will see the very best of Graham Potter. I think he's suited to a club that wants players to be coached well, rather than focus on a winning mentality. I don't want to hear another peep from lazy pundits spouting the 'serial winner' tag regarding Conte. They did the same with Jose and that was a car crash
posted on 23/10/22
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 1 minute ago
Poch blew it every chance we had at winning something.
He earned the rebuild he wanted IMO
The last season and CL Final were horrific under Poch but I’d say this is as bad.
We had much better players then though, especially in midfield.
Finishing 4th, 5th or 6th makes no difference really. We’re not in the CL to win it and we don’t invest the money in higher level players.
All our signings were pretty standard, easy signings. Nobody we went out and worked/ paid top dollar for/ made a statement to get.
We are in stasis as a club but it suits Levy. He doesn’t care if we win anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How is it that bad?
The hysterics currently are ridiculous. We are third (with bad injury problems) averaging just under 2 points a game, top of our CL group. Its just the football is boring.
Under Poch at the end it was so much work, so so so so much worse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh ridiculous that Conte is being slated after getting CL in his first season. He needs at least two more windows.
posted on 23/10/22
If you're going to play terrible football, the points per game have to go through the roof otherwise what's the point. Jose had a much lower ppg average than Poch, Conte's is similar but the football is terrible so what on earth are we doing? There's no improvement in results playing this way.
------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is fans are extremely fickle on this issue in particular. Unless you're Bielsa managing Leeds, if you prioritize playing attacking football at all costs fans get on your case immediately for being naïve. The narrative "I don't mind losing as long as we're entertaining and/or brave" I've found is a fan created myth that only applies in the most extreme circumstances. I'm not saying you specifically but in general.
Just my two cents as an outsider, I'd persist with Conte simply because he is by far & away the best manager within your reach right now. I suspect he probably isn't the right guy for Spurs, but you'll wanna know for certain because when you downgrade you may have regrets if the next guy is just as bad or worse results wise whether the football's entertaining or not.
The good thing (in a way) about Conte is if he's not feeling it he doesn't mess about. He'll make his position untenable by force
posted on 23/10/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 38 minutes ago
I'll answer both questions from the two posts...
I'm not sure whether I said we wouldn't get top four, I have no idea. We did get top four last year, granted, but let's face facts, Arsenal threw it away. It was on a plate for them.
I remember loads of games where we picked up fortunate 1-0 or 2-1 wins. The Wolves game is one for starters. they're not a good side but they dominated the ball for large spells and if they'd had a decent striker, they'd have taken something from the game.
If you don't want Conte here long term I assume you mean stick to the 2-3 seasons he usually does. The thing about that is that we're currently nowhere near it, we're worse than the back end of last year and we're already into his second year so he'd better get a wriggle on to start turning us around if he's going to win something before he leaves.
To answer your other question about who the better manager is, I'd throw it back and say 'for whom?'. The reason I say that is that I think Conte is the better manager for a club of Chelsea's profile where the component parts are all there and it's just a case of drilling them in terms of tactics and fitness. Poch is the better manager for a club like Spurs as we don't have the same budgets so we need a manager than improves individuals with great coaching ability. Someone that can polish a rough diamond. He's more suited to our profile. Neither one is better than the other. They're just suited to certain club profiles. No silverware is going to convince me that Conte is a better manager than Poch for a club like Spurs. It's for these reasons I'm not sure Chelsea will see the very best of Graham Potter. I think he's suited to a club that wants players to be coached well, rather than focus on a winning mentality. I don't want to hear another peep from lazy pundits spouting the 'serial winner' tag regarding Conte. They did the same with Jose and that was a car crash
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Wolves game you may deem fortunate but we created more than them. 1.47 to 0.69 xG, 6 shots on target to 3. 4 key chances to 0 etc etc.
I don't think comparing us to the end of last season is appropriate. I also wasnt critical of Poch at the start of the 18/19 season when he didnt start as well as he ended 17/18 (its weird to compare early season results/performances to end of season results/performances). I think Conte has a season and a half and then our team will be burned out by him.
I don't think the "for whom?" argument works when Conte took Inter and Juventus teams from 10+ years of obscurity to complete league dominance. He has built a career on polishing diamonds so rough that they then win the league. I love Poch and what he did for Spurs but there are loads of examples of managers getting clubs overperforming but ultimately not winning anything (Gasperini Atalanta, Sarri Napoli, Spaletti Roma, Pellegrini Malaga). What Conte has done in his career is special and sets him apart.
As an aside I think as a club we are still suffering from the lack of investment at the end of the Poch era. Conte ultimately inherited a team with a lot of players that need moving on and a lot who are also regressing - with Lloris being our showpiece.
posted on 23/10/22
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 8 minutes ago
If you're going to play terrible football, the points per game have to go through the roof otherwise what's the point. Jose had a much lower ppg average than Poch, Conte's is similar but the football is terrible so what on earth are we doing? There's no improvement in results playing this way.
------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is fans are extremely fickle on this issue in particular. Unless you're Bielsa managing Leeds, if you prioritize playing attacking football at all costs fans get on your case immediately for being naïve. The narrative "I don't mind losing as long as we're entertaining and/or brave" I've found is a fan created myth that only applies in the most extreme circumstances. I'm not saying you specifically but in general.
Just my two cents as an outsider, I'd persist with Conte simply because he is by far & away the best manager within your reach right now. I suspect he probably isn't the right guy for Spurs, but you'll wanna know for certain because when you downgrade you may have regrets if the next guy is just as bad or worse results wise whether the football's entertaining or not.
The good thing (in a way) about Conte is if he's not feeling it he doesn't mess about. He'll make his position untenable by force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but that’s measuring managerial talent in a really basic, linear way. Pochettino is available and would no doubt jump at the chance at a return. On balance, he’s not a better manager Conte if you look at trophies alone, but he is probably a better fit for Spurs. Our profile, our structure, our budgets. Currently, with Conte, they’re misaligned.
If you look at the way the game is heading, front foot progressive football is increasingly becoming more successful than the cautious pragmatism of Conte. That’s half the reason why Jose is considered a dinosaur, and why I believe Conte won’t be far behind. 5 out of the traditional top 6 now have what you would consider to be progressive managers that uphold a style of play that champions possession, control. Only Atletico Madrid and Leicester can say they’ve been successful in recent years playing counter attacking football with no interest in game control. You could argue it worked for Conte at inter and Chelsea but he had a strong squad at Chelsea and spent the most in Italy at Inter, despite it being comparatively modest sums by premier league standards.
I just think I can see where this is going and Poch won’t be around forever. With Potter also out of the equation, if we wait too long to see this project fail, we could miss out on alternatives.
posted on 23/10/22
Conte deserves one full season. All this talk about replacing him is BS and kneejerk off the back of a couple of losses.
Yes the football is dire at times but we cannot keep chopping and changing after a few losses.
No one at the start of the season seriously thought we would challenge for the league. We are still in a good position and we're in October We have injuries plus a tough schedule. I'm chilled.
posted on 23/10/22
All this managerial in/out rubbish is a waste of time.
Its all because we lost the game today.
Had we won, there would be no such discussion.
This was a game we should have had won convincingly by HT.
Son and Kane both missed gold plated chances. Nick Pope got a couple of lucky leg stops he knew nothing about.
Sessignon had chances he's just not good enough to take.
Lloris was wrongly judged not to have been fouled. He was pushed back. One joke goal by VAR!
Give it up lads...Conte is staying, we have none better.
His squad was diminished due to injuries.
And we lost a game we should have well won.
posted on 24/10/22
Have to say Sessignon is a lost cause. Accuracy of his crosses is dismal.
Davies is better....and THAT is not something I ever thought I would be saying.
posted on 24/10/22
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 32 minutes ago
All this managerial in/out rubbish is a waste of time.
Its all because we lost the game today.
Had we won, there would be no such discussion.
This was a game we should have had won convincingly by HT.
Son and Kane both missed gold plated chances. Nick Pope got a couple of lucky leg stops he knew nothing about.
Sessignon had chances he's just not good enough to take.
Lloris was wrongly judged not to have been fouled. He was pushed back. One joke goal by VAR!
Give it up lads...Conte is staying, we have none better.
His squad was diminished due to injuries.
And we lost a game we should have well won.
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Are you off your rocker? Newcastle by far deserved that win today. We were not hard done by, nor were we particularly wasteful. They were the better side. End of story.
posted on 24/10/22
I do not understand how all the wrestling that goes on in penalty areas during corner kicks does not lead to penalties.
Harry Kane's header goal was scored with Trippier literally hanging around his shoulders with both arms.
Just "normal practice" by defenders these days.
posted on 24/10/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 32 minutes ago
All this managerial in/out rubbish is a waste of time.
Its all because we lost the game today.
Had we won, there would be no such discussion.
This was a game we should have had won convincingly by HT.
Son and Kane both missed gold plated chances. Nick Pope got a couple of lucky leg stops he knew nothing about.
Sessignon had chances he's just not good enough to take.
Lloris was wrongly judged not to have been fouled. He was pushed back. One joke goal by VAR!
Give it up lads...Conte is staying, we have none better.
His squad was diminished due to injuries.
And we lost a game we should have well won.
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Are you off your rocker? Newcastle by far deserved that win today. We were not hard done by, nor were we particularly wasteful. They were the better side. End of story.
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No. Spurs dominated the first half. Watch the game again!
Son muffed a gold-plated opportunity, and so did Kane. Nick Pope got a leg in the way of both.
We should have been 2-0 up by minute 30.
Then at Minute 35 they got the gift from Lloris.
And the second was a mistake by Lenglet that let their winger inside.
We dominated second half but did too little with the ball. You should look at the possession stats.
This was a loss that should not have been.
posted on 24/10/22
On the squad performance today:
1. Hojbjerg was greatly missed in midfield.
2. Betancur had a great game trying to control midfield, but he can't do it all by himself. We lost the midfield battle today.
3. Bissouma is not the midfielder Conte had hoped for.
What he needed was a Kevin de Bruyne, and Bissouma is never ever going to be THAT.
4. Sessignon is a liability, very poor centering and crossing. Deserved the Yellow too.
5. Son is running into too much trouble. At least he tries to go forward, but he has to pass the ball off more often.
6. Dier is getting too much stick from certain posters.
He is pretty much our constant presence in defence.
And, he's just be chosen to play for the country, so there are some that recognize his quality.
7. Romero did not play today, and it showed in their getting down the right side all the timer.
8. Even so, we had more than enough chances to win this game.
9. Conte's selection is a puzzle. Why Sanchez in a back 3 without Romero? Asking for trouble.
We lined up 3-5-2 at Kick -off. Without 30 seconds our line up was 5-3-2.(watch the tape). THAT says it all.
posted on 24/10/22
For "Without" read "Within"
posted on 24/10/22
Edin only one using his head and being objective
posted on 24/10/22
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 13 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Devil (U6522)
posted 8 minutes ago
If you're going to play terrible football, the points per game have to go through the roof otherwise what's the point. Jose had a much lower ppg average than Poch, Conte's is similar but the football is terrible so what on earth are we doing? There's no improvement in results playing this way.
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The thing is fans are extremely fickle on this issue in particular. Unless you're Bielsa managing Leeds, if you prioritize playing attacking football at all costs fans get on your case immediately for being naïve. The narrative "I don't mind losing as long as we're entertaining and/or brave" I've found is a fan created myth that only applies in the most extreme circumstances. I'm not saying you specifically but in general.
Just my two cents as an outsider, I'd persist with Conte simply because he is by far & away the best manager within your reach right now. I suspect he probably isn't the right guy for Spurs, but you'll wanna know for certain because when you downgrade you may have regrets if the next guy is just as bad or worse results wise whether the football's entertaining or not.
The good thing (in a way) about Conte is if he's not feeling it he doesn't mess about. He'll make his position untenable by force
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Yes but that’s measuring managerial talent in a really basic, linear way. Pochettino is available and would no doubt jump at the chance at a return. On balance, he’s not a better manager Conte if you look at trophies alone, but he is probably a better fit for Spurs. Our profile, our structure, our budgets. Currently, with Conte, they’re misaligned.
If you look at the way the game is heading, front foot progressive football is increasingly becoming more successful than the cautious pragmatism of Conte. That’s half the reason why Jose is considered a dinosaur, and why I believe Conte won’t be far behind. 5 out of the traditional top 6 now have what you would consider to be progressive managers that uphold a style of play that champions possession, control. Only Atletico Madrid and Leicester can say they’ve been successful in recent years playing counter attacking football with no interest in game control. You could argue it worked for Conte at inter and Chelsea but he had a strong squad at Chelsea and spent the most in Italy at Inter, despite it being comparatively modest sums by premier league standards.
I just think I can see where this is going and Poch won’t be around forever. With Potter also out of the equation, if we wait too long to see this project fail, we could miss out on alternatives.
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I take the point about Pochettino being a better fit for Spurs, although I would caution wanting him back just because it's Pochettino. Just as certain managers are better for certain clubs, certain managers are better at certain times. 16-18 Spurs was lightening in a bottle, the squad was young with small expectations & the first XI was perfectly balanced. I'd be tempted to do it myself if I was Levy, cos of the sense of unfinished business it's a natural move, but I wouldn't harbour expectations of it recapturing lost magic.
The dinosaur managers/style of play thing is very overplayed by fans, simplifies issues of a team not being particularly good at one or two of the four phases of the game (attack, defence & the transition between both). All great teams need all four phases being up to certain standards regardless of the managers stylistic preferences & any manager worth his salt will understand that. I'd argue Chelsea are a FANTASTIC example of what can happen if you stray too heavily into the "possession/control is everything" mentality. You think what you have to watch every week under Conte is boring? ... at least in a heavily counter attacking oriented style you get the attack bit, there's nothing more depressing than watching your team hog the ball & do absolutely naff all with it.
If the results were really bad and/or Conte was looking really stressed I'd see where you're coming from, and I wouldn't worry about potentially great appointments (like Potter) passing you by because football's producing an enormous number of coaches like that at the moment - they'll always be someone. Conte is by a country mile you're best chance to get that trophy & monkey off your back, if he ultimately fails no problem, you'll know for sure this team was never capable of it & start to look forward - either completely revamp the squad, or just be content with watching better football by hiring an attacking manager
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